Ken Masters
Banned
-PXG- said:
bare back?
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Girl/Dating Age Part 2: A combined effort to give advice for those in need
- Thread starter -PXG-
- Start date
- Status
bare back?
Joel Was Right
Member
Read this post on another thread...
If you're struggling in approaching women and have serious self-esteem issues, what you need is not merely 'effort' but a gigantic leap in character and persona development. Courage and intent isn't the only thing, in my eyes, that get you to this position - you need to feel natural about it, like you're not putting work. Men who are successful with women aren't scientific in their approach nor are they motivated/pressured by a long past of depression and loneliness. And that's why I hate the generalisation that you need only 'try harder' to find yourself a girl.
If you are having problems with yourself, then there is no way you're going to succeed in getting someone else to like you. You need to first like yourself and have a change of heart before you can feel comfortable in approaching a girl you like successfully.
A friend of mind had this attitude in his early twenties [being depressed at never having a relationship despite being in his late 20's]. He's thirty now and regrets that he didn't put more effort in
If you're struggling in approaching women and have serious self-esteem issues, what you need is not merely 'effort' but a gigantic leap in character and persona development. Courage and intent isn't the only thing, in my eyes, that get you to this position - you need to feel natural about it, like you're not putting work. Men who are successful with women aren't scientific in their approach nor are they motivated/pressured by a long past of depression and loneliness. And that's why I hate the generalisation that you need only 'try harder' to find yourself a girl.
If you are having problems with yourself, then there is no way you're going to succeed in getting someone else to like you. You need to first like yourself and have a change of heart before you can feel comfortable in approaching a girl you like successfully.
Trigger Warning
Member
soultron said:
You're right. I'm currently living in a foreign country, and dating the women here is just an entirely different can of worms. So it was nice to find out that another American was into me. But the timing just isn't good.
Blue Ninja
Member
A girl really likes me, and while I like her, I wasn't all that attracted to her. She had major hopes for her and I, and I had to shoot her down. Twice, in fact. I felt like a dick.
A week later, I got rejected by the girl I did like.
The situation did give me some more self-confidence around girls, though, which I've been lacking up until now. It has shown me it's possible for girls to like me, and that has been a major ego boost.
Basically, however, what you need to realize is that they're still just people, and not put 'em on a pedestal. They'll scare the crap out of you otherwise. :lol
After my exams are finished, I'm gonna keep an eye out. I'm probably going to see the aforementioned girl on NYE, as well, so you never know, I guess.
A week later, I got rejected by the girl I did like.
The situation did give me some more self-confidence around girls, though, which I've been lacking up until now. It has shown me it's possible for girls to like me, and that has been a major ego boost.
Basically, however, what you need to realize is that they're still just people, and not put 'em on a pedestal. They'll scare the crap out of you otherwise. :lol
After my exams are finished, I'm gonna keep an eye out. I'm probably going to see the aforementioned girl on NYE, as well, so you never know, I guess.
ShadyLurker
Member
I know I just asked for advice in this thread, but I'm gonna make a stab at giving some.
I see a lot of people saying stuff like "I really want to ask out this girl I like". If you already know you like her a lot before you've even asked her out, that means you've hung out quite a bit. I find this actually makes dating harder. You already know a lot about each other, so conversation can be harder, especially in a more "formal" setting like a date. You already know her hobbies, likes/dislikes, favourite things etc.
As well getting to know them first may trap you in the friend zone if you don't make your intentions clear enough to start with. That can be overcome if you're good, but I've never had success. :lol
I never really "ask out a girl I like". I get numbers (contact information whatever it is) from girls I find physically attractive. That may sound shallow but physical attraction is pretty much necessary for a successful relationship. Then on the first date itself is when I decide if I "like" them or not. If I do, second date. If I don't, I never call them again. I admit this strategy does make you hang out with some very boring, unfun (but attractive) people. Makes finding a good one all the better though.
I see a lot of people saying stuff like "I really want to ask out this girl I like". If you already know you like her a lot before you've even asked her out, that means you've hung out quite a bit. I find this actually makes dating harder. You already know a lot about each other, so conversation can be harder, especially in a more "formal" setting like a date. You already know her hobbies, likes/dislikes, favourite things etc.
As well getting to know them first may trap you in the friend zone if you don't make your intentions clear enough to start with. That can be overcome if you're good, but I've never had success. :lol
I never really "ask out a girl I like". I get numbers (contact information whatever it is) from girls I find physically attractive. That may sound shallow but physical attraction is pretty much necessary for a successful relationship. Then on the first date itself is when I decide if I "like" them or not. If I do, second date. If I don't, I never call them again. I admit this strategy does make you hang out with some very boring, unfun (but attractive) people. Makes finding a good one all the better though.
HappyBivouac
Member
Man, how do I make my intentions known when the girl is on the other side of the planet for another week and a half? "Confessing feelings" is such a lame thing and I've never been one to go that route (well, not since high school) but I don't see what else I can do. It's killing me trying to keep up this facade of "friend who occasionally compliments her on being cute/attractive" and I'm afraid of getting friendzoned or losing to some other guy. I've only been holding out for her to get back to the states before being more direct but I don't foresee waiting working out for me anymore. Waiting is an excuse for the weak and ultimately leads to missed chances.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Ken Masters said:
Did that a few days ago, still kinda paranoid about might what have happened. I'm pretty sure I pulled out in time but I guess I'll find out soon enough.
Unless she's on the pill, don't fucking do it bare back. Even if you decide to pull out you're fighting against the most absolute form of human survival instinct that men have.
Rocket Scientist
Member
It takes two to tango. Time to start stepping on some toes, my man.
The Lamonster
Member
I didn't know where else to ask this-
Is it true that when a girl is on her period, there are pheromones or whatever that attract dudes? It seems like every month I am super horny for my girlfriend (like more than usual) when she's on her period or just before.
Is it true that when a girl is on her period, there are pheromones or whatever that attract dudes? It seems like every month I am super horny for my girlfriend (like more than usual) when she's on her period or just before.
The Shadow
Member
The Lamonster said:
Not her period. When she's ovulating. And it only happens if they're off BC.
The Lamonster
Member
She's on BC...so it could be my imagination.The Shadow said:
Don't get me wrong, I still get the job donesoultron said:One thing girls always say is that they're hornier during their periods.
That's why you gotta throw a towel down/do it in the shower/wear a dark-coloured condom and get the job done!
Just posted the following in the 'Crush' thread, but wanted some feedback....
Not really a crush, but an opportunity: cute girl at my supermarket that has just moved here from out of town (like me, and likely doesn't know many people either) to go to university. We've only talked briefly, but whatever. I've been batting 100% lately, but haven't really swung for the fences. Think I might take a gamble and ask her out at the check out counter when I go shopping later tonight (if she's there). It'll be a race against the clock, though. Last time when I first met her I wanted to ask her out instantly, but I'd already paid and she was scanning the next items. So I haven't really worked out a plan, but it might have to include a business card and embarrassing her a bit (won't be any privacy). Any suggestions on how to get it done within such a small window? Maybe just "Can I take you out some time?" and then hand her my number.
I normally don't ask out girls in such weird environments, but the calibre of female that I've been encountering through friends/acquaintances and at work has been pretty lacking in this new city of mine. Either only good to fool around with or already attached.
Not really a crush, but an opportunity: cute girl at my supermarket that has just moved here from out of town (like me, and likely doesn't know many people either) to go to university. We've only talked briefly, but whatever. I've been batting 100% lately, but haven't really swung for the fences. Think I might take a gamble and ask her out at the check out counter when I go shopping later tonight (if she's there). It'll be a race against the clock, though. Last time when I first met her I wanted to ask her out instantly, but I'd already paid and she was scanning the next items. So I haven't really worked out a plan, but it might have to include a business card and embarrassing her a bit (won't be any privacy). Any suggestions on how to get it done within such a small window? Maybe just "Can I take you out some time?" and then hand her my number.
I normally don't ask out girls in such weird environments, but the calibre of female that I've been encountering through friends/acquaintances and at work has been pretty lacking in this new city of mine. Either only good to fool around with or already attached.
Hmm. Asking girls out while they work can be annoying to them.
I'd just walk up to her check out and crack a joke like, "I got stuck with you again? Aw jeez!" If she responds well, keep joking around. Then I'd say something like, "You seem like you'd be fun outside the walls of a super market. Take my card and call me sometime!"
Leave it in her court. That way you don't have to "pressure her," in front of customers, for her number. It also makes you look like a confident, "I'm not going to die if you don't call me"-type.
In short: be a bad ass.
I'd just walk up to her check out and crack a joke like, "I got stuck with you again? Aw jeez!" If she responds well, keep joking around. Then I'd say something like, "You seem like you'd be fun outside the walls of a super market. Take my card and call me sometime!"
Leave it in her court. That way you don't have to "pressure her," in front of customers, for her number. It also makes you look like a confident, "I'm not going to die if you don't call me"-type.
In short: be a bad ass.
I'm getting conflicting messages.soultron said:
I actually never mentioned asking for her number. Agreed that pressuring her under those circumstances wouldn't be good. But your overall point is well taken - ie, she'll be at work and putting her on the spot might not be best. I won't ask a question then, but just propose getting together (in some way) and give her my card.
This thread has now justified its existence.
Ether_Snake
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soultron said:
Those are some of the worst lines I've ever read.
HappyBivouac
Member
K.Jack said:
I already did that weeks ago. I can't tell if she took it as a platonic date since we've been friends for a while or what. We're gonna get thai and then watch anime/movie at her place.
That really doesn't matter if the dude says them with confidence and a smile. I've got away with some of the biggest bullshit imaginable. One of the last girls I met up with I went up to and went "Hey, all my friends are talking to people and I don't want to stand around and look like a creepy loner type. What's up." Got her number and met up two days later :lolEther_Snake said:
That's not a platonic date, even if she says it is at the time. She's putting herself alone and most likely pressed up against you. She didn't just do that because you're warm and she doesn't want to wear a jacket. Go for it.
Ether_Snake
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Parts said:
That's completely different and sounds like it may have actually been true within the context. What soultron wrote sounds fucking corny, untrue, pre-written or copy/paste.
That's not a bad way to introduce yourself, though. Shows you're relaxed, amusing, unpretentious. Depends on the delivery, though, since it could come across as you not actually being interested.Parts said:
Also, it depends on the person. The 'material' has to come out naturally and be consistent with the rest of your personality. Though I'm not sure "I got stuck with you again? Aw jeez!" would work for anyone.
No offense, soultron! Great advice otherwise.
They're suggestions. The key thing is just to be funny and confident.Ether_Snake said:
What would you suggest? Anything either of us cook up will come up as pre-written. Because it is. I'd like to see your take -- and I mean that genuinely -- because I'm willing to learn too. The funny and confident method works for me, when I gauge the situation properly and know that it's the best approach for that situation.
If you can throw out something that might work, you'd be benefiting socreges and myself. Again, I'm not close-minded to what you have to say.
socreges said:
Haha. I get what you're saying. I'll have to field test it.
Ether_Snake
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Funny and confident works, but you don't learn that from reading and repeating some lines.
You can't learn confidence and what not from memorizing lines. We both know that.Ether_Snake said:
The attitude and approach is the most important thing in Socreges' situation. The business card idea he has is great. I just think the one minor tweak I already stated was, don't ask her if you can call or hang out, just tell her that you would like to (while giving her your number) and leave it at that. I think it's a great no-pressure approach for both their sakes since she's in a working environment.
I think it also makes him come off as confident because it won't break his heart if she doesn't call. She knows he finds her attractive at this point, all that's left is for her to confirm the attraction on her end -- and she will if she calls.
Ether_Snake
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soultron said:
No she won't. Girls don't want to call you, they want you to call them. A lot of good looking girls will be happy to know you had the guts to approach them and small talk when all the other guys they were hoping would approach them were too pussy to do so. They get pissed and/or depressed because they do all that shit to look good and the guys still don't talk to them. When you come up to them and take the reigns they are fucking glad, it gives them confirmation that they aren't crazy or stupid or ugly, so if you make it that far they really don't expect you to give them a business card so they can call you, they expect you to ask for their number or rush to either one's place and fuck. Giving her a card after leading her on is insulting, it makes it look like you're saying "hey you are just another girl to me so all of those smiles and that small talk was just to give you my business card, goodbye". It's the equivalent of getting a phone call from a call center with all the bullshit that comes with it.
So then what's your suggestion?Ether_Snake said:
I think you make good points. I didn't look at it from that angle.
My next suggestion would be to wait until she has a clear check out line or something to directly ask her for her number. But that's a lot of waiting and I'm an impatient guy when it comes to something as small as asking a girl for her number.
I really think her being in a working situation is the thing that complicates the number. If this was in public I'd have been the first to agree you just ask. But living with girls, dating waitresses, and so on; every one of them bitches about how they hate being asked out by guys at work. (Even though they secretly love it. I had one GF who saved the numbers guys gave her at work. And before you ask, I didn't give a shit.) That's where my opinion shapes my suggested approach in this situation.
I want the usual two-line answer from jon bones on this one. Haha.
Ether_Snake
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My suggestion is that this is just one girl among so many others so it really doesn't matter whatever happens in that specific case. What's important is that he either acts (Hey wanna go out some time?) or stops thinking about it.
That's all. It's not rocket science. If it fails, big fucking deal.
That's all. It's not rocket science. If it fails, big fucking deal.
You've got a point. But I think you're being too simplistic.Ether_Snake said:
For one, it depends on the delivery. If I'm sincere and show my interest, she won't necessarily feel that this is just me handing out another card, but more that it was just the best method (which is the truth). Also, the last time I gave a girl my number, it worked perfectly. She texted me a "
" once she got to her phone, thereby giving me her #, and then I called her later on.I see this as a puzzle. There's a right way to do it. Just not sure what that is.
Of course, she might not even be there. Ah well. At least that way I won't have to be ashamed if I bring a box of Fruit Loops to the cash. :lol
[edit] Right on, guys. I'm not sweating the details. This is interesting conversation, though.
There are four kinds of women:
1. Those that y'aren't attracted to;
2. Those that may be any combination of:
(a) kind, polite, well-mannered;
(b) attractive, tall, thin;
(c) stable, successful;
(d) available;
3. "Rabbit hole" women; and
4. Quasi-humanoid women. (like centaurs!)
Let's ignore the first and fourth. The tension that I want to raise is between Type 2 ("attractive") and Type 3 ("rabbit hole"). I'll quickly elaborate on them each:
Type 2 women are those that you find attractive and with whom you may develop an emotional connection. Type 3 women, by comparison, are those with whom you feel an innate, affective connection. These are "rabbit hole" women because they remind me of the rabbit hole in Alice and Wonderland: y'don't know where it goes, how deep it is, but you want to find out - Type 3 women have a degree of potential that Type 2 seem to lack.
Hence, my situation:
I have a date with an incredibly attractive, kind, and seemingly put-together Type 2 in a couple of weeks. That's great! I'm quite excited. I look forward to getting to know her and all of that jazz. Trouble is, I feel like my relationship with her has inherent limitations because we don't seem have to connect on that organic, affective level.
So, what's the rub, bub?
Several months ago (Sept.), my friend and I both met a Type 3. I misread her for a Type 2. My friend and I made an agreement that he would get the first crack at courting her and that, if unsuccessful, I could then ask her out. (I was fine; I thought she was a Type 2)
Surprise: my friend was successful. He's now dating the Type 3.
Once they got together, I consciously distanced myself from her because I didn't want my friend to feel threatened (and because I essentially lost hope/interest). Based on her terse behaviour towards me, as well, I figure that my friend may have mildly trash talked me out of concern that I would make a move.
Fast forward several months (early Dec.), the Type 3 has been commenting on quite a bit of my activity on facebook. We've found ourselves in rather involved discussions about mutual interests on several occasions and I do sense that we may share that organic, innate bond that I've spoken of above.
Well. I've found that Type 3 women are rare. Like centaurs. When you find one, it's best to play your strongest hand and see what happens. The trouble is, of course, that she's in a relationship with my friend. Balls.
This is the irony, then: I have a date with an incredibly beautiful, polite, and all-together wonderful woman that I struggle to anticipate because I find myself far more interested in another woman, who seems to have more long-term potential. I've been down the rabbit hole before - it's fucking incredible.
Just venting, trying to avoid being a major asshole to my friend and upcoming date.
1. Those that y'aren't attracted to;
2. Those that may be any combination of:
(a) kind, polite, well-mannered;
(b) attractive, tall, thin;
(c) stable, successful;
(d) available;
3. "Rabbit hole" women; and
4. Quasi-humanoid women. (like centaurs!)
Let's ignore the first and fourth. The tension that I want to raise is between Type 2 ("attractive") and Type 3 ("rabbit hole"). I'll quickly elaborate on them each:
Type 2 women are those that you find attractive and with whom you may develop an emotional connection. Type 3 women, by comparison, are those with whom you feel an innate, affective connection. These are "rabbit hole" women because they remind me of the rabbit hole in Alice and Wonderland: y'don't know where it goes, how deep it is, but you want to find out - Type 3 women have a degree of potential that Type 2 seem to lack.
Hence, my situation:
I have a date with an incredibly attractive, kind, and seemingly put-together Type 2 in a couple of weeks. That's great! I'm quite excited. I look forward to getting to know her and all of that jazz. Trouble is, I feel like my relationship with her has inherent limitations because we don't seem have to connect on that organic, affective level.
So, what's the rub, bub?
Several months ago (Sept.), my friend and I both met a Type 3. I misread her for a Type 2. My friend and I made an agreement that he would get the first crack at courting her and that, if unsuccessful, I could then ask her out. (I was fine; I thought she was a Type 2)
Surprise: my friend was successful. He's now dating the Type 3.
Once they got together, I consciously distanced myself from her because I didn't want my friend to feel threatened (and because I essentially lost hope/interest). Based on her terse behaviour towards me, as well, I figure that my friend may have mildly trash talked me out of concern that I would make a move.
Fast forward several months (early Dec.), the Type 3 has been commenting on quite a bit of my activity on facebook. We've found ourselves in rather involved discussions about mutual interests on several occasions and I do sense that we may share that organic, innate bond that I've spoken of above.
Well. I've found that Type 3 women are rare. Like centaurs. When you find one, it's best to play your strongest hand and see what happens. The trouble is, of course, that she's in a relationship with my friend. Balls.
This is the irony, then: I have a date with an incredibly beautiful, polite, and all-together wonderful woman that I struggle to anticipate because I find myself far more interested in another woman, who seems to have more long-term potential. I've been down the rabbit hole before - it's fucking incredible.
Just venting, trying to avoid being a major asshole to my friend and upcoming date.
If the girl your friend is seeing went from type 2 to type 3, then who's to say that the girl you're going on a date with (and have pegged as a type 2) can't jump tiers as well?
I think any type 2s have the potential of jumping to be a type 3 if you just get to know them.
I know what you're talking about, but think you are overcomplicating things. Another thing is, don't necessarily mistake common interests for attraction. I'm not sure if that's what's happening between you and your friend's girl, but that's what it sounds like. Having common interests is always nice though!
EDIT: I mourn the loss of that one megababe GF you had. If I remember correctly/creepily, she was the one with glasses. She stood out in that "post your GF" thread, moreso since you have such a distinctive user name.
I think any type 2s have the potential of jumping to be a type 3 if you just get to know them.
I know what you're talking about, but think you are overcomplicating things. Another thing is, don't necessarily mistake common interests for attraction. I'm not sure if that's what's happening between you and your friend's girl, but that's what it sounds like. Having common interests is always nice though!
EDIT: I mourn the loss of that one megababe GF you had. If I remember correctly/creepily, she was the one with glasses. She stood out in that "post your GF" thread, moreso since you have such a distinctive user name.
Meus Renaissance said:
Meus is right on the ball here.
Guys (and I'm guilty of this) tend look for some sort of pick up routines or whatever in order to get women, as if there was some sort of generic algorithm and step by step process to bag any woman. So 'trying harder' tends to fail... you just have to BE comfortable with asking women out and truly not giving a flying fuck either way what the outcome is.
I think a lot of the mystique comes from seeing women as these extremely hard to get objects - that message is strongly implied sometimes sometimes by GAFfers here and definitely within the 'pick-up community'. There is no step-by-step process, it truly is a numbers game, and the more you try to meet women, the higher you are likely to succeed. There is no silver bullet solution. The real 'silver bullet' is getting your ass rejected so many times that it doesn't sting anymore, and then you are like "fuck it, okay I'm going to ask this one out, if she says 'no', then who gives a shit." I think women are much easier to bag than a lot of GAFfers realize, that they are pretty much ripe for the taking if you have some stones. And by liking who you are, the stones come much easier.
The real quandry truly isn't getting girls - it is sifting through the insane amount of... insane ones out there. Trust me, there is no shortage of insane women out there. I dated one, she was a real asshole, she was my only relationship... never again. Now, at 29, I'm probably going to jump back in the game this year, and I'll probably be seeking GAF's help :lol But luckily having a nearly two year relationship has given me confidence and experience to not give a shit in asking women out.
Good points. Don't say you're "probably" going to jump back into the game. Don't waffle. Either take more time for yourself or get out there. Make one decision and stick to it!
You seem like you have all the knowledge. Don't worry about being 29, either. You can easily nip the early- to mid-twenties girls out there!
You seem like you have all the knowledge. Don't worry about being 29, either. You can easily nip the early- to mid-twenties girls out there!
hydragonwarrior
Member
Holy shit, I just finished reading up on std's and I need some clarification - so even with a condom, is herpes still a high risk? Everything I read makes it feel like herpes is 90% risk even when domed, and it's making me feel slightly uncomfortable lol
SpectreFire
Member
Out of every ten guys a girl dates, I would say roughly half of them will turn out somewhat intelligent, three or four will be actually decent people and two or three of them will be legitimately funny. Out of those ten guys, that chances that one of them has all three attributes? Probably not high enough to constitute even a whole person.
Sure, there's a lot of competition in the dating world out there, but most people don't realize, that the majority of that competition is pretty downright crappy. Competition is stiff only if you're one of the incompetent masses. Taking online dating for example. Sure a cute girl will probably be inundated with just an onslaught of messages every day, but if you actually read through those messages, you'll realize that out of fifty, ten of them might contain more than five words and of those, only maybe three or four will be worth reading.
What people need to realize, that the competition is only bad if you're an asshole. If you're a decent person, with a good sense of humour and some wit about you, then you're a huge win for most girls. You're what they're usually looking for, but probably can't find because you never have the balls to let them know you exist.
If you're on GAF, then chances are, you're not going to be too terribly stupid, you're going to have at least some sense of humour, although whether or not you're a decent person is honestly a complete crapshoot (some of you people are assholes). But overall, you have a decent-ass chance of meeting girls who'd be interested in going out with you. Don't think you don't have anything to offer compared to the masses of men out there, because chances are, you actually do. More than you know it.
Sure, there's a lot of competition in the dating world out there, but most people don't realize, that the majority of that competition is pretty downright crappy. Competition is stiff only if you're one of the incompetent masses. Taking online dating for example. Sure a cute girl will probably be inundated with just an onslaught of messages every day, but if you actually read through those messages, you'll realize that out of fifty, ten of them might contain more than five words and of those, only maybe three or four will be worth reading.
What people need to realize, that the competition is only bad if you're an asshole. If you're a decent person, with a good sense of humour and some wit about you, then you're a huge win for most girls. You're what they're usually looking for, but probably can't find because you never have the balls to let them know you exist.
If you're on GAF, then chances are, you're not going to be too terribly stupid, you're going to have at least some sense of humour, although whether or not you're a decent person is honestly a complete crapshoot (some of you people are assholes). But overall, you have a decent-ass chance of meeting girls who'd be interested in going out with you. Don't think you don't have anything to offer compared to the masses of men out there, because chances are, you actually do. More than you know it.
SpectreFire said:
This post speaks the truth. As I grew older and more confident, "doormat" suddenly becomes "genuinely nice and witty guy" and a lot more women gravitated towards me. However, the new issue was that, as I grew older, that they didn't have what I was looking for in a woman. Or that the women that I did choose to date didn't work out.
soultron said:
Cheating, multiple times (physical and emotional)
Serial cheater (I was her 7th relationship at the age of 18)
Stole $2000+
Totally irresponsible (abandoned her cat, who was a birthday gift from a former boyfriend with me - I had to give it to an adoptive family)
Emotionally abusive (ex. told me to lose weight or no more sex)
Cocaine addict
Debt, debt, debt (to her bipolar mother!)
Eating disorder
Compulsive liar (ex. wouldn't even let me see the screen of her laptop while we were living together out of fear that I would discover her psychotic lying)
Academic probation
The list goes on and on and on.
Edit: pretty apples can have rotten cores
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