Death Metalist
Member
some of my best friends are PC games
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Giant Bomb |OT33| LOOK AT THAT CORN!
- Thread starter Death Metalist
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irrotational
Member
I mean you have to be inherently against gambling in the first place.
Which is a fine stance to take but don't expect everyone to really share it.
I think you have to be against unregulated gambling, which is quite different. What if the game is built to detect someone who is regularly spending money, and it makes their drop rates significantly lower?
Psychologically, I'm sure there is all sorts you could do to help entice people into the system and then muck about with the drop rates to try and maximise their money spent.
Some people are just more susceptible to gambling... They're not necessarily weak, or stupid or anything like that, their brains just react more.
Id be OK with loot boxes if the drop rates for every item were published and guaranteed not to change per player, and only changed over time if the new rates were published. At least then it's on an equal footing with money gambling.
MontyBrown
Banned
Any word on if Jeff's house is ok? Just been listening to the Bombcast, depressing opener.
if there's an orc who fights with a dakimakura then I will buy this game and the season passLet me know if you meet Weeaboo
Bubble Metropolis
Member
I think that was one of their most poorly received Friday things, thank fuck. I dont think a single one of those was worth watching.
I thought the first Bring Your B-Game they did was pretty good...
Spicy movesI thought the first Bring Your B-Game they did was pretty good...
Death Metalist
Member
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I think you have to be against unregulated gambling, which is quite different. What if the game is built to detect someone who is regularly spending money, and it makes their drop rates significantly lower?
Psychologically, I'm sure there is all sorts you could do to help entice people into the system and then muck about with the drop rates to try and maximise their money spent.
Some people are just more susceptible to gambling... They're not necessarily weak, or stupid or anything like that, their brains just react more.
Id be OK with loot boxes if the drop rates for every item were published and guaranteed not to change per player, and only changed over time if the new rates were published. At least then it's on an equal footing with money gambling.
Oh for sure, as games starts adopting more gacha mechanics it is going to need some regulation.
But honestly, gambling to me is only really evil if they make it feel like a... need, an essential part of your life. Lootboxes tying to cosmetics is not a need. Tying it to make it inherently how a game is played makes it feel more like a need.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Oh for sure, as games starts adopting more gacha mechanics it is going to need some regulation.
But honestly, gambling to me is only really evil if they make it feel like a... need, an essential part of your life. Lootboxes tying to cosmetics is not a need. Tying it to make it inherently how a game is played makes it feel more like a need.
That isn't the point whether it feels like a need or not. Gambling addiction isn't a rational thing. And yeah it's absolutely a matter of regulations, it's the wild west out there, companies can do whatever they want, there's no transparency or oversight.
irrotational
Member
Oh for sure, as games starts adopting more gacha mechanics it is going to need some regulation.
But honestly, gambling to me is only really evil if they make it feel like a... need, an essential part of your life. Lootboxes tying to cosmetics is not a need. Tying it to make it inherently how a game is played makes it feel more like a need.
Yeah I agree, doing that is even worse.
I just wish people could buy the cosmetics they want, rather than having to work out the max amount they are willing to sink on loot boxes for a chance of it.
Maybe it's that obvious they didn't see the need to acknowledge it, I don't know.No, it's that they don't even acknowledge the obvious: that it's gambling that preys on people. Good twitter thread about it.
You can be disappointed in that, definitely.
For me, I distinguish between the morale argument and the pragmatic argument when it comes to monetisation. There are three facts. It is legal, it is highly successful, not implementing loot boxes makes no sense for any for profit company. This is me making this easy for myself, but the ethical conversation feels pretty meaningless to me as long as those facts don't change.
It's not even a conversation to begin with. I don't believe anyone, on a personal level, is super into companies exploiting human weakness and implementing psychological tricks to get more money out of consumers. That's something a psychopath with no empathy who worships the free market powers like some godly being would believe.
Death Metalist
Member
In the end, publishers are just trying to see how far up their own ass they could go when it comes to michael transaction of any kind before consumers draw the line.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
In the end, publishers are just trying to see how far up their own ass they could go when it comes to michael transaction of any kind before consumers draw the line.
keep mikey transaction out of this
In the end, publishers are just trying to see how far up their own ass they could go when it comes to michael transaction of any kind before consumers draw the line.
Michael Transaction is definitely a brand siren.
Hot Coldman
Banned
says a lot about Giant Bomb right now when Bring Your B-Game was handily Beast's worst feature and I'd sooner watch any of them than any recent UPF
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
That isn't the point whether it feels like a need or not. Gambling addiction isn't a rational thing. And yeah it's absolutely a matter of regulations, it's the wild west out there, companies can do whatever they want, there's no transparency or oversight.
But setting aside regulations to talk about the ethical side of things, though regulations actually should address how to ethically implement such systems, to me specifically it is the balancing act of how much you can effect the experience before the system compells you to gamble with your money. I don't really think real life gambling is as analagous, the psychology is the same but actual currency preys more on actual desperation, but the more it slides towards taking advantage of that "desperation" in the system itself is where that line needs to be drawn, which is where regulations come in.
Overwatch lootboxes, to me, does not represent that. The more we push towards making paying for lootboxes feel as if it's part of the gameplay, that's where my line is drawn.
Also it's about what you get out of being in that system. Blizzard at least have given continued devlepoment of the game, even if you might disagree with said changes like I am for certain things.
There's also like the weird black market part of the whole thing with the steam marketplace, but yeah, regulations.
says a lot about Giant Bomb right now when Bring Your B-Game was handily Beast's worst feature and I'd sooner watch any of them than any recent UPF
The recent UPF was pretty damn good tho.
Piston Hyundai
Member
says a lot about Giant Bomb right now when Bring Your B-Game was handily Beast's worst feature and I'd sooner watch any of them than any recent UPF
Hey, the most recent UPF is better than any Bring Your B-Game they've done in like four months.
no seriously though the Kirby segment was actually pretty good
Death Metalist
Member
shuuussshhhThe recent UPF was pretty damn good tho.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Eh. Ben brought a really good game but Mordor and pinball make it subpar yet again.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
i'm going to watch it for the first time in six months and if you're wrong i swear to godThe recent UPF was pretty damn good tho.
Piston Hyundai
Member
Eh. Ben brought a really good game but Mordor and pinball make it subpar yet again.
it's kind of sad that the UPF segment that happens by accident is the best thing they've done on the show in ages and then you're immediately hit with the status quo again
segment was a damn oasis
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Look if you can make piston think a UPF segment is good you already know the impossible happened.
Death Metalist
Member
I thought Jeff talking about pinball machines and the previous pinball games in the series was great. Then again, we probably want different things out of UPF.Eh. Ben brought a really good game but Mordor and pinball make it subpar yet again.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Jeff's love of pinball is something I'll never get but I don't get pinball in general, so eh.
But like old games, I don't have to listen to jeff talk about things I like to find him enjoyable.
But like old games, I don't have to listen to jeff talk about things I like to find him enjoyable.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Middle Earth: Shadow of War is such a terrible name.
At one point during this weeks bombcast, they just call the game "Lord of the Rings", which is emblematic.
NO-ONE INVOLVED IN THAT GAME GIVES A FUUUUUUUCK
besides the Nemesis stuff which really has a ton of effort and creativity behind it clearly
but it's in service of crap
Human Trashcan
Banned
Maybe it's that obvious they didn't see the need to acknowledge it, I don't know.
You can be disappointed in that, definitely.
For me, I distinguish between the morale argument and the pragmatic argument when it comes to monetisation. There are three facts. It is legal, it is highly successful, not implementing loot boxes makes no sense for any for profit company. This is me making this easy for myself, but the ethical conversation feels pretty meaningless to me as long as those facts don't change.
It's not even a conversation to begin with. I don't believe anyone, on a personal level, is super into companies exploiting human weakness and implementing psychological tricks to get more money out of consumers. That's something a psychopath with no empathy who worships the free market powers like some godly being would believe.
Wow putting Dan Ryckert on blast over here
Anyway I think the ethical conversation is the ONLY one worth having because that is the best impetus for change. I mean, I know it's naive or idealistic to think that companies will change only because of that, I'm not an idiot. But not even acknowledging it is giving up the thing that matters most. And a lot of people haven't even drawn the parallels to gambling, or they don't see the harm, or maybe they don't play mobile games and don't know just how bad it can get if consumers and critics don't put the brakes on and go "hold up". At the very least there need to be rules and regulations about it. Right now it's perfectly fine for children to be introduced to gambling for .jpgs on their phones and that's fucked up, for many reasons.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh I dunno, watching the orcs act like goofs actually kinda makes me want to try the game out.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Pinball is great, it's just pure game mechanics and physics. It's something I didn't really have an appreciation for until watching Classic Game Room, but Mark's enthusiasm for it spread to me over time.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Wow putting Dan Ryckert on blast over here
Anyway I think the ethical conversation is the ONLY one worth having because that is the best impetus for change. I mean, I know it's naive or idealistic to think that companies will change only because of that, I'm not an idiot. But not even acknowledging it is giving up the thing that matters most. And a lot of people haven't even drawn the parallels to gambling, or they don't see the harm, or maybe they don't play mobile games and don't know just how bad it can get if consumers and critics don't put the brakes on and go "hold up". At the very least there need to be rules and regulations about it. Right now it's perfectly fine for children to be introduced to gambling for .jpgs on their phones and that's fucked up, for many reasons.
Because children have never had gambling introduced to in the form of games before.
*remembers Dan's conversation about playing pogs*
*remembers my days playing pokemon trading cards & yu gi oh*
Not that I disagree with the general gist of it, I just found that comment amusingly naive. Toy companies have been exploiting children for profit for a long time now, and not only just through gambling.
In a way this is more reminiscent to TCGs.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Pinball is great, it's just pure game mechanics and physics. It's something I didn't really have an appreciation for until watching Classic Game Room, but Mark's enthusiasm for it spread to me over time.
Man I fucking like pinball a lot. I don't enjoy watching it though.
Blitzrules240
Banned
If Psychic Detective is the GBE Playdate this week.
I am excite.
I am excite.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Because children have never had gambling introduced to in the form of games before.
*remembers Dan's conversation about playing pogs*
*remembers my days playing pokemon trading cards & yu gi oh*
Not that I disagree with the general gist of it, I just found that comment amusingly naive. Toy companies have been exploiting children for profit for a long time now, and not only just through gambling.
In a way this is more reminiscent to TCGs.
Where did I say this is a new and unique phenomenon? More than one thing can be bad at any given time, believe it or not.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Mmmhmmm, and that is entirely fair, but I didn't really say that it isn't bad, and I think that really ties back to how to actually judge such systems on an ethical scale. On some level all consumerism under a capitalist system is inherently about exploitation, and as long as you're creating goods in exchange for someone's labour you are exploiting them one way or the other, it just matters if the transaction is fair on either side. I do say that it's analogous to TCGs, but I also would not want every, or any really, game to have TCG mechanics where the luck of your draws impact your gameplay highly.
The ethical question to me isn't really about exploitation for profit because that's just fucking capitalism, it's more about where do we draw the line where the game design is more about drawing out more of your money just to satisfy your entertainment needs.
Like look at all the DoA costumes. It's not gambling but it also exploits human psychology in order to gain a profit. It's about a balance, and I don't believe it's that black and white.
The ethical question to me isn't really about exploitation for profit because that's just fucking capitalism, it's more about where do we draw the line where the game design is more about drawing out more of your money just to satisfy your entertainment needs.
Like look at all the DoA costumes. It's not gambling but it also exploits human psychology in order to gain a profit. It's about a balance, and I don't believe it's that black and white.
MontyBrown
Banned
says a lot about Giant Bomb right now when Bring Your B-Game was handily Beast's worst feature and I'd sooner watch any of them than any recent UPF
Hey, I'm all for kicking UPF in the guts and stomping all over it... but Bring Your Own B Game is a good idea. They need to revisit it with a better game choice is all.
MontyBrown
Banned
Yes. And play the AMAZING BR game too.
funkystudent
Member
Xcom and Fright it shite are bad
Still better then UPF and Kingdom Heartless tho
Still better then UPF and Kingdom Heartless tho
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Stardew is kinda just slow throughout lol. I mean in the end you'll be juggling a lot of things but it is what it is. It depends on what you mean by picking up the pace.
Shouid I watch Blade Runner before 2049?
Also Stardew Valley surr starts slow. Should I start using a guide?
depends how much you value efficiency vs exploration/discovery. Most people I know play through the first year just finding and managing things by themselves. By the end of that you should have a good idea of how you want to structure your farm and things you want to pursue, so you can then use a guide to refine strategies
Hey, I'm all for kicking UPF in the guts and stomping all over it... but Bring Your Own B Game is a good idea. They need to revisit it with a better game choice is all.
And just shut up about what qualifies as a B-game for most of the episode. God that was irritating.
And just shut up about what qualifies as a B-game for most of the episode. God that was irritating.
half the fun of bring your b game was arguing with chat about what a b game is
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
And just shut up about what qualifies as a B-game for most of the episode. God that was irritating.
No what.
That was the only thing that made it not a GBeast playdate.
And it was greaaaaaaat. I've never smiled so manically at a content in my life.
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