Going Clear |OT| Book/Documentary on the Church of Scientology

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Jarrod38 said:
That is why Cruise and Travolta will not leave the church has a shit ton of dirt on those two. If they left it would destroy them personally and their careers.
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They get into every aspect of your life. Blackmail is probably just a small part of the risk of even thinking about leaving, and the risk itself is still a small part of their web of control.
 
OpinionatedCyborg said:
I have my questions about the Scientology execs who bailed as well. It seemed like they were happy to be members of the organization and victimize others until Miscavige diminished their powers and began subjecting them to abuse.
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That's probably pretty common for defectors of any secretive, oppressive organization.

Sometimes we don't realize we're being such horrible people until we're given a dose of our own medicine.

It doesn't excuse the horrible things they did, but if they're eventually successful at bringing down the church, I'd say that's probably sufficient atonement.
 
OpinionatedCyborg said:
I have my questions about the Scientology execs who bailed as well. It seemed like they were happy to be members of the organization and victimize others until Miscavige diminished their powers and began subjecting them to abuse.

I am also interested to learn if the ex-members traded their belief in Scientology for another religion. If they didn't, are they still Scientologists (just out of the church) or are they atheists?
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I dont i even have questions about them .Their past behavior (crazy how i remembered his face from the English Doc about Scientology. Dude had a crazy gazing that always stayed with me...and now he looked normal) doesn't really give a lot of latitude to characterize them. They knew exactly what they were doing and why they were doing. They knew the abusive nature of its organization which they also implemented.

I talked about Haggis because he sorta tries to walk between the raindrops in the whole doc.

xtrasauce said:
It's not clear to me whether Haggis left the Church because of things he learned (as he claims in the doc), or because the public perception of the Church became so bad that the detriments of being a member started to outweigh the benefits. I feel like that's something we'll never really know.
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It wouldn't surprise me. He says he left because of the whole Xenus story .

Before , the rest was normal ? Hmmm
 
I watched it, and I'm really searching for a reason why these ex-leaders running the documentary (the two guys I guess) deserve jail any less than the head guy.

They seem like a bunch of hypocrites with a half-hearted apology.
 
OpinionatedCyborg said:
I have my questions about the Scientology execs who bailed as well. It seemed like they were happy to be members of the organization and victimize others until Miscavige diminished their powers and began subjecting them to abuse.

I am also interested to learn if the ex-members traded their belief in Scientology for another religion. If they didn't, are they still Scientologists (just out of the church) or are they atheists?
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I've been reading Mike Rinder's blog - http://www.mikerindersblog.org

It appears he still believes in allot of what Hubbard wrote, He quotes him often to attack Miscavige.

Since I first spoke out to the then St Petersburg Times in 2009, I have done all I could to bring about change to end the abuses within the church. The philosophy of Scientology is not the same as the organization and its practices. There is much in the subject of Scientology that is harmless and makes sense to people. But there are also many things, especially in the “administrative technology” that are troubling if not harmful. In theory, Scientology is intended to wake one up and make you happier and more able to communicate with the world around you. In practice within the church it accomplishes the polar opposite. Scientologists within the church are cut off from observation and told what to think.
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So yeah.
 
shoplifter said:
It's not THAT much more weird than any other religion until OTIII. Other that the "pay us to learn more about Church teachings"
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Well , if you put things that way ... :)

The moment someone pays to get access to religion teaching gets exponentially weirder than anything by comparison. Also , only after a few years you actually start to learn in depth about it. Which once again is way more weird than any other religions. And then there is the abusive nature of the organization. I can't believe he had no idea of it prior to the events that made him leave.
 
I was kind of disappointed by this. Wish they had done it as a miniseries instead of cramming it into a movie. I didn't learn anything that I hadn't seen on the news or gaf threads over the years, except the stuff about Tom Cruise being more of a dickhead than a rube.
 
I really don't think that the folks that know a lot about CoS were the target of this to be fair. Most people think 'oh those weirdoes' but don't know a lot about the inner workings of the CoS or that LRH was basically a gigantic con man.
 
BocoDragon said:
Guys I'm sorry but this doc has been debunked

http://www.freedommag.org/hbo/videos/exterminating-gibneys-propaganda.html

"Ants"
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Wow that video! That is quite scary. The whole website actually.

I don't think this doc is available yet in the UK but I will be reading the book soon.

Edit: doesnt look like the book is available in the UK either (Thanks freedommag.org for that info!) but you can order it through the US amazon store. weird.

Still this thread has turned me onto the disturbing world of scientologists acting like dicks on youtube so thats great.
 
William said:
Wow that video! That is quite scary. The whole website actually.

I don't think this doc is available yet in the UK but I will be reading the book soon.

Edit: doesnt look like the book is available in the UK either (Thanks freedommag.org for that info!) but you can order it through the US amazon store. weird.

Still this thread has turned me onto the disturbing world of scientologists acting like dicks on youtube so thats great.
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The book is available here. No idea if the documentary will air on our TV. It was partnered with Sky Atlantic though so maybe they'll show it, as long as the CoS don't kill everyone first.
 
This is fucked up. I don't understand why religious entities are exempt from things like abuse and torture. These people should be in jail.
 
shoplifter said:
I really don't think that the folks that know a lot about CoS were the target of this to be fair. Most people think 'oh those weirdoes' but don't know a lot about the inner workings of the CoS or that LRH was basically a gigantic con man.
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That would be me.
My only perception of scientology prior to this documentary was "they be crazy".
I had no idea about the imprisonment and the psychological/physical abuses that were going on there.
They are beyond disgusting.

I'm usually good at separating someone's personal life/belief from their work, but man, fuck Tom Cruise. It makes me not want to watch his movies any more.
 
Yeah not a whole lot of new stuff, but I was surprised at how Cruise came off in this. I had always assumed his interest in Scientology was merely a pragmatic move to further his career, or something he got into naively and couldn't back out due to potential blackmail or fear of being labeled a hypocrite.

Seeing how involved and enthusiastic he actually is was pretty eye opening. Given that most accounts paint Cruise as a genuinely good guy, it's hard to reconcile him being that gung ho for an organization that commits the abuses that Scientology commits.
 
megamerican said:
Yeah not a whole lot of new stuff, but I was surprised at how Cruise came off in this. I had always assumed his interest in Scientology was merely a pragmatic move to further his career, or something he got into naively and couldn't back out due to potential blackmail or fear of being labeled a hypocrite.

Seeing how involved and enthusiastic he actually is was pretty eye opening. Given that most accounts paint Cruise as a genuinely good guy, it's hard to reconcile him being that gung ho for an organization that commits the abuses that Scientology commits.
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He is so weirdly intense in this. That hand shake with Miscavige is bizarre. The Nicole Kidman relationship and how pissed Miscavige was and how they aimed to get him back, that is completely fucked up. Did they reprogramme Tom Cruise. Seeing that promotion video again, maybe so. It's like he could snap at any moment but gets reeled in by some weird fallback structure.

The abuse, imprisionment etc. Is he and others cloth eared or something. Do they control them so much that they can't look on a computer themselves or read an article. How is it possible to be that oblivious. I'm starting to think they like to take part in a good beating of scientologists that step out of line or get pummeled themselves. The way those two ladies responded to the question with the same answer, rehearsed. Scary stuff. I think a lot less of anyone associated with the church now than before. Quite sickening.

I was surprised to see the FBI, IRS etc. have been after them for a long time and even arrested some many years ago. Seems the IRS boss completely bottled it giving them a religion pass. On the brightside it seems the heat is on, they fight court battles all the time with expensive lawyers saving them so far, Miscavige trying his best not to speak in court. Hope the end is near. Very surprising there is apparently less than 50,000 members and they still have over $3 billion is assets and money.
 
Absolutely fascinating. Being unfamiliar with the subject of Scientology I think this documentary brilliantly covers the history and explains all the notoriety around it. Also the Tom Cruise bits - sheesh.
 
Shouldn't the teachings of any church be readily available to the public and not through paid tiers or behind copyright if they want to be recognized as a real religion? If they don't, then they stay a cult or secret society, and don't get a tax exemption. Would this cover all the major religions just fine and exclude these weird fringes? For example, Mormons can still have their creepy sealing rituals hidden from public viewing, but they need to document the practice.

And, if scientologists did reveal all their teachings and OT levels to the public, couldn't they just say that without proper auditing, people won't experience the benefits of the higher OT levels? I feel this way, you let people know upfront how crazy a cult they are and not get hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt before learning the truth behind the wall of fire or whatever.
 
jelly said:
The abuse, imprisionment etc. Is he and others cloth eared or something. Do they control them so much that they can't look on a computer themselves or read an article. How is it possible to be that oblivious.
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AFAIK they have to put Scientology software on their computers which gives them limited access to the Internet. Seems like it would be much harder to block now with smartphones. They also see anything anti-Scientology as propaganda. A friend of mine that was raised a Scientologist was completely unfamiliar with pop culture until she left.
 
I don't usually go for 'activist' documentaries but watching this was upsetting.

Does the government not get involved because it would be too costly a fight?
 
Bernbaum said:
I don't usually go for 'activist' documentaries but watching this was upsetting.

Does the government not get involved because it would be too costly a fight?
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Being soft handed after the original government infiltration attempt allowed the group to grow large enough to force the IRS' hand. Should have locked the lot up and thrown away the key. But there's no political capital in rounding up a bunch of well connected "religious" folk.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Being soft handed after the original government infiltration attempt allowed the group to grow large enough to force the IRS' hand. Should have locked the lot up and thrown away the key. But there's no political capital in rounding up a bunch of well connected "religious" folk.
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At this point I'd wager there would be considerable bipartisan support among the public for revoking Scientology's tax-exempt status. It would appeal to conservative Christians who think it's a cult, and to liberals who are appalled by the church's human rights abuses.

I think the problem is that Scientology has largely been viewed by the public as a goofy, but ultimately harmless, religion. But I think that's rapidly changing.
 
bertram, i've looked into your post history, and it is very clear that you've made many, many slanderous posts against the church of scientology.

you are an sp, and i'm reporting you to cob.

confess your crimes.

now.
 
I picked up HBO again over the weekend in preparation for Silicon Valley and Game of Thrones and ended up watching this on HBO Go. Wow. Pretty crazy stuff.

I'm definitely going to pick up the book because for whatever reason, I find it fascinating to read and discover how groups like this come to power and convince their members to go along with it.

Any other good scientology books similar to Going Clear to look into as well?
 
BertramCooper said:
At this point I'd wager there would be considerable bipartisan support among the public for revoking Scientology's tax-exempt status. It would appeal to conservative Christians who think it's a cult, and to liberals who are appalled by the church's human rights abuses.

I think the problem is that Scientology has largely been viewed by the public as a goofy, but ultimately harmless, religion. But I think that's rapidly changing.
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I've always thought that the forced abortions in the Sea Org was the angle to get the right wing on board.
 
mid83 said:
Any other good scientology books similar to Going Clear to look into as well?
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The Bare Faced Messiah is really, really a fantastic study on Hubbard. It is very narrowly focused on Hubbard and Scientology under Hubbard and therefore doesn't touch upon any of the more recent happenings of Scientology. But it's a fantastic read on Hubbard and Scientology's "early years," so to speak.

It used to be available here, for free: http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm However, it seems as if the book is now being reprinted so it was removed from the website and can now be purchased here: http://www.silvertailbooks.com/portfolio-post/bare-faced-messiah/

Amazon also has it for cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=the+bare+faced+messiah
 
Finally caught it last night. None of it was too surprising (and was kinda disappointed they didn't go into more detail about the more fucked up stuff.) Only think that caught me off guard was the membership number. Was expecting higher.



Hopefully having a feature-length documentary will help spread the word about how messed up Scientology is.
 
Wow, he documentary was pretty disgusting too and I'm just baffled as to why the IRS allowed them religion status and then the courts allowed their abuse to be excused by the first amendment due to their religious status? Baffling, just baffling.

The disconnect is perhaps the most disturbing thing about them. To essentially force someone to completely block out someone, even a mother and daughter is pure cult behaviour.

And the harassment of people who leave? Just further proof of how cult like they really are.

One other thing, my estimation of Tom Cruise dropped to absolute bottom after this, I'm pretty damn disgusted by some of the revelations. No doubt this is just the tip of the iceberg...

Ugh. I'd always read he was a decent chap.
 
Miles Quaritch said:
The disconnect is perhaps the most disturbing thing about them. To essentially force someone to completely block out someone, even a mother and daughter is pure cult behaviour.
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This isnt exclusive to scientology tho, in christianity its called excommunication and in some of the more strict religious groups the end results are the same.

Well i just watched, very informative...but the final 10 minutes really did it for me, so the active members of the church are dropping but it the organisation on itself is a financial powerhouse, pretty scary.

Also, is there something like this but then about the mormon faith? they also have this 'sci-fi like' backstory right?
 
A lot of things were already known to me. Credit to reading tabloids, listening to the Howard Stern shown (the spaceman novels), and talking to a journalist friend. "Disconnecting" however is something I was unaware of somehow. Maybe I had heard that phrase and never knew the dastardly level at which they take it too. The concept is ridiculous and surprising that Nicole lasted as long as she did.

I wish they have given more time to the ridiculous Tom Cruise, Limp Bizkit M:I themed video that leaked. That time period for him was ridiculous. Could have even gone into the unfair attacking of Brooke Shields. Even John Travolta's son Jett could have been included for more of an impact too. Or more on Michiavges (sp) wife who has disappeared off the face of the planet.

And seeing LRH (lol) reminds me that I need to watch The Master to see PCH's portrayal of him. They look alike in a sense I'm guessing that the ship scenes from the trailer for that movie revolve around the beginning of SeaOrg.

Edit:

The explanation of the IRS stuff was fascinating. Didn't know about that either.
 
You are looking at the off-ramps instead of the highway; you are missing the sign-post up ahead, the one that reads: "Next stop... The Twilight Zone."

rod-serling-twilight-zone.jpg


What a creepy bunch. I never thought that lizard people were a real thing... until now.
 
There wasn't much new information in there but one thing that did strike me is how short David Miscavige is. Even Cruise was looming over him.

Seems like he's got a real Napoleon complex, the man is a psycho.
 
Just watched this last night and I thought it was fantastic. I did not know a lot about the stuff Scientology has done in the past, so it was very eye opening (and terrifying). It's completely ludicrous that the US government recognizes them as a religion.
 
Just saw this after a friend recommended it and wow this Scientology shit is even crazier than I thought. It was pretty disheartening to watch.

Jb said:
Paul Haggis going "WHAT THE FUCK" after reading LRH's bullshit about Xenu, thetans and volcanoes was probably the funniest TV moment of the year so far.
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That part got a big laugh out of me.
 
I just finished watching. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the sheer insanity of it all. I'm genuinely at a loss for words right now.
 
Frog-fu said:
I just finished watching. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the sheer insanity of it all. I'm genuinely at a loss for words right now.
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Truth really is stranger than fiction, isn't it?
 
I've just ordered the book on Amazon (sadly it's not available on kindle) and I wanted to know if I could watch the documentary before reading the book as I won't get it before a few days and I don't have much free time these days or if it's going to ruin the reading experience for me ?

I don't know much about Scientology.
 
Mimosa97 said:
I've just ordered the book on Amazon (sadly it's not available on kindle) and I wanted to know if I could watch the documentary before reading the book as I won't get it before a few days and I don't have much free time these days or if it's going to ruin the reading experience for me ?

I don't know much about Scientology.
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I think you'd be fine. If anything, the book will give you the additional details you'll crave after watching the documentary.

Frog-fu said:
You said. It's like a story from a crime novel or a thriller.
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I don't know if any book genre can really sum it up. It's like if Catch Me if You Can led into Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
 
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