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[VeryGooster]

After playing some Sunshine and Galaxy this past month I'm really excited for Odyssey if only to have a Mario game with that kind of movement again.
Galaxy feels so restrictive compared to Sunshine.

I actually bought Galaxy on Wii U last weekend. First time I played in nearly a decade and it was an anxiety inducing experience because I'm not great at getting my bearings running on upside-down and side planets. I've only done like three or four galaxies so far.

 

[kambaybolongo]

Why? The whole appeal of the bombcast has always been 3 or 4 dudes speaking relatively informally about shit they like. That might not always be what you like, it never has. Ben is into esports and DoTA, but he should talk about it...why? Because Ryan and Dan didn't?

Because it’s incredibly boring and every conversation sounds the same if you don’t follow Dota.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Megaman voice acting is amazing

That second clip along with Dante's "fill your dark soul with light!" are the two GOTA line deliveries in gaming.

 

[Glass Shark]

What part in particular? I think there are some parts that stand out more than others, but the themes are deeply tied to every part of the game and plenty of subtext that isn't expressly conveyed to the player and rather shown through character actions or reactions to specific events.

assume that anything I spoiler tag from here on out will be for the main story of Nier:Automata endings A-E

Spoiler

the part that really made me stop and think was deciding how to handle Pascal after the robot children kill themselves. I really wanted a third option to let him keep his memories and live (which I have since found out is actually something you can do)
but when presented with the two choices I had to decide and I chose to kill him

like when I initially started and had played about 90 minutes and got to the desert boss for the first time, everyone was suggesting to me that there was something way deeper and crazier going on than I thought there would be, but it was incredibly obvious to me at that point the crux of the story was going to be "what is consciousness" and "are the machines and the androids really different?"

like it's literally telegraphed so hard and I don't feel like anything revealed throughout the course of the game subverted those themes in the way a lot of people have said

but my biggest problem is that I was apparently supposed to care about characters who had no actual development and just did things seemingly for no reason, having major emotional and motivational swings with no apparent cause

 

[StopMakingSense]

I really hope they get to MM7 in Blue Bombing, just for their reaction to its insane ending.

 

[Catvoca]

Definitely agree with you on people building Automata (and the original Nier) up way too much with the "oh wait for it to get crazy" type of talk when really it's pretty easy to intuit a lot of what is going in those games.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Because it’s incredibly boring and every conversation sounds the same if you don’t follow Dota.

This applies to any conversation they have about anything you don't like.

I don't give two shits about DoTA but the stuff about TI and the teams was interesting enough.

 

[GRaider81]

This applies to any conversation they have about anything you don't like.

I don't give two shits about DoTA but the stuff about TI and the teams was interesting enough.

Yeah I don't give a shit about DOTA either but found the chat interesting about a game I know nothing about. Maybe went on a bit too long but It has its place as much as anything else they might talk about

 

[Quonny]

Would be cool to have a League player on the Bombcast, because wew.

 

[MadLaughter]

Don't care about Dota but it was interesting to hear about the culture around different nation playstyles, the dynamics of teams relative to other sports, and the sort've differences between League/Dota communities and the games.

 

[ST2K]

This applies to any conversation they have about anything you don't like.

It really doesn't. There are plenty of video games I don't like that they talk about (take this podcast's discussion about Sonic and Starcraft as examples) that's far more interesting and different than DOTA esports talk.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Definitely agree with you on people building Automata (and the original Nier) up way too much with the "oh wait for it to get crazy" type of talk when really it's pretty easy to intuit a lot of what is going in those games.

I wouldn't say it was overly easy to intuit a lot of what was happening, but the fact that you can and it's set up through the main narrative and side missions is what makes it great. Compare it to a David Cage game where he's trying to make amazing narrative experiences, but he pulls everything out of his butt "Remember when I showed you that it was impossible for this guy to be the murderer? Well, he's the murderer!"

Compare that to Nier where

Spoiler

2B's actual unit type is suggested through a couple of side missions but not explicitly said. I'd be interested to know what people thought they did for no reason? I'd also say that I really liked the game despite not caring too much for the characters outside of Pascal. Heck, Pascal reading Nietzsche, brushing it off as madness, then having their children commit suicide because they became the monster they taught them to fear was one of my favourite moments in gaming.

 

[Human Trashcan]

assume that anything I spoiler tag from here on out will be for the main story of Nier:Automata endings A-E

Spoiler

the part that really made me stop and think was deciding how to handle Pascal after the robot children kill themselves. I really wanted a third option to let him keep his memories and live (which I have since found out is actually something you can do)
but when presented with the two choices I had to decide and I chose to kill him

like when I initially started and had played about 90 minutes and got to the desert boss for the first time, everyone was suggesting to me that there was something way deeper and crazier going on than I thought there would be, but it was incredibly obvious to me at that point the crux of the story was going to be "what is consciousness" and "are the machines and the androids really different?"

like it's literally telegraphed so hard and I don't feel like anything revealed throughout the course of the game subverted those themes in the way a lot of people have said

but my biggest problem is that I was apparently supposed to care about characters who had no actual development and just did things seemingly for no reason, having major emotional and motivational swings with no apparent cause

Yeah I agree with all of that. It's not that I want to ding it for being predictable, but in execution I also found a lot wanting, and the way the story wrapped up was pretty unsatisfying. It got built up like it's way more than it actually is, when no, it's exactly what you think it is during playthrough A if you're paying any attention at all and are aware of things like "subtext" existing. It has its moments but it hasn't really stuck with me and I didn't have much of an emotional reaction other than relief because I hated the hacking parts so much I just wanted the game to end, already. Also the way they hid the true ending pissed me off because

Spoiler

I didn't know you were just supposed to die so I spent like half a fucking hour trying to complete the credits twice before dying really far in and it just made me feel like an idiot for wasting my time. I was legit angry with it.

 

[Hasney]

I thought the idea was that most people saw what was going to happen coming, it's not hidden. But the execution and the journey is really great.

 

[Glass Shark]

I will agree that the thing I felt most when finishing Automata is relief. I pounded through the game in about 15 hours, which I know is really fast, but I also know some people have spent 40 hours or longer and I just cannot fathom that unless you REALLY love the combat (which again I won't even attempt to comment on)

 

[Death Metalist]

I thought the idea was that most people saw what was going to happen coming, it's not hidden. But the execution and the journey is really great.

It's one of those things that could only be executed in video games and that's why it deserves to be praised. The things that the game accomplishes to do will not work in any other medium.

 

[VeryGooster]

I will agree that the thing I felt most when finishing Automata is relief. I pounded through the game in about 15 hours, which I know is really fast, but I also know some people have spent 40 hours or longer and I just cannot fathom that unless you REALLY love the combat (which again I won't even attempt to comment on)

Damn I think I have 12 hours in and I don't know how far off I am. I'm STILL on the first run.

Spoiler

The last story thing I did was fight a boss that was holding 9S after a whole big flight shooter segment.

I've taken my time with the game mostly because I'm playing like four other games.

 

[daveo42]

I thought the idea was that most people saw what was going to happen coming, it's not hidden. But the execution and the journey is really great.

This was my takeaway too. There were a few things that were a bit too obtuse here and there just for the sake of being obtuse, but the path you take to get to the end was satisfying and emotional in the right ways.

 

[Glass Shark]

It's one of those things that could only be executed in video games and that's why it deserves to be praised. The things that the game accomplishes to do will not work in any other medium.

Can you give an example? I don't feel there was anything on the main story path that couldn't have been expressed through film or writing

 

[Human Trashcan]

I will agree that the thing I felt most when finishing Automata is relief. I pounded through the game in about 15 hours, which I know is really fast, but I also know some people have spent 40 hours or longer and I just cannot fathom that unless you REALLY love the combat (which again I won't even attempt to comment on)

I spent about 30-40 hours, playing on normal, and doing a lot of sidequests. Even on normal the game is a complete cakewalk, I died once early on and that was only because I went to a place where the enemies were 20 levels higher or something and I got instagibbed. There is very little depth to the combat and encounter design despite the amount of customization you can do. It's fine.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I will agree that the thing I felt most when finishing Automata is relief. I pounded through the game in about 15 hours, which I know is really fast, but I also know some people have spent 40 hours or longer and I just cannot fathom that unless you REALLY love the combat (which again I won't even attempt to comment on)

Would it be fair to assume you didn't do many of the side-quests?

 

[robotrock]

Can you give an example? I don't feel there was anything on the main story path that couldn't have been expressed through film or writing

Every time someone brings up "Nier does something you can't achieve in any other medium", I just assume they're talking about the

Spoiler

interactive credits

 

[Glass Shark]

Would it be fair to assume you didn't do many of the side-quests?

None. And I don't think I will bother. Honestly my point of view is that if it was important enough they would have put it in the main quest

Every time someone brings up "Nier does something you can't achieve in any other medium", I just assume they're talking about the

Spoiler

interactive credits

Of course, and there are other small little details that were cool, like

Spoiler

showing you a recording of something you did previously

, which was really neat

but those aren't really the "story"

 

[nckillthegrimace]

It took me like 50 hours to do basically everything in Nier: A, so I'm looking at these low playtimes with absolutely no frame of reference for how long the game takes if you're the sort of person who gives up and mainlines through on easy.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

None. And I don't think I will bother. Honestly my point of view is that if it was important enough they would have put it in the main quest

I'm not saying you should. However, I think they'd give a lot of context to your criticism of "characters who had no actual development and just did things seemingly for no reason"

 

[Glass Shark]

It took me like 50 hours to do basically everything in Nier: A, so I'm looking at these low playtimes with absolutely no frame of reference for how long the game takes if you're the sort of person who gives up and mainlines through on easy.

I started on Easy, turned everything on Auto, and ran past as many enemies as I possibly could to see the story bits

 

[Human Trashcan]

I'm not saying you should. However, I think they'd give a lot of context to your criticism of "characters who had no actual development and just did things seemingly for no reason"

How's that? The sidequests don't develop 9S and 2B that much. There's one sidequest that foreshadows a major story twist but that's about it. The rest just embellish on themes already present in the game.

 

[brainzelda]

It took me like 50 hours to do basically everything in Nier: A, so I'm looking at these low playtimes with absolutely no frame of reference for how long the game takes if you're the sort of person who gives up and mainlines through on easy.

How about if I gave up at Route C because I did no sidequests because the combat sucks and then I was underleveled for everything and I refused to bump it down to Easy? Are you ok with that?

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

I need some Mega Man games on Switch.

 

[Glass Shark]

I also used Cheat Engine to make myself level 99 and every time I got XP after that the bar kept getting longer, breaking the bounds of the empty box

if that was intentional I really liked it

if it was a bug then I really liked it anyway

I need some Mega Man games on Switch.

Mighty Gunvolt Burst is a pretty neat distraction for only $10, it's not super deep or long but it gets the job done and the customization system is a really neat idea

 

[Ninja Scooter]

It really doesn't. There are plenty of video games I don't like that they talk about (take this podcast's discussion about Sonic and Starcraft as examples) that's far more interesting and different than DOTA esports talk.

I mean, to you? Sure. Like I said I found the DoTA stuff (at least in the context of TI) this week interesting. They will never be able to tailor a pod to suit everyone's specific interests, that's unreasonable, as is asking them to stop talking about specific things they are into just because you aren't, when that's been the format of the show since forever.

 

[TraBuch]

Now, I'm not current on Sonic canon, but you're approaching this as if these games take place on Earth and not the planet Mobius, which is supportive of intelligent animal friendship.

So you're telling me that planet Mobius uses the exact same terminology as Earth? That hedgehogs and echidnas are called hedgehogs and echidnas on a planet thousands of light years away from Earth? Something is really fishy here.

Show me the receipts.

 

[daveo42]

I have no clue how anyone could beat Automata in less than 30 hours tbh. It took me 50 to clear the main story and another 5 or so to get the platinum.

As for the medium thing

Spoiler

part of that does fall into the interactive credits at both the end of B and E, but the hacking minigame is you hacking the same system as the menu system for each character and the deletion of your game save is formatting and removing all of your android systems and menus. Most of the others like non-linear story telling and telling the same events from multiple perspectives can be replicated in other mediums, but usually not to the same effect.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

How's that? The sidequests don't develop 9S and 2B that much. There's one sidequest that foreshadows a major story twist but that's about it. The rest just embellish on themes already present in the game.

Well, I don't feel that expanding on the themes covered and world building is a bad thing to begin with? I guess it would help to know at what point did you feel characters acted out of character? Off the top of my head some of the main story beats covered in sidequests

Spoiler

were 2 quests related to 2B being 2A. There was a quest that shown that it was possible and why memories could be reset. The beta-testing quest possibly explains the zombie robots. The meaning of Jean-Paul/the opera bot is only explained through his side-quest

 

[Death Metalist]

Can you give an example? I don't feel there was anything on the main story path that couldn't have been expressed through film or writing

Well, it puts you in the role of such themes it's trying to represent that makes the entire thing resonate in a way that reading or watching don't do(from multiple viewpoints might I add). Like the things it does with the menus, how you hack, going through someone's mind(more or less).etc like it emphasis everything because you're participating in it. I don't think such themes would have had that much of an impact if you weren't in control of the event. That is without even mentioning the entirety of the batshit insanity that is route C which feels more of a sequel of sorts to the game itself rather than a whole new route.

 

[BTA]

So you're telling me that planet Mobius uses the exact same terminology as Earth? That hedgehogs and echidnas are called hedgehogs and echidnas on a planet thousands of light years away from Earth? Something is really fishy here.

Show me the receipts.

Ah, but I would argue that it is in fact not the same terminology, as none of the three species mentioned directly resemble the Earth animals they share names with.

 

[Harpuia]

How's that? The sidequests don't develop 9S and 2B that much. There's one sidequest that foreshadows a major story twist but that's about it. The rest just embellish on themes already present in the game.

Hmm, I disagree with the sentiments that the sidequests are extra fluff that didn't make it into the main story. I feel like there's a handful of sidequests that add some extra characterization to 2B and 9S. They also do their job by building out the world, along with embellishing on the themes.

They may have like, 2-3 lines per quest, max, but I still think they provide some additional character development, small as it may be. The examples that come to mind are the quests 9S has to do w/ his operator, or the 2B quest w/ the rogue Androids. Plus the small bits of second hand dialogue that come with the quests that have different outcomes, like the android whose partner went missing.

 

[Glass Shark]

also, big NieR:Automata question, spoilers for everything:

Spoiler

were there really aliens?

 

[Human Trashcan]

Well, I don't feel that expanding on the themes covered and world building is a bad thing to begin with? I guess it would help to know at what point did you feel characters acted out of character? Off the top of my head some of the main story beats covered in sidequests

Spoiler

were 2 quests related to 2B being 2A. There was a quest that shown that it was possible and why memories could be reset. The beta-testing quest possibly explains the zombie robots. The meaning of Jean-Paul/the opera bot is only explained through his side-quest

It isn't bad, and I didn't feel that way necessarily. Just that the sidequests ended up not contributing all that much to my understanding of the main characters. There's a lot of neat world-building in there but they were pretty boring to actually do for the most part.

 

[daveo42]

How's that? The sidequests don't develop 9S and 2B that much. There's one sidequest that foreshadows a major story twist but that's about it. The rest just embellish on themes already present in the game.

Most of the side quests give you perspectives on character reactions to said events. More specific information about Pascal would be nice here and there, but everything you need to know about his thoughts and feelings are covered well over the course of the main story. The rest focus more on how the playable characters react and how their perspectives change from the initial combat segment to the end of the game.

Plus, if you missed out on it, their is one event related to Anemone that covers a good deal of info about one of the characters. It could easily be missed breezing through the game.

also, big NieR:Automata question, spoilers for everything:

Spoiler

were there really aliens?

Spoiler

Yes, the aliens were really a thing. That's why the robots on Earth exist as opposed to just the androids. Emil was the one who repelled and ultimately defeated them if I remember correctly.

 

[Phatmac]

also, big NieR:Automata question, spoilers for everything:

Spoiler

were there really aliens?

Spoiler

There were. Emil cloned himself and defeated most of them. Eve and Adam killed the rest.

 

[TraBuch]

Ah, but I would argue that it is in fact not the same terminology, as none of the three species mentioned directly resemble the Earth animals they share names with.

You're awfully knowledgeable about this subject. Are you in on the conspiracy? Who's your boss?

 

[daveo42]

Spoiler

There were. Emil cloned himself and defeated most of them. Eve and Adam killed the rest.

Spoiler

they were long since dead when adam and eve were born.

 

[Glass Shark]

Ultimately I won't look back on Automata and think it was bad or anything like that, I'm glad people found some enjoyment in it, but the story just wasn't for me and left me feeling cold. But I'm glad I saw it through to the end just so I would know.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

How about if I gave up at Route C because I did no sidequests because the combat sucks and then I was underleveled for everything and I refused to bump it down to Easy? Are you ok with that?

I keep seeing that the combat sucks from people like Jeff and you. What's so bad about it? I mean, I wish it was Bayonetta instead of Bayonetta-light, but that's still better than almost every action RPG.

 

[Ashby]

I keep seeing that the combat sucks from people like Jeff and you. What's so bad about it? I mean, I wish it was Bayonetta instead of Bayonetta-light, but that's still better than almost every action RPG.

I don't get it either. Like, it wasn't God's gift to character-action games but I had fun with it through the entirety of my 50 hour playthrough.

Spoiler

Plus the hacking was fucking dope if you're a shump person

 

[Phatmac]

Spoiler

they were long since dead when adam and eve were born.

Spoiler

Right. I guess Emil killed them all?

 

[petethepanda]

Automata is a top 10 game for me (and I'm really digging the original Nier so far as well), but not everything has to be for everyone.

I do understand criticisms re: character development and such. It's the kind of story that leaves it to the audience to fill in a lot of gaps, and I do wish they had more actively conveyed a lot of the character work. It's the kind of thing that would normally rub me the wrong way, honestly, but I guess the game's themes resonated with me to the point that I was kind of subconsciously willing to 'do the work.' (I wonder if this may have been a consequence of limited time/budget; it's awesome when things ramp up in route C, but it also starts to feel pretty rushed.)

 

[tesqui]

I keep seeing that the combat sucks from people like Jeff and you. What's so bad about it? I mean, I wish it was Bayonetta instead of Bayonetta-light, but that's still better than almost every action RPG.

I really liked the combat because it wasn't that difficult. It just felt satisfying to explode some robots.

 

[BTA]

You're awfully knowledgeable about this subject. Are you in on the conspiracy? Who's your boss?

His name's Fox Box but I haven't seen him in years.