Baconsaurus Rex
Member
Where do you put your hands when making out? Head, back, ass? And goddamn, I need to improve my kissing. Next time I'll make a move first, no need to be shy.
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Girl/Dating Age Part 2: A combined effort to give advice for those in need
- Thread starter -PXG-
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Sanky Panky
Banned
Start with one hand in the face, and go from there.
HappyBivouac
Member
see attractive girl at bus stop or on the bus, seems to be making occasional glances in your direction,not necessarily outright indicating any sort of interest, but enough to go on. no obvious/readily available easy excuse to start a conversation.
what do?
just interested to see how different people respond.
what do?
just interested to see how different people respond.
SpectreFire
Member
Hope a nearby hobo does something outrageous so you can use it as a conversation starter?
Honestly I don't know, I live in a city where that sort of stuff practically never happens.
ConradCervantes
Banned
I always start by cupping the face, then moving slowly down the girl's sides to the small of her back. If we're both into it enough I'll grab myself some ass.
If we're lying down, I start with the face once again, then down to the neck, then lightly brush against the breasts to gauge her interest in going any further. If she's receptive, I massage them over the shirt then move my hand beneath the shirt.
JumpJeff84
Member
2011 was crazy, girl wise. Broke 8 hearts, and had my heart broken once. It sucked, but not as much as making girls cry. How do lifelong lotharios do it?
News years resolution: Don't go around breakin' young girls' hearts.
What about the rest of y'all? Girl wise, what have you learned in 2011 that's gonna send you into 2012 with new swagger?
News years resolution: Don't go around breakin' young girls' hearts.
What about the rest of y'all? Girl wise, what have you learned in 2011 that's gonna send you into 2012 with new swagger?
HappyBivouac
Member
Similar scenario for me.
Don't let one girl fuck with your head so bad that you're stuck on her, resist it because you know shit's bad for you, hook up with other girls, then break their hearts because you can't feel into it all because of this one demon girl from hell.
That's what I'm going into 2012 with.
JumpJeff84
Member
Truth.
AdventureRacing
Member
Well i'm probably about to break up with my GF of 4 years. So i guess 2012 might be a year of getting back out there for me.
JumpJeff84
Member
Rough stuff. Best of luck.
Atramental
Banned
Before this thread gets shut down I want to say that I've learned a lot from it and I hope to learn more in the next thread.
Much thanks to the people who give solid advice on a regular basis.
Much thanks to the people who give solid advice on a regular basis.
JumpJeff84
Member
I've been away for awhile...how have things been goin' for you, ladywise?
Lone_Prodigy
Member
"Man that bus is late isn't it?"
Yeah absolutely. I think this thread has helped a lot of people, and there's never short supply of girl problems
Eaten By A Grue
Member
God I feel like I need to vent, but I feel like I cannot tell anyone irl so I might as well tell the internets.
I posted how a few months back how a girl at the office joined the project I am on. After a few weeks of working with her, I started to develop an interest in her so I worked up the courage to ask her to lunch in person and not over office IM (thanks to GAF), she told me she eats with co-workers, but I can join her. So I ate with her and her two co-workers. I found out over that lunch she has a boyfriend who she has been seeing for a few years and she lives with him and two other roommates in an apartment. I was crushed.
Fast forward about a year, a few lunches later, co-worker happy hours, etc. I thought I could put all my feelings aside her months ago when I found she has a boyfriend, but my feelings for her are stronger than ever. You may as well bail out now because I am going to get sappy. I am 30 now and at this point in my life I do not think I am going to meet anyone ever again in my life like her. To me she has the greatest personality, she is on the bit dorky side, which I love about her. We both have sarcastic/witty personalities and love to throw insults back and forth at each other. We share exactly the same interests etc., etc. The way she laughs and her smile honestly kill me on the inside and makes my day at the same time. She is probably no super model to other people, but she is adorably cute to me. The way she dresses, her mannerisms, etc. I often hope each day as I go into work that I will encounter her during the day just so I can talk to here, even if the conversation lasts for a minute or two in the hallway. I feel like I am on top of the world when we talk to each other. As of the new year though it feels like a yo-yo where she is into me one day and then there are days I feel like I am the one initiating everything, even coming on too strong. By that I mean trying to forcing conversations, etc.
But going on with my life like this is crushing me. I cannot stop thinking about her, even when I am not at work. Sometimes I even go in to work telling myself that today is the day I am going to give up on her and just move on. Then something happens and I am back in contact with her and all of that just goes to hell. Just as an example I was even at fucking lunch today and my co-worker friends were telling me that they think I am going to get married to her. I did not even bring up her up during lunch and they have no idea about my feelings for her. They told me other co-workers thought the same because of the way we act towards each other. I do not think they realize she has a boyfriend. It made me feel horrible during lunch. I have to admit deep down I actually want it to be true, but I know in reality it is never going to happen. This is pretty much why I am posting all of this online now, I feel like I have snapped.
I am almost at my wits end, I almost feel like taking her aside at the end of the work day and letting it all out. I want to tell her from the first day I saw her to the present that I have always liked her and what are the chances I will meet another person like her in this world. All of this could jeopardize my career, she has a boyfriend, so all of it could be in vain. Well that is it internets, I have no fucking idea what to do, but I just wanted to get this all off my chest in hopes that I feel better.
I posted how a few months back how a girl at the office joined the project I am on. After a few weeks of working with her, I started to develop an interest in her so I worked up the courage to ask her to lunch in person and not over office IM (thanks to GAF), she told me she eats with co-workers, but I can join her. So I ate with her and her two co-workers. I found out over that lunch she has a boyfriend who she has been seeing for a few years and she lives with him and two other roommates in an apartment. I was crushed.
Fast forward about a year, a few lunches later, co-worker happy hours, etc. I thought I could put all my feelings aside her months ago when I found she has a boyfriend, but my feelings for her are stronger than ever. You may as well bail out now because I am going to get sappy. I am 30 now and at this point in my life I do not think I am going to meet anyone ever again in my life like her. To me she has the greatest personality, she is on the bit dorky side, which I love about her. We both have sarcastic/witty personalities and love to throw insults back and forth at each other. We share exactly the same interests etc., etc. The way she laughs and her smile honestly kill me on the inside and makes my day at the same time. She is probably no super model to other people, but she is adorably cute to me. The way she dresses, her mannerisms, etc. I often hope each day as I go into work that I will encounter her during the day just so I can talk to here, even if the conversation lasts for a minute or two in the hallway. I feel like I am on top of the world when we talk to each other. As of the new year though it feels like a yo-yo where she is into me one day and then there are days I feel like I am the one initiating everything, even coming on too strong. By that I mean trying to forcing conversations, etc.
But going on with my life like this is crushing me. I cannot stop thinking about her, even when I am not at work. Sometimes I even go in to work telling myself that today is the day I am going to give up on her and just move on. Then something happens and I am back in contact with her and all of that just goes to hell. Just as an example I was even at fucking lunch today and my co-worker friends were telling me that they think I am going to get married to her. I did not even bring up her up during lunch and they have no idea about my feelings for her. They told me other co-workers thought the same because of the way we act towards each other. I do not think they realize she has a boyfriend. It made me feel horrible during lunch. I have to admit deep down I actually want it to be true, but I know in reality it is never going to happen. This is pretty much why I am posting all of this online now, I feel like I have snapped.
I am almost at my wits end, I almost feel like taking her aside at the end of the work day and letting it all out. I want to tell her from the first day I saw her to the present that I have always liked her and what are the chances I will meet another person like her in this world. All of this could jeopardize my career, she has a boyfriend, so all of it could be in vain. Well that is it internets, I have no fucking idea what to do, but I just wanted to get this all off my chest in hopes that I feel better.
Atramental
Banned
Well right now I'm just trying to work on my anxiety issues... but I think things are starting to get better. I'm a bit more relaxed when I talk to girls. Plus, I'm able to maintain eye contact for longer periods of time and I can keep a conversation going for a while.
Also, I'm trying to incorporate these two rules into my life 1) Who cares what others think of me and 2) I have to do what is right for me.
You're in the friendzone with a very taken girl. If you tell her you like her, then her interest will probably plummet. If you want to show interest, do it physically; touch her hand, brush her shoulder, etc. She'll immediately stop thinking of you as a talking robot at least.
Frankly this girl's a lot cause though; I'd take lessons from what you're learning here and apply it to the next girl. Start off by being recognized as a man and someone that she could date instead of a brother or child. Live your own life and stop fawning over someone. There's nothing a woman find less attractive than being catered to; it implies that the man is less good than she is.
Sanky Panky
Banned
"Love" is born out of contact, and it looks like you are not exposed to much else out there. Do you have a good circle of friends? do you go out a lot? when was the last time you had a date?
I used to feel like that for my best friend. In the limited contact we had, she seemed like the perfect girl for me. We understood each other, could talk about ANYTHING, liked the same things, and I was really attracted to her. We talked every day, and saw each other very frequently. Guess what...
At that point, she was the THIRD girl who I felt this way about. Moral of the story is that there are great news. There are DOZENS of girls whom you can have a connection with, and as much as we want to believe in the fairy-tale soulmate sappy story of forbidden love, it doesn't happen like that in the real world. You have rose-colored tinted glasses on because of your limited interaction with her. The girl you are meant to be with, will not only be perfect for you, but things will happen so naturally that you will wonder why you both love each other so much so fast. I found a girl that has those same characteristics that I liked (even better ones) and she loves me back. It all happened naturally.
If you are hellbent on pursuing this, ask her how her relationship with her boyfriend is. Let her be the one to reflect on her relationship. If she's unhappy and breaks it off without your influence, then you have a shot. Don't confess your love, as you will be the creeper that's after someone else's gf.
HappyBivouac
Member
Well, posts like this sure do grate on me, if you really are looking for some change. Do you just enjoy focusing on the negative? Stop doing that.
I guess that's what it comes down to. There's some sort of scale I keep balancing where it tilts one way and I crave change more than anything, but then it can so easily swing the other way and I become content and complacent not wishing to bother myself with the hassles that have been experienced by other people in this thread. Reading post after post of people going through various girlfriends and only ending up in heartbreak at the end of it doesn't help.
I've never had a broken heart and I've never broken a heart (to my knowledge). Having one of those wouldn't do well for my depression, or my health.
And well, I'd like to focus on the positives. But what would those be in this case?
Eaten By A Grue
Member
Thanks for the advice. Deep down I know what you are saying is something I have to do and have been thinking for awhile now. But there is also this little voice that is telling me not to give up and I am never going to find someone like her for the rest of my life if I do not pursue her. I think next week I am going to put even more of an effort to try and avoid her. As I mentioned I have failed before, but I know it is what I need to do. I think I am going to avoid the physical contact you mentioned though, not that I think it would happen, but I am paranoid that it could be construed as sexual harassment or something like that.
You may have hit the nail on the head. I moved four years ago for my job so I live alone. I still have a close circle of friends and I see them almost every weekend, but I do not go out nor date as much as I used to. I know I should be putting in more of an effort, but working long hours during the week puts a damper on things.
I know life is not like the movies. But I do not want to be alone the rest of my life and I have never met someone like her before in my life. I feel like if I do not pursue her I will regret it for the rest of my life.
I am not a crazy, at least I hope not! So I would never confess love towards her. I think what I typed out above is what I wish I could do, but I would never do that in reality. I try to avoid conversations with her about her boyfriend because then I feel like I will be that creeper.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
This is the wrong attitude to take. Have you met every woman on the planet? You may meet the girl of your dreams tomorrow. You may meet her on a trip to the store. But you won't meet her if you spend your non-working time moping about this girl.
If you have little time outside of working, ask yourself if you have the right job. Working is important, but what's the point of making money if you don't have time to spend it? If you're stressed out, take a week off. Hop in your car and just drive. Book a trip to Vegas.
Basically, you need to distance yourself from this girl. Keep your interactions professional. Be polite but avoid talking about non-work issues. Don't think about topics to discuss with her unless they're work-related.
Not to pick on you but I've been having this thought ever since I started reading this thread; why do guys think that the girl they are so enamored over is a one of a kind girl as in they will never meet a girl like her ever again?
I ask because that thought process is poison and I say this as someone who's been down that road. You have strong feelings for her because she's your type and she just so happens to be accessible to you (you guys work together). She then becomes more appealing because she is unlike any other girl in your life but that's only because you haven't been looking. You can describe to me all her mannerisms and quirks that makes her unique but there are other girls just like her. You're putting so much pressure on yourself and dampening your own motivation when you can be using that energy to be looking for that girl who's right for you. There is nothing for you to be regretting about this girl because she is taken. That is beyond your control. No one deserves to beat themselves over someone who's unavailable.
EDIT: Beaten, I type too slow.
EDIT EDIT:
I also want to add my two cents in regards to moving this/next thread into the Community section. I practically post exclusively there but I find it that this thread is more productive in Off Topic. After all, wasn't this thread made in response to all the girl-age threads flooding OT at one point?
The Quiet Man
Member
I am happily married to my wife after 7 years of being together. That's a nice, positive outcome, right?
Ninja_Hawk
Member
Eh, there are so many, if it was someone at a bus-stop around my school, i'd just ask a ditz question about the busline or about the location of something around my school. If she was wearing something nice i'd compliment her on the way shes dressed. Those are what i've done before.
Eaten By A Grue
Member
I hear you guys. Honestly the way I feel now, I am 30 now, friends/family/co-workers are getting married and having kids at this point and I feel like I am being left behind in life. I feel like I am in a rut. Get up, spend 8+ hours at work for 5 days a week, go to bed, see same friends over the weekend. Wash rinse, and repeat. Like right now it is a Friday night and I spent 12 hours at work and too tired to do anything. Seeing and talking to this person makes me happy and makes me forget this depressing rut I am in. I have never met the right person up until this point and I have not had feelings like this for so long for a girl before like this person at work. I thought a year ago any feelings for her I had would fade over time, but they are worse now. I know there are plenty of fish in the sea and there are probably others similar to her, but it is depressing after all this time finding someone like this person and it is something I can never have. I have worked so hard in my life to get where I am at now and if one thing I have learned it is never to give up on things in life. But I feel like that no matter how hard I work for this girl, she will never be obtainable.Not to pick on you but I've been having this thought ever since I started reading this thread; why do guys think that the girl they are so enamored over is a one of a kind girl as in they will never meet a girl like her ever again?
I ask because that thought process is poison and I say this as someone who's been down that road. You have strong feelings for her because she's your type and she just so happens to be accessible to you (you guys work together). She then becomes more appealing because she is unlike any other girl in your life but that's only because you haven't been looking. You can describe to me all her mannerisms and quirks that makes her unique but there are other girls just like her. You're putting so much pressure on yourself and dampening your own motivation when you can be using that energy to be looking for that girl who's right for you. There is nothing for you to be regretting about this girl because she is taken. That is beyond your control. No one deserves to beat themselves over someone who's unavailable.
EDIT: Beaten, I type too slow.
EDIT EDIT:
I also want to add my two cents in regards to moving this/next thread into the Community section. I practically post exclusively there but I find it that this thread is more productive in Off Topic. After all, wasn't this thread made in response to all the girl-age threads flooding OT at one point?
If anything it feels good typing this out, it is something I could never express irl.
Count Dookkake
Member
Next version of thread should perhaps open with a few inspirational success stories from this one, to rouse the spirits of our "little brothers."
I'd wish you would stop whipping the shit of yourself. It's like there's this strange detachment in your posts, like you enjoy failing.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
30 is not too old. If you were a girl, then yeah you might start to worry (biologically speaking), but people are getting married later and later in life nowadays so you're not necessarily "behind".
Like I said before, throw a wrench in your routine. Working too hard? Take some time off. It's great that you've worked hard to get where you are, but when are you going to start rewarding yourself for that hard work? Don't say retirement; while you should always plan for the future, you can't sacrifice everything.
Unfortunately, relationships are one thing where all the hard work in the world may not pay off. But there's nothing wrong with failure. Have you ever applied for a job you didn't get? Work hard during school and not get a scholarship? Don't beat yourself up if you don't succeed. Take it as a learning experience and move on. Apply for another job. Study for another scholarship. Meet another girl.
Subtervotion
Member
Great idea. Do we have a title planned out yet?
HighAmperage
Member
Grue, going through almost the exact same situation as you (sans her having a serious boyfriend), but I'm 41 (with the added torture of pretty much knowing that if we didn't work in the same dept, things would probably happen--this is not a typical one-sided friend zone thing). All of the "move on" perspectives here are of course, the right advice, but when you're in the middle of it and aren't surrounded by opportunities to meet all the "great girls" that are allegedly everywhere (and trust me, at 41 it gets murkier), it can be very very tough to see/think clearly when you've really fallen for someone. I'm slowly crawling out of it, mostly by reminding myself as much as possible that no one could ever live up to the idealized version we create in our heads. All I can say is, it may take a long time, but you will eventually be able to make some kind of peace with it, even if a part of you will be forever broken by it. The only choice is to find a way to get past it, and love yourself first above all others.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
True dat bro.
I'm 29 soon and I want to "marry/get together" for life with the right person by 30-31 time to settle the fuck down, I also want a kid and then a few more (2 more) later on.
Well I was sort of thinking of positives that I could say about myself. But I'm happy to hear that there a still some happy outcomes that are still possible.
Perhaps it's a sick way of trying to find comfort in the excuse of how badly things have gone and that I'd rather be right about that than be happy about something I cannot even think of.
And there you are wrong. And the evidence is right in front of your nose. If there's one woman like her...why not another one. Or two...or three? You 'just' have to come across one who's available... I know it is an extremely tough situation to be (been there) in and you REALLY want to be with her. But if you can't, there's only one thing you can do. Suck it up and look elsewhere.
I think you have to not talk to her for a while. It's hard to go against your instincts and get over her, but perhaps it shouldn't have to be up to you alone. You could tell her of your situation and how hard it is for you. Will probably be a very difficult conversation...but she can only take it as a compliment and hopefully she'll help you out by not talking to you.
About the thirty part: my parents got divorced when they were 45 (bad news Combine) and are both in a good and healthy relationship right now (good news Combine).With different partners of course. So it's entirely possible. Best of luck dude!
Still searching for my second date idea. That aside I'm getting more and more confident that this girl is well worth my time and I definitely seem to stand a good chance here. Chatted a bit through texts and Facebook yesterday and this morning and I'm getting a good vibe. I really want to bust out a time, place and a date idea today though. Hell, I actually want to do something tonight, but it's a bit late for that one.
Considering some people are discussing the usefulness of this thread and their personal growth over the years. I'd like to say that I've definitely grown quite a bit these past two years. I don't know to which extent this thread has contributed to that, seeing as I only visit it every now and then when I'm actually in the process of dating, but it's a great place to vent, get perspective, tips and ideas. Most of all though, I've learned a lot by fucking up. When you basically start from scratch when it comes to dating there is a lot of shit that you have to learn, and sadly you have to learn that stuff by fucking up... a lot. And needless to say I still screw up, but I've gotten a lot better and that's what counts.
Considering some people are discussing the usefulness of this thread and their personal growth over the years. I'd like to say that I've definitely grown quite a bit these past two years. I don't know to which extent this thread has contributed to that, seeing as I only visit it every now and then when I'm actually in the process of dating, but it's a great place to vent, get perspective, tips and ideas. Most of all though, I've learned a lot by fucking up. When you basically start from scratch when it comes to dating there is a lot of shit that you have to learn, and sadly you have to learn that stuff by fucking up... a lot. And needless to say I still screw up, but I've gotten a lot better and that's what counts.
Hypereides
Member
Well whadoya know... after nearly a month of ignoring this girl, yesterday, suddenly texts me if I was going out by any chance (Note: I deleted her number and all her texts, stayed away from Facebook, I recognised the number)... I was almost tempted to respond with 'who is this?'.
So I text her back that, yes , in fact, I was going out to this particular 'part of the city'. Then suddenly she starts getting bitchy because I wasnt specific enough, and flakes out texting that the people she is with werent in the mood anyway.
I leave her a text with my specific whereabouts. She doesnt respond.
2 hours later sitting and chit chatting with a lady friend, and some whiskey down the throat later I ask my friend what she would do? Bare in mind that my better judgement is weakend... god I shouldnt have listened.
We put together a second invitational ("its been a long time, bla bla bla, would like to see you again bla bla bla, sitting here with a friend you should come by and say hi bla-bla") text her and she flakes again saying shes tempted but, would rather be in bed.
I make a last text saying 'Its her choice (in a kind of whatever-ish way), youve been invited'.
Then she gets extra bitchy and cocky at the same time.
Back to the ignore list you goooo!
EDIT: I gave her rings away to my friend that night.
So I text her back that, yes , in fact, I was going out to this particular 'part of the city'. Then suddenly she starts getting bitchy because I wasnt specific enough, and flakes out texting that the people she is with werent in the mood anyway.
I leave her a text with my specific whereabouts. She doesnt respond.
2 hours later sitting and chit chatting with a lady friend, and some whiskey down the throat later I ask my friend what she would do? Bare in mind that my better judgement is weakend... god I shouldnt have listened.
We put together a second invitational ("its been a long time, bla bla bla, would like to see you again bla bla bla, sitting here with a friend you should come by and say hi bla-bla") text her and she flakes again saying shes tempted but, would rather be in bed.
I make a last text saying 'Its her choice (in a kind of whatever-ish way), youve been invited'.
Then she gets extra bitchy and cocky at the same time.
Back to the ignore list you goooo!
EDIT: I gave her rings away to my friend that night.
It's never to late. My GF went to a wedding today. The bride was 92, and the groom 78. I know this is an extremely isolated case, but they found eachother because they both wanted a companion and refused to let their age be neither a barrier or an excuse. Never give up! Believe!
TurboLibre
Member
Might be my last update in this thread, but things are still looking up at the moment. I ran into the girl a couple of times before she went to her sisters wedding and she was already making plans for us when she gets back. I started to distance myself a bit after all the rescheduling, but she wasn't having it and got more aggressive with letting me know she's into me. So hopefully she'll follow through and we'll actually go out sometime this week. Still in a "wait and see" mentality with all this, but after the way she was acting last week I have a pretty good feeling things will work out.
Before it closes I would like to thank everyone in this thread. I appreciate all the advice, discussions, and varying perspectives you guys brought to the table. There have been a lot of changes over this past year and now have a large group of friends that can offer me more personalized advice, so I don't think I'll be in OT3 all that much. At least, I hope I'm not, I think I was in this thread too much as it is. Either way thanks for all the conversation, you guys have been great.
Before it closes I would like to thank everyone in this thread. I appreciate all the advice, discussions, and varying perspectives you guys brought to the table. There have been a lot of changes over this past year and now have a large group of friends that can offer me more personalized advice, so I don't think I'll be in OT3 all that much. At least, I hope I'm not, I think I was in this thread too much as it is. Either way thanks for all the conversation, you guys have been great.
Wasn't too bad, although nothing of course happened.Going out to a decent bar tonight.
Should be good!
I'm going simply to have fun with my mate, but if anything were to happen so be it.
My mate managed to kiss a girl for the first time though.
Anyway went out again tonight, just danced stupidly in front of others, but I didn't really care.
RelentlessRolento
Member
So my GF is a virgin (as am I). We haven't gotten passed the oral stage yet, no sex. I finger her quite a bit (especially during winter break). The last few times she's bled. I think I am bringing down the wall, so to speak? It doesn't hurt her while were doing it, and it doesn't bleed while we are doing it. She'll find blood in her panties later.
I know it's lolworthy, but I could use some advice. A tad worried.
I know it's lolworthy, but I could use some advice. A tad worried.
It's good to see you're doing well, and your positive attitude will lead to success. You should still stick around in Girl-Age to give advice or talk through situations you encounter. There's always room to improve.
Very much so. The journey's only beginning, tk. I'm glad to see things are looking up for you!
I failed hard last night.
I was in a club, sitting next to a really nice French girl and she was looking at me but my mouth wouldn't open, what the fuck is wrong with me?
The thing that was mainly preventing me was that she was sitting next to this other guy, and she kept on touching him but only in a friendly way. I think he might have been gay, but I wasn't sure. I didn't even find out.
No confidence, man. After my last big relationship
I was in a club, sitting next to a really nice French girl and she was looking at me but my mouth wouldn't open, what the fuck is wrong with me?
The thing that was mainly preventing me was that she was sitting next to this other guy, and she kept on touching him but only in a friendly way. I think he might have been gay, but I wasn't sure. I didn't even find out.
No confidence, man. After my last big relationship
I failed hard last night.
I was in a club, sitting next to a really nice French girl and she was looking at me but my mouth wouldn't open, what the fuck is wrong with me?
The thing that was mainly preventing me was that she was sitting next to this other guy, and she kept on touching him but only in a friendly way. I think he might have been gay, but I wasn't sure. I didn't even find out.
No confidence, man. After my last big relationship
Tomorrow's a new day. Use it as a learning experience and try again tomorrow. You know what NOT to do now
.- Status