Gran Turismo 5 Spec II |OT| - We Love DLC!

Now I'm only two trophies away from the Platinum: GT-R Official Record and Gold Standard. Any tips on the GT-R record? Just from 2 or 3 attempts, looks like I need to shave 14 sec off my time but I'm kinda scared of driving "all-out" for fear of going off-track with these crappy sports-hard tires. I'm using a dualshock 3 btw.
 
celcius said:
Any tips on the GT-R record?
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As I recall, you need to do it on the "default" vehicle in the Arcade Free Run mode.

Downgrade the tire-compound for 1-step (if it is Sport Hard downgrade to Comfort Soft, or if it is Sport Medium downgrade to Sport Hard) and do few laps on such 1-step-lower compound.

Nevermind the mistakes, just try to get a fee for that "lower" compound.

Once you completed the "learning" with the "lower" compound, fit the default compound and suddenly you'll fly the track like never before.
 
celcius said:
Now I'm only two trophies away from the Platinum: GT-R Official Record and Gold Standard. Any tips on the GT-R record? Just from 2 or 3 attempts, looks like I need to shave 14 sec off my time but I'm kinda scared of driving "all-out" for fear of going off-track with these crappy sports-hard tires. I'm using a dualshock 3 btw.
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Different cars, but the basics still apply. This is still by far the best guide to the nurburgring I have come across.

With the GTR, be mindful of its weight. Try not to change direction abruptly. Also note that it can be squirmy under braking. Try to brake in as straight a line as possible. The section before the karussell (first concrete banked corner) is not terribly hard. The section after that before the main straight it usually what messes people up. Try to collect yourself before getting to this section.
 
So... we expecting anything GT related at E3 this year? Would be pretty unusual for Sony to go two years in a row without GT at E3. Wish they'd just announce the Vita game already so we know who's developing it. lol
 
I just got to drive a Subaru BRZ at a dealership preview. Besides some minor suspension tweaking the BRZ is the same car as the Scion FRS/Toyota GT86 in GT5. This the first time I have driven a car in real life and then driven the exact same car in GT5. The results, where interesting and hopefully insightful.

First off the car is fun to drive but its not what I would call fast. This was probably because there was over 400 pounds of human weight in the car when I drove (most on my right...ugh). I wish I could have avoided this, but it was not possible. I was also terrible with the manual... It's been too long. Please keep these things in mind.

I only drove it irl in an abandoned parking lot. All aids were off. Irl I did a couple of flick oversteer maneuvers, imaginary s curves, heavy braking/turning understeer and an emergency stop from a little below 60mph. I felt after 30 minutes I had a good feel for the car but could have used some alone time to learn it further.

I drove home and had GT5 booted and ready to go. Logitech G25. Stock Scion FRS. To emulate the parking lot I chose the top gear test track. I added 190kgs for the combined weight of me and my dealer overlord passenger, Jaba the Hut. For tires I started out with comfort medium. WAY too slippery. Irl the BRZ has some safety understeer built in and is pretty grippy even when provoked. With cm tires it breaks way to early, harshly, and at too low a turning angle. Sports hard was at the other end. Too grippy. Comfort soft seemed about right(if a smidge too slipery).

With that set up I set out to replicate my tests. First the slide. The BRZ has great steering feel and the G25 can't even come close. That being said, in general terms, "wheel is light, wheel is heavy" GT5 and the G25 performed reasonably well but any feeling beyond that, is just not there. Irl even ignoring g forces you can feel through the wheel what the car is doing. This is most evident when you turn the wheel back to center at the end of a slide. Irl all that is required is a short, even, slow motion. No jerking or additional correcting. In GT5 it takes more steering correction and at a faster rate to straighten the car out. As far as how the car slid, irl slides start earlier (at lower speed) but are more progressive. In GT5 the tire breaking point is more sudden and drastic. To me this tells me GT5 could use a better tire model. Suspension/weight transfer wise, GT5 feels just about right. Left right flicks felt close. Irl in the s turns the car was planted, even when I lifted off the throttle. Getting back on too sharply would induce some rotation, naturally. In GT5 the car was more prone to rotate. even if the 55mph speed was similar.

Brake turn understeer was about the same. Plow the car on the brake and you get push. Pretty simple event, but its done properly.

Under heavy braking irl you could feel a little pull in the wheel. This is a feeling missing in GT5.

Overall this experience made me aware of a couple things. GT-next needs to change how tires breaking traction in oversteer is communicated to the player. New ffb effects would be nice, but things like the varying pitches of tire squeal also need major work. If I can't feel what happening then I can only see and hear. Ffb effects also fall on the hardware and the g25 is simply not up for the job. GT5 emulates how a car behaves reasonably well. Nothing should surprise you. And even car traits like safety understeer are well modeled. But there is just a lack of feeling (even ignoring g forces).

Feel free to take this as you may. Please leave me your constructive comments and criticisms in the comments below.
 
Nice comparison and analysis.

My real track experience is only limited to karting, and I don't push my everyday car to its limits since it's an old car and I'm afraid of breaking something in the process :P.

Lately I've been playing a lot of iRacing which seems to be considered one of the most realistic sims out there. However as I stated, I don't have much track experience with different cars to comment on the accuracy of the physics modelling. Though my style of driving has very nicely transitioned from one game to the other, I noticed the differences right away in iRacing while driving 300+ laps in a Mazda MX-5: loss of tire grip occurs very gradually like you mentioned. In GT5, I was often surprised by the sudden loss of grip, the wheel would go slack and the tire temp indicator would instantly turn red. This is not the case in the other sim and I feel like I have a better understanding of what the car is doing and a more fine/granular control.

Adding to what you said about heavy braking, I feel that brake oversteer and instability seem to be less prominent in GT5. I don't remember having to correct the car when I was braking in a slightly banked corner on the Nordschleife. The cars in GT seem to be very predictable under braking and offer very little feedback. Another one of my observations relates to ABS. In GT5 I would often spin out of control when I locked the brakes, sometimes even in a straight line. Maybe I'm just bad, but I often see professional drivers who lock brakes slide in a straight line. This is the case for me in iRacing where I can competently drive without ABS but it seems quite different in GT5. I remember amar posting that driving without ABS is much more manageable with a proper brake balance. But it makes me question why the game behaves this way.

Lastly, lift-off oversteer. Skip barber F2000 and MX-5 in iRacing have plenty of it whereas I never feel like any car behave this way in GT5 unless tuned to turn in this way. Again like I said, these are all observations I made and I don't necessarily believe that more accurate = more difficult. Also, it's difficult to compare cars from different games due to other factors like tuning and tires. At least, it reassures me that my views seem similar to yours.
 
paskowitz said:
Feel free to take this as you may. Please leave me your constructive comments and criticisms in the comments below.
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This is very much how I feel about driving my car (08 STI) and it's GT5 representation. The car in the game is a japanese model with smaller engine and higher rev limits, but handling wise it's a very good approximation.

None of the ridiculous amount of gear whine, rattling and odd noises from real life though.
 
Some of the most unique drifting that i've seen in GT5

btckpv.gif


a9jj1i.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_oJhoUqCI4#t=4m40s
 
SolidSnakex said:
Some of the most unique drifting that i've seen in GT5

http://www.abload.de/img/btckpv.gif/img]

[img]http://www.abload.de/img/a9jj1i.gif/img]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_oJhoUqCI4#t=4m40s[/url][/QUOTE]

This made me laugh:). And then I was impressed at how dust and smoke mix in the first shot.
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I bet it theoretically could be possible but the amount of added rl variables would make it much harder. And people probably don't like to risk wrecking their expensive performance car.
 
-Amon- said:
Who gives a shit, really.
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The Real Driving Simulator(TM)

Guess Polyphony should switch that to:

The Real Driving Arcade with physics that feel real only when we want you to think they're real(TM)
 
Who said it's not possible? You'd probably pass out so thats why it's not possible, but if you were a robot you could probably do that. I've seen stunt drivers do crazier things.
 
TheSeks said:
The Real Driving Simulator(TM)

Guess Polyphony should switch that to:

The Real Driving Arcade with physics that feel real only when we want you to think they're real(TM)
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If you have a 100% accurate physics engine, you could sell it for a good price , espencially if it runs on 6 years old hardware like the PS3 in realtime.

You can break every physics engine if you want. It's even for supercomputers impossible to simulate all different parameters in real-time, so you have to use many simplifications and tricks. And the GT5 engine is pretty much the best in the business.
 
Emwitus said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLJNruCg7sk&feature=related

Much better.
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You can't be serious.

Incase there was any debate in the sim physics hierarchy this is how it goes:

1. iRacing (Still the standard)
2. rFactor 2 Beta (If you have not tried it, its very impressive)
3. Richard Burns Rally (just for rally, but it does it almost perfectly)
4. NetKar Pro (Ferrari Virtual Academy is a great example of how great this engine can be)
5. GT5/FM4 (IMO they are equal. They do different things better than each other and in the end, end up at about the same level)
6. Live For Speed (FFB is good but I have driven a single car that handled like any car in LFS)
7. rFactor 1 w/ mods (sucks without mods)
8. GTR2, GTR Evolution/Race On/Race 07/etc (Decent, but a bit wonky due to age)
9. SimRaceWay Beta (Its not finished)
10. F1 201X
 
offshore said:
Well with no tyre pressure or contact patch simulation, it's really a simulator 0% of the time...
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Just because it isn't visually represented doesn't mean it's not calculated in the physics. Even the track temperature is taken into account.

Also what's with your sudden constant trolling?



@paskowitz, I'd still put rFactor 1 in front.
 
PdotMichael said:
I see you are just interested in trolling. go ahead
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An engine that is failing to take account of tyre pressure, contact patch and torque steer (when competitors are) cannot possibly be called the "best in the business".

Just pointing out your nonsense drivel is all I'm doing.
 
If the model accounted for air pressure we would have the option to adjust it. Polyphony don't give a toss about the tyre model - its been shit since forever. I'm still waiting for my narrow snow tyres.
 
Wax Free Vanilla said:
If the model accounted for air pressure we would have the option to adjust it. Polyphony don't give a toss about the tyre model - its been shit since forever. I'm still waiting for my narrow snow tyres.
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So because we can't upgrade brakes does it also mean they're not accounting for it?... One thing does not imply the other.

Check this video for example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlSovgF4D_E

The wheel goes underground and then "jumps" to its proper place. This happens because despite tyre flex/tyre pressure/etc not being visually represented it is still taken into account as far as physics calculations go. Notice how the actual frame of the car is behaving as it should.
 
You'd think after a 2 years, people would have convinced themselves to sell their copies of gt5 and buy the "real" simulators. Gotta give points for dedication tho.
 
offshore said:
An engine that is failing to take account of tyre pressure, contact patch and torque steer (when competitors are) cannot possibly be called the "best in the business".

Just pointing out your nonsense drivel is all I'm doing.
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You pointed not a single bad thing about the GT5 physics engine.

you are just a poor troll
 
Metalmurphy said:
says who?
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Says the absence of any definitive proof that it is. GT5 gives us absolutely no indication to prove that pressure is included in the simulation, as opposed to tyre temp and tyre load, which PD make an effort to describe and push.

Short of Polyphony saying what is happening, it would make absolutely zero sense to have an engine that is capable and adept at simulating different tyre pressures, but then failing to give us the option to change it. Even if GT5 is using a set value to simulate pressure (of which there is no proof), it is still pretty lacking given its crucial importance.

They either have an engine that is capable of handling different pressures, and if so, why are they not letting us change it? And if they do are are not, then it is yet another example in a long line of questionable PD decisions. Given all Kaz's "racing experience", you would think he of all people would understand the importance of having the ability to set different pressures.
 
offshore said:
Says the absence of any definitive proof that it is. GT5 gives us absolutely no indication to prove that pressure is included in the simulation, as opposed to tyre temp and tyre load, which PD make an effort to describe and push.

Short of Polyphony saying what is happening, it would make absolutely zero sense to have an engine that is capable and adept at simulating different tyre pressures, but then failing to give us the option to change it. Even if GT5 is using a set value to simulate pressure (of which there is no proof), it is still pretty lacking given its crucial importance.

They either have an engine that is capable of handling different pressures, and if so, why are they not letting us change it? And if they do are are not, then it is yet another example in a long line of questionable PD decisions. Given all Kaz's "racing experience", you would think he of all people would understand the importance of having the ability to set different pressures.
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Pretty much. Either they included it but don't let you change it, which is insulting and stupid, or they didn't include it.
 
offshore said:
Says the absence of any definitive proof that it is. GT5 gives us absolutely no indication to prove that pressure is included in the simulation, as opposed to tyre temp and tyre load, which PD make an effort to describe and push.

Short of Polyphony saying what is happening, it would make absolutely zero sense to have an engine that is capable and adept at simulating different tyre pressures, but then failing to give us the option to change it. Even if GT5 is using a set value to simulate pressure (of which there is no proof), it is still pretty lacking given its crucial importance.

They either have an engine that is capable of handling different pressures, and if so, why are they not letting us change it? And if they do are are not, then it is yet another example in a long line of questionable PD decisions. Given all Kaz's "racing experience", you would think he of all people would understand the importance of having the ability to set different pressures.
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Absence of knowledge it exists = proof it doesn't? lol

And imo stuff like this is already proof there's calculations going on under the hood that its not immediatly apparent, and it doesn't happen just in those extreme situations.

We also never knew PD accounted for a variable track temperature until someone asked him on twitter. By your logic, it would have never accounted for it.

And yes, the fact that you can't adjust is lacking, doesn't mean the actual physics engine is, in that department anyway.


Dead Man said:
Pretty much. Either they included it but don't let you change it, which is insulting and stupid, or they didn't include it.
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As with many other things in GT5, not as much as insulting but stupid/illogical.
 
woot! GT Academy starts today.

Will jump on this after work. Anyone already start?

edit; errr, found the main page.
 
Someone please ask Kaz on twitter about the tire physics and what it takes into account so we can get this nonsense out of the thread.
 
Is anybody else having an issue with not gaining XP for A Spec? Its been a long time since its moved my bar. I seem to be stuck at 38. I've done a load of Special Events and online races and it has not moved at all. It show that I am getting the XP, but not adding it to the bar.
 
Stoffinator said:
Is anybody else having an issue with not gaining XP for A Spec? Its been a long time since its moved my bar. I seem to be stuck at 38. I've done a load of Special Events and online races and it has not moved at all. It show that I am getting the XP, but not adding it to the bar.
Click to expand...
Levels 35-40 are a pain in the ass to reach. Make sure to have the multiplier to 200%.
The best way to earn XP are Seasonal Events, Endurance Races and Vettel Chalenges.

I never heard of issues with exp in A-Spec, but if you want to be sure, head to the gt website and, under My Home/Profile page, move the cursor over the A-Spec level and read the total exp. Then make a race, earn exp, wait for the server to upload the total, refresh the page on gt website and look if the total experience changed.
 
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