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[Neuromancer]

I'm assuming you only get prize money from seasonal events once; is that correct?

 

[phosphor112]

NASCAR?.. Try with a car that actually has downforce. LMPs around La Sarthe are faster with lower downforce due to the long straights. There is a considerable difference it top speed depending on the downforce.

Also how did you test, what slipstream setting did you use? Plus your knowledge of GT5 is not what you think it is. Cars under 600pp were faster with no wing, above that faster with one. Though less skilled drivers were always faster with more downforce.

Doing the "like the wind" races shows how much aerodynamics makes a difference now. Older cars, like the Toronado hit their non-drafting top speed very quick even though it has plenty more "oomph" in it. While other cars, like The Ferrari FXX is very aerodynamically sound. Allowing it to go much faster than other cars without drafting.

I'm assuming you only get prize money from seasonal events once; is that correct?

Yep.

 

[FootballFan]

Game is brilliant. The Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 is a joy to drive. Online has been great, have not experienced any issues with it. Career progression has improved from the previous game, so that is a bonus. Have only 20 or so stars to go, so I am nearing single player completion. And after that it`s all about Online and Time Trials.

Is there a car with a higher top speed than the Bugatti Veyron? I ask this because I set a 470km/h record (No NOS, but fully upgraded with transmission modified), and was looking for a car that could possibly beat that.

 

[Razgreez]

NASCAR?.. Try with a car that actually has downforce. LMPs around La Sarthe are faster with lower downforce due to the long straights. There is a considerable difference it top speed depending on the downforce.

Also how did you test, what slipstream setting did you use? Plus your knowledge of GT5 is not what you think it is. Cars under 600pp were faster with no wing, above that faster with one. Though less skilled drivers were always faster with more downforce.

Also, downforce does effect your PP. I attached a rear spoiler to the Delta Integrale for the seasonal event and it hit me with something like a 50PP penalty

Managed to finish/gold almost all S class events (including the licences but minus the drift coffee break) in one sitting. Was disappointed that tyre wear (when it hit 3 you're in trouble) was more of a challenge than changing weather though and finished one race by rolling over the finish line on empty

 

[nasanu]

Also, downforce does effect your PP. I attached a rear spoiler to the Delta Integrale for the seasonal event and it hit me with something like a 50PP penalty

Its not the wing that does that. Maybe you attached a flat floor? The flat floor acts like a form of downforce and significantly adds to the pp rating.

 

[Razgreez]

Its not the wing that does that. Maybe you attached a flat floor? The flat floor acts like a form of downforce and significantly adds to the pp rating.

Could be that, will check when i next fire the game up

 

[Toxa]

Saturday or Sunday?

TBA Maybe sat

 

[ruttyboy]

Sooo, does anyone actually know why the Redbull stuff is a week late and counting?

The only thing I can think is it was supposed to tie into all the online updates promised in January and because they're not ready the whole thing is sliding?

Also, here we see the genius of PD's minimum communication style, because no one knows what's going on, and no one even knows who to ask about it, no one seems to be talking about it.

 

[gutterboy44]

Also, downforce does effect your PP. I attached a rear spoiler to the Delta Integrale for the seasonal event and it hit me with something like a 50PP penalty

Managed to finish/gold almost all S class events (including the licences but minus the drift coffee break) in one sitting. Was disappointed that tyre wear (when it hit 3 you're in trouble) was more of a challenge than changing weather though and finished one race by rolling over the finish line on empty

Attaching parts might add PP, but adjusting your downforce settings in your car setup no longer changes your PP rating. At some point they added that to GT5 where increasing downforce in car settings raised your PP rating. This makes sense because only on tracks like Le Mans, SS7 and SSX, do you start to get a trade off between downforce and drag. Even at Spa, the 15th Anniversary Audio R8 LMS or whatever the model name is, I was easily able to improve my time by over two seconds the first hot lap after putting all of my downforce to full. Anyone who is familiar with Spa, knows that you never would run full downforce at that track in real life. Between half total downforce and full downforce only accounted for an additional ~2mph top speed on the first straight after Eau Rouge. With tire wear off, full downforce is faster on the majority of GT6 tracks. Turn on tire wear? Full downforce is the fastest option period. Excessive slip while cornering destroys your tires in GT6 and cranking up the downforce eliminates a shit load of slip. Not only will you have quicker lap times with full downforce, you will get at least an extra full lap on softs, sometimes even more. GT doesn't account for the increased loading of your tires trough the corners in a high downforce setup. Basically, if you keep your tires quiet, it means they are lasting longer. It was the same in GT5 and seems nothing has changed.

 

[Razgreez]

GT doesn't account for the increased loading of your tires trough the corners in a high downforce setup. Basically, if you keep your tires quiet, it means they are lasting longer. It was the same in GT5 and seems nothing has changed.

Aren't higher downforce setups always easier on tires though? Increased grip means decreased slip which is by far the greatest factor in tire wear if memory serves.

One other thing I noticed, although once again it might just be my driving style, is that once I hit the front in a race I usually tend to short shift in order to save fuel and be easier on the tires. This seems to be quite effective however I have it has occurred that, whereas before I have switched to fuel saving mode the front tires are usually the ones taking the punishment, after switching to fuel saving it's the rears that are always the first to go

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Had a quick look at the game with the new cfw ps3 debugger:

Weather system

SUNNY
CLOUDY
RAINY
HEAVY_RAIN
SNOWY
HEAVY_SNOW
SUNNY_CLOUDY
SUNNY_RAINY
CLOUDY_SUNNY
CLOUDY_RAINY
RAINY_SUNNY
RAINY_CLOUDY
SUNNY_CLOUDY_RAINY
SUNNY_RAINY_CLOUDY
CLOUDY_SUNNY_RAINY
CLOUDY_RAINY_SUNNY
RAINY_SUNNY_CLOUDY
RAINY_CLOUDY_SUNNY
RANDOM_NO_SNOW
RANDOM_NO_RAIN
RANDOM_NO_SNOW_NO_RAIN
SUNNY_DYNAMIC
CLOUDY_DYNAMIC
RAINY_DYNAMIC
HEAVY_RAIN_DYNAMIC
SNOWY_DYNAMIC
HEAVY_SNOW_DYNAMIC
CUSTOMIZED
A
B
C

Maybe possible to get snow on tracks with weather enabled.

Flag system

FLAG_NONE
FLAG_BLUE
FLAG_OIL
FLAG_GREEN
FLAG_WHITE
FLAG_ORANGE
FLAG_BLACK
FLAG_13
FLAG_14
FLAG_YELLOW0
FLAG_YELLOW1
FLAG_YELLOW2
FLAG_15
FLAG_16
FLAG_RED
FLAG_CHEQUERED
FLAGSET_NONE
FLAGSET_NORMAL
FLAGSET_F1
FLAGSET_NASCAR
FLAGSET_LOW
FLAGSET_RALLY

Only the chequered flag is present in the game currently.

Game modes

DriftMode
DRAG
SpeedTest
NASCAR
Rally
Arcade

Extra hud options

display_brake
display_gear_pos
display_steer_angle
display_wheel_speed_fl
display_wheel_speed_fr
display_wheel_speed_rl
display_wheel_speed_rr
display_sus_stroke_fl
display_sus_stroke_fr
display_sus_stroke_rl
display_sus_stroke_rr
display_load_fl
display_load_fr
display_load_rl
display_load_rr
display_brake_rotor_temp_fl
display_brake_rotor_temp_fr
display_brake_rotor_temp_rl
display_brake_rotor_temp_rr
display_engine_rpm
display_oil_pressure
display_boost_pressure
display_fuel_consumption
display_mph

Sound effects

SoundEffectMasterParameter
Transfer_parameter_set

car_exhaust_cockpit
car_engine_r_cockpit
car_engine_f_cockpit
car_nos
car_brake
car_tire_sound
car_horn
car_crash
car_tire_landing
car_harshness
car_turbulence
car_transmission
car_wastegate
car_blowoff
car_supercharger
car_turbocharger
car_afterfire
car_exhaust
car_engine

SoundEffect
TransferParameterSet

car_mirror_sound
open_car_cockpit
race_car_body
race_car_cockpit
normal_car_body
normal_car_cockpit

SoundEffectViewDependentVolume

another_car

SoundEffectParameter
cone_inner_angle
pitch
gain_hf
gain
flags
direction
position

Will tinker about with these later...

Simple livery creator that Kaz mentioned?

NumberPlateCustomizable
DeckenCustomizable
WindowStickerCustomizable

Motorbikes

yamaha
kawasaki
aprilia
mvagusta
yoshimura
moriwaki
buell
ducati
_7honda
ysp_presto
trickstar
yoshimura_suzuki
moriwaki_motul

There's stuff about course marker, gps, b-spec so these must be coming soon? Will continue my search later for the cars and tracks.

 

[gutterboy44]

Aren't higher downforce setups always easier on tires though? Increased grip means decreased slip which is by far the greatest factor in tire wear if memory serves.

One other thing I noticed, although once again it might just be my driving style, is that once I hit the front in a race I usually tend to short shift in order to save fuel and be easier on the tires. This seems to be quite effective however I have it has occurred that, whereas before I have switched to fuel saving mode the front tires are usually the ones taking the punishment, after switching to fuel saving it's the rears that are always the first to go

The increased cornering speeds/loads you can get with a high downforce setup will definitely wear tires fast. Look at tracks like Barcelona where F1 (very high downforce) tear through the front left tire. It isn't because cars are drifting around that track. It is because of turn 3,9,12 and 16.

 

[ruttyboy]

The increased cornering speeds/loads you can get with a high downforce setup will definitely wear tires fast. Look at tracks like Barcelona where F1 (very high downforce) tear through the front left tire. It isn't because cars are drifting around that track. It is because of turn 3,9,12 and 16.

But that's not to do with the downforce, that's to do with comparative use of the tyres on any given track. If you did the same thing without downforce, the tyres would all wear out quicker, but the front left would still be the first to go.

On the F1 commentary, Coulthard and Brundle always go on about how when you're slipstreaming another car the lack of downforce increases tyre wear as they are moving about more.

 

[Betta Lines]

The increased cornering speeds/loads you can get with a high downforce setup will definitely wear tires fast. Look at tracks like Barcelona where F1 (very high downforce) tear through the front left tire. It isn't because cars are drifting around that track. It is because of turn 3,9,12 and 16.

I think it is a more confusing set of variables. The increased cornering speeds (and the demand for higher downforce) at tracks like Barcelona are because the corners themselves are fast, they are not the direct result of downforce. The effect of downforce on a tyre is a combination of reduced lateral load and increased vertical load, so it is reducing wear/slip, which allows you to go faster, which itself may be increasing wear. But if you ran a lower downforce, but managed to get the tyres to same level of wear/slip at lower cornering speed, would they wear just as quickly? Too many variables already.

 

[gutterboy44]

But that's not to do with the downforce, that's to do with comparative use of the tyres on any given track. If you did the same thing without downforce, the tyres would all wear out quicker, but the front left would still be the first to go.

On the F1 commentary, Coulthard and Brundle always go on about how when you're slipstreaming another car the lack of downforce increases tyre wear as they are moving about more.

I'm not saying tires wear in one way and not the other. It seems GT only considers sliding around to wear tires, but not cornering faster and harder. With the same tire compound, If I can go around a corner at 100mph, no sliding, it is going to wear out the tires faster than if I can only go around it at 60mph no sliding. Downforce presses the tires in the tarmac more, you are compressing the tire more, this takes a toll on tirewear. You can drastically increase your cornering speeds in GT with very little drag or tire wear trade off. This goes back to the how GT models tire heat. Sustained high load cornering, as long as you don't make the tires scream in GT, never gets your tires to orange and red, which are a death sentence for tire wear in GT. So I can corner faster, cleaner and keep my tires from over heating with higher downforce, it is win win. The extra heat put in to tires at those faster cornering speeds and higher loads is minimal. That is all I am saying. I am not saying sliding around shouldn't chew up tires, it should. But cranking up the downforce has trade offs. I find GT models almost none of them. Drag being the biggest and most obvious one. Ask anyone who raced the NGRL Super GT series back in GT5. We ran full downforce on all of the tracks. It was a no brainer. If this were the case, only a select handful or real world tracks would see cars running with anything other than the most maximum amount of wing, this is obviously not the case.

 

[phosphor112]

Attaching parts might add PP, but adjusting your downforce settings in your car setup no longer changes your PP rating. At some point they added that to GT5 where increasing downforce in car settings raised your PP rating. This makes sense because only on tracks like Le Mans, SS7 and SSX, do you start to get a trade off between downforce and drag. Even at Spa, the 15th Anniversary Audio R8 LMS or whatever the model name is, I was easily able to improve my time by over two seconds the first hot lap after putting all of my downforce to full. Anyone who is familiar with Spa, knows that you never would run full downforce at that track in real life. Between half total downforce and full downforce only accounted for an additional ~2mph top speed on the first straight after Eau Rouge. With tire wear off, full downforce is faster on the majority of GT6 tracks. Turn on tire wear? Full downforce is the fastest option period. Excessive slip while cornering destroys your tires in GT6 and cranking up the downforce eliminates a shit load of slip. Not only will you have quicker lap times with full downforce, you will get at least an extra full lap on softs, sometimes even more. GT doesn't account for the increased loading of your tires trough the corners in a high downforce setup. Basically, if you keep your tires quiet, it means they are lasting longer. It was the same in GT5 and seems nothing has changed.

Sounds like a cluster fuck...

 

[Betta Lines]

With the same tire compound, If I can go around a corner at 100mph, no sliding, it is going to wear out the tires faster than if I can only go around it at 60mph no sliding. Downforce presses the tires in the tarmac more, you are compressing the tire more, this takes a toll on tirewear.

Still too many variables I think. If you're achieving exactly the same small degree of slip as you take this corner at 60 and 100, then the grip level is almost identical, so the wear should be pretty similar. Will increased vertical load increase wear? Possibly, but consider: with more vertical load the tyre at 100mph is also distributing its forces across a wider contact patch. The corner is also completed faster. Then there is tyre pressure... which is another huge can of worms. Higher speed might mean higher pressures, meaning the tyre might be working more optimally, which might mean it's wearing less.

 

[gutterboy44]

Still too many variables I think. If you're achieving exactly the same small degree of slip as you take this corner at 60 and 100, then the grip level is almost identical, so the wear should be pretty similar. Will increased vertical load increase wear? Possibly, but consider: with more vertical load the tyre at 100mph is also distributing its forces across a wider contact patch. The corner is also completed faster. Then there is tyre pressure... which is another huge can of worms. Higher speed might mean higher pressures, meaning the tyre might be working more optimally, which might mean it's wearing less.

There are undoubtedly a tremendous amount of variables. But in my described scenario, assuming you are not excessively sliding the car, the way in which you are able to corner at 100mph v. 60mph due to the addition of downforce (and no change to tire pressure because PD laughs at the significance of tire pressures in cars) you in turn increase the contact patch, aka deforming the tire more. You are making the tire more flat at a point, every time the tire deforms, you are getting heat. This heat, seemingly does not make its way into the GT tire temp gauges. With the same exact tire compound and car, in GT6, going around Route X at 300mph yeilds you "colder tires" (technically bluer gauges, since we have no idea exactly what the fuck they represent) than getting a little slidly at like 60mph at turn 1 of GVS. It is ridiculous.

Edit: Back to the tire physics articles! Seems this tire wear situation is drastically different when dealing with slicks v. treaded tires in regards to downforce. I don't want to speak in any certainties about real world scenarios. I can only speak to the imbalance and huge advantage high downforce setups yeild in both GT5 and GT6.

Edit 2: Yeah. The best I can get from some quick research are the givens that downforce increases the available grip to a tire in two ways. The increased dynamic and static friction (by pressing the tire down into the tarmac harder) and the increased contact patch size (by deforming the tire more to allow a larger surface area to come in contact with the tarmac). How the trade off of tire compression, contact patch sizes, higher speeds, heat generated, reduced tread tear v. tread tire at higher speeds (more energy ?) relates does not seem to have a nice clean answer.

 

[Razgreez]

Still too many variables I think. If you're achieving exactly the same small degree of slip as you take this corner at 60 and 100, then the grip level is almost identical, so the wear should be pretty similar. Will increased vertical load increase wear? Possibly, but consider: with more vertical load the tyre at 100mph is also distributing its forces across a wider contact patch. The corner is also completed faster. Then there is tyre pressure... which is another huge can of worms. Higher speed might mean higher pressures, meaning the tyre might be working more optimally, which might mean it's wearing less.

From my experience listening to various F1 pundits it's usually been a case of the car with the higher efficient aerodynamic downforce being able to rely less on pure mechanical grip and thus take less life out of the tyres. Eg. redbull vs mercedes this passed year. Not that i'm saying F1 has much of a direct correlation with other motorsport due to the purposeful detuning of the tyres

 

[MaDKaT]

Had a quick look at the game with the new cfw ps3 debugger:

*snip*

Motorbikes

yamaha
kawasaki
aprilia
mvagusta
yoshimura
moriwaki
buell
ducati
_7honda
ysp_presto
trickstar
yoshimura_suzuki
moriwaki_motul


*snip*.

Very interesting. Does anyone know if these files were present in GT5?

 

[The Stig]

So I'm enjoying the game, all fine. Except, could anyone give me some tips for the drift challenge in national A?

I just keep completely washing out.

 

[Betta Lines]

With the same exact tire compound and car, in GT6, going around Route X at 300mph yeilds you "colder tires" (technically bluer gauges, since we have no idea exactly what the fuck they represent) than getting a little slidly at like 60mph at turn 1 of GVS. It is ridiculous.

I would take this is an indication that the gauges are showing temperature flashes on the surface caused by slip (as in our original discussion) rather than the slower build up of heat from increased downforce. However I would expect that after an extended run at very high speed, the gauges should have changed slightly in colour from a build up of tyre temperature deeper in the carcass, represented slightly on this surface temp gauge. Is that not the case?

 

[gutterboy44]

From my experience listening to various F1 pundits it's usually been a case of the car with the higher efficient aerodynamic downforce being able to rely less on pure mechanical grip and thus take less life out of the tyres. Eg. redbull vs mercedes this passed year. Not that i'm saying F1 has much of a direct correlation with other motorsport due to the purposeful detuning of the tyres

I am starting to agree with you guys after reading more. The main question is, this is racing, so no one is going around at precisely the same speed with this better downforce and thus better wear. You give a race car more grip, it will push to go faster. The part I can't seem to get an answer about is so now that you are cornering faster, with this increased speed, does say 1 degree of slip at 100mph fuck your tires up more than say 5 degrees of slip at 60mph. That I can't figure out.

 

[phosphor112]

Had a quick look at the game with the new cfw ps3 debugger:

car_harshness
Wonder what this is

DRAG
SpeedTest
Two new modes

display_sus_stroke_fl
display_sus_stroke_fr
display_sus_stroke_rl
display_sus_stroke_rr
display_brake_rotor_temp_fl
display_brake_rotor_temp_fr
display_brake_rotor_temp_rl
display_brake_rotor_temp_rr
So far there is no way to view either of these. (I don't recall if the option to view the load is in so far either.

SoundEffect
TransferParameterSet

car_mirror_sound
open_car_cockpit
race_car_body
race_car_cockpit
normal_car_body
normal_car_cockpit
These seem to be the sound modifiers for 1st and 3rd person view. And they have an independent sound modifier for open (convertible) cars.

SoundEffectViewDependentVolume

another_car

SoundEffectParameter
cone_inner_angle
pitch
gain_hf
gain
flags
direction
position
These are possibly the variables used for determining what other cars around you sound like, or for replay views.

I also hope those motorbikes show up

So I'm enjoying the game, all fine. Except, could anyone give me some tips for the drift challenge in national A?

I just keep completely washing out.

Is that the S2000 drift?

No TCS.
No ASM.
ABS 1
Active Steering Mild
(When you get a hang of it, try turning of ABS. It makes the car more slippery for some reason.. even when NOT braking... Then feel free to turn off Active Steering later on as well).

Change the tires off of soft, put them on medium (hard is probably to slippery if you're having trouble).

And most importantly, manual.

3rd gear provides enough speed and torque to kick you out into a drift. Counter steer (with the assistance of active steering) you should be able to get a general hang of the thing. Honestly, it should come fairly easily. SRF should be off as well, I think it is default LOCKED off for this even though...

Anyway. Give that a shot.

Also, you don't live up to your username. =P

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Those bikes were in every GT game after Tourist Tourist



AstronomySetting
systemEnable
renderMilkyWay
renderSaturn
renderJupiter
renderMars
renderVenus
renderMercury
renderMoon
renderEarth
renderSun


We must be getting a Gran Turismo PDI spacecraft to explore space

 

[gutterboy44]

I would take this is an indication that the gauges are showing temperature flashes on the surface caused by slip (as in our original discussion) rather than the slower build up of heat from increased downforce. However I would expect that after an extended run at very high speed, the gauges should have changed slightly in colour from a build up of tyre temperature deeper in the carcass, represented slightly on this surface temp gauge. Is that not the case?

At speeds of 300mph + you are going to have hot as shit tires everywhere in the tire from what I grasped from all the articles I looked up last time we talked about this. Every compression and decompression of the tire at the contact point is heating up the tire from the friction of the rubber stretching and compressing. Since the tire rotates, all of the tire is getting this heat from every rotation. Go faster, rotate the tire faster, increase the rate of compress and decompress, and therefore heat. Even in a theoretical slipless 100% static friction rolling tire situation you will still build up tire heat at the surface, core, sidewall, etc. (unless you had a theoretical perfectly round tire) This is why tires are hot on highways, and why the Veyron needs special tires for its high speed runs on perfect straightaways. I don't think GT is simply modeling surface temperature. I think it is nothing more than a crude abstraction of tire temp in general. Look at Waxfree vanillas post, if the HUD option are any indication of the data they are polling, there isn't much in the way of tire temps. The lack of tire pressures in GT is also a strong indication they don't model fuck all for temps seeing as you really can't start to worry about one without the other.

 

[dubc35]

Those bikes were in every GT game after Tourist Tourist



AstronomySetting
systemEnable
renderMilkyWay
renderSaturn
renderJupiter
renderMars
renderVenus
renderMercury
renderMoon
renderEarth
renderSun


We must be getting a Gran Turismo PDI spacecraft to explore space

Yeah, I feel they leave in a lot of references ot text in their code from previous games. Also remember all the legacy tracks (midfield, seattle, etc) and icons were in GT5 code but never used.

 

[phosphor112]

Those bikes were in every GT game after Tourist Tourist



AstronomySetting
systemEnable
renderMilkyWay
renderSaturn
renderJupiter
renderMars
renderVenus
renderMercury
renderMoon
renderEarth
renderSun


We must be getting a Gran Turismo PDI spacecraft to explore space

I want to take my Dodge Ram Laramie on the fucking moon.

 

[gutterboy44]

I can't help but laugh at the simultaneous conversation we are having in a GT6 thread. We have Wax Free Vanillia digging out the ridiculousness of buried star and planet data shit, and then a few of us discussing tire issues/anomalies since GT still has no meaningful tire temperature data and tire pressure settings. PD priorities, don't try to understand them.

 

[Razgreez]

At speeds of 300mph + you are going to have hot as shit tires everywhere in the tire from what I grasped from all the articles I looked up last time we talked about this. Every compression and decompression of the tire at the contact point is heating up the tire from the friction of the rubber stretching and compressing. Since the tire rotates, all of the tire is getting this heat from every rotation. Go faster, rotate the tire faster, increase the rate of compress and decompress, and therefore heat. Even in a theoretical slipless 100% static friction rolling tire situation you will still build up tire heat at the surface, core, sidewall, etc. (unless you had a theoretical perfectly round tire) This is why tires are hot on highways, and why the Veyron needs special tires for its high speed runs on perfect straightaways. I don't think GT is simply modeling surface temperature. I think it is nothing more than a crude abstraction of tire temp in general. Look at Waxfree vanillas post, if the HUD option are any indication of the data they are polling, there isn't much in the way of tire temps. The lack of tire pressures in GT is also a strong indication they don't model fuck all for temps seeing as you really can't start to worry about one without the other.

I'm going to disagree with you here based on the recent usage of thermal cameras in F1. In the instances where the cars were driving at constant speeds of 300+ (eg. shanghai back straight) the tires were actually operating at relatively low temperatures compared the temperature of the tyre during acceleration. Temperatures only really spiked during braking, hard/low speed acceleration and tight medium speed cornering (which was/is displayed by clearly discernible heat stress bands on the tyres when viewed through the onboard thermal cameras) - though F1 cars have so much downforce every corner is basically medium to high speed

 

[gutterboy44]

I'm going to disagree with you here based on the recent usage of thermal cameras in F1. In the instances where the cars were driving at constant speeds of 300+ (eg. shanghai back straight) the tires were actually operating at relatively low temperatures compared the temperature of the tyre during acceleration. Temperatures only really spiked during braking, hard/low speed acceleration and tight medium speed cornering (which was/is displayed by clearly discernible heat stress bands on the tyres when viewed through the onboard thermal cameras)

Because F1 is open wheel. On a long straight like shanghai, you are now dealing with the cooling effects of tremendous air flow across the exterior of the tire. This is going to primarily cool the surface (what the thermal camera is showing) of the tire, this does not mean heat isn't being generated from rotation.

Edit: This is very easy to test in real life. Go get in your car. Drive on some straight roads at 35mph for 10 minutes. Pull over, no insane braking or anything, touch your tires. Now go drive 75mph on the highway for 10 minutes. Pull over, same thing, no threshold braking or anything that would put in a lot of heat, touch your tires. Guess which scenario will have hotter tires? This is isn't some crazy fringe theory here. This is a basic principle and also why under inflated tires overheat easier.

Edit 2: Found this as well regarding road tires. More speed and more load (downforce) can affect tire wear. Source - A good How Stuff Works on the basics of tires.

Temperature: The tire temperature ratings are A, B or C. The rating is a measure of how well the tire dissipates heat and how well it handles the buildup of heat. The temperature grade applies to a properly inflated tire that is not overloaded. Underinflation, overloading or excessive speed can lead to more heat buildup. Excessive heat buildup can cause tires to wear out faster, or could even lead to tire failure. According to this NHTSA page, the Firestone Wilderness AT and Radial ATX II tires have a temperature rating of C.

 

[Betta Lines]

The part I can't seem to get an answer about is so now that you are cornering faster, with this increased speed, does say 1 degree of slip at 100mph fuck your tires up more than say 5 degrees of slip at 60mph. That I can't figure out.

Seems very difficult to find specifics about that, but my gut reaction is that the 5 degrees of slip at 60mph that would wear the tyres faster. I think increased slip in the majority of scenarios is going to be the primary cause of wear.

At speeds of 300mph + you are going to have hot as shit tires everywhere in the tire from what I grasped from all the articles I looked up last time we talked about this. Every compression and decompression of the tire at the contact point is heating up the tire from the friction of the rubber stretching and compressing. Since the tire rotates, all of the tire is getting this heat from every rotation. Go faster, rotate the tire faster, increase the rate of compress and decompress, and therefore heat. Even in a theoretical slipless 100% static friction rolling tire situation you will still build up tire heat at the surface, core, sidewall, etc. (unless you had a theoretical perfectly round tire) This is why tires are hot on highways, and why the Veyron needs special tires for its high speed runs on perfect straightaways. I don't think GT is simply modeling surface temperature. I think it is nothing more than a crude abstraction of tire temp in general. Look at Waxfree vanillas post, if the HUD option are any indication of the data they are polling, there isn't much in the way of tire temps. The lack of tire pressures in GT is also a strong indication they don't model fuck all for temps seeing as you really can't start to worry about one without the other.

Do they definitely not model pressures? I've not seen any indication that they do, but nor have I seen confirmation that they don't. As for how complex their tyre model is, I would like to think that there is some depth to it, with at least two components to the temperature simulation, a core temperature and a surface temperature, or some kind of blending across the tread depth. If that is the case, the explanation that the gauges only represent a surface reading make enough sense to me as I watch the colours change in normal driving conditions. It explains why there are flashes of colour during slip and settling back to normal immediately after, and why it takes longer to settle if you add heat over a long period. However, it could indeed be a 'crude abstraction' as you say, a single value for each wheel with an equation attached, that results in quick flashes and longer settling periods after big slides/burnouts. However they're doing it, the behaviour in normal conditions doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

But if there is no indication of heat build up at 300mph then their model is definitely unsuitable for this extreme scenario, and it's possible that it demonstrates they aren't modelling heat caused by rolling friction at high speed, only slip. It's also possible that downforce in their simulation only reduces the chances of slip, thus being less likely to wear, and the speed and vertical load having no detrimental effects on wear (but I'm not sure about this in reality either).

 

[MemoryHumanity]

This game feels so fucking good with the Driving Force GT. I've been playing Forza 4 (great game) with the Microsoft Racing Wheel (OK wheel) for a week or two, but GT6 is on a different level!

 

[Kelas]

Man, the Ferrari Daytona is such a nice car to drive. Used it to beat the first race of the Historic racing cup. Slammed that fucking Toyota 7 against the outside barriers of rascasse on the final lap though. Completely justified.

 

[phosphor112]

I can't help but laugh at the simultaneous conversation we are having in a GT6 thread. We have Wax Free Vanillia digging out the ridiculousness of buried star and planet data shit, and then a few of us discussing tire issues/anomalies since GT still has no meaningful tire temperature data and tire pressure settings. PD priorities, don't try to understand them.

Their tire model is shit. The whole ABS thing is shit. Trying to drift with ABS on and drifting with it off is two completely different beasts... I'm not even talking about braking. I was going into a slide with torque alone, but having ABS off caused me to spin out far easier than with ABS on... didn't make ANY sense.

 

[Betta Lines]

Their tire model is shit. The whole ABS thing is shit. Trying to drift with ABS on and drifting with it off is two completely different beasts... I'm not even talking about braking. I was going into a slide with torque alone, but having ABS off caused me to spin out far easier than with ABS on... didn't make ANY sense.

So it appears both you and Amar think the ABS setting affects the entire grip characteristic of the cars, whether you're using the brakes or not. I haven't tested it extensively myself, but it hasn't become apparent yet. Anyone else notice this?

 

[gutterboy44]

So it appears both you and Amar think the ABS setting affects the entire grip characteristic of the cars, whether you're using the brakes or not. I haven't tested it extensively myself, but it hasn't become apparent yet. Anyone else notice this?

I haven't tested that aspect of it yet, but the ABS definitely changes shit, none of it for the better imo. ABS 1 and 0 are both broken, just chose which version of broken you want I guess.

 

[phosphor112]

Just try that S2000 drifting with the ABS on 1 and then on 0. It's a lot more difficult on 0... maybe it was just me choking up!? But I honestly doubt it, because I was CONSISTANTLY worse without the ABS.

 

[amar212]

I haven't tested that aspect of it yet, but the ABS definitely changes shit, none of it for the better imo. ABS 1 and 0 are both broken, just chose which version of broken you want I guess.

I do not agree with this.

Go few pages back, download my Cizeta replay and there is my personal showcase why I love ABS0 in this game (with few notable exceptions, Huayra comes to mind first).

 

[Neo 007]

Man, the Ferrari Daytona is such a nice car to drive. Used it to beat the first race of the Historic racing cup. Slammed that fucking Toyota 7 against the outside barriers of rascasse on the final lap though. Completely justified.

A Ferrari what?....they never made such a car.

 

[shandy706]

SoundEffectMasterParameter
Transfer_parameter_set

car_exhaust_cockpit
car_engine_r_cockpit
car_engine_f_cockpit
car_nos
car_brake
car_tire_sound
car_horn
car_crash
car_tire_landing
car_harshness
car_turbulence
car_transmission
car_wastegate
car_blowoff
car_supercharger
car_turbocharger
car_afterfire
car_exhaust
car_engine

SoundEffect
TransferParameterSet

car_mirror_sound
open_car_cockpit
race_car_body
race_car_cockpit
normal_car_body
normal_car_cockpit

SoundEffectViewDependentVolume

I love seeing cool stuff like this. Keep digging .

Quick question. Is this literally all the audio data/files used in the game for cars? I mean is it just a few sounds with some modifiers or something?

All that blu-ray space makes one wish/think there would be a lot more audio samples than that. (or is there more car audio elsewhere?)

A Ferrari what?....they never made such a car.

Uh, yes they did.

It's also called the Ferrari 365 GTB/4, better known as the Ferrari Daytona.

 

[fu3lfr3nzy]

A Ferrari what?....they never made such a car.

notsureifserious.jpg

 

[AlphaSnake]

A Ferrari what?....they never made such a car.

Before I try to discredit someone I use Google, bruh.

 

[brotkasten]

Uh, yes they did.

It's also called the Ferrari 365 GTB/4, better known as the Ferrari Daytona.

notsureifserious.jpg

Before I try to discredit someone I use Google, bruh.

Maybe it was sarcasm on his part? I mean, look at that piece of junk. If so incredibly ugly that it hardly passes as a sports car, let alone as a Ferrari. So yes, I'd also like to live in a world where Ferrari never build such a car.

 

[Neo 007]

Show me any pic were Ferrari called it a "Daytona".

Ferrari 365 GT/B4 is the Only name Ferrari put on this car.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Is there a car with a higher top speed than the Bugatti Veyron? I ask this because I set a 470km/h record (No NOS, but fully upgraded with transmission modified), and was looking for a car that could possibly beat that.

My current top speed is 483kmh using a FXX but with Nos

 

[h3ro]

Show me any pic were Ferrari called it a "Daytona".

Ferrari 365 GT/B4 is the Only name Ferrari put on this car.

...

 

[Zeth]

Is the Forumula Gran Turismo worth buying? Or are there any other F1 cars available?

Also thanks to the person who mentioned the Nismo GT-R GT3 was a joy to a drive - think it's one of my new favorites.

 

[amar212]

Show me any pic were Ferrari called it a "Daytona".

Ferrari 365 GT/B4 is the Only name Ferrari put on this car.

If you ever asked me in my early teenage years is there something called Ferrari 365GTB I would say "never heard", but I would immideately nod for Daytona.

EuroGAF here, late 70's generation.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Am I the only person that prefers the R8 & Z4 GT3 cars. I just find the GT-R to feel like a tank after driving the others.