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Gran Turismo 5 Super GT League, presented by Mush & the NeoGAF Racing League.
- Thread starter Mush
- Start date
So, I heard you wanted a replay:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6GW2BEVA
View in cockpit if you want my view. But yeah, pretty shitty driving for me. It doesn't help that the triggers are not the best. | | that much is 1MPH crawl. While | | is 10-50MPH gain. While | | (fully pressed) is suddenly 50MPH gain. There's no true analog in the triggers, I found/feel.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6GW2BEVA
View in cockpit if you want my view. But yeah, pretty shitty driving for me. It doesn't help that the triggers are not the best. | | that much is 1MPH crawl. While | | is 10-50MPH gain. While | | (fully pressed) is suddenly 50MPH gain. There's no true analog in the triggers, I found/feel.
Metalmurphy
Member
Toxa said:
On normal replays yes. On online saved replays you only get the default replay view.
Seks there are two solutions I can think of.
1. You use the tips of the triggers only when pressing. That way you get more space to work with on the trigger press.
2. Use the right analogue stick for acceleration/brake. Hell you could use right stick for acceleration and L2 as brake if you really wanted to as well.
1. You use the tips of the triggers only when pressing. That way you get more space to work with on the trigger press.
2. Use the right analogue stick for acceleration/brake. Hell you could use right stick for acceleration and L2 as brake if you really wanted to as well.
EarsOfASnake
Member
Toxa said:
So how it stands is more professional yeah? people in the pits on lap 1, pitting 3 times a race for some, 6 laps down and the list goes on, in real life you rarely see that, let alone EVERY race.
It is pretty damn clear 5 races in that people cannot deal with the current rules, so lets change stuff now and get it sorted for season 2.
Light damage will penalize mistakes and it will also let those off who have silly accidents. Right now it penalizes everyone and hasn't been a case of driver A hit's the wall because driver B put 2 laps of pressure on him.
Toxa said:
This isn't real life, and this league was meant for anyone/everyone, so people of all skill levels joined.
There are some people that just can't handle the settings we have now. EVERY race we've had a number of cars limping around the track with damage as backmarkers. EVERY race.
For those who can handle it, the backmarkers make it a hazard for them, so it's not helping anyone enjoy the races more with our current settings.
As some of us have been saying, I think light damage is the easiest fix to help EVERYONE at this current stage of the league. For next season, we can come up with more drastic changes and make things more smooth.
Not everyone in the league can handle the professional/realistic/hardcore settings we have now.
Mush said:
*LawandOrderDOINKDOINK.mp3?*
The way I see it:
-PP system being added should help the premium SuperGT car differences even out a bit for weaker/better drivers.
-Mush needs another person in charge for races he isn't in or someone that's a neutral third party.
-Damage: On/off, choose one and then be realistic about the skill level required for it.
weekend_warrior
Banned
I'm firmly against using light damage. For me, race day is business day, no holds bar, put up or shut up. The chains come off, the damage comes on. It's why we have practice sessions, and why we spend all that time working on starting methods. Without the prospect of heavy damage looming over every corner it loses that excitement. It would feel no different then the practice races leading up to the race.
Maybe I'm just in the same boat as Toxa, and don't feel like we should change the league to appease the "casuals".
Maybe I'm just in the same boat as Toxa, and don't feel like we should change the league to appease the "casuals".
I'd just like to say, I can't make it to mid-week practices because of the fact they happen at 8:00am in the morning for me - which is simply undoable.
But having said that, I'm happy that I showed yesterday just how much of a fair and clean driver I am, given my epic 7 lap battle with Mush and the three-way scrap at the finish. Ultimately, it's all about driving sensibly.
Again though, while I'm happy with anything Mush decides to do as the administrator of this series regarding rules, I'd like to voice my support for switching damage off. That way, a mix-up with a back marker or any genuine accident will only result in lost time and not result in people losing entire laps limping back to the pitlane every 5 minutes.
But having said that, I'm happy that I showed yesterday just how much of a fair and clean driver I am, given my epic 7 lap battle with Mush and the three-way scrap at the finish. Ultimately, it's all about driving sensibly.
Again though, while I'm happy with anything Mush decides to do as the administrator of this series regarding rules, I'd like to voice my support for switching damage off. That way, a mix-up with a back marker or any genuine accident will only result in lost time and not result in people losing entire laps limping back to the pitlane every 5 minutes.
weekend_warrior said:
I agree with both you and Toxa, that I would rather keep things the way they are - I just don't feel that will work.
The league is sending a mixed message right now. In the beginning, it was stressed that anyone could join and was encouraged to participate. Come on down, step right up into this Super GT car.
Then, people are put into realistic settings such as heavy damage, no assists, long races, and 500HP cars. Clearly more of a hardcore setup (which I personally like).
I thought the rolling start could help (and it should have) but apparently people couldn't even do that.
I've put a ton of time into this league personally whether it's hosting practices or helping to come up with ideas to improve things. I feel like we're not getting anywhere when I see the way the drivers have reacted to race 5.
Clearly something is wrong if we're having the same problems as race 1 on race 5. We've issued NO penalties for anyone's race behavior so far, and apparently the slaps on the wrist saying "be more careful, you!" is not working.
I agree.weekend_warrior said:
Race day is where everything counts. We get caught up with back markers we pay. We hit a wall we pay. It's what makes the actual race exciting and nerve wreaking.
Now I wasn't in the last race but so far I've enjoyed having full damage on even if it has cost me some good points on the way.
I can't help but feel that sometimes people put more blame on the backmarkers than is called for. It's not always their fault and as a racing driver it's your responsibility to deal with what happens in front of you. Let me put it this way. If you are overtaking someone then it is your responsibility to get by without causing a crash.
I think back to SSR5 where I had two crashes and they were both my own fault because I expected the back marker to drive as I do but not everyone does or can.
I don't blame casual driver (or anyone else) I'm glad they are here with us.
it's the first season of the league, a season of learning, tHere were many mistakes, there will be many mistakes and a lot of things to improve for the next season. (the rules, driving skills)
The most important thing is to learn from our mistake, continuous improvement.
This Gran Turismo not burnout if you seek the ease by turning on the light damages it won't fix the issue.
there will always be cars bumping each other/ walls and they will never learn because they do not have to bear the consequences of their mistakes.
Our goal is to improve the league and our driving skills, I would like to see seks or anyone else make a clean race.
practice is the key!
I think the league should endure this storm to improve
it's the first season of the league, a season of learning, tHere were many mistakes, there will be many mistakes and a lot of things to improve for the next season. (the rules, driving skills)
The most important thing is to learn from our mistake, continuous improvement.
This Gran Turismo not burnout if you seek the ease by turning on the light damages it won't fix the issue.
there will always be cars bumping each other/ walls and they will never learn because they do not have to bear the consequences of their mistakes.
Our goal is to improve the league and our driving skills, I would like to see seks or anyone else make a clean race.
practice is the key!
I think the league should endure this storm to improve
EarsOfASnake
Member
UFRA said:
This is the issue, it's shouldn't be what people want but what we can actually deal with. I like the setting as they are, I have had countless races with Toxa, Niks and the usual crew who turn up for practice and there have been zero issues. Yet when double those numbers turn up to race does it work like that? No, it most definitely does not so let's deal with that. Yes, people should practice the tracks in big groups before hand and yes people should be more careful with their driving. Can we as a group directly do something about that? No, we can't force people to do any of that. Not everyone has time and not everyone can handle the cars as well as others, I very much doubt they give up part of their weekend to just bundle into people and waste an hour or so of their time.
What we can do is change settings to adapt for the players that take part. The top racers are very close, so much so that a 10second penalty (is that correct?) dealt by 'Light Damage' is more than enough to knock them off the pace significantly. With light damage, perhaps the group that finds themselves 3 or 4 laps down might at least be able to race amongst themselves, even if they can't keep up with the front runners.
I think we are beyond simple 'practice more' advice.
MVP - Toxa
SoSS - AndroidSWE
weekend_warrior
Banned
Toxa said:
That's really what it would feel like, changing the league to fit the lowest common denominator.
You see, along time ago, there was this dude called Mush, and he had a great idea. He thought he could make a Super GT League for all of GAF to enjoy! There would be much joy to be had he said.
But then he had a problem. He didn't know if there would be enough appeal to draw in a full grid, as the "hardcore" settings might turn people away. So he begged and he begged until he managed to get a full grid, full well knowing the potential consequences of having a half-and-half field. But still Mush pressed on, hoping for the best.
Oops.
But then he had a problem. He didn't know if there would be enough appeal to draw in a full grid, as the "hardcore" settings might turn people away. So he begged and he begged until he managed to get a full grid, full well knowing the potential consequences of having a half-and-half field. But still Mush pressed on, hoping for the best.
Oops.
Mush said:
Well, you can't exactly have the best of both worlds, you know? Go with what you want to do. Honestly, I'm filling in for AzRim because a) team was already behind b) First stream made it seem fun. But I don't seem to have the skill/ability to keep up with everyone else (generally just play GT5 against the AI offline or just freeruns). It's not a big deal to me (though I do feel I'm letting Dead Man down) and I try to stay out of the way of the people lapping me. But yeah...
>Can I haz MVPz and Sanz while we debate?
Toxa for MVP for coming from behind after that mishap at the start.
I don't honestly know who Translator-san would be.
InEffectMode
Member
MVP - Toxa
TSan - n/a still reviewing
Was able to get 1.33.689 in the damn epson.
TSan - n/a still reviewing
Was able to get 1.33.689 in the damn epson
.Mush said:
It was fucked up, I said that after the race. I didn't mention it here but they didn't clear the "practice"/waiting for people times by changing tracks and changing back. So that's how I was 4th.
As far as "one/two cars behind" rules, I tried to stay that way. I was hitting 2nd's rev limit while following the 1/2/3 cars. But Dibbs (or was it Niks? Forget) was swerving. I guess to prevent themselves from hitting the limit (why? When this is a game and thus the engine won't be completely blown apart just hitting the limiter for a lap) but it also slowed them down. Meh. :/
weekend_warrior
Banned
They serve like that to warm up the tires. And because it's fun.
As the rules stand right now,
they are only harming the hardcore crowd.
Put in mild damage, and slow drivers are still going to be slow and good drivers will drive the same up until now.
The only difference is their races will not be determined by slower cars, but by speed as it should be.
A little less hardcore?? Definetively!!
But is it more fun for everyone? YES!
It would be great if everyone was hardcore and professional and took the time to practice.
But in reality, not everyone is as skilled or as committed. There is no changing that.
they are only harming the hardcore crowd.
Put in mild damage, and slow drivers are still going to be slow and good drivers will drive the same up until now.
The only difference is their races will not be determined by slower cars, but by speed as it should be.
A little less hardcore?? Definetively!!
But is it more fun for everyone? YES!
It would be great if everyone was hardcore and professional and took the time to practice.
But in reality, not everyone is as skilled or as committed. There is no changing that.
I have the utmost respect for the err... "slower" cars. People like Chem (RIP), Seks and whatnot, who continue to show up even they know they aren't quite as quick as everyone else and (try) to have a good time. We should try at the very least to give some of that respect back, at least for this season.
What the fuck am I trying to say again?
What the fuck am I trying to say again?
Compromise: turn TC on. That would mean less experienced drivers would have it easier to control their car, less spin outs which for example would have avoided gutter's hit with Konosuke.UFRA said:
Very true. Keep your distance in places where it's impossible to overtake anyway (like Toxa did) or stay 3 feet behind like Gutterboy and I did and pay.Dibbz said:
I don't get this. When we all migrated from the first open lounge to the GAFSuperGT lounge I said that qualification starts immediately. We were already 45 minutes behind schedule and it made no sense to start with (another) practice session. That's why I didn't do a track reset. And that still doesn't explain it. I did a 1.37 lap and expected to start in the middle, but got placed in last position. Same for Toxa - he joined late, set an ok'ish lap time - but got placed in 8th. Toxa won and I placed 3rd (with a nice start in the pits to boot), so I don't think our lap times where among the worst. In fact I would go so far as to say that there's no chance in hell my lap time was the worst.TheSeks about qualification said:
Absolutely agree! Realizing that you're among the slowest guys around and still sticking around for a 20 lap race? That deserves all the respect you can get in my book. Especially as we have seen others drop out because they saw they couldn't get a podium...Mush said:
I think we could keep damage on but still make it easier for the guys that can't practice as much as the others.
I suggest we try enabling traction control and ASM for the next race. For the good drivers it makes no sense turning this on as it slows the car down a bit. But for the people struggling to control their cars this might help a lot. But it won't help them suddenly transform into first place or even a podium, just make them a bit less of a hazard and consequently make the race more enjoyable for them. I will try this out in the practice lounge later and see if it works.
My votes:
MVP - Toxa (prize should be a new ISP)
Spirit of Translator-San: eh.... me?
just kidding. I think Chim did very good in his first race, so my vote goes to him.Niks said:
in 3 races my car was damaged at suzuka (twice, the first time by a backmarker) and GVS and I didn't ask to deactivate the damages .
I watched your race a bit and you ruined your race when you tried to pass in a crazy spot, Why such haste ?
Sometimes you must question yourself, after so many practice with you I'm disappointed
drive a car safely is not impossible.
I agree with angst to enable driving aids
Toxa Im just going to say you and I have a difference of opinion and approach when it comes to racing.. Certainly I will not justify my actions to you.
However, I do wonder what tune would you be singing had you crashed lapping a limping car while on the lead
Anyways I think Ive said enough about the subject and Ill respect Mush decision regarding the matter.
However, I do wonder what tune would you be singing had you crashed lapping a limping car while on the lead
Anyways I think Ive said enough about the subject and Ill respect Mush decision regarding the matter.
seattle6418
Member
Niks said:Toxa Im just going to say you and I have a difference of opinion and approach when it comes to racing.. Certainly I will not justify my actions to you.
However, I do wonder what tune would you be singing had you crashed lapping a limping car while on the lead
Anyways I think Ive said enough about the subject and Ill respect Mush decision regarding the matter.
I don´t know if this has anything to do with overtaking manouvers during the race, (or incidents during practice that i´m not aware) but i was watching the race from Chim´s point of view, and that left sweeper just before T2 is not a place to overtake.
Cars are changing lanes and getting ready to brake, i believe the braking spot would be the place to go. Of course trouble would happen, and both of you wrecked afterwards.
I got to watch the replay again, but it did looked like a crazy move.
I agree that everyone needs to take it easy and wait for an opportunity to pass. I know you sometimes come up against a back marker and you feel you should get passed him as soon as possible but mistakes happen here and I don't think putting damage on light will really solve our problems.Toxa said:Sometimes you must question yourself, after so many practice with you I'm disappointed
If anything putting damage on light will mean there are no consequences for crazy overtaking.
Maybe we should try putting some assists on, like Angst and Toxa are suggesting, for people who would like them to try and make sure people are putting in the same kind of lap times.
The problems we seem to have right now are drivers are not on the same wavelength. All the fast drivers know how to make up time through corners but the guys at the back drive on a different line meaning when you come up against a backmarker it's hard to understand what they are doing.
Assists should help so I'm throwing my vote in for it.
gutterboy44
Member
Out off all the suggestions I think the light damage is the best option. It still will hinder the good racers to the point where they will avoid even light damage at all costs, but it won't be a race ending frustration-fest for the better drivers getting caught out by the slower or less experienced drivers every race.
Remember folks, this is going to be a disaster at The Ring in three rounds. I definitely thing we need light damage on for The Ring. Getting smashed by someone in turn two and having to limp around the entire Nordschliefe will have folks rage quitting in a heart beat.
Remember folks, this is going to be a disaster at The Ring in three rounds. I definitely thing we need light damage on for The Ring. Getting smashed by someone in turn two and having to limp around the entire Nordschliefe will have folks rage quitting in a heart beat.
I definitely like the idea of allowing TCS and ASM for those who want it. I remember day 1 of Suzuka practice I said I wished we allowed TCS lol. I managed to tame my car since then, but for those who don't play much I'm sure it's very hard hopping into these cars with 0 assists once a week. Also hard for DS3 users.
Gutterboy also has a VERY good point. Even if the decision is made to keep damage heavy, I would at least suggest we put it on light for the Ring.
Gutterboy also has a VERY good point. Even if the decision is made to keep damage heavy, I would at least suggest we put it on light for the Ring.
gutterboy44 said:
I was worried about this too, but the pit entrance is where it normally is on the GP track - just before you get onto the Nordschleife. So you have about 6-7 corners where it won't be so bad if you get damage, and then about 150 where it's ragequit time
Anyway, I'm against going light damage on the 'ring. It should be a track that separates the men from the boys, where you have to be 100% confident and careful to get a good lap time. If we go light damage it takes that away from it - you can just push like hell with little (well, a lot less) consequence. I completely agree with the point about getting crashed into, but IMO that is a minor thing compared to what I've just said.
Couldn't we use the thing that makes cars into ghosts when they lose control (I think that's heavy penalty)?
EarsOfASnake
Member
ashk said:I was worried about this too, but the pit entrance is where it normally is on the GP track - just before you get onto the Nordschleife. So you have about 6-7 corners where it won't be so bad if you get damage, and then about 150 where it's ragequit time
Anyway, I'm against going light damage on the 'ring. It should be a track that separates the men from the boys, where you have to be 100% confident and careful to get a good lap time. If we go light damage it takes that away from it - you can just push like hell with little (well, a lot less) consequence. I completely agree with the point about getting crashed into, but IMO that is a minor thing compared to what I've just said.
Couldn't we use the thing that makes cars into ghosts when they lose control (I think that's heavy penalty)?
There have been a couple of instances of people saying this, it's such a poor excuse of ' Well yeah, you turn the damage off and I'll just throw myself into walls/other drivers because it won't matter'. If we go light damage are you guys really going to act like that, really? Oh and so far it would appear that every track has seperated the 'men from the boys', the ring will seperate peoples controllers from their hands.
MVP- Gutterboy, was dominating early in the race, got in a messy accident with me and dropped to 7th and still managed to finish 2nd. Wut.
Spirit of Translator-san: Toxa, finished without a scratch.
I won't talk about rule changes since I only did a single race so far but I would really like if parade laps are in the next laps. This one didn't work so well, but I feel that it can really work at Fuji.
Spirit of Translator-san: Toxa, finished without a scratch.
I won't talk about rule changes since I only did a single race so far but I would really like if parade laps are in the next laps. This one didn't work so well, but I feel that it can really work at Fuji.
MikeDub said:
The thing is you drive differently during a qualifying lap and a race lap. If you go light damage you will most likely try to go faster than you would if it were heavy damage but not as fast as a qualifying lap since you don't want to spin out, but hitting the wall isn't such a big problem.
Also, light damage might make people more aggressive regarding overtaking (or defending from an overtake) - a bump with another car (not necessarily deliberate) doesn't have the same risk involved.
weekend_warrior
Banned
Has Mush posted the race recap and new standings yet?