omg..this explains everything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZa...d=XyNh1j3dsp8&annotation_id=annotation_575083
Lmao wtf....
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Going Clear |OT| Book/Documentary on the Church of Scientology
- Thread starter BertramCooper
- Start date
- Status
omg..this explains everything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZa...d=XyNh1j3dsp8&annotation_id=annotation_575083
Lmao wtf....
Sadly I don't think this would even harm them at this point.
I'd rather see them completely destroyed then pay some percentage of all that money.
Main dude needs to be in jail not taxed.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
After watching this it makes me wonder if Cruise is all in on the coolaid or if this just feeds into his ego. Possibly both. This among many more questions. Seeing a Scientology building is like some creepy monolithic structure now.
BertramCooper
Banned
Cruise is definitely all-in. He's extremely high up in the church hierarchy - far beyond being Miscavige's patsy. He's complicit in all of this nonsense.
He's around 5'5. When you google his name, there is some blurb that pops up on the side that says 5'1, but it's incorrect. Most places and people say he's around 5'5 which matches up to the pictures with him and Tom Cruise.
interactivemonodrama
Banned
Someone is going to sue someone?
Amirite?
Amirite?
BertramCooper
Banned
The 5'1" figure comes from his former tailor.
Based on these photos it looks about right.
Cruise is 5'7". Miscavige is clearly more than two inches shorter than Cruise.
BertramCooper
Banned
If Miscavige is 5'5", then Cruise is at least 5'9".
Which he definitely isn't.
Which he definitely isn't.
Schrade
Member
Cruise wears booster heels.
BertramCooper
Banned
Wouldn't be surprised if Miscavige does, too.
Damn it, if Danny DeVito were a Scientologist we'd know for sure!
Billions in back taxes. I agree he should be in jail. But it's a start.
Yeah, and Arnold Schwarzenegger is 6'2" lol
marimorimo
Member
Wha-?? I didn't even know you had to be in an exclusive club to get prime info on Xenu. And the guy who gave the book to me said nothing about pneumonia, but he did say it would be "so enlightening you might have some physical symptoms, like a cold." Obviously nothing of the sort happened, and at the time I didn't think he was serious.
Unfortunately I can't even prove I have the book because it's somewhere back home, in another country. What I do remember was that it was a hardcover with an eighties/seventies-art on the cover. I enjoyed it as an SF book talking about these beings from millions of years ago until Xenu showed up and there was some volcano or other and I started skipping pages because it was all too confusing for me.
As I said, the guys I was with were pretty nice people and they even said "we're not a religion" (even though their sign said "Church of Scientology"). They weren't as organized yet because they were just starting out so they were probably just happy to have me as "new blood" to welcome to the fold. They even entrusted me to translate a Scientology book to our native language but I never got that done because I was too busy enjoying life abroad. I was a college student when this happened.
The Last Wizard
Member
Thanks for bumping this thread,I was ready to watch on the original date and didn't know it got pushed back so I completely forgot. Will watch and might read the book.
Just finished the doc. Anyone pick up that the woman in this video is one of the ex wives interviewed by Anderson Cooper?
brianmcdoogle
Member
I've nearly devoured the book this week. Honestly, it's going to be hard to see Cruise in a movie again.
And the entire book is difficult to read. It's so depressing an tough. I can't get very far before getting so angry and frustrated at everything.
How do these people get away with it? I just don't get it.
And the entire book is difficult to read. It's so depressing an tough. I can't get very far before getting so angry and frustrated at everything.
How do these people get away with it? I just don't get it.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
I finally saw this documentary. It's absolutely heart wrenching. It's a shame the organization is allowed to act that way. I hope the whole thing falls apart in my lifetime.
BertramCooper
Banned
I'll never see a Tom Cruise movie in theaters as long as he's involved in Scientology.
And while I can't completely avoid putting at least a small fraction of my money in Cruise's pocket, since I subscribe to services like HBO and Netflix and he'll inevitably get a small fraction of that cash, I'll at least make an effort to give him as little of my money as possible.
As much as I want to fault Cruise, for knowing, for being a part of it, for advocating it, I simply can't. This cult is relentless in its indoctrination, propaganda, influence over its members. Cruise was being worked on 24/7 for years, by the cult's best men, including Miscaviage spewing that crap in his ear all day every day. Is safe to say that out of anyone in that organization, the one person that is most indoctrinated, manipulated and puppeteered has to be Cruise.
Cruise is a victim here too, just like the people harassing the people that left the church. Yes, they are making these people and their family miserable, but they too are victims of years of psychological abuse by the most powerful cult in existence today. It's hard to even imagine what state of mind these people, and Cruise as well, are in. From interviews we've seen glimpses of just how mentally unstable Cruise is, and that is because of Scientology, not in spite if it. Scary as fuck.
BertramCooper
Banned
Cruise is not a child, nor is he a stupid person.
At some point, a person has to wake the fuck up and realize what they're doing and what is being done to them by this fraud of church. Plenty of other Scientologists - including ones who were born into it, unlike Cruise - have figured this shit out and left.
Cruise does not escape blame just because he's a pet project of Miscavige. He's not a patsy anymore; he's a church leader.
It took Paul Harris 30 years to come to that realization. 30 years. The others too, decades upon decades between them. Two years in the hole and still they stuck by this organization.
None of them were children, either. Or stupid.
It's easy to look from the outside in and go "they should know better", but that's exactly what makes a cult like this so dangerous, their endless psychological abuse, to make you emotionally dependent on the church.
Maybe Cruise will leave the church one day, like some others did, I hope so for his sake, but for now he seems as much stuck in Miscavige's web as anyone.
None of them were children, either. Or stupid.
It's easy to look from the outside in and go "they should know better", but that's exactly what makes a cult like this so dangerous, their endless psychological abuse, to make you emotionally dependent on the church.
Maybe Cruise will leave the church one day, like some others did, I hope so for his sake, but for now he seems as much stuck in Miscavige's web as anyone.
BertramCooper
Banned
Miscavige was brought into this organization as a child and indoctrinated at a far more vulnerable age than Cruise was. One could argue that he's a victim, too.
Victims don't entirely escape blame just because they're victims. When the church sets him up with a beautiful starlet like Nazanin Boniadi and then abuses her once she falls out of his favor, he's complicit. When Scientologists cater his wedding out of their pockets, not his, he's complicit. He can't plead ignorance on all of this shit.
Cruise is on an entirely different level than Haggis. He's gone deeper into Scientology than Haggis ever would have gone, even if Haggis were completely devoted to the religion, which he never really was.
damn at that video. those people are lost
Documentary was interesting because it starts out with the people who even left the church saying how their first experiences were really good, how the churches teachings and methods, as weird as they may be, actually really helped them with their lives.
And then the more you get into it the crazier it gets to the point where it becomes dangerous.
It's a shame because if those weird methods work it sounds like something that would be helpful to people. But it had to become this big money making cult.
And then the more you get into it the crazier it gets to the point where it becomes dangerous.
It's a shame because if those weird methods work it sounds like something that would be helpful to people. But it had to become this big money making cult.
Money and exploitation were at the core of Scientology even in the early days.
People were put to work for very little pay on Hubbard's ship and he was charging hundreds of dollars for Dianetics classes even in the 50s and 60s. It's telling that the church owed over a BILLION dollars in back taxes by the early 90s. Think about the kind of revenue they must have been pulling in to result in a tax bill like that.
Oh for sure it was a money making scheme from the beginning.
But the way people explained their experiences in those "sessions" it sounded interesting and they said it did help them at the time. It'd be like paying for therapy.
Honestly that's all part of a good scam. From what I was watching it's not like the 'hook' was anything groundbreaking. Take away the wacky gadget and you have people talking about how much potential you have and how great you can be, and letting someone talk through painful moments in their lives and encourage them and so on. No doubt you're going to 'help' a lot of people and make them feel good. Especially when they come back and do it every week.
There's a reason the rest of it doesn't come into play until you're several years and several thousands of dollars in.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Is there anything in the doc about Hubbard's personal 'guard' of teenage girls in skimpy outfits who would always be around him and would spy on people on his ship? How passengers on his ship would be locked up if he found any hint of someone starting to get ideas about leaving the church?
The basis of auditing seems to be confronting your fears. It is very much like a therapy session. Its based on a 1950s new age understanding of psychology. While somewhat crude it can be effective.
I think that is one of the reasons it hooks actors so well. Getting pumped up for an audition would absolutely terrify me. Someone helps you get over that and you get the part - "hey this is awesome!" You get to be a megastar like cruz and wow, this is the real ultimate truth.
But unfortunately, it's "therapy" based on the drug-addled musings of a delusional messiah figure... not on science.
It's misguided at best and dangerous at worst.
One of the main reasons Cruise and anyone else high up is culpable, regardless of whether they were initially a victim being indoctrinated, is that they're intentionally withholding the main "teachings" of the church.
Tom Cruise, John Travolta, and every other "high level" Scientologist has never spoken publicly about the "true" alien beliefs core to Scientology. They intentionally hide it from people, because they know it will turn people away. Instead it's treated as the most guarded, important secret.
What that means is that every single person at that level who is publicly advocating for Scientology is directly responsible for misleading and indoctrinating others. They are no longer victims at that point. They're fully a part of the scam, intentionally taking advantage of other people, and are deliberately hiding important details.
Tom Cruise, John Travolta, and every other "high level" Scientologist has never spoken publicly about the "true" alien beliefs core to Scientology. They intentionally hide it from people, because they know it will turn people away. Instead it's treated as the most guarded, important secret.
What that means is that every single person at that level who is publicly advocating for Scientology is directly responsible for misleading and indoctrinating others. They are no longer victims at that point. They're fully a part of the scam, intentionally taking advantage of other people, and are deliberately hiding important details.
Haggis' reaction to the Xenu story was one of my favorite parts of the doc.
Dude makes some garbage movies but he seems like an alright guy.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Amazing documentary, hope I live to see the whole organization unravel.
Will be fascinating, hopefully satisfying, but also probably heartbreaking.
Will be fascinating, hopefully satisfying, but also probably heartbreaking.
I mean, if the documentary's analysis that the church is down to ~50,000 active members, it sounds like it's already unraveling. So that's good.
It's always weird to walk by the Scientology office in downtown Seattle. I wonder if it'll be any different now instead of sad souls just standing there trying to give people pamphlets.
In Seattle, Scientology also used to open a temporary yearly anti-psychology center on Broadway in Capitol Hill. It was a Scientology thing, but they didn't actually say Scientology anywhere.
I haven't seen them do that for a few years now, wonder if that's another sign of their dwindling numbers.
It's always weird to walk by the Scientology office in downtown Seattle. I wonder if it'll be any different now instead of sad souls just standing there trying to give people pamphlets.
In Seattle, Scientology also used to open a temporary yearly anti-psychology center on Broadway in Capitol Hill. It was a Scientology thing, but they didn't actually say Scientology anywhere.
I haven't seen them do that for a few years now, wonder if that's another sign of their dwindling numbers.
I wonder if they are monitored 24/7 so they don't find out the truth or told it's BS from the start so don't believe what a non-scientologist says. You can't go through life and not even be curious about the whole Scientology thing outside of the church, just a google search away.
There must be even darker places in Scientology with that much wealth, secrecy and power, I would think a few illegal tastes among quite a few members must be a thing,
Hopefully the FBI or whoever is buidling one hell of a case that brings the whole thing down unless there is scientologists in the goverment....
There must be even darker places in Scientology with that much wealth, secrecy and power, I would think a few illegal tastes among quite a few members must be a thing,
Hopefully the FBI or whoever is buidling one hell of a case that brings the whole thing down unless there is scientologists in the goverment....
That last part would not be shocking at all.
depths20XX
Member
I think this cult will have issues growing anymore in this day and age. I'm not suprised their numbers are dropping. Before the internet I could see people getting into this as they had no clue the whole thing is a sham, nor did they realize the whole Xenu thing.
I wonder if Cruz and Travolta are still in it because they have some dirt on them from their audit sessions or something. They joined before the information age and it doesn't seem like there are many other well known celebs into it.
I wonder if Cruz and Travolta are still in it because they have some dirt on them from their audit sessions or something. They joined before the information age and it doesn't seem like there are many other well known celebs into it.
That is why Cruise and Travolta will not leave the church has a shit ton of dirt on those two. If they left it would destroy them personally and their careers.
I don't think anyone would care, what could it possibly be, they are maybe gay. Surely anything could be shot down by lawyers as well. They have nothing to fear and Travolta doesn't have a career anyway.
Even if they come out relatively unscathed in public opinion and keep getting work in Hollywood, that doesn't mean that they aren't afraid of their personal secrets getting exposed.
They're still human beings.
True Savior
Member
I watched this last night and was , not shocked (i had read/seen stuff about them) , but bewildered . Individual madness is common. Psychological deterioration, etc , its well documented throughout our entire history. Collective madness like this ? It's not understandable. It has nothing to do with religion and beliefs. People are slaved in this organization for no purpose whatsoever. Unless they aren't in their regular psychological faculties (psychotropics ? ) , i don't understand the collective behavior of its members.
Also , its shameful that the Us Government allows this cult to exist. It's beyond the tax-exemption . When children are put into those conditions it crosses a line where State needs to intervene.
Paul Haggis. I read that site posted before (after watching the doc) and they paint him as an opportunist. Which was the idea i got from watching Going Clear. He accepted the access to the organization for favors for him , his family and his work. When he got to the bat-shit insane level he ditched them. 30 years and he had never heard anyone badmouth Scientology ? Really ? I dont believe that. Everyone deserves redemption but he didnt't seemed like a person with great character
Finally Tom Cruise. I like his movies. But this dude supports a organization that slaves people and treats bad children. He's fucking trash.
Also , its shameful that the Us Government allows this cult to exist. It's beyond the tax-exemption . When children are put into those conditions it crosses a line where State needs to intervene.
Paul Haggis. I read that site posted before (after watching the doc) and they paint him as an opportunist. Which was the idea i got from watching Going Clear. He accepted the access to the organization for favors for him , his family and his work. When he got to the bat-shit insane level he ditched them. 30 years and he had never heard anyone badmouth Scientology ? Really ? I dont believe that. Everyone deserves redemption but he didnt't seemed like a person with great character
Finally Tom Cruise. I like his movies. But this dude supports a organization that slaves people and treats bad children. He's fucking trash.
Extra Sauce
Member
It's not clear to me whether Haggis left the Church because of things he learned (as he claims in the doc), or because the public perception of the Church became so bad that the detriments of being a member started to outweigh the benefits. I feel like that's something we'll never really know.
Back in 2009, The New Yorker published a long and in-depth interview with Haggis. I read it back then and still highly recommend it now:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/02/14/the-apostate-lawrence-wright
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
I have my questions about the Scientology execs who bailed as well. It seemed like they were happy to be members of the organization and victimize others until Miscavige diminished their powers and began subjecting them to abuse.
I am also interested to learn if the ex-members traded their belief in Scientology for another religion. If they didn't, are they still Scientologists (just out of the church) or are they atheists?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked