You have to remember. MGS4 won Gaf GOTY 2008. 6 Months after it's release. The rabid hate towards it are only coming from the extremely vocal crowd, and the majority of that hate is towards the story. This is why we have our monthly MGS4 hate thread.. I dunno to make up for the fact it won Gaf GOTY.
Anyway, my point being, 6 months from now, I'm fairly certain there will be a backlash, maybe not MGS4 level, but some sort of backlash towards it.
There is already backlash because it is simply not as varied, polished or well-designed as God of War 2, in my opinion. Very awesome game, very impressive for about 30 minutes in two areas.
From the start, the team has expressed statements such as that this game will:
-Tie together and close the story of Kratos and the Greek gods.
-Feature "the very levels" based off the Titans.
-Take everything from God of War 2 and improve it.
They didn't do either of those, the only incredible improvement from God of War 2 is the combat fluidity and variety. The plot is full of holes and a very messy tie-up at the end. The only time you're even on a Titan is the first 30 minutes of the game and some point in the middle for a few minutes as well, the rest is very uninspired and generic corridor and temple gameplay. Certain aspects of the game such as puzzles, enemy and environmental variety are not as impressive as God of War 2, and there are less bosses than God of War 2 (some of which are hardly even battles).
I don't think it successfully did what they promised.
Still a great game and a must-own, but they did not fulfill its purpose entirely, in my opinion.
There is already backlash because it is simply not as varied, polished or well-designed as God of War 2, in my opinion. Very awesome game, very impressive for about 30 minutes in two areas.
It's very well polished imo. Game is gorgeous and has no performance issue.
Also, I liked the lack of variety locations-wise. It reminded me of GOW1 in terms of level-design, the locations felt more connected.
And GOW2's story was just terrible. It's basically just "ZEUS I AM GOING TO KILL YOU ONCE I FIND THE SISTERS OF FATE"
GOW3's plot is obviously flawed, but it's more consistent.
You must have missed all the bug reports in this thread.
By polished, I don't mean from a technical standpoint. As a technical standpoint, we all know it has mind-blowing graphics.
I mean polished from a gameplay standpoint. Combat is greatly improved, but everything else from the pacing, to puzzle depth and variety, to level and environmental design and variety feels off, skewed at times, and not consistent throughout the entire 8-15 hours of the game. One of the puzzles in the game is pretty neat in how it involves the player and requires some thinking, yet for the hours afterward all you do is pull levers and push pillars. There are frequent drops in the pacing and what there is to do in the environment; it's just not cohesive. Sometimes the level design is like "WHOA. That is something I've never seen before" and sometimes it's just caves and corridors in a generic looking "temple" with nothing to do except clear out enemies. God of War 2 had more of a consistency in these aspects in which the game kept trying to surprise and knock your socks off in what it was doing the more you played.
Did anyone else not like the last part of the game where you're walking around in total darkness? I mean, I wouldn't mind some of it, but God I thought it would never end. It just kept dragging on.
To be honest, the best improvement from GoW2 (and the first game, for that matter) is the absence of those infuriatingly awful segments where Kratos must turn a crank or push a box while being gangbanged from every angle.
I h-h-h-h-hated those parts of the previous games during replays, and I'm very glad that GoW3 just flows effortlessly from location to location without any irritating difficulty spikes.
You should dig in the Spoiler Thread and this thread for a little bit.
You must have missed all the bug reports in this thread.
By polished, I don't mean from a technical standpoint. As a technical standpoint, we all know it has mind-blowing graphics.
I mean polished from a gameplay standpoint. Combat is greatly improved, but everything else from the pacing, to puzzle depth and variety, to level and environmental design and variety feels off, skewed at times, and not consistent throughout the entire 8-15 hours of the game. One of the puzzles in the game is pretty neat in how it involves the player and requires some thinking, yet for the hours afterward all you do is pull levers and push pillars. There are frequent drops in the pacing and what there is to do in the environment; it's just not cohesive. Sometimes the level design is like "WHOA. That is something I've never seen before" and sometimes it's just caves and corridors in a generic looking "temple" with nothing to do except clear out enemies. God of War 2 had more of a consistency in these aspects in which the game kept trying to surprise and knock your socks off in what it was doing the more you played.
It's odd, I really don't understand what you're trying to say. GOW3 is the darkest game of the 3, I liked that. It's still impressive level-design wise, but in a different manner. Also, the puzzles were really similar than in the previous game. Some of them were really inspired I must admit (the "portal" one) Of course they were easy, but GOW's puzzles have never been hard. It's not Alundra. And about this cohesive stuff, GOW3's level design was not cohesive at all. You jumped from a location to another without any logic. In GOW3, it different places feels more connected, juste like in GOW1.
It is called nostalgia. GOW2 was not as good as they remembered. Many of the so called 'boss' fights are against humanoid sized opponents that are hardly memorable nor interesting. Moreover, the experience for them is no longer as fresh since it is already the 3rd entry in the series, so there is the issue of player fatigue.
It is the same case for the Perfect Dark or Final Fantasy 7 release on PSN. People were initially excited about playing the classic... until they actually played it
God of War 2 (and even God of War 1 in some ways) always impressed you and gave you something new to do the more you played. The puzzle variety got more intriguing, more interesting and more multi-layered the more you played. And many of them were really different. You manipulated time, you manipulated sunlight, you solved mazes, you sacrificed enemies on altars, you burned them to open doors, you protected translators, and even the simple puzzles had a "twist" to them that made them unique every time you found something similar in the game. Even
Pandora's Labyrinth
in God of War 3, for being, you know,
PANDORA'S FUCKING LABYRINTH
had puzzles and gauntlets that didn't even top the most uninspired aspects of God of War 2's puzzles and gauntlets. For being a
labyrinth
it sure required little thinking. It didn't feel as grand of a creation with its dry simplicity as the architect who slaved over making Pandora's Temple, or the long road to the Fates. Every boss fight had a unique way to defeat them and ramped up in its variety the more you played through the game. God of War 2 is built like a cake that gets sweeter the closer you get to the top in many aspects. The experience is wholly interesting throughout, and you never really feel "wow, I've done this exact same thing just a few hours ago" even in the simplest tasks or enemies, because of the combination and variety of locations, puzzles and enemies you encounter.
God of War 2's environmental variety was something you don't even see in God of War 3. Olympus is portrayed extremely blandly in God of War 3. Just a bunch of caves and the occasional temple. Realm of Hades was by far the most interesting location, in my opinion, and even it was underwhelming in just how..bland...its dark, cave look had. God of War 2 ranged from the large city of Rhodes, to the icy caverns of the Ice Titan (whom we never even saw in God of War 3 :l), to the lush tropical ruins of the Islands of the Fates, to the pits of Tartarus and the body of Atlas, to riding the skies as Pegasus, to the Steeds of Time, to the swamps of Euryale's Temple; I could go on and on.
God of War 3's environmental variety is lacking, and the backtracking to the familiar locales you visit is extremely inorganic and unnatural with the use of portals. God of War 2 had an ingenious design in which you would find yourself in an area you previously visited with something new to do, and you never really unnaturally expected it, but neither did you arrive back where you started in a way that felt like "backtracking". The world was just designed very tightly and connected. In God of War 3, it feels pretty cheap that they just warp you to where you need to go.
I could go on, but I think you get my point.
GOW2 was not as good as they remembered. Many of the so called 'boss' fights are against humanoid sized opponents that are hardly memorable nor interesting. Moreover, the experience for them is no longer as fresh since it is already the 3rd entry in the series, so there is the issue of player fatigue.
I played all 3 God of War games back-to-back for the first time in my life in the span of two weeks; I am not blinded by nostalgia.
Really? Fighting the invisible Perseus and impaling him on a hook, fighting the very dead figure that catalyzed the entire plotline of the God of War series and his army of the dead, smashing a warrior's face inside of a door, fighting the most interesting Krakken I've seen in video games for years, battling an opponent in a dark room with nothing but silhouettes to guide you, trapping the rulers of fate and destiny in a dimension between space and time by manipulating time itself, and then killing the last sister of fate by trapping her by her own loom's instruments count as not memorable or interesting to you? How about fighting a gigantic Gorgon Sister? Or I don't know, destroying Icarus as you both plummet to earth? Killing the Colossus of Rhodes? You must just not like good boss fights.
I'm very glad that GoW3 just flows effortlessly from location to location without any irritating difficulty spikes.
See second part : gamer fatigue. In any case, you can stop trying to objectify a subjective matter. Fact of the matter is, many people enjoyed GOW3 more than GOW2, so your arguments about how GOW2 is better is essentially moot anyway.
And GOW2's story was just terrible. It's basically just "ZEUS I AM GOING TO KILL YOU ONCE I FIND THE SISTERS OF FATE"
GOW3's plot is obviously flawed, but it's more consistent.
Atleast in II he has a clear goal and a clear reason for doing so. Why exactly does he go after the flame of olympus in the first place? I know he wants the power, but it starts off acting like he NEEDS it to kill Zeus, when he nearly killed him in II already. They just needed something for Kratos to do for the game to actually have a plot that wasn't just "kill zeus".
Really? Fighting the invisible Perseus and impaling him on a hook, fighting the very dead figure that catalyzed the entire plotline of the God of War series and his army of the dead, smashing a warrior's face inside of a door, fighting the most interesting Krakken I've seen in video games for years, battling an opponent in a dark room with nothing but silhouettes to guide you, trapping the rulers of fate and destiny in a dimension between space and time by manipulating time itself, and then killing the last sister of fate by trapping her by her own loom's instruments count as not memorable or interesting to you? How about fighting a gigantic Gorgon Sister? Or I don't know, destroying Icarus as you both plummet to earth? Killing the Colossus of Rhodes? You must just not like good boss fights.
I agree with everything. But you do realize that the same could be told about GOW3 ? Except from the lame scorpion, the game is just filled with amazing bossfights.
See second part : gamer fatigue. In any case, you can stop trying to objectify a subjective matter. Fact of the matter is, many people enjoyed GOW3 more than GOW2, so your arguments about how GOW2 is better is essentially moot anyway.
In that case this whole fucking forum is moot because all we do is discuss video games and which ones we think are better for what reasons. It's all subjective, of course, but you discrediting my validity simply because a lot of people think God of War 3 is an orgasm sandwich is absolutely ridiculous. The reason I backed up my statements in what you might consider an "objective" manner is because raziel posted:
i really dont get what these things are about gow2 that people talk about thats so much better than gow3. gow3 seems objectively better in every way.
I agree with everything. But you do realize that the same could be told about GOW3 ? Except from the lame scorpion, the game is just filled with amazing bossfights.
This is true. My feeling, however, is just that there are fewer than God of War 2, and not even all of them are truly "fights", and the very best ones are piled up at the beginning-to-middle of the game, while God of War 2 seemed like its varied and awesome boss fights were sprinkled around the course of the entire experience.
God of War 2 (and even God of War 1 in some ways) always impressed you and gave you something new to do the more you played. The puzzle variety got more intriguing, more interesting and more multi-layered the more you played. And many of them were really different. You manipulated time, you manipulated sunlight, you solved mazes, you sacrificed enemies on altars, you burned them to open doors, you protected translators, and even the simple puzzles had a "twist" to them that made them unique every time you found something similar in the game. Even
Pandora's Labyrinth
in God of War 3, for being, you know,
PANDORA'S FUCKING LABYRINTH
had puzzles and gauntlets that didn't even top the most uninspired aspects of God of War 2's puzzles and gauntlets. For being a
labyrinth
it sure required little thinking. It didn't feel as grand of a creation with its dry simplicity as the architect who slaved over making Pandora's Temple, or the long road to the Fates. Every boss fight had a unique way to defeat them and ramped up in its variety the more you played through the game. God of War 2 is built like a cake that gets sweeter the closer you get to the top in many aspects. The experience is wholly interesting throughout, and you never really feel "wow, I've done this exact same thing just a few hours ago" even in the simplest tasks or enemies, because of the combination and variety of locations, puzzles and enemies you encounter.
God of War 2's environmental variety was something you don't even see in God of War 3. Olympus is portrayed extremely blandly in God of War 3. Just a bunch of caves and the occasional temple. Realm of Hades was by far the most interesting location, in my opinion, and even it was underwhelming in just how..bland...its dark, cave look had. God of War 2 ranged from the large city of Rhodes, to the icy caverns of the Ice Titan (whom we never even saw in God of War 3 :l), to the lush tropical ruins of the Islands of the Fates, to the pits of Tartarus and the body of Atlas, to riding the skies as Pegasus, to the Steeds of Time, to the swamps of Euryale's Temple; I could go on and on.
God of War 3's environmental variety is lacking, and the backtracking to the familiar locales you visit is extremely inorganic and unnatural with the use of portals. God of War 2 had an ingenious design in which you would find yourself in an area you previously visited with something new to do, and you never really unnaturally expected it, but neither did you arrive back where you started in a way that felt like "backtracking". The world was just designed very tightly and connected. In God of War 3, it feels pretty cheap that they just warp you to where you need to go.
you see, but this is all largely subjective/preference. i understand that someone may prefer gow2 to gow 3, but objectively gow3 seems better.
gow2 always impressed you? gow3 always impressed me, much more than either of the previous games in fact.
the puzzle variety between the 2 games didnt seem much different. in both games you had a handful of truly novel/ingenious puzzles filled out with the typical box pushing and crank turning.
environmental variety is maybe the one thing that gow2 has over gow3, but not by much. in gow3, you have the titans (which are environments unto themselves), the underworld, the city of olympia, the labyrinth, and all the obligatory caves and temples. if gow2 has more environments, its not that much more.
and boss fights.. dont even seem like a contest. the fact that you actually get to take down the other gods of olympus (whereas in the previous games you only fought one god per game, at the end) is already a much more fun concept for boss fights. add in the sheer spectacle of the bosses here..and yeah, doesnt seem like much of a contest.
Way to miss the point in your blind crusade against GoW3.
When I said there were no 'spikes' I was referring to normal difficulty, which is, you know, the normal default difficulty which the game was designed around.
I have played Titan mode and certain portions are ridiculously difficult (yes, "spikes") but that is because altering the health / damage / AI and other characteristics makes an enormous difference to the basic game. On the normal difficulty, GoW3 is smooth and has a perfect learning curve, with NONE of the stupid, aggravating puzzles or segments where you have to turn cranks while being raped, which always just felt like annoying little difficulty humps which got in the way of the adventure.
This is crazy. Something can't be objectively better, especially when you compare quantity. It's all subjective. Please don't say something is "objectively better", that's why I called you out in the first place.
When I said there were no 'spikes' I was referring to normal difficulty, which is, you know, the normal default difficulty which the game was designed around.
I played all three games on Hard Mode in my first run-through, so whatever.
On the normal difficulty, GoW3 is smooth and has a perfect learning curve, with NONE of the stupid, aggravating puzzles or segments where you have to turn cranks while being raped, which always just felt like annoying little difficulty humps which got in the way of the adventure.
I got through them just fine on Hard Mode in every single one of the games, so lol. They were not the best-designed aspect or my favorite aspect whatsoever, but they weren't as difficult as some of the mindnumbingly frustrating segments of difficulty spikes in God of War 3.
the puzzle variety between the 2 games didnt seem much different. in both games you had a handful of truly novel/ingenious puzzles filled out with the typical box pushing and crank turning.
Name five, unique, well-designed, multi-layered puzzle segments from God of War 3.
I can think of two...maybe three at best in my 17 hours of playthrough.
and boss fights.. dont even seem like a contest. the fact that you actually get to take down the other gods of olympus (whereas in the previous games you only fought one god per game, at the end) is already a much more fun concept for boss fights. add in the sheer spectacle of the bosses here..and yeah, doesnt seem like much of a contest.
I wouldn't argue this if it wasn't for the fact that the placement of boss fights is skewed in quality towards the beginning of the game, and as you reach the end they get less interesting, fun or unique. The other problem is that at least two of the boss fights were a wasted potential that really saddened me to see how little they did with it
Helios is a total letdown. Hermes was very quick and had more potential as an actual "fight". The fire Titan....just lol. The scorpion felt like it was randomly thrown in. Zeus was very difficult, which is fine, but the ending felt underwhelming as you fight clones of him in Gaia's heart? :l
you didnt call me out. i was the one who sort of asked how gow2 was better.
Cookie for you. The normal difficulty is perfectly tuned, but more importantly, the game is designed and playtested to the Nth degree to ensure that there are no bullshit roadblock segments which impede you and are simply not fun (fiery phoenix room in GoW2, pushing the sacrifice cage uphill in Gow1, the stupid-ass translator in GoW2, the turning the crank in tartarus bullshit in GoW2...etc).
GoW3 just flowed from beginning to end.
You really ought to just quit your day job and go and become Cory Barlog's 'Yes Man.' The funny thing is, I actually agree with you that, in the final analysis, God of War 2 is superior to GoW3 (albeit only slightly to me). It's just that you are so nitpicky that it beggars belief. So what if we didn't see Typhon (ice titan) in GoW3? Big fucking deal!
This is crazy. Something can't be objectively better, especially when you compare quantity. It's all subjective. Please don't say something is "objectively better", that's why I called you out in the first place.
you didnt call me out. i was the one who sort of asked how gow2 was better.
all im saying is that all the core things that make gow great seem be better in gow3 - graphics, brutality, combat, set-pieces, boss fights - and by quite a lot. and in other areas like puzzles and environmental variety, it largely keeps pace with the previous games.
Cookie for you. The normal difficulty is perfectly tuned, but more importantly, the game is designed and playtested to the Nth degree to ensure that there are no bullshit roadblock segments which impede you and are simply not fun (fiery phoenix room in GoW2, pushing the sacrifice cage uphill in Gow1, the stupid-ass translator in GoW2, the turning the crank in tartarus bullshit in GoW2...etc).
GoW3 just flowed from beginning to end.
You really ought to just quit your day job and go and become Cory Barlog's 'Yes Man.' The funny thing is, I actually agree with you that, in the final analysis, God of War 2 is superior to GoW3 (albeit only slightly to me). It's just that you are so nitpicky that it beggars belief. So what if we didn't see Typhon (ice titan) in GoW3? Big fucking deal!
Was any of that stuff truly hard on normal, though? Translator was the most aggravating part of II, but it wasn't even remotely difficult from what I remember on normal. I do agree it's annoying to get attacked while turning cranks and such, but it doesn't make it hard until you die in 3 hits.
I don't think he's really nitpicking, either. Stuff like Typhon and Atlas not having a role at all feels incredibly weird when the game was hyping up the Titans fighting the Gods, yet you see 2 important titans and the rest are all generically styled and barely ever seen. It's certainly not what I expected on that end.
Cookie for you. The normal difficulty is perfectly tuned, but more importantly, the game is designed and playtested to the Nth degree to ensure that there are no bullshit roadblock segments which impede you and are simply not fun (fiery phoenix room in GoW2, pushing the sacrifice cage uphill in Gow1, the stupid-ass translator in GoW2, the turning the crank in tartarus bullshit in GoW2...etc).
Hard Mode in God of War 2 was "designed and playtested to the Nth degree". All of the difficulty levels seemed to be.
Then surely the amount of difficulty spikes and inconsistency in flow and pacing in the Hard Mode in God of War 3 is a flaw in its general design.
You really ought to just quit your day job and go and become Cory Barlog's 'Yes Man.' The funny thing is, I actually agree with you that, in the final analysis, God of War 2 is superior to GoW3 (albeit only slightly to me). It's just that you are so nitpicky that it beggars belief. So what if we didn't see Typhon (ice titan) in GoW3? Big fucking deal!
It's always funny to see how people can't take a conflicting opinion without declaring an ass kisser to the opposing side.
I'm detailed in my criticism because I was basically asked why I think the way I do. If I didn't, I wouldn't be true to my opinion if I simply said "I didn't like this as much as this" and didn't explain why.
i really dont get what these things are about gow2 that people talk about thats so much better than gow3.
The reason why it's significant we didn't see the Ice Titan is because Gaia told us to go wake him up in God of War 2 to prepare him. Prepare him for what? He wasn't even in the third game. That was pointless.
Translator was the most aggravating part of II, but it wasn't even remotely difficult from what I remember on normal. I do agree it's annoying to get attacked while turning cranks and such, but it doesn't make it hard until you die in 3 hits.
Was any of that stuff truly hard on normal, though? Translator was the most aggravating part of II, but it wasn't even remotely difficult from what I remember on normal. I do agree it's annoying to get attacked while turning cranks and such, but it doesn't make it hard until you die in 3 hits.
I don't think he's really nitpicking, either. Stuff like Typhon and Atlas not having a role at all feels incredibly weird when the game was hyping up the Titans fighting the Gods, yet you see 2 important titans and the rest are all generically styled and barely ever seen. It's certainly not what I expected on that end.
I take the point. Sure, none of it was that hard, but it sure as heck was not fun. It was just annoying and frustrating and I'm glad GoW3 rectified that.
As for the titans, I agree that more could have been done with them. You see, I agree that GoW2 is the better game but Dog has this fanatical, zealot-thing going on re: GoW2. I actually agree that GoW3 was not everthing it could have been, but by golly I'm not going to pick it apart in post after post. I mean, for fuck's sake, make the point and move on.
I take the point. Sure, none of it was that hard, but it sure as heck was not fun. It was just annoying and frustrating and I'm glad GoW3 rectified that.
As for the titans, I agree that more could have been done with them. You see, I agree that GoW2 is the better game but Dog has this fanatical, zealot-thing going on re: GoW2. I actually agree that GoW3 was not everthing it could have been, but by golly I'm not going to pick it apart in post after post. I mean, for fuck's sake, make the point and move on.
This was the first time I truly "picked apart" my opinion, why I feel that way, and examples from both games to support it in this thread. I figured it was overdue since I was asked why I believed such. Can you understand that?
I'm not a fanatical zealout. I'm very critical of every game I play, regardless of whether it's taboo against the majority opinion or not. I'm blunt.
I don't have any personal vendetta or anything against the team of any of the games I play or their design decisions or anything like that. I'm just very thorough and blunt with what I think, and I often compare games in series. Don't take it personally. It's just how I enjoy discussing games.
I also think deep, discussion about the things I like is interesting and I don't feel it should personally upset anyone. It's just healthy discussion.
I can discuss on and on about why I liked Metal Gear Solid 3 infinitely better than Metal Gear Solid 2, or why there's a lot I didn't like about Pokemon Gold and Silver, or how Uncharted 1 has an atmosphere and feeling I enjoyed more than Uncharted 2, or how Kingdom Hearts 1 was infinitely more enjoyable than Kingdom Hearts 2, or how I really liked Majora's Mask and Starfox Adventures, and how I really didn't like Modern Warfare 2 compared to Modern Warfare 1, or how Twilight Princess was a disappointment for the series, etc. Don't feel like I'm in a "crusade" against "God of War".
i cant name 5, but neither can i for gow2. the only really stand-out/memorable ones in 3 i can think of are the portal-esque puzzles and the gardens. ask most people to comment on gow2's puzzles, and theyll usually only fire back with the corpse-floating one. maybe a time/prince of persia related one as well.
Dogenzaka said:
Oh but I did. You said God of War 3 was objectively better in every way. That was a statement I called you out on in my next post.
erm, okay, so you called me out by responding to a question i asked. you still didnt provide much to back it up though. puzzle and environmental variety - your 2 biggest points - are pretty much even.
This was the first time I truly "picked apart" my opinion, why I feel that way, and examples from both games to support it in this thread. I figured it was overdue since I was asked why I believed such. Can you understand that?
I'm not a fanatical zealout. I'm very critical of every game I play, regardless of whether it's taboo against the majority opinion or not. I'm blunt.
I don't have any personal vendetta or anything against the team of any of the games I play or their design decisions or anything like that. I'm just very thorough and blunt with what I think, and I often compare games in series. Don't take it personally. It's just how I enjoy discussing games.
I also think deep, discussion about the things I like is interesting and I don't feel it should personally upset anyone. It's just healthy discussion.
I can discuss on and on about why I liked Metal Gear Solid 3 infinitely better than Metal Gear Solid 2, or why there's a lot I didn't like about Pokemon Gold and Silver, or how Uncharted 1 has an atmosphere and feeling I enjoyed more than Uncharted 2, or how Kingdom Hearts 1 was infinitely more enjoyable than Kingdom Hearts 2, or how I really liked Majora's Mask and Starfox Adventures, and how I really didn't like Modern Warfare 2 compared to Modern Warfare 1, or how Twilight Princess was a disappointment for the series, etc. Don't feel like I'm in a "crusade" against "God of War".
i cant name 5, but neither can i for gow2. the only really stand-out/memorable ones in 3 i can think of are the portal-esque puzzles and the gardens. ask most people here to comment on the gow2 puzzles, and theyll usually only fire back with the corpse-floating one. maybe a time/prince of persia related one as well.
I can name five..actually seven that I really enjoyed for God of War 2.
1 - Using time to save the Translator from taking his own life (and then finding the secret chest). Even using time to cross vine bridges.
2 - Solving the maze by defeating each enemy.
3 - Using shields from pillars you acquired to keep eyebeams from building a forcefield.
4 - Helping the Phoenix Egg reach the fire.
5 - Trapping Clothos by her own loom's instruments.
6 - Using human bodies to break a conveyer belt (just awesome). Also, dropping a human body in a sewer to have it float back on the other side. Actually, most of the puzzles that involved a second-element such as blood/fire sacrifices or bodies.
7 - Redirecting sunlight to melt ice.
I also really enjoyed Atlas and the lava segments...but that's just me.
I was also disappointed how they didn't use the Golden Fleece in puzzles in God of War 3 as much as in 2.
Unrelated to puzzles, but I thought the most awesome thing about God of War 2 was how they integrated all the people you meet in the game as competing with you for the same goal, and for good reason, or they just plain had beef with you that was serious. Icarus wanted to find his father, I suppose, the Barbarian wanted to change time to have you killed, Perseus wanted to save his love, Euryale HATED you for killing her sister, you imprisoned Atlas, of course he'll hate you, etc.
erm, okay, so you called me out by respeonding to a question i asked. you still didnt provide much to back it up though. puzzle and environmental variety - your 2 biggest points - are pretty much even.
I more called you out for calling something "objectively" better.
Pretty much even?
I pointed out some puzzles in God of War 2 that I found quite interesting.
But environmental variety, really?
In God of War 3 you
Visit the Realm of Hades (which is generically modeled as dark caves...the only interesting level design was the Three Judges whom were actually quite simplistic and didn't come into play until after you got the Cestus), Hera's Garden, and the rest was really just icy, dark caves, mountain-side carvings and temple corridors. It only truly felt like you were "oustide" when you were chasing Hermes.
In God of War 2, you had the icy cliffs of the Ice Titan, the City of Rhodes, the skies riding as Pegasus, the Steeds of Time, the lush jungle temples of the Islands of the Fates, the underground magma lair of the Phoenix, the swamps of Euryale's Temple, the desolate gap between the Temple of the Fates and the Island, the very body of Atlas in Tartarus, fountains and springs such as where you fight Perseus, the looms of the Temple of the Fates, and then fighting back in Athens where you defeated Ares, and even frigidly cold areas on the Island such as the place with the light/fire puzzle. There is a lot of variety, and even the "templey" areas were designed significantly different in layout and aesthetic to distinguish it, in my opinion.
How come The Pit of Tatarus looks sooooooooooo damn good? It makes the whole rest of the game look so bleh.
I can name five..actually seven that I really enjoyed for God of War 2.
1 - Using time to save the Translator from taking his own life (and then finding the secret chest). Even using time to cross vine bridges.
2 - Solving the maze by defeating each enemy.
3 - Using shields from pillars you acquired to keep eyebeams from building a forcefield.
4 - Helping the Phoenix Egg reach the fire.
5 - Trapping Clothos by her own loom's instruments.
6 - Using human bodies to break a conveyer belt (just awesome). Also, dropping a human body in a sewer to have it float back on the other side. Actually, most of the puzzles that involved a second-element such as blood/fire sacrifices or bodies.
7 - Redirecting sunlight to melt ice.
I also really enjoyed Atlas and the lava segments...but that's just me.
I was also disappointed how they didn't use the Golden Fleece in puzzles in God of War 3 as much as in 2.
Unrelated to puzzles, but I thought the most awesome thing about God of War 2 was how they integrated all the people you meet in the game as competing with you for the same goal, and for good reason, or they just plain had beef with you that was serious. Icarus wanted to find his father, I suppose, the Barbarian wanted to change time to have you killed, Perseus wanted to save his love, Euryale HATED you for killing her sister, you imprisoned Atlas, of course he'll hate you, etc.
I more called you out for calling something "objectively" better.
Pretty much even?
I pointed out some puzzles in God of War 2 that I found quite interesting.
But environmental variety, really?
In God of War 3 you
Visit the Realm of Hades (which is generically modeled as dark caves...the only interesting level design was the Three Judges whom were actually quite simplistic and didn't come into play until after you got the Cestus), Hera's Garden, and the rest was really just icy, dark caves, mountain-side carvings and temple corridors. It only truly felt like you were "oustide" when you were chasing Hermes.
In God of War 2, you had the icy cliffs of the Ice Titan, the City of Rhodes, the skies riding as Pegasus, the Steeds of Time, the lush jungle temples of the Islands of the Fates, the underground magma lair of the Phoenix, the swamps of Euryale's Temple, the desolate gap between the Temple of the Fates and the Island, the very body of Atlas in Tartarus, fountains and springs such as where you fight Perseus, the looms of the Temple of the Fates, and then fighting back in Athens where you defeated Ares, and even frigidly cold areas on the Island such as the place with the light/fire puzzle. There is a lot of variety, and even the "templey" areas were designed significantly different in layout and aesthetic to distinguish it, in my opinion.
OH I KNOW I was staring at it for a good 5 minutes when I first arrived. So beautiful.
I think it's unfair to compare the two for two reasons:
1. The whole point of the 3rd game is to scale Mt. Olympus and defeat Zeus. This alone limits what you can do with the game. Where as the 2nd game is a huge adventure to find the islands of Fate. Plus, you know, the whole end of the world thing going on making the game dark...
2. That was their second game on the PS2, meaning they had a lot more time to spend on environments and not as much on technology, where as the opposite is true with God of war III.
I'm with Dogenzaka, I just finished GoW3 and for me GoW2 is the best game in the franchise by at least one full grade/point/whatever.
I think GOW2 has better level design, better story (ends on a stronger note especially; I liked GoW3's story until the last 30% of the game where it falls apart), better bosses.
I think the puzzles are about even between the two. Both have simple but good puzzles. The combat is better in 3. The art is amazing in 3 and amazing in 2 so hard to give the edge either way.
I think if you play GoW for the action/combat, GoW3 is hands down the best game in the series. If you play for the exploration of cool areas and greek mythos lore, GoW2 is the best.
I think it's unfair to compare the two for two reasons:
1. The whole point of the 3rd game is to scale Mt. Olympus and defeat Zeus. This alone limits what you can do with the game. Where as the 2nd game is a huge adventure to find the islands of Fate. Plus, you know, the whole end of the world thing going on making the game dark...
2. That was their second game on the PS2, meaning they had a lot more time to spend on environments and not as much on technology, where as the opposite is true with God of war III.
I've acknowledged before that there were clearly differences in the development of the two games. God of War 2 had Cory Barlog, God of War 3 didn't. God of War 3 required the building of an entirely new engine, God of War 2 didn't. Etc., etc. I understand that. That's fine. But when I compare the two games, I'm simply comparing them for what they are and what's there regardless of the differences. Just sayin'. It's like how, regardless of the fact that God of War: Chains of Olympus is a PSP game, that doesn't keep me from criticizing its very short playtime.
I disagree that the game was limited because of scaling Mt. Olympus and tracking Zeus. We saw some of the towns and areas in God of War 3's opening. They could have been interesting cities to explore, yet we didn't get to because
Poseidon flooded them in the first half hour
. Even if we got to explore them as "Atlantis", it would have been interesting (since that was cut out of God of War 2 towards the end of development, and they were pretty disappointed about that).
But even ignoring that, Olympus had a lot of potential. You saw it kind of explored in the Realm of Hades and Hera's Garden, but there was still a lot they could have done with it besides generic caves and temple corridors. The
Grave of Ares
even could have turned out to be a fairly large, frigid area for enemies and puzzles. Olympus should have been the epitome of everything we've seen in the series thus far, it is after all, the home of the gods. It's odd that it was actually not as unique or interesting as the Island of the Fates or Athens/Pandora's Temple, in my opinion.
I can name five..actually seven that I really enjoyed for God of War 2.
1 - Using time to save the Translator from taking his own life (and then finding the secret chest). Even using time to cross vine bridges.
2 - Solving the maze by defeating each enemy.
3 - Using shields from pillars you acquired to keep eyebeams from building a forcefield.
4 - Helping the Phoenix Egg reach the fire.
5 - Trapping Clothos by her own loom's instruments.
6 - Using human bodies to break a conveyer belt (just awesome). Also, dropping a human body in a sewer to have it float back on the other side. Actually, most of the puzzles that involved a second-element such as blood/fire sacrifices or bodies.
7 - Redirecting sunlight to melt ice.
I also really enjoyed Atlas and the lava segments...but that's just me.
I was also disappointed how they didn't use the Golden Fleece in puzzles in God of War 3 as much as in 2.
yes, i ventured a guess you could name 5 and upwards 10, because you are a fan of gow2. my point is, for most people, many of these were not as novel or extraordinary as you thought they were - they were just good, fun puzzles for most but nothing really really memorable. again, years later, most only recall the corpse-floating one.
Dogenzaka said:
I more called you out for calling something "objectively" better.
i said i didnt get how gow2 was better and that gow3 seemed objectively better. if anything, i was sort of calling out someone to lay down why gow2 was supposedly better.
Dogenzaka said:
Pretty much even?
I pointed out some puzzles in God of War 2 that I found quite interesting.
But environmental variety, really?
In God of War 3 you
Visit the Realm of Hades (which is generically modeled as dark caves...the only interesting level design was the Three Judges whom were actually quite simplistic and didn't come into play until after you got the Cestus), Hera's Garden, and the rest was really just dark caves, mountain-side carvings and temple corridors. It only truly felt like you were "oustide" when you were chasing Hermes.
In God of War 2, you had the icy cliffs of the Ice Titan, the City of Rhodes, the skies riding as Pegasus, the Steeds of Time, the lush jungle temples of the Islands of the Fates, the underground magma lair of the Phoenix, the swamps of Euryale's Temple, the desolate gap between the Temple of the Fates and the Island, the very body of Atlas, fountains and springs such as where you fight Perseus, the looms of the Temple of the Fates, and then fighting back in Athens where you defeated Ares, and even frigidly cold areas on the Island such as the place with the light/fire puzzle. There is a lot of variety, and even the "templey" areas were designed significantly different in layout and aesthetic to distinguish it, in my opinion.
OH I KNOW I was staring at it for a good 5 minutes when I first arrived. So beautiful.
okay, you left out a few areas in gow3 and grouped them into large sweeping categories like 'temples' and 'caves' while enumerating each in gow2 separately. you also padded out gow2's with things like the 'skies' during the pegasus flight (do the 'vents' count during the flight segments in gow3 as environments?) and with individual rooms like the perseus boss arena. even then, i already conceded that gow2 may have better variety in environments than 3.
whichever you preferred though, gow3 DID provide quite a few different environments as well as puzzles. again you just preferred the environments in 2 and many of the puzzles in 2 struck a chord with you.
in gow2,
the only real stand-out puzzle i remember as being particular novel was the corpse floating one. the others were very good, but not exactly etched in my memory after the fact.
the only real stand-out environment i remember was the steeds. the 'lush jungle temples of the fates islands'? not so much for me. not sure if i even remember it.
Dog,
I'm curious...on a 1 to 10(or w/e scale you prefer), what would you rate 1,2, and 3. Cause the tone(even if its unintentional) and length of your posts make it sound like you hate 3...and anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.
okay, you left out a few areas in gow3 and grouped them into large sweeping categories like 'temples' and 'caves' while enumerating each in gow2 separately. you also padded out gow2's with things like the 'skies' during the pegasus flight (do the 'vents' count during the flight segments in gow3 as environments?) and with individual rooms like the perseus boss arena. even then, i already conceded that gow2 may have better variety in environments than 3.
I was "sweeping" because I played the game less than a week ago and I can't honestly remember more specific, unique areas than what I mentioned. Oh right,
I guess I forgot Pandora's Labyrinth, but for the thing it is, it was pretty squandered potential
.
Could you please name some things for once?
in gow2,
the only real stand-out puzzle i remember as being particular novel was the corpse floating one. the others were very good, but not exactly etched in my memory after the fact.
the only real stand-out environment i remember was the steeds. the 'lush jungle temples of the fates islands'? not so much for me. not sure if i even remember it.
Dog,
I'm curious...on a 1 to 10(or w/e scale you prefer), what would you rate 1,2, and 3. Cause the tone(even if its unintentional) and length of your posts make it sound like you hate 3...and anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.
I guess it's the problem with converting thoughts into keyboard typing, but I don't "hate" God of War 3. Disappointed, sure, but I still am glad I bought it.
It's not that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, I just wanted to explain thoroughly why I feel the way I do.
I'd rate God of War 2, as a single-player game looking at it for what it is, probably a 9.7/10. I'd give God of War 1 a 9/10, and God of War 3 and an 8.6/10. Just me though! And that's higher than I would give many other games.
If you prefer without decimals....9, 9, and 8.
Then of course if we look at graphics, God of War 3 takes a Titan-sized dump on every other game, obviously. Lol.
I was "sweeping" because I played the game less than a week ago and I can't honestly remember more specific, unique areas than what I mentioned. Oh right,
I guess I forgot Pandora's Labyrinth, but for the thing it is, it was pretty squandered potential
i named some environments in my first response to you.. "the titans (which are environments unto themselves), the underworld, the city of olympia, the labyrinth, and all the obligatory caves and temples. if gow2 has more environments, its not that much more." i didnt pad them out with things like tartarus or the forum though..
im just giving you a sort of 'layman' point of view of the games. to me the puzzle and environmental variety in gow2 and gow3 is largely even. gow2 has slightly more (it is a slightly longer game) but the breakdown is pretty much the same - each game has a handful of stand-out puzzles/environments filled out with the more standard stuff.
im just not seeing the HUGE gap in puzzle/environmental variety that some are trying to push. now, the gap between the spectacle of the set-pieces/boss battles - for example, the opening hydra boss in gow1 or the opening colossus boss in gow2 compared with the opening poseidon fight in gow3 - THAT is a gap i see as huge.
i named some environments in my first response to you.. "the titans (which are environments unto themselves), the underworld, the city of olympia, the labyrinth, and all the obligatory caves and temples. if gow2 has more environments, its not that much more." i didnt pad them out with things like tartarus or the forum though..
Gaia, and Cronos as a short boss fight. Hardly the "entire levels" they advertised last year.
. Olympia ended up just being a central room with pretty bland temple corridors. I already mentioned the
Labyrinth
, and the boring caves and temples. That's still not that much, if you count out what I listed in God of War 2, I'd say. And even then, the ones in God of War 3 are not as intricately designed if you ask me (Olympia's dark caves and temples....and the shallow Labyrinth). You were in
Tartarus for one boss fight and that's all you saw of it.
im just not seeing the HUGE gap in puzzle/environmental variety that some are trying to push. now, the gap between the spectacle of the set-pieces/boss battles - for example, the opening hydra boss in gow1 or the opening colossus boss in gow2 compared with the opening poseidon fight in gow3 - THAT is a gap i see as huge.
i'm back at this game after beating ff13, and i last left off at
hades
(the second major boss), and i gotta say i kinda think this is a bit disappointing. the feedback feels very weak compared to previous gow's. i can't really tell when i'm hitting, when i'm not hitting, when i'm getting hit, and when i'm not getting hit. the life bar is so small that you can't really even see clearly when you lose energy. and often the camera is zoomed out so far i'm this tiny little dude playing on a huge field and i can't see what i'm really doing.
also, i got to the 4th stage of said boss, and some miniscule text (on my 60 inch tv) came up saying something that i couldn't read because the camera was zooming all over and something was going on with the boss, and then he dragged me into a river and i have no idea wtf i did wrong, but i guess i'll have to do it all over again and hope i figure it out this time. not exactly a shining example of game play design.
edit: alright it let me start from that last bit so i'm a little less bitter. i still think the hits feel weak. maybe it's because i'm using a non rumble controller?
man i must be getting old and losing my eyesight. i really just can't see what's going on in this game like i could in the first 3. you'd think hidef and big screens would make it clearer.
Now, I know God of War 3 is not everyone's cup of tea, but if you really thought that the QTE's or the dialogue, or voice overs were going to be any different than 1 or 2, then your a fool.
and if you really think the boss fights, the lighting, the level design, the "game" and environments were all bad, then you need to just stop playing video games.
I Can get not liking the gameplay or story, but the other stuff is just stupid. God of war III had some of the best lighting ever for a console video game.
And of course the game is going to be dark, its the end of the world and
This goes with every sequel. This kind of thing happens when people let the hype drive them. I a GOW fan loved the third installment as I love the first 2.
What a terrible, terrible ending to a great series. I was sort of wary of the third game from a story standpoint anyway given how stupid the end of 2 was (WAIT FOR THE SEQUEL), but when Athena showed up and seemed unbothered by me murdering her, I knew I was in for a grand ride. I especially liked Hephaestus acting as an in-game retcon generator. Pandora was terrible. Ending was jrpg sloppy.
Path of Eos ? I could get the game to freeze everytime by having a certain item equipped and falling off a ledge. It was a total lockup and becomes unresponsive. I had to hold the power button to reboot the PS3. In this case, it's got to be a bug.
