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[Lysandros]

Oh wow thanks a lot for the explanation, man. I remember seeing folks say that the 10.2 tflop of the PS5’s RDNA 2 GPU is equivalent to like 17 tflops of the PS4’s GPU or some like that. But to get to Tim Sweeney’s number we’d need an 80 tflops GPU for PS6 which is ridiculous I am not sure if we will get that. But we dont even know what kinda GPU the PS6 will sport so how can we even calculate that from now?

It's ~10.3 TF (10.29) and broadly 'equivalent' to ~13 Polaris TF all in theoretical context. More importantly, it's just a facet among many in the matter of graphics prowess, it seems that you are stuck at this particular GPU metric.

 

[shamoomoo]

I read this piece somewhere in defense of R&CRA's not requiring an SSD on PC:

"Nixxes’ port of Rift Apart claimed to be the very first game to implement DirectStorage 1.2, and principal programmer Alex Bartholomeus specifically suggested it’s the reason you can use a traditional hard drive.To enable quick loading and instant transition between dimensions, the game needs to be able to load assets quickly. DirectStorage ensures quick loading times and GPU decompression is used at high graphics settings to stream assets in the background while playing. Traditionally, this decompression is handled by the CPU, but at a certain point there is an advantage to letting the GPU handle this, as this enables a higher bandwidth for streaming assets from storage to the graphics card. We use this to quickly load high-quality textures and environments with a high level of detail.”

is that why Steam Deck, too, is capable of running it? I mean besides the reduced resolution
what do you guys think?


definitely
I am sure their top-tier devs have moved on to Wolverine as they must have felt confident enough to relinquish control to team B or C because the first two games nailed down the majority of the mechanics as well as the world-building and visuals aspects

The Steam Deck can support SSDs and relatively speaking,is basically a 1/4 PS5.

 

[SlimySnake]

I read this piece somewhere in defense of R&CRA's not requiring an SSD on PC:

"Nixxes’ port of Rift Apart claimed to be the very first game to implement DirectStorage 1.2, and principal programmer Alex Bartholomeus specifically suggested it’s the reason you can use a traditional hard drive.To enable quick loading and instant transition between dimensions, the game needs to be able to load assets quickly. DirectStorage ensures quick loading times and GPU decompression is used at high graphics settings to stream assets in the background while playing. Traditionally, this decompression is handled by the CPU, but at a certain point there is an advantage to letting the GPU handle this, as this enables a higher bandwidth for streaming assets from storage to the graphics card. We use this to quickly load high-quality textures and environments with a high level of detail.”

is that why Steam Deck, too, is capable of running it? I mean besides the reduced resolution
what do you guys think?


definitely
I am sure their top-tier devs have moved on to Wolverine as they must have felt confident enough to relinquish control to team B or C because the first two games nailed down the majority of the mechanics as well as the world-building and visuals aspects

GPU decompression doesnt really have much to do with SSD. It is a replacement for the secret sauce Cerny put in his APU... the i/o block which according to him was doing the work of around 19 zen 2 CPU cores.

The SSD will just allow faster loading of the assets into vram, but again it is not game breaking to do it from the HDD. It will be interesting to see if those setpiece moments where they take you from planet to planet with 2-4 second portals simply take longer, but the levels where you hit a rock that instantly switches to an alternate version of that level is likely nothing to do with the ssd. they were likely storing the rest of that level in vram the whole time.

Hell, to me the alarm bells went off when they said that the planet hopping was limited to setpieces. i remember bitching about that here back when they first announced it. if its limited to setpieces they can simply load up the next planet just like they would in any other game because they know exactly what planet you are switching to next.

Regardless, my main issue after all these years is that they targeted native 4k 30 fps for the visuals and ended up in the 40-50 fps range leaving so much of the gpu just rendering pixels and higher framerates. they could've done so much more with those 10 tflops. But then again, spiderman drops to 1296p and still looks last gen so who knows, maybe their engine is just bad.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think the pc port strategy is actually proving to be deleterious. Someone pointed this out in the Spider-Man 2 thread last month but it’s seemingly like instead of pushing the tech and visual boundaries like PS3-PS4 era, they’re kind of reining it in to… well to run on shit like a GTX960, HDD and 8GB of ram for a premium PS5 exclusive.

You could argue TLOU1 is also guilty of this. It runs on the goddamn steam deck if I’m not mistaken. PS3 and PS4 exclusives didn’t have to account for this. It’s like having a series S for every “exclusive” now except even lower.

Nah. A lot of these PC ports if not all of them were ported way later by other studios. Demon Souls still hasnt been ported but BP chose to rein in the graphics fidelity to target 60 fps at 1440p regardless.

I think Edder is bang on with his assessment. Sony studios just have different goals, mandates and standards now. The priority is profits over quality. This happens to every publisher that goes multiplatform. I remember predicting this in great detail a couple of years ago as soon as i found out horizon was going to PC back in 2020. When the objective goes from first party games being designed to sell consoles to instead make the most profit, you have to change your entire philosophy from top to bottom. In the latest Naughty Dog blogpost, Neil said that they want to set the bar and push the standards, but they had their chance with TLOU and didnt do any of that. It's because the objective is no longer to show off your console, it's to make the most money.

The real problem is Sony aren't pushing their devs to release top tier looking games like in the past, they're happy for them to recycle same assets in order to maximise profit. Since Jim Ryan took over Sony has been happy releasing cross gen games and reusing old assets. The guy is all about money and squeezing out every possible dollar.

 

[sigrad]

Amsterdam mission in MW2 is probably the closest comparison of what I expect GTA VI to look like. Just give me those graphics with Metal Gear Solid 5 gameplay and I'll be in heaven

Yeah man, that mission looked ridiculously good.

 

[alloush]

Yeah man, that mission looked ridiculously good.

True. It’s not talked about enough

 

[mrMUR_96]

I read this piece somewhere in defense of R&CRA's not requiring an SSD on PC:

"Nixxes’ port of Rift Apart claimed to be the very first game to implement DirectStorage 1.2, and principal programmer Alex Bartholomeus specifically suggested it’s the reason you can use a traditional hard drive.To enable quick loading and instant transition between dimensions, the game needs to be able to load assets quickly. DirectStorage ensures quick loading times and GPU decompression is used at high graphics settings to stream assets in the background while playing. Traditionally, this decompression is handled by the CPU, but at a certain point there is an advantage to letting the GPU handle this, as this enables a higher bandwidth for streaming assets from storage to the graphics card. We use this to quickly load high-quality textures and environments with a high level of detail.”

is that why Steam Deck, too, is capable of running it? I mean besides the reduced resolution
what do you guys think?


definitely
I am sure their top-tier devs have moved on to Wolverine as they must have felt confident enough to relinquish control to team B or C because the first two games nailed down the majority of the mechanics as well as the world-building and visuals aspects

DirectStorage is for Windows, steam deck runs linux. It'll probably be quite stuttery when loading stuff on steam deck, but I guess we'll see soon.

 

[SlimySnake]

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/new-version-of-tlou2-%C2%BFconfirmed.1658766/

this will be ... interesting
Gamescom? probably not
likely circa VGA
before the second season is announced

If they are making changes like having the composer play more songs, i hope its a full on remake that adds back the OG character models and animations.

 

[Represent.]

A native PS5 TLOU2 instantly becomes my most hyped game of the year lmao

 

[SlimySnake]

DF did a FF16 vs Forspoken comparison that really showcases just how good FF16 can look at times compared to other so-called next gen games.

I hope DF does more comparisons like this because its far easier to tell the upgrade when you show these games back to back. The lighting and character model upgrade is instantly noticeable in these back to back comparisons. They have to go back and start comparing these newer games to last gen games like RDR2, Death Stranding, Horizon FW, and GOW. Hell, even Demon Souls and Ratchet.

I know their friends over at these studios wont like direct comparisons that might expose the last gen nature of some of these games, but we need more face/offs between games instead of face/offs between different versions of the same game. They have no problems insulting these japanese studios with unfavorable comparisons, it's time we shame some of these western devs as well. or at least, do the comparison for the sake of devs who actually put in the effort to improve fidelity. I would've loved to have seen some star wars vs gow vs dead space vs horizon comparisons. A lot of people, myself included, have downplayed these latest next gen only games but i think people will be surprised at the difference when they see them back to back.

Timestamped:

 

[Negotiator101]

A native PS5 TLOU2 instantly becomes my most hyped game of the year lmao

PS5 is the remake console

 

[OCASM]

If they are making changes like having the composer play more songs, i hope its a full on remake that adds back the OG character models and animations.

Not only the models but the far superior lighting and shadows used during gameplay.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

If they are making changes like having the composer play more songs, i hope its a full on remake that adds back the OG character models and animations.

Hell yes! Give me these visuals or better, Ray tracing and better textures.

 

[alloush]

“Star Wars Outlaws: One Planet Size Equivalent to 2-3 Zones in AC Odyssey, Locations All “Handcrafted””

Star Wars Outlaws: One Planet Size Equivalent to 2-3 Zones in AC Odyssey, Locations All "Handcrafted"

Massive says the Star Wars Outlaws planet size is roughly the size of 2-3 zones in AC Odyssey. No procedurally generated entire planets.

mp1st.com

 

[H . R . 2]

Hell yes! Give me these visuals or better, Ray tracing and better textures.

I personally don't think TLOU2 definitive edition will be far superior to TLOU remake, for the sake of parity between the two.
depending on what you thought of the remake, TLOU2 Remaster will be just as lackluster or just as mind-blowing as TLOU1 remake

I highly doubt if ND will show their next-gen engine/visuals before announcing their new game because by exceeding TLOU2 graphics in the form of a definitive edition,
they would set unrealistic expectations for their next project- unless they announce their next game before TLOU2 Remake.

 

[alloush]

Guys, you seen a thread made about Interactivity where the author of that thread talks about seeing a thread about graphical fidelity and then proceeds to say interactivity > graphics? Everyone is agreeing with him there and talking down graphics. Guys we have become famous that threads are being created about us. Also, we need to defend the honor of graphics, everyone is downplaying graphics, I nominate SlimySnake to be our king to lead us in battle.

 

[Lethal01]

interactivity > graphics?

That is indeed true, graphics mostly matter because sadly creators keep going for realism, they should just stick to stylized and do styles they can actually execute perfectly instead for continuing to fail at realism for another 20 years. Just wait and let computer actually capable of it come into existene.

 

[alloush]

That is indeed true, graphics mostly matter because sadly creators keep going for realism, they should just stick to stylized and do styles they can actually execute perfectly instead for continuing to fail at realism for another 20 years. Just wait and let computer actually capable of it come into existene.

But what if people want realism? I could be wrong but I feel we arent too far off of photorealism in my opinion and in Tim Sweeney’s opinion. We have to get to a point eventually where we say “ok, we want games that look as realistic as possible”. But yes interactivity is indeed very important no doubts there.

 

[alloush]

I had to check out the account to see if this was the real Phil Spencer lol:

 

[SlimySnake]

Guys, you seen a thread made about Interactivity where the author of that thread talks about seeing a thread about graphical fidelity and then proceeds to say interactivity > graphics? Everyone is agreeing with him there and talking down graphics. Guys we have become famous that threads are being created about us. Also, we need to defend the honor of graphics, everyone is downplaying graphics, I nominate SlimySnake to be our king to lead us in battle

nah, id rather have interactivity too. i just want something next gen. i dont care if its physics or visuals or destruction.

I have played a lot of pretty games this gen that left a lot to be desired. whats the point of pretty visuals if you cant do anything with them?

 

[alloush]

nah, id rather have interactivity too. i just want something next gen. i dont care if its physics or visuals or destruction.

I have played a lot of pretty games this gen that left a lot to be desired. whats the point of pretty visuals if you cant do anything with them?

I mean sure, they both go hand in hand for me or maybe slightly in favor of interactivity but people in that thread weren’t just highlighting interactivity’s importance but also hella downplaying graphics which I found a tad stupid honestly. You can praise one and not downplay the other.

 

[SlimySnake]

I mean sure, they both go hand in hand for me or maybe slightly in favor of interactivity but people in that thread weren’t just highlighting interactivity’s importance but also hella downplaying graphics which I found a tad stupid honestly. You can praise one and not downplay the other.

yeah but thats the internet for you. its one or the other, binary we-must-pick-a-side nonsense.

 

[CGNoire]

I mean sure, they both go hand in hand for me or maybe slightly in favor of interactivity but people in that thread weren’t just highlighting interactivity’s importance but also hella downplaying graphics which I found a tad stupid honestly. You can praise one and not downplay the other.

What there trying to do is play the Old Game of making it out to be a Zero Sum Game which is a ridiculous notion.

 

[GymWolf]

If they are making changes like having the composer play more songs, i hope its a full on remake that adds back the OG character models and animations.

I would kill 10 goats to have the same demo ia and not the mongoloids we have in the final game.

 

[Negotiator101]

I would kill 10 goats to have the same demo ia and not the mongoloids we have in the final game.

A lot of that is scripted but the final game still has great AI.

 

[GymWolf]

A lot of that is scripted but the final game still has great AI.

It has better ia than some other tps, it's hardly "great", and i have 2 full runs on grounded and like 50+ hours in the game and the game was my goty (inb4 any insinuation).

They are still highly exploitable mongoloids with suicidal desires, the name calling and giving away their searching strategy are just smoke and mirrors scripts that nothing have to do with actual capable ia.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

GymWolf keeps saying IA and not AI because he’s italian so to him it’s:

intelligenza artificiale

 

[alloush]

GymWolf keeps saying IA and not AI because he’s italian so to him it’s:

intelligence artificielle

GymWolf is Italian? Nice. I love Italians, man, where’s the Pineapple Pizza at?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

GymWolf is Italian? Nice. I love Italians, man, where’s the Pineapple Pizza at?

A Visual History of Pizza in Games - IGN

Pizza in video games go together like peanut butter and chocolate. Here are 21 of the most memorable examples.

www.ign.com

Pizza rendering tech!

 

[alloush]

A Visual History of Pizza in Games - IGN

Pizza in video games go together like peanut butter and chocolate. Here are 21 of the most memorable examples.

www.ign.com

Pizza rendering tech!

For GymWolf Pizza rendering tech is probably more important than animations, AI, physics, and graphics combined.

 

[GymWolf]

GymWolf is Italian? Nice. I love Italians, man, where’s the Pineapple Pizza at?

And in the ignore list you go

 

[Masterofchapter]

Avatar frontiers of Pandora has some nice destructions

nah, id rather have interactivity too. i just want something next gen. i dont care if its physics or visuals or destruction.

I have played a lot of pretty games this gen that left a lot to be desired. whats the point of pretty visuals if you cant do anything with them?

 

[GymWolf]

Avatar frontiers of Pandora has some nice destructions

Where?

 

[alloush]

And in the ignore list you go

Scusa

 

[Masterofchapter]

Where?

Watch reveal trailer and overview trailer

 

[Mephisto40]

Resident Evil 2 Remake Burger

 

[alloush]

 

[Piggoro]

Watch reveal trailer and overview trailer

I did and haven't notice any. What's the timestamp?

 

[GymWolf]

Resident Evil 2 Remake Burger

They look almost as disgusting as mcdonalds burgers.

 

[ChiefDada]

I can't begin to imagine a hypothetical Uncharted 5; Uncharted 4 is NDs best looking game to date imo (I prefer art direction over TLOU)

 

[GymWolf]

Every shooter need this, every bullet is simulated and make every kill visually different, even tlou2 doesn't get the same variety even with the best animations and ragdoll in the business.



Look at the kill at 2:44 that is peak hit reactions.
I think tlou2 has better ragdoll and the bodies have more realistic weight tho.

I expect god tier euphoria implementation in gt6.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Every shooter need this, every bullet is simulated and make every kill visually different, even tlou2 doesn't get the same variety even with the best animations and ragdoll in the business.



Look at the kill at 2:44 that is peak hit reactions.
I think tlou2 has better ragdoll and the bodies have more realistic weight tho.

I expect god tier euphoria implementation in gt6.

This is impressive because everything is simulated. Fights are hectic and unpredictable.

I can't begin to imagine a hypothetical Uncharted 5; Uncharted 4 is NDs best looking game to date imo (I prefer art direction over TLOU)

This is not because everything is heavily scripted. You are on rails. Game doesn't care about your inputs. Just look at the guy jumping from the motorbike at 2:03.

 

[GymWolf]

This is impressive because everything is simulated. Fights are hectic and unpredictable.



This is not because everything is heavily scripted. You are on rails. Game doesn't care about your inputs. Just look at the guy jumping from the motorbike at 2:03.

What do you mean with everything is simulated?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

What do you mean with everything is simulated?

I should be more specific: ragdolls! Body physics. But your point about bullets... that's also super impressive. Every fight is hectic and unique. Play the same encounter 100 times and it will always be different.

It's glorious:

 

[GymWolf]

I should be more specific: ragdolls! Body physics. But your point about bullets... that's also super impressive. Every fight is hectic and unique. Play the same encounter 100 times and it will always be different.

It's glorious:

Thats's the reason why i enjoyed every gunfight in rdr2 even if controls, aim and cover system are dogshit.

 

[charles8771]

I should be more specific: ragdolls! Body physics. But your point about bullets... that's also super impressive. Every fight is hectic and unique. Play the same encounter 100 times and it will always be different.

It's glorious:

Thing is that i don't think we gonna more linear games than open world shit at all.
However Max Payne 3 took 8 years to develop and $100 million budget
With low budget and shorter time development, it would had the same complexity as a Call of Duty game


This is what accomplished on PS2 in 2001, as linear games were the most detailed games in 6th gen.

 

[H . R . 2]

DF Weekly: How will Ratchet and Clank PC handle the PS5's SSD requirement?

A while back, I wrote a DF Direct Weekly blog explaining why Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart's PC port is crucial for the…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Insane Metal]

If they are making changes like having the composer play more songs, i hope its a full on remake that adds back the OG character models and animations.

Come on I just beat the game... don't make me do it again.... ugh

 

[amigastar]

I'm really curious to see Max Payne 2 Remake by Remedy coming out in the future. I'm sure it will blow me away graphically.

 

[ChiefDada]

Hell yes! Give me these visuals or better, Ray tracing and better textures.

Personally, I'd be underwhelmed with a native PS5 version achieving only E3 demo visuals, and likely pass, but if they throw in RT AO/Shadows/Reflections i'll for sure consider purchasing. We're coming up on 3 full years with current gen, the bar needs to be raised substantially if they want to get any more $ out of me.