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[patapuf]

Sometimes I think I'm listening to a completely different podcast. Unless any and all criticism is considered whining/negativity?

Yeah, when i hear people complain about the bombcast being negative i always wonder what the point of reference is.

Save a handful of exeptions they are pretty tame with their critisism. If i look at how books or movies are discussed, or how we discuss games on GAF...

Sure, sometimes they dislike a game i like (like the witcher) but it's not like the issues they have with it are hyperbolic nonsense. I don't want a podcast where everyone thinks the new shiny AAA release is the best thing since sliced bread.

edit: and i'm actually more interested when they talk about broad industry trends/issues than specific games.

 

[SPCTRE]

 

[Backfoggen]

I think discussing legitimate issues with games is interesting and can lead to great discussion but the constant whining has just become tiresome. Strangely enough its one of the reasons that I have started to enjoy the Beastcast because for the most part the hosts sound like they actually still enjoy playing games. All in all I think my time with the Bombcast is coming to a close because its gotten hard to listen to really uninteresting random conversations and complete negativity.

May I suggest some Rooster Teeth content?

 

[Fantastapotamus]

That Brad....thing is going to haunt me forever.

 

[pizzacat]

I mean if we're doing Zelda confessions I think OoT is by far the most boring mainline 3D Zelda game and it doesn't even belong in the same conversation as Majora and Wind Waker

This and the Dolphins logo in the icon is making me love ya

 

[Goldenroad]

I think Twilight Princess would be my favorite Zelda if it weren't for the intro and the whole looking for orbs segments when you enter a new area. If you took out those two parts, it would be the perfect Zelda game. I'm still looking forward to replaying it. Bought it the day it came out on Gamecube, and beat it within a week (including a 20 hour play session the day it came out), and I've never returned to it. It was one of my, if not my, favorite game that year. I can't remember what else came out, but there couldn't have been many games better.

 

[Aurongel]

Oh my god... Oh my god... Dan's weed story... I can't...

 

[killroy87]

Sad to see bad game design criticized for not being bad enough instead of criticizing the design itself. It's not a negative that Battlefront doesn't have enough unlock carrots after 15 hours in, it's bad that it has unlock system that gives you stuff 10+ hours in. Have journalists completely given up on analyzing game design? You can't just play because you like the mechanics and gunplay and want to get better at those guns? Why does there to be a new weapon you unlock for the first time only after 20 hours in? Do you think awarding carrots for grinding makes it better? And if you're enjoying the game why do you need a carrot at the end to feel good about it? Persistent, drawn-out weapon unlock system is bad video game design.

Dan says time and time again that the core gameplay is solid, and he had a lot of fun with it. To me, that covers exactly what you're talking about.

If you're going to release a $60 triple-A FPS in November, against Call of Duty and Halo, then you're going to be judged against what those competitors offer. Does that not seem fair?

If you really enjoy the gameplay enough to be satisfied enough with the offered content, then that's great! But the fact of the matter is, in terms of what customers have grown to expect from a $60 FPS in 2015, this is coming up short.

 

[killroy87]

I think discussing legitimate issues with games is interesting and can lead to great discussion but the constant whining has just become tiresome. Strangely enough its one of the reasons that I have started to enjoy the Beastcast because for the most part the hosts sound like they actually still enjoy playing games. All in all I think my time with the Bombcast is coming to a close because its gotten hard to listen to really uninteresting random conversations and complete negativity.

I only kind of agree. The Battlefront talk was incredibly well-reasoned (Dan was being about as positive as you can possibly be towards a game he gave an average score to), and the Tomb Raider talk was almost all gushing.

I can kind of see where you're coming from with Jeff, but that's just how Jeff is (and always has been). He gives incredibly insightful, meaningful criticism, but I agree that it does tend to veer towards the negative. If you were to actually scour Bombcasts, I'd bet you'd find it hard to find Jeff having truly positive, complimentary rants about games the way Brad or Dan can. I'm always excited to see Jeff's personal top 10, because it's a constant stream of "wait, you actually liked this game that much?"

Edit. sorry two posts

 

[Hot Coldman]

I will never stop saying "Resi".

 

[Fireblend]

Man, that was an incredibly good Bombcast. To be honest, it's the first one in quite a while I listen to all the way through.

Spoiler

I mean, it was almost as good as the average Beastcast!

 

[Dangansona]

Wow the bombcast's opinion on TP! I'm sorry Dan. It's definitely not "the definition of middle of the road."

 

[Myggen]

edit: Read that wrong!

 

[hamchan]

Wow the bombcast's opinion on TP! I'm sorry Dan. It's definitely not "the definition of middle of the road."

But it's bland and boring.

 

[chaobreaker]

I really like Twilight Princess so here's a message for Jeff after hearing what he had to say about the game.

Hey Jeff,

Spoiler

The Wii version of Twilight Princess has IR pointing shooting and is therefore superior to the Gamecube version.

 

[Par Score]

01:48:02 - NEWS, beginning with the Nintendo Direct (Jeff lays down the truthbombs on Twilight Princess and fanboys)

Holy fuck this was so good.

8.8 Never Forget.

 

[Traffcore]

Lol at those pictures. Great OP!

 

[Curufinwe]

The guys getting mad about British English is always a good time.

 

[fuzzyset]

Dan says time and time again that the core gameplay is solid, and he had a lot of fun with it. To me, that covers exactly what you're talking about.

If you're going to release a $60 triple-A FPS in November, against Call of Duty and Halo, then you're going to be judged against what those competitors offer. Does that not seem fair?

If you really enjoy the gameplay enough to be satisfied enough with the offered content, then that's great! But the fact of the matter is, in terms of what customers have grown to expect from a $60 FPS in 2015, this is coming up short.

There's always been vague talk about whether or not price factors into review scores. I think I remember Jeff saying that he tries to avoid thinking about price because 60$ just isn't that big a deal to him while it is to other people. The bigger issue with BF, it seems, is the lack of maps/modes. CS and Halo are my favorite shooters. They have more staying power for me than any Call of Duty or Battlefield, but they have tons of maps/modes. Either way, 3/5 on GB is a solid score and I'll check out Battlefront at some point.

 

[sgjackson]

I think I'm in the middle on Twilight Princess - I liked that game a shitload more than a 3/5 would indicate, but it had enough pacing issues that I definitely don't think it's a 5/5 or a 9.9. Even though it was a component score I think I'm on board with the 8.8.

Spoiler

Now Skyward Sword, that's a stone cold 3/5.

Jeff's assertion that Mario Maker was the best Nintendo game since Ocarina was the interesting contentious part of this podcast for me. I ended up thinking about it for a good bit and I think I agree with him, and I'm probably a lot more pro-Nintendo than he is. The best counterargument I could come up with is A Link Between Worlds, which I absolutely adored, and even that pales in comparison. Mario Maker pairs fantastic platforming with making the feeling of being a creator accessible, and experiencing that is so unique I have to give it major props.

 

[kiguel182]

Twilight Princess was the first 3D Zelda I played so that has an impact on it but I really liked it.

Altought, after having played the others I can see why it was received. I still think is a great game. Tons of cool dungeons and an awesome sidekick. It's derivative for sure but in terms of execution it does most things well. I'm with Dan on this one.

 

[blakep267]

Jeff and I are totally in the same page for Black ops 3. Everyone I talk to makes me feel like I'm living in a bizarro world. I found advanced warfare to be vastly superior to BO3 in every way( I can't speak on zombies because I don't care about it in any incarnation). Graphics, movement, single player etc. until I started visiting gaming forums etc did I realize that people hate exos. I love then

Every time I play Bo I'm just bored to tears and I regret buying it digitally

 

[newjeruse]

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take Jeff saying, "We take GOTY awards as seriously as they deserve to be taken."

GOTY-time is by far their most video production-intensive time of the year, they put out about 20 hours of podcasts, and those podcasts are exponentially more combative than anything else they do.

It seems they take them pretty seriously.

 

[Zaph]

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take Jeff saying, "We take GOTY awards as seriously as they deserve to be taken."

GOTY-time is by far their most video production-intensive time of the year, they put out about 20 hours of podcasts, and those podcasts are exponentially more combative than anything else they do.

It seems they take them pretty seriously.

goty is like Eurovision. The results don't matter, it's just an excuse to put on a show.

Spoiler

Unless you're Saints Row The Third and got FUCKING ROBBED

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Was kind of surprised to hear Jeff say that he hadn't found any non-quest related holotapes, notes, other world building stuff in Fallout 4. I've found a ton of it. Maybe some of this stuff turns into quests later but there is a whole storyline of different raider factions that involves a kidnapping that I've found from exploring different locations. There is also stuff about the Boston PD being corrupt right before the war and smuggling in military hardware. And others as well.

 

[That Stone Dude]

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take Jeff saying, "We take GOTY awards as seriously as they deserve to be taken."

GOTY-time is by far their most video production-intensive time of the year, they put out about 20 hours of podcasts, and those podcasts are exponentially more combative than anything else they do.

It seems they take them pretty seriously.

I took that to mean that the 'awards' themselves are meaningless, it's the spectacle around them that makes it fun.

I mean, myself, I could care less what they give any of the awards too but hearing them argue about it for hours on end is my favorite thing theydo all year.

 

[Curufinwe]

Game Informer sounds like a loony bin when it comes to GoTY deliberations. I can't decide which is a less deserving winner - Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age Inquisition.

 

[killroy87]

Game Informer sounds like a loony bin when it comes to GoTY deliberations. I can't decide which is a less deserving winner - Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age Inquisition.

This is just me and my own opinion, but I'd give it to Dragon Age over Shadows of Mordor.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

Is it just me, or does the Bombcast talk about Mario Maker a lot, but the Beastcast never does?

 

[renegade_dewitt]

I took that to mean that the 'awards' themselves are meaningless, it's the spectacle around them that makes it fun.

I mean, myself, I could care less what they give any of the awards too but hearing them argue about it for hours on end is my favorite thing theydo all year.

Yeah, it's just so entertaining to listen to. The banter, the passion, and the unusual video productions. Best time of the year to watch Giant Bomb IMHO.

 

[killroy87]

Yeah, it's just so entertaining to listen to. The banter, the passion, and the unusual video productions. Best time of the year to watch Giant Bomb IMHO.

Yup. Not to mention I'm all high on holiday spirit at the same time too.

 

[gogosox82]

Game Informer sounds like a loony bin when it comes to GoTY deliberations. I can't decide which is a less deserving winner - Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age Inquisition.

Definately DA: I. At least ME3's gameplay was good. I don't think the same can be said about DA: I's gameplay.

 

[antitrop]

So only Dan and Alex have played Syndicate?

Kind of a bummer. I have a feeling Jeff or Brad might really like it. And Vinny.

I was a huge fan of Riddick and The Darkness, but EA sent Syndicate out to die so hard that I wasn't even aware of its existence.
There was a short while there where I thought Starbreeze was working on The Darkness 2, until I realized that was handed off to a different dev.

Pretty sure Syndicate was Jeff's GOTY 2011, though. I remember him trumpeting that game more than almost anyone else in games media.

Going off that, I was very surprised that he didn't love Wolfenstein: The New Order.

 

[killroy87]

So only Dan and Alex have played Syndicate?

Kind of a bummer. I have a feeling Jeff or Brad might really like it. And Vinny.

Vinny for sure, maybe Brad, certainly not Jeff.

I was a huge fan of Riddick and The Darkness, but EA sent Syndicate out to die so hard that I wasn't even aware of its existence.
There was a short while there where I thought Starbreeze was working on The Darkness 2, until I realized that was handed off to a different dev.

Pretty sure Syndicate was Jeff's GOTY 2011, though. I remember him trumpeting that game more than almost anyone else in games media.

Oh, are we not talking about Assassin's Creed Syndicate?

 

[antitrop]

Oh, are we not talking about Assassin's Creed Syndicate?

Oh

Okay

Yeah

 

[pizzacat]

Is it just me, or does the Bombcast talk about Mario Maker a lot, but the Beastcast never does?

Beastcast is too filled with minion talk and Austin knowing literally everything

 

[antitrop]

This is just me and my own opinion, but I'd give it to Dragon Age over Shadows of Mordor.

So would I, but I didn't really like either of them. We went over the weirdness of Giant Bomb's fondness for Mordor last week, though.

 

[erawsd]

Sad to see bad game design criticized for not being bad enough instead of criticizing the design itself. It's not a negative that Battlefront doesn't have enough unlock carrots after 15 hours in, it's bad that it has unlock system that gives you stuff 10+ hours in. Have journalists completely given up on analyzing game design? You can't just play because you like the mechanics and gunplay and want to get better at those guns? Why does there to be a new weapon you unlock for the first time only after 20 hours in? Do you think awarding carrots for grinding makes it better? And if you're enjoying the game why do you need a carrot at the end to feel good about it? Persistent, drawn-out weapon unlock system is bad video game design.

Same goes for Brad's comments on TR. If the abilities you get for finishing tombs are 'indispensable' then they need to be in the main path of the game and not as 'optional' tombs. Again, why do you need these narrative-wise ridiculous unlocks at all? How about doing the tombs because you like the challenge, you wanna figure it out, because you like the actual activity of playing the game, because a TR game should be about tombs rather than going through stuff just so you can get XP points, upgrades or new abilities? It's like they've been conditioned and no longer bat an eye over this.

Is it bad design if people actually enjoy having these progression systems in the game?

 

[Basileus777]

I think discussing legitimate issues with games is interesting and can lead to great discussion but the constant whining has just become tiresome. Strangely enough its one of the reasons that I have started to enjoy the Beastcast because for the most part the hosts sound like they actually still enjoy playing games. All in all I think my time with the Bombcast is coming to a close because its gotten hard to listen to really uninteresting random conversations and complete negativity.

I'm the exact opposite, I find the Beastcast's timidness and unwillingness to say negative things about games to make a lot of their discussions really banal. Podcasts are interesting when there are a variety of opinions, and that includes someone willing to call a spade a spade and not apologize for flaws in games.

 

[Leafhopper]

Twilight Princess on a gameplay level, as in combat and dungeon design is fun.

I ain't defending that story though.

However, I don't doubt Jeff.

 

[killroy87]

Twilight Princess on a gameplay level, as in combat and dungeon design is fun.

I ain't defending that story though.

I don't think anyone will fall on a grenade for the story in any Zelda game, aside from possibly Majora.

 

[No_Style]

I usually don't care for GOTY discussion but Dan's use of console commands got me wondering.

I wonder how the use of console commands & other convenience mods will affect their view of Fallout 4 come GOTY time. Getting rid of encumbrance and being able to see the best content on a whim feels like they're making up for the game's annoyances. Should they not just play it as the developer intended and judge it like that?

 

[Fjordson]

I usually don't care for GOTY discussion but Dan's use of console commands got me wondering.

I wonder how the use of console commands & other convenience mods will affect their view of Fallout 4 come GOTY time. Getting rid of encumbrance and being able to see the best content on a whim feels like they're making up for the game's annoyances. Should they not just play it as the developer intended and judge it like that?

They should judge it based on their experience with the game. On PC, that includes console commands.

They straight up gave out two scores for FO 4, so the console command stuff is just yet another reason the PC version is better.

 

[daydream]

Sad to see bad game design criticized for not being bad enough instead of criticizing the design itself. It's not a negative that Battlefront doesn't have enough unlock carrots after 15 hours in, it's bad that it has unlock system that gives you stuff 10+ hours in. Have journalists completely given up on analyzing game design? You can't just play because you like the mechanics and gunplay and want to get better at those guns? Why does there to be a new weapon you unlock for the first time only after 20 hours in? Do you think awarding carrots for grinding makes it better? And if you're enjoying the game why do you need a carrot at the end to feel good about it? Persistent, drawn-out weapon unlock system is bad video game design.

Same goes for Brad's comments on TR. If the abilities you get for finishing tombs are 'indispensable' then they need to be in the main path of the game and not as 'optional' tombs. Again, why do you need these narrative-wise ridiculous unlocks at all? How about doing the tombs because you like the challenge, you wanna figure it out, because you like the actual activity of playing the game, because a TR game should be about tombs rather than going through stuff just so you can get XP points, upgrades or new abilities? It's like they've been conditioned and no longer bat an eye over this.

welcome to modern video games players

 

[Leafhopper]

I usually don't care for GOTY discussion but Dan's use of console commands got me wondering.

I wonder how the use of console commands & other convenience mods will affect their view of Fallout 4 come GOTY time. Getting rid of encumbrance and being able to see the best content on a whim feels like they're making up for the game's annoyances. Should they not just play it as the developer intended and judge it like that?

People use "Cus mods" as a justification for GOTY nominees for a lot of people with these Bethesda games half the time. Even if they never played the game normally to begin with.

 

[jaina]

I usually don't care for GOTY discussion but Dan's use of console commands got me wondering.

I wonder how the use of console commands & other convenience mods will affect their view of Fallout 4 come GOTY time. Getting rid of encumbrance and being able to see the best content on a whim feels like they're making up for the game's annoyances. Should they not just play it as the developer intended and judge it like that?

Nah, in the same way I play MGS V without 1+ hour development timers. "Disclosure" is necessary to understand the perspective, but if it improves the experience I find it completely legitimate.

welcome to modern video games players

I'll be glad if I get the full Battlefront experience in 20 hours. Don't want to grind a lot to be on the same level as friends when I rejoin them after a break.

 

[antitrop]

I usually don't care for GOTY discussion but Dan's use of console commands got me wondering.

I wonder how the use of console commands & other convenience mods will affect their view of Fallout 4 come GOTY time. Getting rid of encumbrance and being able to see the best content on a whim feels like they're making up for the game's annoyances. Should they not just play it as the developer intended and judge it like that?

Well, I think they can easily take into account the fact that they had to cheat to enjoy the game more when deciding. I cheated Witcher 3's carry limit at launch, because it was too low, imo, but I also recognize that they fixed that with patches. We'll see how it goes for Fallout 4.

Jeff played it on PS4, at least, so he knows how the game is intended to be played.

 

[TouchMyBox]

"Nintendo's best video game since Ocarina of Time"
- Jeff Gerstmann on Mario Maker

Wow.

Jeff doesn't even know what orcarina of time is at this point because he knows that if he goes back and plays it he will realize that it's not that great. There are long stretches of that game that are boredville. So any comparison involving it doesn't really mean too much.

 

[daveo42]

I think Brad's feelings on FO4 reflect my own pretty well. I've been doing what I tend to do in Fallout games and just explore, but the world feels so empty up north. Maybe it is time to finally make my way to Diamond City.

 

[No_Style]

They should judge it based on their experience with the game. On PC, that includes console commands.

They straight up gave out two scores for FO 4, so the console command stuff is just yet another reason the PC version is better.

They gave the PC version a different score because it didn't have performance issues.

Nah, in the same way I play MGS V without 1+ hour development timers. "Disclosure" is necessary to understand the perspective, but if it improves the experience I find it completely legitimate.

It's perfectly fine to make a game enjoyable. No arguments from me on that front. However, it's "unfair" to see them mod/cheat in one game to make more enjoyable while other moddable titles may not be given that chance.

What if they made MGSV's post launch FOB GMP changes a point of criticism and dock it "points" because a majority of them didn't mod the game to rid themselves of those annoyances?

Well, I think they can easily take into account the fact that they had to cheat to enjoy the game more when deciding.

I agree. I'm sure they'll acknowledge and disclose it all. I just found it weird to hear them go down this path this year. Jeff made mention of checking out games with Cheat Engine or running mods after the fact but not when he was taking a serious run through a game.