Gliding is not possible in Zero Dawn on PS4 due to technical reasons. But is possible in Forbidden West, even on PS4 - why?

Rea

Rea

Member


As the title says, why it is possible now, if ps4 can't handle it due to technical reasons it shouldn't be able to handle in this new game.
 
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because they lied... very easy

just like they lied about flying mounts not being possible without an SSD, complete bullshit (or their engine sucks at streaming assets... one of the 2)
 
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Very Funny Reaction GIF
 
Because they improved the engine and how it works on PS4 so they managed to cram it in without the original technical issues. It's been 4 years you know. The engine and content of HZD is not exactly the engine and content of HFW. They didn't say gliding is impossible on PS4 (so you then troll contrast gliding in Switch/WiiU/Wii/PSOne games, lol) so you'll never have any game from any developer regardless of content with such a feature! They said it's impossible with their exact circumstances at the time for their own specific game, engine, content, at the time. It's not that hard guys.
 
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01011001 said:
because they lied... very easy

just like they lied about flying mounts not being possible without an SSD, complete bullshit (or their engine sucks at streaming assets... one of the 2)
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lol i love how all these game styles and game mechanics we have had for 30 years now, suddenly are not capable without a super SSD.
People lap it up too.
 
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Have you ever stop to think maybe their game engine tools at the time were not advanced enough to implement this within the frame budget back in 2017, but now their rendering techniques and their engine tools are advanced enough to squeeze this feature within the frame budget even on PS4?

It doesn't always have to be what is possible with the hardware limits, these developers push the software side of things so that they can eke out every bit of performance out of the same hardware. Remember that Uncharted 1, Uncharted 2 and then finally Uncharted 3 were all on the same fucking console PS3...
 
Sometimes in development we say such things because there were time constraints to find a solution for the problem at hand.

Usually the client doesn't want to pay for the time needed to research a good solution to the problem, from there you have two options:

1. Try to come up with a hacky, half done implementation.

2. Remove the feature altogether and send it to the backlog to be added later IF there's time, or in this case, for the next game.
 
the same way games on the same hardware by the same developer look vastly different at the end of gen vs beginning of gen. More mature and better tools/software tech
 
He did not say it wasn't possible because of the PS4.

"Technical reasons" might be so many different things, there is no reason at all to assume that the issue was the console.
 
01011001 said:
well they did... as evidenced by the fact that the second one has the feature previously said to be impossible on PS4
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Why would they lie? And where's your proof. It could be their engine that the ps4 couldn't handle that mechanic, now the engine is more optimized for ps4, it is possible.
 
They are talking about their engine. They had difficulties implementing flying back then. Now that the engine is updated/they have a better understanding of it, it's a different story.

GG went from developing a linear game to an open-world game. Think about it.
 
Apollo Helios said:
Have you ever stop to think maybe their game engine tools at the time were not advanced enough to implement this within the frame budget back in 2017, but now their rendering techniques and their engine tools are advanced enough to squeeze this feature within the frame budget even on PS4?

It doesn't always have to be what is possible with the hardware limits, these developers push the software side of things so that they can eke out every bit of performance out of the same hardware. Remember that Uncharted 1, Uncharted 2 and then finally Uncharted 3 were all on the same fucking console PS3...
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HAL-01 said:
the same way games on the same hardware by the same developer look vastly different at the end of gen vs beginning of gen. More mature and better tools/software tech
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Maybe, because some people claiming that the game engines and the console hardware is already pushing to it's limitations and potentials, when at launched. Just curious how is this possible when ps4 is already at its limits during when launched.
 
Rea said:
Why would they lie? And where's your proof. It could be their engine that the ps4 couldn't handle that mechanic, now the engine is more optimized for ps4, it is possible.
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saying not possible on PS4 is not the same as not possible on their engine... that's why it is a lie
 
01011001 said:
saying not possible on PS4 is not the same as not possible on their engine... that's why it is a lie
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ok and when did they say "not possible on PS4"
Ive never heard of any game developer that would just go "not possible" when presented with a tech problem. its literally the programmer's job to figure out a way
 
Rea said:
Maybe, because some people claiming that the game engines and the console hardware is already pushing to it's limitations and potentials, when at launched. Just curious how is this possible when ps4 is already at its limits during when launched.
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Because they are always pushing the hardware to the limits WITHIN the constraints of their current render technologies and solutions, ALWAYS pushing to limits with their current knowledge. Knowledge, technology, and solutions are always getting better and better, which EFFECTIVELY pushes hardware to new limits (meanwhile theoretical maximum is always static - xx TF is always xx TF).

For example, ND render guy gave a Siggraph presentation for TLoU II in 2020


These rendering techniques, using 'ribbons' based on screen space uv data is ALL new and was never done before. By using Screen space data already generated for SSR (screen-space reflections) for a particle system accelerated by GPU, they offloaded some calculation off CPU and at the same time made completely new usage for effects like blood splatters and rain drops.
 
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The guys who talk about the games are not programmers .. they are marketing , salesmen, PR .. they will say anything.
 
Technical reasons could simply mean the game engine wasn't designed with the mechanic in mind. Why wouldn't it be possible? I remember playing Warhawk on the PS3 where you're moving very quickly through a very large open field. The game just needs to be designed with purpose right from the beginning.
 
Rea said:


As the title says, why it is possible now, if ps4 can't handle it due to technical reasons it shouldn't be able to handle in this new game.
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I don't think they mentioned it wasn't possible on the PS4. They said it wasn't something they could add due to technical reasons. This could be many things depending on when they wanted to add it. It could be engine related. AI maybe couldn't really track in the air. It could be that the world was made and gliding would break things requiring redesigns. It could be any number of things.
 
Why does Uncharted 2 look so much better than 1?
Why could they only get Uncharted 1 to look ok but then it suddenly looked incredible in 2?

Tech evolves, improves and gets more polished over time.
Horizon was their first open world game, and using a new engine too. It seems reasonable to me that both their tech as well as their skills using it have improved in the 4 years since Horizon launched (and probably like 8 or more years since they first started working on it)
 
Three said:
I don't think they mentioned it wasn't possible on the PS4. They said it wasn't something they could add due to technical reasons. This could be many things depending on when they wanted to add it. It could be engine related. AI maybe couldn't really track in the air. It could be that the world was made and gliding would break things requiring redesigns. It could be any number of things.
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Yeah, many things. Let's speculate and discuss.
I just wondering what could be the reason. It is because their engine at that time couldn't handle very far draw distance?
 
Rea said:
Paragliding is even possible on nintendo switch, (i know HZ is more graphically demanding) but ps4 is alot more powerful than switch anyway. Just curious what's the technical reason.
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I think many reasons are given and you should read before continue asking the same thing. Technical reason unrelated to PS4 hardware like you try to suggest, but either budget/time constraints or game engine inefficiencies.
 
Stuart360 said:
lol i love how all these game styles and game mechanics we have had for 30 years now, suddenly are not capable without a super SSD.
People lap it up too.
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Flying works just fine on a regular HDD but if you're streaming your level then you'll need an SSD to go really fast to pull everything in quicker.

Take GTAV for example, you can fly but it is slooooooooooooow!
 
bitbydeath said:
Flying works just fine on a regular HDD but if you're streaming your level then you'll need an SSD to go really fast to pull everything in quicker.

Take GTAV for example, you can fly but it is slooooooooooooow!
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Dude there have been loads of fast moving games for decades. Even in GTA5, you get the fighter jet and you can get some pretty fast speeds, at least on PC anyway.
I mean we just had that UE5 demo being played on standard HDD's with zero stutter and pop in.
yeah, if you want to stream somehting as detailed as that orig UE5 demo on PS5 at super fast speeds, you probably do neeed a good SSD, but its not like we are going to get games as detailed as that any time soon.
 
01011001 said:
saying not possible on PS4 is not the same as not possible on their engine... that's why it is a lie
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Well, if it was really worded this way I'd put it in the marketing strangeness because there were plenty of games with flying "mounts" on PlayStation, even before the PS4... And why would you want to make your console look weak?
 
Rea said:
Yeah in the first game, they scrap that feature due to technical reason.
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They probably hit some memory allocation or performance bottleneck so they scrapped it because of time constraints.

I doubt anyone with any technical background would have thought that something of that nature was impossible on PS4 for some reason.
 
Rea said:
That's the question. LoL. Why it is not possible on HZ Zero dawn
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Because Link went in search for that dumb b*tch Zelda around the same time Aloy started her journey 😉 ... they could not "adjust the game in time" with a mechanic seen in an other product.

Steve Brule Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
Dog Flirting GIF
 
Stuart360 said:
Dude there have been loads of fast moving games for decades. Even in GTA5, you get the fighter jet and you can get some pretty fast speeds, at least on PC anyway.
I mean we just had that UE5 demo being played on standard HDD's with zero stutter and pop in.
yeah, if you want to stream somehting as detailed as that orig UE5 demo on PS5 at super fast speeds, you probably do neeed a good SSD, but its not like we are going to get games as detailed as that any time soon.
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It's a bit faster but still slow travelling overall.
If you want to screech across the sky or move as fast as Spider-Man did in that demo then you'd need an SSD for sure.


It'll depend on what the devs want to achieve, and what the engine is capable of, of course.
 
bitbydeath said:
It's a bit faster but still slow travelling overall.
If you want to screech across the sky or move as fast as Spider-Man did in that demo then you'd need an SSD for sure.


It'll depend on what the devs want to achieve, and what the engine is capable of, of course.
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So if Spiiderman comes to PC (which is very possible now), you think a requirement will be a SSD?.
I think it will 'reccomend' a SSD, but the game will run fine on a HDD. Just like on PS4. :messenger_winking:
 
It's also entirely possible PS4 pro was the target console this time instead of the base PS4. That does imply that the base PS4 version will perform poorly though...
 
Couldn't they bake it into the story. Make it stutter at 15fps and say the glider activates a glitch in the ps3 matrix
 
Apollo Helios said:
Because they are always pushing the hardware to the limits WITHIN the constraints of their current render technologies and solutions, ALWAYS pushing to limits with their current knowledge. Knowledge, technology, and solutions are always getting better and better, which EFFECTIVELY pushes hardware to new limits (meanwhile theoretical maximum is always static - xx TF is always xx TF).

For example, ND render guy gave a Siggraph presentation for TLoU II in 2020


These rendering techniques, using 'ribbons' based on screen space uv data is ALL new and was never done before. By using Screen space data already generated for SSR (screen-space reflections) for a particle system accelerated by GPU, they offloaded some calculation off CPU and at the same time made completely new usage for effects like blood splatters and rain drops.
Click to expand...

Thx for the video, it is amazing. I learned alot by watching this.
 
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