They probably could have come down harder on racism = gbgaf being creepy again
just making sure. cool.
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Giant Bomb |OT32| I've been meaning to love a boat
- Thread starter Death Metalist
- Start date
They probably could have come down harder on racism = gbgaf being creepy again
just making sure. cool.
Really guys? Discussing how a massive podcast engages on the subject of hatespeech is the problem you have? That's what's creepy?
ThanksVision
Member
He was talking about the time Ryan fucked up. I took it more as as a 'this shit does happen" and in no way a casual remark about the severity of these kinda mistakes.
Idk Vinny even said 'you know how I feel about the situation' because he is confident that his followers know where he stands and won't react extremely like they are in this thread. Vinny definitely could have said more and I think addressing the apology in the way he did was wrong, but he has condemned this kinda shit time and time again... This wasn't that big of a deal to me
Idk Vinny even said 'you know how I feel about the situation' because he is confident that his followers know where he stands and won't react extremely like they are in this thread. Vinny definitely could have said more and I think addressing the apology in the way he did was wrong, but he has condemned this kinda shit time and time again... This wasn't that big of a deal to me
Blitzrules240
Banned
I wonder what Dan's assignment was.
That's my take on it. Never has been Vinny's personality, never will be.
Quite frankly I prefer Vinny's attitude to the standard internet approach of you're either good, or you're human garbage and everything you do is trash and fuck you forever.
are you going to argue pewdiepie is not trash?
Human Trashcan
Banned
I for one look forward to the next pewdiepie segment on the beastcast a few months from now. Everybody deserves a second chance. And a third. And a fourth. And a fifth. And a sixth. And a...
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Oh for sure, his apology is filled with crocodiles tears. Vinny is free to think what he thinks though, you have to understand he's kinda gone through the same thing when it comes to a person saying a word. Maybe Vinny doesn't know or understand that PDP has had a history of it like the other duders, but to implement your own beliefs on what he should say is creepy.
No, it's the fact that people are saying 'wow vinny should have said this in this way' and criticizing him for even tackling the subject because hes response wasn't the way you liked it. Saying that they shouldn't have even talked about it, or what was it, 'Vinny shouldve said "We're sick of giving attention to hatred.."[sic]' is well...ok? You don't want them to cover a thing because they didn't respond in a specific way? Are you hearing what you're saying? He may be flawed in the way he responded, but that's his pejorative?
Right, we know Vinny. We know he's against the kind of stuff PDP stands for. So why do people want more? Just because he didn't say something a certain way? At that part it starts becoming a freaking purity test. 'IF vinny doesn't say X in Y way then he shouldn't even talk about it!!'
We know Vinny at this point. Why are you pretending you don't?
I guess I didn't have as strong an opinion on what Vinny said on the podcast. Calling it a "good apology" was bad form when history dictates this isn't just one-off issue. I think Abby and Alex were more on point in terms of calling a spade a spade. PDP is a closet racist and that occasionally leaks out. The sad thing is that his popularity and recent events seem to have insulated him and others like him from backlash and a "I'm sorry you're offended" apology is enough to make people forget he's a total shitbag.
MassiveNights
Banned
Zaph is correct here, it was handled poorly and Vinny saying it was a 'good apology' is weird and misunderstands the PDP situation. That doesn't mean they were defending PDP and no-one here is being creepy. People are just saying it's pretty tone deaf.
We know Vinny takes feedback thoughtfully and carefully, and reads the thread, so I feel like it's pretty justified to bring it up here and discuss it when it could have a positive effect on how Vinny handles stuff like this in the future.
We know Vinny takes feedback thoughtfully and carefully, and reads the thread, so I feel like it's pretty justified to bring it up here and discuss it when it could have a positive effect on how Vinny handles stuff like this in the future.
Young Liar
Member
Listened to the Beastcast and I'm also disappointed in Vinny saying PewDiePie's apology was good, especially when PDP uses that tired line of saying "sorry if he offended anyone with what he said". Vinny throwing out "shit happens" about the incident is disappointing. The n-word isn't just something that you blurt out when you get frustrated. It really isn't. I don't "accidentally" say it when I get angry. I don't think any mature person would. I don't think Vinny or Abby or Alex or anyone in Giant Bomb would let slip the word when "shit happens".
I don't think it's "armchair psychology" to see the pattern of behavior that PDP has displayed over the years to label that behavior as racist. And yes, whatever apology you can make about using the n-word should only get to be judged as "good" by people who are TO THIS VERY DAY adversely affected by racism. Let's defer to black people for that.
This very much highlights how important it is for gaming outlets to have people of color in them, and to just be more diverse in general. I respect the hell out of Vinny and the rest of the current Giant Bomb roster. I appreciate them being more willing to tackle such sensitive topics. It shows a maturity in their discourse. I loved Alex going hard on Palmer Luckey during the GOTY deliberations. Abby not being happy with the apology was good. But Vinny saying it's a good apology is a misstep, and shows how unequipped they are to deal with issues regarding race simply because they're all white and would never FULLY understand how harmful that behavior is, that a fucking apology video doesn't mean squat in the larger context. Austin is sorely missed.
I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about anything that touches race at all either. They just need to be way more mindful especially if they're not gonna have any person of color on staff anytime soon.
I don't think it's "armchair psychology" to see the pattern of behavior that PDP has displayed over the years to label that behavior as racist. And yes, whatever apology you can make about using the n-word should only get to be judged as "good" by people who are TO THIS VERY DAY adversely affected by racism. Let's defer to black people for that.
This very much highlights how important it is for gaming outlets to have people of color in them, and to just be more diverse in general. I respect the hell out of Vinny and the rest of the current Giant Bomb roster. I appreciate them being more willing to tackle such sensitive topics. It shows a maturity in their discourse. I loved Alex going hard on Palmer Luckey during the GOTY deliberations. Abby not being happy with the apology was good. But Vinny saying it's a good apology is a misstep, and shows how unequipped they are to deal with issues regarding race simply because they're all white and would never FULLY understand how harmful that behavior is, that a fucking apology video doesn't mean squat in the larger context. Austin is sorely missed.
I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about anything that touches race at all either. They just need to be way more mindful especially if they're not gonna have any person of color on staff anytime soon.
No, but I don't think just because you dislike a person, or some of their actions that you immediately have to condemn ALL their actions.
Maybe you think his apology was bullshit, other people might think his apology seemed sincere. That's OK. That doesn't mean you're in favor of his past actions or his character in general.
Not sure if the "shit happens" comment is a throwback to Ryan's slip of the tongue or the generation and culture Vinny grew up with. Depending on where you grew up and when, that word was thrown out far more often with even less accountability. The only reason there is accountability now is because of social media and ease of access to the internet.
His apology is irrelevant more than anything
We're not saying Vinny's a secret racist or should have our exact beliefs or whatever you think we're saying. This isn't about them not liking a game or messing up the details of something. This isn't a purity test of Vinny.
I see no problem with "they should have covered the incredibly popular racist better or not at all". They have a platform and there is a responsibility that comes with it when you talk about actually important things (which, to be clear, this absolutely is).
They literally covered that on the Beastcast.
Also in context it was obvious Vinny didn't mean 'shit happens' meant that what PDP did was OK, c'mon now..
The overall tone of the conversation was clearly a condemenation of PDP, even if it might not have been worded as strongly as some people would have liked.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I feel it's definitely in reference to Ryan. Bombcast mentioned Ryan as well, and Vinny was probably using that as a reference point. Again, we can't assume that Vinny knows there is a history of PDP doing shit like this. He probably knows of the incident that caused PDP to lose his Disney sponsor, but beyond that we can't assume he knows the smaller shit he's done.
thinkingemoji.jpg
Also, there are people saying he should've said X-
They covered it. Oh well. They didn't do it the way you wanted them to. Oh well, we know Vinny is against this shit.
bionicpuppy
Giant Bomb Producter/Bufu Caster
I don't think I articulated this well in the podcast. If people didn't give up on Mr. Pie after he intentionally sought out to use anti-semitism as a vehicle for humor then I have nothing left to say to those people. As for the apology, again, I didn't articulate well. I was really just trying to contrast it to the non-apology he tried to give when called for "Death to Jews." I thought that would be the end of trying to give him cover, but people continue to be shocked and my patience for folks trying to give him context or excuses is done. The amount feedback I got after raking him over the coals for why we should have zero tolerance for that gave me a good perspective for how blindly folks will follow him and it frustrates me. Bigoted, ignorant guy says more bigoted ignorant stuff. I hate that he has such a big and eager audience. I want to shake them and scream WAKE UP. I was done with him after that. I don't think I expressed well my contempt, and I'm actually really sorry if I came off like defending him. I was more shocked this one got an actual apology when he just blew off that last bit as a zany gag. I felt it was way more premeditated and vicious, but again, I don't think I expressed that well and that makes me feel like crap.
Basileus777
Member
MassiveNights
Banned
I appreciate you engaging with the feedback Vinny.
Thanks for responding Vinny.
Was it? I think you could make a better defence of Ryans situation with the "place and time thing". The gay slur in question was a playground staple well into the 90s but I really don't think theres been a time since like the 70s where people didn't know how awful the racial slur is. White guys may have thrown it around amongst themselves more often but the n-word never had *any* other meaning than what it means. The gay slur took on a life of its own as a general insult for a good while before people realised they shouldn't be saying that shit.
Thank you for coming here and saying as much; it's genuinely appreciated.
EDIT:
Yeah, to add to the post below this- your own beliefs and stance weren't in doubt; the issue was just how it was discussed.
Exterminieren
Banned
Good on you for responding.
I don't think there's any real doubt about what you think and what you stand for, man. Nobody who has any awareness of who you are is going to think of this as anything other than a slightly muddled way of putting across your opinions on the guy.
MassiveNights
Banned
I think the guys have made it pretty clear, including this week itself, that what happened with Ryan was a huge fuck-up and not just a 'shit happens' thing.
I don't think any of them across the two podcasts were trying to compare it or referencing that, short of Brad eloquently explaining that Ryan's conduct after that being exactly the way you handle something like this.
I don't think any of them across the two podcasts were trying to compare it or referencing that, short of Brad eloquently explaining that Ryan's conduct after that being exactly the way you handle something like this.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Right. Vinny may have had a flawed response this time around, but we know Vinny and where he stands. Saying he or the Beastcast shouldn't even cover something because they didn't say it the right way is well
wild_fire987
Member
Thanks for coming here and articulating your thoughts... Regardless of people's opinions on the PDP situation I think we can all agree that GB people are good people.
MassiveNights
Banned
Zaph's argument was totally legitimate.
I understand it's hard for the Beastcast to be simultaneously be a comedy podcast and also drop right into serious issues, but I think it's appropriate for them to think about how they cover stuff and if they should even cover stuff like this at all, if the discussions are going to be as tepid as this one was.
Sometimes saying nothing is better than normalising a fucked situation.
Death Metalist
Member
BreezyLimbo
Banned
If they said nothing
people would accuse them of not standing up/caring about that something. You know they would.
This is more talking about the podcast in general and not this specific instance, but: they are a group of people talking from a certain point of view with certain experiences. There are definitely topics that they are not equipped to talk about, and if those topics come up I would hope they would recognize they are not equipped to do so (and say as much) or even have a guest on to help if it really needs to be discussed.
They are under no obligation to cover everything and recognizing your privilege, lack of experience, etc. in such situations (again, not necessarily this one) is way better than just charging into to discuss it anyway.
EDIT:
Then say "we're not equipped to talk about this", briefly talk, and move on.
Thanks for the clarification Vinny.
I don't really think anyone in here necessarily thought you were defending him or his actions, but I think the idea that it the apology came late and his history of saying these sorts of things outweighs any apology he gives. I get the comparison to his previous responses (I forgot he never did apologize for the last thing he did), but when comparing good and bad shit, you're still looking at shit.
Yeah, my issue would never be with how anybody on the Beastcast felt (because I've no reason not to give any of them the benefit of the doubt and, to my knowledge, they've always been on the right side of history in the past) but just how they articulated it. A sincere thank you for the response.
MassiveNights
Banned
For me, that's better than contributing to the "bad guy says shitty thing, apologises, OK!" cycle.
I'm not trying attribute blame here or accuse them of anything. I think it's important they think about this and what the Beastcast is and what they cover.
The Beastcast is pretty much wall to wall comedy, The Bombcast plays most things straight these days. Perhaps they should be honest and admit they won't go into serious topics on the Friday show, if it's picked up on the Tuesday show. That's not perfect either, but they are better at creating content than me, so they can figure it out. Our feedback is part of that.
I felt people were starting to go after Zaph and others pretty hard and I thought it was out of line, that's my argument.
ThanksVision
Member
i wish vinny was my dad, ultimately
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Maybe they shouldn't cover this stuff. But I feel that would be sticking their head in the sand, and hey, they can learn from articulating their thoughts on this kind of stuff. Yes, they're not in their prime to discuss serious matter like they were when Austin was around to challenge what they said, but I feel they still have a place in discussing matter that involves gaming and shitheads like PDP.
Regardless of where Vinny stands, the way he engaged the apology and covered the story is how people like PDP continue to get more chances and avoid any real change. Its not Vinny's place to judge the apology, and its people like that who mean well, but if they aren't corrected, do more harm than good with their discussion.
If they don't want to do the research on a heavy topic, don't cover it.
It should be a big deal now. It always should have been. Just because people do it doesn't mean the dismissive phrase "shit happens" should ever leave someone's mouth about PDP *or* Ryans situations. It should be a really big deal when people do this shit until it stops. Ryan knew that and acted accordingly so it's a little suprising to hear that Vinny may not. PDP did not act like it was a big deal, at the time or in the apology. Just another pathetic "sorry I got caught"
I've not listened to Beastcast yet. I'm about to but that does not sound good.
Whoops, didn't see this before responding. Good to hear it, dude!
I think the reason this one got a real apology was because the last time he lost that Disney deal and his special boy status on youtube. Real consequences tend to make people "care" a little more
I'm not at the point in the podcast yet; did they even bring up his whole WSJ conspiracy nonsense? Because that should be a pretty clear sign that he didn't mean anything after the last time and is pretty willing to abuse his platform.
I know it's hard to know to research things that you don't know happened to begin with, but there are things that merit some research if you want to discuss them.
Young Liar
Member
Thank you Vinny for responding here. We know your heart is in the right place, and that your position is clear regarding racist behavior.
But yes, it does bear repeating that it's time we look past apologies from white guys who've had clear patterns of racist behavior and think about how this racist behavior affects people of color in real life. Fuck that apology. If you're gonna talk about issues regarding race, and we really should do it more, we need to put in some more effort in discussing one issue such as this past the usual cycle.
https://twitter.com/austin_walker/status/907335750492016642
https://twitter.com/itskindred/status/907289866614042625
And again, if you're finding it hard to talk about because you're all white in that one space, then maybe you gotta do something to change that.
But yes, it does bear repeating that it's time we look past apologies from white guys who've had clear patterns of racist behavior and think about how this racist behavior affects people of color in real life. Fuck that apology. If you're gonna talk about issues regarding race, and we really should do it more, we need to put in some more effort in discussing one issue such as this past the usual cycle.
https://twitter.com/austin_walker/status/907335750492016642
https://twitter.com/itskindred/status/907289866614042625
And again, if you're finding it hard to talk about because you're all white in that one space, then maybe you gotta do something to change that.
Blitzrules240
Banned
Well said Vinny. Love having the Beastcast for my work commute on Fridays. Keep being awesome, GBeast crew!
Blitzrules240
Banned
I laughed so hard at how dry his delivery was. Poorly timed postcard considering how bad Cincy is atm.
At least they're not
the Colts. My team
I laughed so hard at how dry his delivery was. Poorly timed postcard considering how bad Cincy is atm.
At least they're notthe Colts. My team
I'm sorry for both of you
MontyBrown
Banned
Bombast was very good this week after all the Destiny 2 shite. Jeff and Brad were properly interesting, it was like listening to a Bombcast from years ago.
Good shit.
Good shit.