Rea
Member
Erm.. it doesn't work that way. Ps4 pro has only improved resolution than ps4. Everything else must be the same in both consoles.
Gliding is not possible in Zero Dawn on PS4 due to technical reasons. But is possible in Forbidden West, even on PS4 - why?
Rea
Member
All I'm seeing in ps4 games, pro only has improved resolution or framesrates. I have both consoles, by the way. It looks identical in everything.
JerryinSoCal
Member
That's not what they said, they talked about flying not being in and at the time they were making the first game with the engine in the state that they had it it wasn't going to work in a way that they found acceptable. It has been years, the engine has been improved etc, if flying wasn't meant to be a big part of the game why would they focus resources on that instead of getting the other things working properly?
Portugeezer
Member
They made improvements to their engine over the past 4 years?
Klayzer
Member
No they lied/sarcasm. Just ask the Xfans on Gaf, they never try to twist anything Sony related into a controversy. Well, except everything.
SLB1904
Banned
Doubt it. They lied
Ezquimacore
Banned
y'all can be fanboys but y'all trust these companies too much, they're full of bullshit.
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I'm 99.9% sure someone from Guerrilla Games said that having flying mounts wasn't possible on PS4 back when HZD launched, I don't think they said a glider was impossible.
TBH though Lair had a flying mount on PS3, Zelda BoTW has a glider on Wii U and Switch, the games are a fair bit less detailed than Zero Dawn is, most likely Guerrilla just didn't have those things baked into the Decima Engine during HZD's development and they wanted to add them for Forbidden West, so they optimized their tools and added those features in for this game.
TBH though Lair had a flying mount on PS3, Zelda BoTW has a glider on Wii U and Switch, the games are a fair bit less detailed than Zero Dawn is, most likely Guerrilla just didn't have those things baked into the Decima Engine during HZD's development and they wanted to add them for Forbidden West, so they optimized their tools and added those features in for this game.
Krappadizzle
Member
yurinka
Member
'Technical issues', which can mean a lot of things. Probably some nasty bug in some areas because of how they made the collisions and didn't work well with how their level design was, or something like that.
Who knows. Very likely it was because when they tried to introduce it caused some issue with something else from the game or the engine. For sure it wasn't lack of horsepower or some console-related issue. It must have been something from the game or the engine.
Way before Botw many other games had similar features, like parachutes or stuff like that. Not sure, but I'd bet GTA3 already had parachutes.
There are many other games with flying mounts like Panzer Dragoon, or helicopters in open world games.
They didn't implement these features because they didn't want, or maybe because didn't have tie.
Probably had the idea of including them in a point of the project where there wasn't enough time to implement many required changes and related testing that it may have needed for some reason, maybe related to colissions, streaming, rendering from non-controlled too high positions or something, or caused some issues with their existing level design, or something like that. Specially considering it was their first open world game and the first game for a new engine they were creating at the same time than the game.
In most games there are a lot of ideas that doesn't make the cut because there isn't infinite time and resources and they should stop adding stuff at some point, or because after some prototyping it doesn't feel well. In many cases, part of this cut or not greenlighted stuff gets included on a DLC or sequel.
You're talking as if BotW created some new feature, and it wasn't the case.Because Link went in search for that dumb b*tch Zelda around the same time Aloy started her journey... they could not "adjust the game in time" with a mechanic seen in an other product.
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Ezquimacore
Banned
lmao Zelda and Horizon are tied together forever.... or at least while Horizon lasts, that would be 2 more games.
yurinka
Member
As I remember he say they didn't implement it 'due to technical issues'. This doesn't mean it isn't impossible in the console or in the engine.
Wait...let me get this straight....
Are you trying to tell us....engines, tools can....improve over time...???
Because I see so many experts tell us that only MS engines, tools can improve.....Sony is forever stuck in time.
EDIT: I didnt expect push back on these posts....but should have known from the usual suspects.
.....Rift Apart should be proof of this.....because I dont think Insomniac are using UE5.......
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Negotiator101
Member
Jim Ryan wants to be a real boy but he can't stop lying!
Shubh_C63
Member
I read it like it was technical issue in terms of game design.
You are giving player choice to leap down from any cliff and glide off to the sunset then the entire world design has to incorporate that, assets and shit wise. Maybe it wasn't possible without overhauling the core design of enemy placement, small area sizes, cameras on the vistas etc on how to engage the player.
Save the best for the sequel.
You are giving player choice to leap down from any cliff and glide off to the sunset then the entire world design has to incorporate that, assets and shit wise. Maybe it wasn't possible without overhauling the core design of enemy placement, small area sizes, cameras on the vistas etc on how to engage the player.
Save the best for the sequel.
GuinGuin
Banned
Flying, gliding, swimming and literally anything else you can thing of is possible on ps4 and has been done many times before. If they wanted those systems they can simply integrate them into their engine and adjust detail and performance to compensate for the more robust requirements. They simply didn't want flying in their game is the only reason it isn't there. It ruins exploration, climbing and discovery in other games like Watch Dogs Legion. It's a purposeful design choice. If a game as janky as Skyrim can have flying mounts any game can do it if they decide to program it in.
MOTM
Banned
Well people were saying it isn't possible without PS5's super fast SSD.
GuinGuin
Banned
Dumbest shit I ever heard. Skyrim had it on PS3.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
The switch is way less powerful and link can glide.
my response makes as much sense as Sony's excuse.
why is it every upgrade to gens it's like the devs forget what was possible before.
We moved from SD to HD a lot of devs forgot colour was possible it was all grim dark
my response makes as much sense as Sony's excuse.
why is it every upgrade to gens it's like the devs forget what was possible before.
We moved from SD to HD a lot of devs forgot colour was possible it was all grim dark
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CamHostage
Member
For one thing, any idea where? This is one of those "it's common knowledge that they said..." quotes that get cycled around, but every time I've seen it, there's never been a citation of somebody actually saying it.
But whatever, somebody from Guerrilla probably did mention something about air travel systems somewhere not being feasible for the first game. There's always challenges with game development, and they take time to fix or build, if they even can be done at all with the tools you have available at the time. In the case of Aloy gliding or flying, it could be a ton of really complicated hurdles of LOD management and level design and barriers of zone management and lots of other hassles, or it could be something as simple as the AI was designed to not have to look up when tracking characters due to their cone of vision being 2D instead of 3D, and that would have been a few weeks worth of work of redevelopment and play testing that wasn't in the schedule. (Not saying that's the answer, I assume enemies do track up, just saying that there are tons of these little things that are a nightmare to developers because they built a routine to do X based on the game design being exactly X, then a designer comes around way late into the project and asks, "what about if we also did Y and Z?" Lots of parts of games are cheats and tricks and dumb hacks that only work because you the gamer don't get to ask the magician how they do their tricks.)
Every new project is a chance to rethink things that didn't work out or were too hard to commit to/complete the first time around. GTA 3 had no flight and had distinct loading gates when you crossed bridges; by GTA SA on the same platform, you were flying all over the place and it almost never needed to pause for loading. Horizon itself does have "flight" in it, just not on purpose. Eventually you will hit a wall that you cannot find a way over, but technical limitations are just problems you don't have a solution for, yet.
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Rea
Member
Great post. Thank you.
GuinGuin
Banned
You could fly across the map in San Andreas on PS2. It was never a hardware limitation. It was a design choice. Exploration is more challenging and meaningful on foot.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
And now with everything from Sony being cross-gen, everything is possible now regardless of power. All the "only possible with power of the SSD" messaging now is awkward.
Oddvintagechap
Banned
Kraken Vs ZLIB: 29% Smaller Game Sizes Losslessly, 297% Faster Decompression on PS5
Kraken VS ZLIB: According to the official graph by RAD Game Tools, Kraken has 29% higher compression ratio over ZLIB (used in PS4 and other platforms), and does it 3-5x faster (doesn't really concern us as gamers, only good for devs). Both Kraken and ZLIB are lossless compressions, meaning data...
Easy Kraken. Assets are easily dumped and loaded now because of new streaming tech.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
It wouldn't be the first as TLG perform terribly on base console.
GuinGuin
Banned
Kraken Vs ZLIB: 29% Smaller Game Sizes Losslessly, 297% Faster Decompression on PS5
Kraken VS ZLIB: According to the official graph by RAD Game Tools, Kraken has 29% higher compression ratio over ZLIB (used in PS4 and other platforms), and does it 3-5x faster (doesn't really concern us as gamers, only good for devs). Both Kraken and ZLIB are lossless compressions, meaning data...www.neogaf.com
Easy Kraken. Assets are easily dumped and loaded now because of new streaming tech.
Good point. Kraken and Oodle are hardware accelerated on PS5 but PS4 can also use it to vastly improve loading and asset streaming.
Oddvintagechap
Banned
This is one of the goofiest comments I ever seen.
Theres a budget to everything. There's a limit of systems, draw distance, polygons that can be displayed at a time according to the engine's ability. You dont go why can TLoU2 do this but not Uncharted 4. Engines improve. Clearly going into the sky would make you expan the draw distances that the engine couldnt stream with the asset density the game had. Now with kraken, they could.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Fox Mulder
Member
Or their engine and experience got better. Uncharted 3 or TLOU is way better than Uncharted 1and came out on the same console too.
Kumomeme
Member
probably they improved their engine streaming capabilities since then. for example developers Ghost of Tsushima shared their technique of making loading faster with other studios. dont forget HZD is their first open world game so it makesense if there is technical hurdle on their side especially on their engine(correct me if im wrong).
also isnt what they said before is about adding abilities to ride flying mount instead of glide like botw?
also isnt what they said before is about adding abilities to ride flying mount instead of glide like botw?
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Yes, and as many said before in this topic, an engine can evolve.
It is not like a developer makes an engine, the engine works, and then the developer calls it a day and just do nothing to improve the engine? That not how it works.
I give you a simple example. Epic made the Unreal engine.
Now they are bringing the Unreal 4 engine.
Its not rockerscience to understand how that works.
There is no discusion needed. Its logical that developers always find ways to improve theyr engine, thats all. They found a way to improve theyr existing gameengine for the PS4, you digging way to deep.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Yeah Zelda and other Nintendo games are milked till Kingdom comes. I mean how many Zelda, Mario and so on games are there for decades?? I rest my chase.
Ezquimacore
Banned
well the last zelda sold 23 million copies so I guess it's working
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Thats not the subject. horizon Forbidden West is bound to Zelda in the minds of Nintendo fanboys cous Guerrilla is stealing the concept of the glider from Zelda.
Jadajadajada.....
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Most likely "technical reason" would be limitations in scene/draw-culling and or collision mesh issues.
In the H:ZD as it exists you can only look down from high elevations in certain preset locations (tallnecks, cliffs, towers etc.) which makes draw-load balancing easy. Allowing the player to glide from any high vantage point adds in a lot of work because not only do you need to validate that you aren't getting pop-ins and or slow-downs when the player glides from-to certain map locations, but you need to factor in how that new traversal ability affects gameplay.
As in, can the player glide out-of-bounds? End up gliding through areas of geometry that were unreachable normally (like tops of structures that may not have collision meshes), does it allow the player to break event logic by skipping trail "breadcrumbs" and triggers, etc.
Its a fuck-load of extra work. What's more it also precludes the use of techniques like billboards and imposters as the illusion created by such methods can only stand up when the viewing location is kept to a suitable distance/angle.
In the H:ZD as it exists you can only look down from high elevations in certain preset locations (tallnecks, cliffs, towers etc.) which makes draw-load balancing easy. Allowing the player to glide from any high vantage point adds in a lot of work because not only do you need to validate that you aren't getting pop-ins and or slow-downs when the player glides from-to certain map locations, but you need to factor in how that new traversal ability affects gameplay.
As in, can the player glide out-of-bounds? End up gliding through areas of geometry that were unreachable normally (like tops of structures that may not have collision meshes), does it allow the player to break event logic by skipping trail "breadcrumbs" and triggers, etc.
Its a fuck-load of extra work. What's more it also precludes the use of techniques like billboards and imposters as the illusion created by such methods can only stand up when the viewing location is kept to a suitable distance/angle.
Ezquimacore
Banned
I mean they're not stealing it cause is not new but they certainly saw that people like the paraglider, it's a good method of traversal they should use it.
Miles708
Member
Apparently devs are not allowed to improve their code.
Rea
Member
I am fully aware that their engine is evolving and more optimized now even on the old hardware like ps4. Just curious what was their issues about gliding mechanics in the 1st game and ended up scraping the feature. What was evolve in their engine that now this feature is available. Can you give some insight instead of posting pointless post such as this. I would be gladly.
Ezquimacore
Banned
Rea
Member
Great post, thank you.
Miles708
Member
You can bet even more features would be available if horizon 3 would come out on ps4. Practically speaking, making a game is finding more and more clever ways to cut corners, and you become better at it the more you do it.
Don't forget they had to create an entire new graphics engine, which is absolutely no small feat. Also, in the meantime they've had a collaboration with Kojima production that surely helped them to evolve and optimize their software even more.
The simple answer is that everything is possible but also everything is difficult and requires time.
kuncol02
Banned
Btw it's not a "BOTW" thing, it's a zelda thing since almost two decades
I'm also pretty sure there are even older games with that kind of mechanic
Ezquimacore
Banned
yeah pilotwings for example lol, something based off real life has no owner.