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Gran Turismo 5 Spec II |OT| - We Love DLC!

So I did some races with everything off, completely. All settings at 0 (except Anti lock breaks, which I kept at 1). And having TC at 0 makes things really tough. My NSX was spinning out all over the place.

But for the first time I actually felt like I was "driving" this game, and not "playing" it. The race was much more difficult, but it felt like there wasn't any bullshit between me or my car. I also can now truly feel the differences between cars. Before, everything felt like a 4wd car that the finger of god would prevent from spinning out or making mistakes. the only skill required was knowing when to break and gas depending on the severity of the turn.

It's a damn shame the game defaults to all these things on, I could only imagine how arcadey the game actually is on these settings.


That japanese website that usually does framerate analysis did one for 1080pvs720pvs3D

720p Avg:59.527fps Min-Max:47.5-60.0fps Tear:15.208% (14.393%)
1080p Avg:59.010fps Min-Max:46.0-60.0fps Tear:25.426% (24.212%)
3D Avg:38.523fps Min-Max:27.0-47.5fps Tear:30.178% (29.579%)

The average fps and tear kinda tells a lie, because there are some really long and empty parts on the video where even at 1080p it goes to 60fps, at the start at the vid tearing is over 40% in 1080p, but fps wise it is generally only 1-5 fps slower.

GT5 is 60 fps? I thought it was only 60 fps in certain view modes. And that First Person and cockpit the game is at 30 fps?
 
Imo, never buy hw on release. There will be great deals holiday 2012.

You're right, and the last console I bought at launch was the PS2, but the thing is I write for two gaming sites and I could (probably) get a lot of Vita games early on as not a lot of people will have one. I could sell the ones I don't want to keep or something and get some money back, dunno. It's a tough choice :p But I think I'd rather sell some games than my DFGT even if I don't use it that much nowadays.

Sorry for the OT guys :D
 

torontoml

Member
Is it just me or is there a huge difference between ABS on 1 and OFF, I find my ability to brake well goes right out the window when I turn it off.
 

torontoml

Member
It's the difference between locking ur breaks and not locking them :p

Yeah, I get that, I just can't ever get used to it so I just revert to always setting it on 1, everything else is off but I just can't drive quickly with ABS off. Is there something I'm missing that I could do to improve?
 
Yeah, I get that, I just can't ever get used to it so I just revert to always setting it on 1, everything else is off but I just can't drive quickly with ABS off. Is there something I'm missing that I could do to improve?

Just gotta go easy with the brake control. You can't go full on the brakes. If they lock just pump them. But in certain situations wheels locking will actually be beneficial, if your car is straight and on the line it will brake faster.

If you're on a controller it's probably really hard so best to just leave it at 1.
 
Also, what's good for active steering? Off, mild or strong. I have it on off. I swear, this game has 50,000 different settings to prevent oversteer, I don't even know why the call it a simulation game anymore.
 
So the addition of optional driver aids makes a game less of a sim?


It's more that you have a lot of things they already default to on and the natural tendency isn't to mess with default settings in a game. Furthermore, they keep turning all this shit back on in arcade mode and in even on the license tests. It's like -they want- me to play with all these half- dozen assists on. I think a lot of people have a desire to not want to change what the devs default to in regards to settings, thinking it's the way it should be. But with these settings on, the game isn't a sim nor is it an exciting shut off your brain arcade racer. It's in this useless limbo in the middle of long annoying constant load times and at times appealing visuals of a game.

Even I had to ask some questions about what's the best way to go about these assist settings. They should have had a blanket setting like arcade, professional, simulation that when selected auto change the sub assists to appropriate settings like Forza. Really not trying to be an elitist, I'm really not even that good at racing games, but considering I got bored of Gran Turismo before, and yet turning some of these assists off made the game shine, and now I got back into it. I could only wonder how others would react if they did the same, and a lot of people I know just got bored with GT after a few days. The assists are so bad it literally made all the cars feel the same, like they were all 4WD. But now, I can feel the difference between a powered up rear wheel car and a front wheel car. The game make sense. I actually have to adjust gear ratios, toe angles, cams etc. etc. I don't deny some people want an arcade based set up, but I don't think GT really does well in that regard in compared to dedicated arcade based racing games. It's also conflicting. A lot of arcade based games allow you to retry missed turns on the spot etc. etc., while GT - though presenting itself as an arcade racer on default, then has elements of it that more appeal to sim fans. So, out of the box, the game isn't really appealing to either people as much as it should.

As for controller versus wheel, the most important thing in regards to a controller I think is TCS, since it's harder to control your throttle. But everything else, not so much. I think.
 

Polyphony

Member
It's more that you have a lot of things they already default to on and the natural tendency isn't to mess with default settings in a game. Furthermore, they keep turning all this shit back on in arcade mode and in even on the license tests. It's like -they want- me to play with all these half- dozen assists on.

If the game shipped with full simulation settings, it would turn off a lot of the casual players who prefer an approachable racing game with tons of cars and tracks.

I think their current approach is fine. Those who seek a simulation experience will know when to turn off the aids, read the manual or research on it.

I figured this was the best place to post this, felt like sharing photo's from my league race last night, quite easily the most fun I've ever had in online GT5 race.

Any chance of a highlights video in the future? Nice pictures, sounded like an epic race from the participants' comments.
 
It's more that you have a lot of things they already default to on and the natural tendency isn't to mess with default settings in a game. Furthermore, they keep turning all this shit back on in arcade mode and in even on the license tests. It's like -they want- me to play with all these half- dozen assists on. I think a lot of people have a desire to not want to change what the devs default to in regards to settings, thinking it's the way it should be. But with these settings on, the game isn't a sim nor is it an exciting shut off your brain arcade racer. It's in this useless limbo in the middle of long annoying constant load times and at times appealing visuals of a game.

Even I had to ask some questions about what's the best way to go about these assist settings. They should have had a blanket setting like arcade, professional, simulation that when selected auto change the sub assists to appropriate settings like Forza. Really not trying to be an elitist, I'm really not even that good at racing games, but considering I got bored of Gran Turismo before, and yet turning some of these assists off made the game shine, and now I got back into it. I could only wonder how others would react if they did the same, and a lot of people I know just got bored with GT after a few days. The assists are so bad it literally made all the cars feel the same, like they were all 4WD. But now, I can feel the difference between a powered up rear wheel car and a front wheel car. The game make sense. I actually have to adjust gear ratios, toe angles, cams etc. etc. I don't deny some people want an arcade based set up, but I don't think GT really does well in that regard in compared to dedicated arcade based racing games. It's also conflicting. A lot of arcade based games allow you to retry missed turns on the spot etc. etc., while GT - though presenting itself as an arcade racer on default, then has elements of it that more appeal to sim fans. So, out of the box, the game isn't really appealing to either people as much as it should.

As for controller versus wheel, the most important thing in regards to a controller I think is TCS, since it's harder to control your throttle. But everything else, not so much. I think.

PD could do more to move people towards sim settings. Forza indeed does it right. It rewards the player for switching off aids. I think they could improve it even more by making suggestions during the career to turn stuff off and telling players what it means to do so. But really, any sim racer should go into the options menu and figure it out for themselves. Having a few broad settings won't satisfy everybody either so most of the time you'll be forced to fiddle with specific options.
 
PD could do more to move people towards sim settings. Forza indeed does it right. It rewards the player for switching off aids. I think they could improve it even more by making suggestions during the career to turn stuff off and telling players what it means to do so. But really, any sim racer should go into the options menu and figure it out for themselves. Having a few broad settings won't satisfy everybody either so most of the time you'll be forced to fiddle with specific options.

Forza rewards players for that? That's interesting. I'd like to check out Forza but I only have the Logitech GT Force and apparently that's PS3 only.


EDIT:
That superbowl commercial for the new NSX was sick. Is it available to drive in Spec 2? I noticed I was racing against it in arcade mode.
 

amar212

Member
Forza rewards players for that? That's interesting. I'd like to check out Forza but I only have the Logitech GT Force and apparently that's PS3 only.

That superbowl commercial for the new NSX was sick. Is it available to drive in Spec 2? I noticed I was racing against it in arcade mode.

Yes, Forza does a pretty good job with raising the award-percentage for disabling assists, but there is so much more that can be done in that particular field. One of the best examples in field of "teaching" players about driving and awarding him for his choices and accomplishments lays in the hands of the Enthusia Professional Racing (Konami, PS2).

Their complex and diverse system of levelling, different types of points and handicaps is still one of the best ever conceived.

As for bolded part - are you sure about that?
 

shpankey

not an idiot
That japanese website that usually does framerate analysis did one for 1080pvs720pvs3D

720p Avg:59.527fps Min-Max:47.5-60.0fps Tear:15.208% (14.393%)
1080p Avg:59.010fps Min-Max:46.0-60.0fps Tear:25.426% (24.212%)
3D Avg:38.523fps Min-Max:27.0-47.5fps Tear:30.178% (29.579%)

The average fps and tear kinda tells a lie, because there are some really long and empty parts on the video where even at 1080p it goes to 60fps, at the start at the vid tearing is over 40% in 1080p, but fps wise it is generally only 1-5 fps slower.

Interesting, thank you for this.
 

Mobius 1

Member
The patch is up - 79 MB.


he main contents of the update are as follows:

- Improved the performance of online races to provide a better racing experience. However, please note that using voice chat with 12 or more players can reduce screen refresh intervals.

- Reduced wobbling of the screen when using the Chase view (The Chase view is when the car is viewed from the rear during races and replays, selected by using the SELECT button).

- Electric cars (opponent cars and your cars in B-Spec) will now pit-in automatically to recharge the battery.

- Reduced the amount of steering pull when using force feedback steering wheel controllers in banks on courses such as the Special Stage Route X Oval.

- When driving formula cars using the Logitech steering wheel controllers, the initial force feedback amount has been lessened and adjusted to make it easier to drive in a straight line.
Applicable controllers: Driving Force™ GT, G25 Racing Wheel、G27 Racing Wheel, GT Force®Pro, GT Force®、Driving Force™, GT Force®RX and Driving Force Wireless
Applicable cars: Red Bull X2011, Red Bull X2010, Ferrari F10, Ferrari F2007, Formula Gran Turismo

[Correction of Known Issues]
- Fixed an issue where speedometer, race position and best lap time info are sometimes not displayed on the 2nd player side in 2P Battle Mode.
- Fixed an issue where exhaust sound is heard even after switching from a combustion engine car to an electric car within the same online race.
- Fixed an issue where if the game is started without signing in online and then saved, the cars and courses included in the Racing Car Pack and Course Pack would become unusable.
- Fixed an issue where electric cars would not recharge in the pit and become immobile.
- Fixed an issue where when the oil of the Toyota Prius was changed in GT Auto, the motor ceased to function correctly.
- Improved the force feedback of the Guillemot Thrustmaster T500 RS, where the 10 level force feedback adjustment (Especially when using the X2010 and X2011) was not working effectively. Also improved a condition where it was difficult to drive in the intended path.
- Improved the force feedback for the Logitech Driving Force™ GT, G25 Racing Wheel, G27 Racing Wheel and GT Force®Pro, where the 10 level force feedback adjustment (Especially when using the X2010 and X2011) was not working effectively.
 

Polyphony

Member
Wow nice, PD really does pay attention. Looking forward to see if the online lag bug is completely gone or not, even though I never noticed it.
 
- When driving formula cars using the Logitech steering wheel controllers, the initial force feedback amount has been lessened and adjusted to make it easier to drive in a straight line.
Applicable controllers: Driving Force™ GT, G25 Racing Wheel、G27 Racing Wheel, GT Force®Pro, GT Force®、Driving Force™, GT Force®RX and Driving Force Wireless
Applicable cars: Red Bull X2011, Red Bull X2010, Ferrari F10, Ferrari F2007, Formula Gran Turismo

Finally!
 

brentech

Member
What feels right.

.


10 doesn't make a whole lot of sense as most the cars in the game are the higher version of a particular model, so it should have power steering unless very old.
That said, just use what you're comfortable with, but know that maxing it out and racing long races with super cars can burn out your wheel. Just ask MM.
 

shpankey

not an idiot
The current out car view feels like the car has a needle right through the center of the car and just pivots around on this axis.
 
has anyone tried the adjusted force feedback?

I just played a couple of hours of it after a break from GT, haven't touched it since the Spa DLC (whenever that was) and there appears to be less force feedback, especially around the centre of the wheel but sadly it didn't stop the oscillation.

I know my wheel isn't officially supported but it's supposed to mimic a G series wheel so I guess the end result will be the same.

Hopefully they'll patch the terrible clutch at some point.
 

SonnyBoy

Member
Per your recommendations, I finally got a wheel. More specifically, I got the logitech force gt and I love it. This is how the game was meant to be played. The level of attention and detail that went into making this wheel provide so much feedback is mind blowing. I think this is truly one of the most, if not the most immersive gaming experience I've had and it's due to this wheel.
 
Per your recommendations, I finally got a wheel. More specifically, I got the logitech force gt and I love it. This is how the game was meant to be played. The level of attention and detail that went into making this wheel provide so much feedback is mind blowing. I think this is truly one of the most, if not the most immersive gaming experience I've had and it's due to this wheel.

Yeah. The best thing about having a wheel is now you can turn off the electronic assists, (except for maybe ABS, which I leave at 1). And it actually improves your lap times since you can now properly control the car on your own without assists hampering your acceleration or turning.
 

SonnyBoy

Member
Yeah. The best thing about having a wheel is now you can turn off the electronic assists, (except for maybe ABS, which I leave at 1). And it actually improves your lap times since you can now properly control the car on your own without assists hampering your acceleration or turning.


Yeah, I've already cut everything down to zero, except ABS. I found it darn near impossible to not lock the brakes up. Another thing I find pretty amazing is that the wheel truly gives each car a unique feel.
 

Ark

Member
If anyone is interested, here is the race edit for our 3rd season league race last Saturday. Awesome video, missed a bit of action, but it's still a nice video :)

We should have a Monza one coming soon too hopefully, I guess I'll post that here too when it's up.
 

amar212

Member
Does anybody know if PD fixed the XP on the online events yet?

Probably coming in the Valentine's Day update scheduled through the following 2 days.

Love, Kaz


Yeah, I've already cut everything down to zero, except ABS. I found it darn near impossible to not lock the brakes up. Another thing I find pretty amazing is that the wheel truly gives each car a unique feel.

Bold part #1
HOW TO MAKE NON-ABS BRAKING ACTUALLY WORKING

This one have few steps.

Step A > The Mighty Sponge Ball™

Brake-pedals on all of the middle-prices wheels are too loose and too soft to produce a usable sensitivity of travel in order to cope with the non-ABS braking. However, for almost a decade now we have a solution for that problem: The Mighty Sponge Ball™

1018a.jpg


Solution is simple: just insert the sponge under the brake and you're ready to go. Sponge will allow you to dose the actual brake-power more subtly and to actually have control of the brake-travel.

Of course, any hard-sponged material will do even better than simple sponge ball, especially high-density sponges, like neoprene for example. Once you've settled the step A) it is time for step B.

Step B > The Brake Balance Adjustment ™

In order to achieve maximum performance and feel out of the GT5 physics engine and wheel support, you have to manually tweak few options in the game and accept few issues. First, you should go to the wheel option and set the steering to Simulation (although it affects only 270-wheels, but it is no-brainer, so just do it) and turn the Power Steering to OFF.

As for accepting issues, there is one thing you have to get use to when going into the universe of the non-ABS braking: you have to manually dial the ABS to OFF for the every car prior to the race in the Race Settings menu (unfortunately, you can't do it in the Settings menu in the Garage for the car of your choice). Once done, you're ready for the most important thing: The Brake Balance Adjustment ™

By default, every car in GT5 comes with Brake Balance set to 5/5 (front/rear). With ABS OFF and the default 5/5 value, there is no way you can properly drive the car, because that default value is messing the complete balance of the suspension and produces practically undrivable car. So, you have to manually adjust the Brake Balance for the every car you wish to use with ABS OFF.

General idea about adjust the Brake Balance comes form basic presumption of weight-distribution behaviour while braking: when you brake, the central mass of the vehicle and inertia moves from the back to the front. Thus all cars in real life have bigger and stronger brakes on the front-wheels and GT5 utilises the same logic. In order to adjust the BB, you have to re-distribute the BB values towards front. But before going onto that, one explanation.

Although Gran Turismo 5 uses the name of ABS (Anti Brake-Lock System) for that particular assist, I personally do not find it as representation/simulation of the actual ABS. I think it is nothing more than basic braking-assist which *overrides* the intertia-momentum on suspension and nullify the wheel-lock. Even ABS1 is too effective in what it does, so I do not find any mean in having the option to set it up to 10 (which game allows), so basically it is *ABS* just by name. I see it as nothing else but basic brake assist tool. Now back to BB setting.

Every car BB is different, but there is some generalisation possible. FR, RR and MR cars will all benefit from the higher setting towards the front. For example, I mainly use 3/1 setting for majority of my road FR, RR and MR cars. Of course, there are exceptions like Ferrari F40 where sheer mass of the vehicle asks for higher setting in the front in order to achieve proper distribution of the weight and stop the rear-axle from going into oversteer because of the insufficient braking-power on the front wheels > so for the F40 I use 5/1 setting for example and for F430 4/2 (I also use 4/2 for SLS, LFA, M3 and similar vehicles).

For FF and 4WD cars I generally use 2/3 or 3/4 setting in order to combat understeer on the front-wheels. Since the brake-pads are larger on the front (GT actually takes that into concern), in order to combat understeer and lockup on FF and 4WD cars I tend to *release* the pressure on the front-axle by taking off the braking-power from the front wheels and force the rear-axle oversteer in order to have natural entry to the apex.

Another thing becomes important when advanced settings comes into perspective: such as having Tire Wear ON, or driving on the wet surfaces with changeable weather/track conditions. To cut it short, the Quick Tune Functions (that in-race screen you can call-in and adjust some setting on the fly in the real-time with either Manetino-wheel on your DFGT or button-combination on the other wheels) becomes very important during the advanced races, because the tire-heat and degradation can call for altering the BB, as well as the wet surfaces. However, you will come to the appropriate conclusions by yourself through experimenting during time.

Small notice is how settings adjusted through QTS menu does not *stay* on the car through the venues. So if you changed the settings during your Free Time run in online-lounge fro example, you will not have them applied once the race starts > values are set to those in main car-Settings menu. So if you come to the better solution through QTS during the Free race, you will have to alter them again through QTS once the race starts if you didn't changed them in the Settings menu.

Of course, GT5 now offers option to save multiple Settings (A/B/C, in the Settings menu), so you can manually set the ABS OFF setting for every car in one of the "Sheets" - under the B for example - in order to use it when you like. Notice how another issue is that you have to first set the desired Setting Sheet (B for example), than go to Race Options and set ABS to OFF, and than come back to settings and apply the proper BB settings. That is because once you set the ABS to OFF in the Race Option settings (where "A Settings Sheet" is always default one), it stays like that for the particular car everywhere you go with it (including online). If you opt for ABS OFF in the default "A Settings Sheet" so you will have to manually re-set it to 1 every time you want to race the car with the ABS ON. A bit confusing, but once you get used to it, it becomes just another Gran Turismo Player Masochistic Routine™.

Bold part #2
Step C >Every Car Becomes Unique Without ABS™

I know that all above probably sounds complicating, but in fact it is not. Once you install the The Mighty Sponge Ball™ and get used to the logic of the Brake Balance settings, the new world opens - because once you disengage the braking-assist (one we call the ABS for reasons of commodity and easier perception for the casual players) you will finally get the proper feeling of the unique physics of the every car.

By the same logic you said in your post how "the wheel truly gives each car a unique feel", disengaging the brake-assist and diving into the world of proper Brake Balance settings will enhance that particular sensation even more. Once you begin to utilise the correct BB settings, you will be able to actually feel the pavement-ripping torque of the F40, the feel of the Aventador's mass decelerating while eating the front tires or difference between the braking-characteristics of all GT500 cars which pretty much handles inside the same handicap while ABS is turned on.

Take your time and test on the low-powered cars for start, preferably on Tsukuba and than moving to the Trial Mountain. Mazdas MX-5/RX-7 are great for FR cars basics, and once you master them you can move to the MR class with the F430 as the best car for that task. Of course, test all of them with their default tires in order to develop the feel for the actual tire-threshold and BB values you need to apply.

Good luck and I hope you'll have the great time once you indulge yourself into this universe.

*
*
 

Xun

Member
Just curious, but how good is the Thrustmaster F430 wheel?

I've managed to find it used for £25, when it should be about £80.

I know it's not the best wheel, but would it be worth getting for now?
 

amar212

Member
Just curious, but how good is the Thrustmaster F430 wheel?

I've managed to find it cheap for £25, when it should be about £80.

Not good for any kind of serious sensation/play, really.

IMO the *basic* wheel for GT5 should really be Logitech Driving Force GT and nothing else.

Even the legendary Logitech Driving Force Pro is not such a good wheel anymore for GT5 because its construction of FFB gears literally destroys the complexity of the FFB sensation. I tried to drive with it last week at the friend and was simply stunned how grindey, sturdy and cogged it was - while it was a dream come true in days of GT4.

Try to find the best deal you can for the Logitech Driving Force GT, it is the only real solution in the entry-level price.
 
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