The à¹ÛBronx
Member
I think Salmon Run could be enough to counter that, especially if it gets content added.
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Giant Bomb |OT31| I Think it Might Be for Show
- Thread starter Death Metalist
- Start date
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The ๖ۜBronx;245906792 said:
Salmon run is super good, but is one mode enough?
Especially when they have talked about how much they don't like how it's scheduled.
Death Metalist
Member
I've always thought of Bayonetta to be a badass and very fun character. Never really saw her as a bad image to women? I haven't listened to the Beastcast yet but I will soon. Just talking about my opinion here.
e: Interested in listening to Abby's take on her.
e: Interested in listening to Abby's take on her.
She was always badass to me as well.
Han Seoul-Oh
Banned
I'm going to miss Blue Bombin'and UPF today but I get to go to a Guns N Roses concert so it'll be worth it.
Mhmm, when it comes to Bayonetta (especially as it comes up commonly enough) I think it's important to just listen to what the women in the situation are saying? Which is to say I know women that fucking love those games/her and I know women who dislike them/her. And both of those takes are valid, and it's not great to be the dude going "well, some other women like it..." when a woman criticizes it, and also not great to be the dude going "well, these other women said it was bad, actually" when a woman praises it.
personally Bayonetta is rad
Anyway, I guess I'll hear this in a bit since I'm starting the episode now.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Eh, it's not like women all have a static image of what constitutes as a strong female design.
I view bayonetta as a a pretty strong sex positive lead but what does it mean when it's directed by men? Is her sexual agency her own or is it done due to a men's whims?
Her design being done by a female designer mitigates that somewhat for me, but hey, I'm not a women. I'm not going to try to tell them how to feel. And not all feminist follow the same thought. Just say your own perspective and hear each other out.
All this just mean that we need to have more women in the industry to tell their own stories and show their own designs. Some will be like bayonetta, others won't.
I view bayonetta as a a pretty strong sex positive lead but what does it mean when it's directed by men? Is her sexual agency her own or is it done due to a men's whims?
Her design being done by a female designer mitigates that somewhat for me, but hey, I'm not a women. I'm not going to try to tell them how to feel. And not all feminist follow the same thought. Just say your own perspective and hear each other out.
All this just mean that we need to have more women in the industry to tell their own stories and show their own designs. Some will be like bayonetta, others won't.
Death Metalist
Member
Pretty much, which is why I'm looking forward to hearing Abby's thoughts on Bayonetta. On another note, I love both games to death. Especially the second one and the soundtrack on both is amazing.
That's fair.
As a result of this conversation, I immediately paused the episode and I'm def. listening to Moon River as I finish breakfast right now.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I haven't gotten to that part yet (saving it because weekend work ;_
but is it him telling her how to feel or is it mostly just saying what he heard from other women gamers?
My understanding of mansplaining is that it's more about the former.
but is it him telling her how to feel or is it mostly just saying what he heard from other women gamers?My understanding of mansplaining is that it's more about the former.
Bayonetta was a pretty short discussion so it was fine. I don't Alex was mansplanning since Abby hasn't played any of the games and Alex said that he played both. I don't really care for the story and general attitude she has, but the gameplay is amazing so it's always been fine to me. It isn't surprising that Abby would have issue with it.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Bayonetta seems like the ultimate case of wanting to have your cake and eat it. I understand why it's polarizing. It's kind of like blaxploitation but for feminism, to me, if that makes sense. I haven't thought that analogy through an awful lot so it might not hold up, it just came to me.
Death Metalist
Member
Yeah, it's serviceable and that's about all you could say about it. I'm only there for the gameplay and soundtrack even moreso than Bayonetta herself BUT at the same time it's hard not to smile and enjoy it all when she as a character is just having a blast doing her thing.
Dangansona
Member
Yes that definitely doesn't sound like mansplaining if all she has seen are pictures of the character.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Why is it that women representation in games seems to be more of an issue than men, when the same stereotypical roles are overplayed? If it's that not as many men are bothered by it, what makes it more of an issue for women? Is it the predominance of title roles, or the stylization of women?
This isn't a "poor men, what about us" plea either, it's more wondering what the distinction between the two is and how one became more of an issue.
This isn't a "poor men, what about us" plea either, it's more wondering what the distinction between the two is and how one became more of an issue.
I really can't stand the people who's campaigning for steam curation, sorry Alex "they need to fix it, I have no idea how" is not a good argument at least tell me why it's problematic. Like seriously why would I want to go back to the time before steam opened their floodgates when indies had to campaign just to get on steam and if a random valve employee didn't think it would sell it just wouldn't get released. Just look at GoG for an example of how curation can just arbitrarily block good games.
Death Metalist
Member
The ๖ۜBronx;245908572 said:
Because we are oversaturated with men being represented in games(any media really) in many different forms and lights. That's not to say we don't have awesome women characters, it's just not enough I feel. Especially those in a starring role let's say instead of a supporting one.
Dangansona
Member
I think on PC in particular Steam being inundated with hot trash should allow competitors to take up the curation front.
For sure, steam even allows this to happen so easily with devs being free to put up steam keys for sale on other storefronts easily (and without steam traking any cut, just the storefront it ends up on will take a cut instead). For example humble store is pretty much a lot smaller and more curated storefront which is one way to fix this "problem".
Yeah, I'm absolutely fine with the floodgates being opened and trash being on the store if it means cool weird indie games getting attention too. They need to improve visibility of what you might like, not curation of what's on the store to begin with.
(I realize I don't really interact with the Steam storefront that much and mainly buy specific things I already know about, but I have found cool things through digging every now and then.)
I don't think Bayonetta is meant to be a feminist character. Or make any kind of statement about feminism, aside from some minor commentary about motherhood.
The reason she works (imo) is that she comes across as having agency and having fun. She is self aware of her antics and how they come across.
Obviously some will still be put off.
But i do think there's more to the character than the first kneejerk reaction suggests and people that are sceptic should give it a try.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
There's definitely been a recent shift toward addressing this I feel, perhaps more in movies than in games at the moment but I am enjoying the opportunity to see and play more female title roles. Honestly I feel like there's a lot of storylines that are opened up by it, and hope they're explored.
That said, are there any major roles in upcoming games starring a woman?
Thanks for the input.
Yeah for sure, I'm going to quote my comment from GB site
But I do believe Valve can still improve and add new features that add discoverability in genres you like etc and hopefully introduce new curation features that can help in other ways to add a spotlight on new games that aren't trash.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Thing is my queue is now flooded with all the anime porn games.
Just as planned.
Stop playing anime porn games and it will get better.
The solution to the floodgates being open is tools to find the good stuff.
Steam shutting out indies again helps no one really. It doesn't even help the people that are annoyed by bad games.
Obviously more games being available makes things harder for journalists but for the common consumer it's not really an issue. You are generally not shown the trash if you don't look for it.
Steam shutting out indies again helps no one really. It doesn't even help the people that are annoyed by bad games.
Obviously more games being available makes things harder for journalists but for the common consumer it's not really an issue. You are generally not shown the trash if you don't look for it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
You can't stop me!
I actually just wishlisted every game that comes by because I find the way they're invading steam endlessly amusing.
I only bought one out of curiosity's sake. Yes, curiosity....
I only bought one out of curiosity's sake. Yes, curiosity....
VeryGooster
Banned
My sister is seeing them Sunday in Hershey, PA
slippery slope
Welcome to the club
Death Metalist
Member
People still play anime porn games? I thought that was only back when Newgrounds was the shit.
Yeah, your last point is what I am mostly looking forward to. It SHOULD have happened a long time ago because if it did then we would have had many takes on women characters, as it stands right now it's more like "OK you have a chance to do right by a female character because all we've had for decades were poor excuses for a character". Then again, it's not something that's FORCED on developers which is an important distinction to make because every developer has certain aims or goals to their story and they don't have to force something in if it's not what their story is about. It's just great if a game's story had that much depth to do so.
If we're talking about recent games, Hellblade is one and from what I've played so far, it's very good. Like everything besides the gameplay is exceptional. It also does another very unique thing, which is handling mental illness in an extremely considered manner. It's scary because they immediately pull no punches with that shit and put you in the mindset of the character from the very first opening frames of the game.
The ๖ۜBronx;245909188 said:
Yeah, your last point is what I am mostly looking forward to. It SHOULD have happened a long time ago because if it did then we would have had many takes on women characters, as it stands right now it's more like "OK you have a chance to do right by a female character because all we've had for decades were poor excuses for a character". Then again, it's not something that's FORCED on developers which is an important distinction to make because every developer has certain aims or goals to their story and they don't have to force something in if it's not what their story is about. It's just great if a game's story had that much depth to do so.
If we're talking about recent games, Hellblade is one and from what I've played so far, it's very good. Like everything besides the gameplay is exceptional. It also does another very unique thing, which is handling mental illness in an extremely considered manner. It's scary because they immediately pull no punches with that shit and put you in the mindset of the character from the very first opening frames of the game.
MontyBrown
Banned
I saw them in London 6 weeks ago. One of the best gigs you'll ever see vs East coast's worst feature and GB's worst feature.
No contest m8.
Shit, I am glad I'm not into pervy anime games because this would have hurt baaaaaaad
Death Metalist
Member
Blitzrules240
Banned
Solid Beastcast.
Laughed multiple times.
Fred Schneider y'all.
Laughed multiple times.
Fred Schneider y'all.