proandrad
Member
Objects looking smoother are literally visuals.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
it's nonsense. ignore it. Besides, the scope and scale of starfield is whats next gen about it. Spiderman 2 is literally spiderman all over again. The leap bethesda has taken since 2018's Fallout 76 is immense, the leap insomniac has taken since 2018's spiderman is minimal at best. im not gonna give MS credit for Starfield, but zenimax? the greedy third party publisher that forced them to make FO76 then allowed them to do a massive overhaul? how can a third party game get that big of a boost in graphics? Same goes for Ubisoft with Massive's Avatar and Star Wars Outlaws. Division 2 shipped in early 2019. but in 4 years, they managed to create not one but two next gen games that actually and feel next gen in both graphics and scale/scope.
As with FF16, i wouldve been ok if they had used the gpu to push other gameplay features. but they have not even talked about any new enhancements to NPCs, nothing at all about destruction or physics. no new gameplay systems. its crazy how iterative this game feels. we were trashing gow ragnorak for feeling like DLC, but Miles was literally DLC. there is no excuse for them basically turning this into an episodic franchise.
But fidelity won't change, will look worse in performance mode as I already mentioned. This is why your point about screenshots is so wrong, they actually show us the true fidelity when game is stationary. There are few games that can look impressive while in motion, but it's when you stop everything and freeze a frame is when you can get a look at fidelity at hand. Case in point, just have a look at DF video of a game like Rift Apart, they literally have to pause frames to show you how impressive individual assets are, something you wouldn't even notice otherwise.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
ok who's alt is this?many of aavatar gameplay scenes are below this
the best scenes of Spiderman 2 would easily pass as nextgen for you guys if it was being developed by another Studio telling you that they are using ue5.
It Just need the ue5 logo
Had me thinking too, we suddenly have a bunch of people who came into this thread in defense of SM2, lol.
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
So is Avatar then
ChiefDada
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
In regards to ratchet, i think the asset quality in the non-open world levels is definitely its highlight. I marveled the blizar prime level. just an insane cg quality look and feel to it. i would love to see the game's vram usage on PC because it looks way better than Spiderman Miles and what we are getting here in Spiderman 2. It feels more like a next gen game to me than Spiderman 2 in terms of asset quality.
Now obviously this quality drops in open world levels, so maybe their engine is somehow unable to have these extra high quality textures and objects in an open world. Maybe nanite would help? though i dont know much about game development to know if that will help, but they definitely need to figure out their open world situation.
the one shot of spiderman inside a building facing a bunch of enemies looks really good and reminded me of that shot of ratchet above. who knows, maybe they just didnt have time to upgrade their open world engine? then again, miles looked great indoors anyway so maybe their engine just favors indoor levels.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Uh Slimy did you mean to post this on purpose? Am I being punked or what? The lighting looks trash in the sky islands scene. Difference between me and you, I understand this game is still a work in progress and I've seen enough from avatar to know that their lighting technique will allow for bonafide current gen visuals.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
nope. but trust me, the feeling is mutual.
You're 100% right, the fidelity takes a serious dive from open world sections to more closed environments. This is why UE5 is so ahead of the game, Epic have an engine that can do ridiculous fidelity in open world while having basically no pop-in, something we haven't seen anyone else do yet. I'm sure Ubisoft will do crazy visuals in open world, but even Avatar and Outlaws had some pop-in. Guerilla Games is definitely up there too with Decima, but they still haven't solved their texture streaming to get rid of pop-in.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Avatar looks alright but I simply have more faith in Spider-Man 2 being upgraded before launch than I do Avatar not being downgraded again before launch.
So we will see.
So we will see.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Why I love this thread, in a nutshell lol!
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
ok who's alt is this?
I can complete invert the situation here by picking best SM2 scenes agains avatars worst scene.
They show Just glimpse of avatar gameplay and they look very underwhelming.
ok who's alt is this?
Avatar easily show its weakness whener it changes to gameplay.
The fire/explosion in Avatar can be Just as bad.
Many parts of Avatar can not be consider tô be nextgen, and surprise, they are all from gameplay Just by coincidence
Look at all these shots... come on...
Look... its not my job to defend SM2 blindly since I even admit there are some elements that look terrible, like explosions and water.
But you cant Just make it sound like SM2 have terrible graphics all around like theres nothing good about it when avatar that was being so praised here has exacltly the same weakness shown on SM2 that are contantly being used as a proof of how bad it looks.
If SM2 looks that bad, so does Avatar. You can not ignore those pics.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This post made me go back and play some of the uncharted 4 levels in native 4k 40 fps mode and my goodness, what a gorgeous looking game. I legit believed that TLOU2 takes a big shit on it, but there is still something very impressive about uncharted 4's GI solution along with just how vibrant and beautiful it looks compared to seattle which is drenched in rain 90% of the time. And when the game does set levels during broad daylight, it looks pretty fucking trash like in santa barbara and that one abby level when she leaves the aquariam to go get Abby and Lev back.
It definitely does things better than TLOU2 though id still give TLOU2 an edge based on the photorealistic artstyle its going for. the suburb levels with ellie still look great and seattle day 3 on the boat still tops that uncharted 4 rain sequence in chapter 12. the prologue boat chase still looks superb but its mostly in the open water while seattle day 3 has abby driving through pretty much an entire submerged city in the rain.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
those pics are from a section that is supposed to look bad because it is suffering from pollution from factory. that same area is supposed to look like this after you clear out the factory.
here are almost a dozen gameplay gifs i made from the 6 minute gameplay trailer. Scroll to the side to see the next gameplay gif. feel free to tell me which ones look as bad as those screenshots you posted.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Lmao. Can we stop this nonsense please?
First off, do any of these games even look better than Burning Shores?
Secondly, two are by Ubisoft, who are notorious for downgrades and showing fake games.
I will bet all my money that walking around in the game will NOT EVER look as good as this. This may be Anthem level fakery.
That tree won't be moving. The wind effects won't be there. Shit won't be flying everywhere.
Why didn't we see any weather effects in the actual gameplay portion section of the demo? Because it won't be there. They would have showed it off. Its a flex.
The other is a fucking Bethesda game. They have delivered ugly graphics for decades. The thing that is next gen about Starfield is the scope and scale. Not the looks.
That leaves us with Playground. Who are currently in development hell with Fable.... Prove it.
If these games are out "fantastic 4" then we are absolutely fucked.
Here's what the actual fantastic 4 will be moving forward.
Grand Theft Auto 6.
Naughty Dog's new Single Player game.
CyberPunk: Phantom Liberty on PC.
Crysis 4.
Take it to the bank.
Not a single Ubisoft game will be remembered for its visuals by the end of the year it releases.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am sorry, but why are we bringing up downgrades after insomniac was just caught with their pants down with the biggest downgrade of this gen? every game gets downgraded nowadays. we will judge based on the final product. avatar was revealed in 2021 and it already had its downgrade, and still looks amazing. spiderman 2 looks nothing like its original reveal.
two years ago whenever i would post avatar gifs, i would be told it would get downgraded to oblivion and i would always have the same answer, that even if it gets downgraded, it will still retain its next gen features. And it has. they didnt have to reveal the game running on a ps5 if they were planning another massive downgrade. they couldve just shown it running on pc at ultra settings on a 4090 but they showed it off with FSR2.0 warts and all.
And star wars outlaws will have the wind effect. watch the new behind the scenes video where they showcase this world as a world with continuous winds so they designed a wind system that effects every single object in the game from the foliage to NPCs and other objects. this is what happens when you design a game around next gen specs.
regardless, the fact of the matter is that GTA6, ND's next game, and Crysis 4 are all MIA. They dont get to be in the fantastic four when they dont show up to the FOURTH E3 of the generation. They have given up their status and can get to the back of the line where they belong. cyberpunk looks like cyberpunk 1.1. whatever. i bet cyberpunk 2 will look next gen.
If Neil wants to make tv shows then fine, go ahead. I dont have space for him on my mount rushmore. if Rockstar wants to take 13 years to make GTA6 just so they can have NPCs eat dinner and the steak slowly gets eaten then great, go ahead. I couldnt care less. i will celebrate them once every 8 years and then completely forget about them for the rest of the gen.
bender
What time is it?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
this is next gen to you?
and we arent doubting them. the doubting part is over. they have already shown their hand. twice now. and its clear to everyone that this aint no next gen showpiece.
if you want to have some kinda of miraculous faith in them to add Nanite and other next gen visual features 2 months before launch then be my guest, just dont gaslight us into thinking we are the crazy ones for thinking actual next gen games look next gen.
You made a fool out of yourself with your TLOU Part 1 worshipping and now you're doing that again after having a meltdown over last gen spiderman 2 visuals just a couple of months ago. we tolerated you even though we couldve been cunts but this ridiculous gaslighting others for not hoping onboard your delusion train is getting old.
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
those pics are from a section that is supposed to look bad because it is suffering from pollution from factory. that same area is supposed to look like this after you clear out the factory.
here are almost a dozen gameplay gifs i made from the 6 minute gameplay trailer. Scroll to the side to see the next gameplay gif. feel free to tell me which ones look as bad as those screenshots you posted.
My problem with Avatar is that even the sections that look great, there's Just something wrong with the image quality
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
thats because its running in FSR2.0 4k so only 1440p internal resolution. they arent trying to hide the visuals by running it at native 4k ultra settings on a PC.
The IQ is the price for showing the game warts and all running realtime on consoles.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Yeah even though Avatar can look rough in some spots the scale is crazy and some scenes look stunning I also think people are forgetting it was running real-time on PS5....as far as the Spider-Man 2 discussion I'm biased 
it's an uphill battle in here so I'll quietly love what I'm seeing
it's an uphill battle in here so I'll quietly love what I'm seeingarkhamguy123
Member
um first of all yes. Hell yes. Like a Gen ahead. Take out the next Gen clouds from burning shores and you’re left with the same shiny cross Gen ps4 game as the base game.
Second of all it’s nonsense because you have a conspiracy theory that all 4 are somehow gonna look like N64 games when they launch so we can’t judge the real time in game footage we have of each of those 4? Please. Cmon.
And then you go on to postulate games we haven’t even seen yet. Games that aren’t even announced. I just don’t understand your premise man
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arkhamguy123
Member
Y'all really doubting the developers who started next gen when the others wouldn't. The audacity.
Meanwhile I'm looking at these fugly Avatar picks like:
We’re getting fast and loose with what we call next Gen.
Miles morales is factually a PS4 game. It looks nice. Looks clean. But it’s crossgen. Nobody was postulating watch dogs or MGSV as the peak the PS4 could deliver
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
Spiderman 2 wont have popins in the final build
Masterofchapter
Banned
People forgot ubisoft has 20000 employees avatar by division 1 team star wars outlaws by division 2 team not the same team
Masterofchapter
Banned
Avatar looks way better than burning shores so does outlaws no offence ubisoft don't downgrade anymore
2 avatar frontiers of Pandora is a co op game looks not a single player like horizon still looks very impressive not only that avatar will have smart npcs unlike dead ai in horizon
Read this article
https://www.ign.com/articles/avatar-ubisoft-massive-open-world-details
2 avatar frontiers of Pandora is a co op game looks not a single player like horizon still looks very impressive not only that avatar will have smart npcs unlike dead ai in horizon
Read this article
https://www.ign.com/articles/avatar-ubisoft-massive-open-world-details
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The guy who made that amazing motorcycle chase using the UE5 matrix demo on PC released a video showing how he did it.
Here is the actual video of the realtime cutscene.
Can we just have Epic loan insomniac the city sample for spiderman 2?
Here is the actual video of the realtime cutscene.
Can we just have Epic loan insomniac the city sample for spiderman 2?
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Masterofchapter
Banned
Assassin's creed unity best looking game of 2014, Assassin's creed origins best looking game of 2017 ghost recon breakpoint best looking game in pc saying ubisoft games don't look good is pathetic
GymWolf
Gold Member
That pick looks way less impressive than you think.those pics are from a section that is supposed to look bad because it is suffering from pollution from factory. that same area is supposed to look like this after you clear out the factory.
here are almost a dozen gameplay gifs i made from the 6 minute gameplay trailer. Scroll to the side to see the next gameplay gif. feel free to tell me which ones look as bad as those screenshots you posted.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Dude sony is infamous for downgrades aswell, short memory uh?
Arguably motorstorm and kz2 are way worse downgrades than anything ever made by ubisoft.
You don't wanna start a downgrade list war between ubisoft and sony, believe me.
Your beloved tlou2 reveal trailer was a fucking joke.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
They don't look a gen ahead of burning shores, cmon dude.
We are splitting hairs with all those titles.
mxbison
Member
I guess animations don't matter?
Arioco
Member
Spiderman 2 is not going to run at 1080p and 20-30 fps. That comes at a cost, as you would expect.
Idk for me the color grading in this keeps it far cartoonier than it should be considering the tech and assets its bringing to bare.
This guy does a way better job of not just using the proper grading for that cinematic photoreal look but also his professionaly tested approach to staging the crash choreography really pays off here.
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M1987
Member
Can we wait until Avatar is actually out and people have played it before people start talking about how it looks way better than HFW,it's stupid.
I was one of the people who got a bit too hyped about it after watching the trailer on my phone,but as soon as I watched it on my tv it looked less impressive in certain parts,but still really good looking obviously
I was one of the people who got a bit too hyped about it after watching the trailer on my phone,but as soon as I watched it on my tv it looked less impressive in certain parts,but still really good looking obviously
winjer
Member
That is just normal maps. Something that even Doom 3 used many years ago, although not for skin wrinkles.
Credit goes to the artists that created all that detail. Not to a game engine that has a feature that all game engines have for many years.
This whole idea that GoodGraphicsXOpenWorld is some accomplishment in 2023 is so fucking tireing considering all the best looking games of the last decade have been either open world or at least a Large Sandbox design.
What exactly is the accomplishment that an open world suggests from a realtime technical perspective outside of streaming tech (not exactly new) especially if the AI and characters are just randomly spawned when within the vicinity of the camera? Its not like gta is calculating the daily routines of ever person in the city or even tracking there location for that matter.
The whole notion that open world equals worse graphics is such an outdated idea now.
No your streaming tech isnt that impressive especially when the real hero tends to be new brute force hardware.
Also...That DS2 character looks exactly the same as he did in DS1.
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I think it's due to the fact Open World games have much more going on in them that it becomes harder to achieve good-looking graphics with them. Linear games are just that, linear games, they are limited in terms of world design, NPC simulation, interactivity etc. which gives them plenty of head room to be creative graphically. But yeah RDR2 for me was the best looking game last gen and it has the most massive open world I have ever seen in a videogame.
Also I posted that cuz Decima Engine is known to be a great engine and it said they are working on Decima 2, they are upgrading what is already an awesome engine so really looking forward to that. I think GG are not resting on their laurels honestly and good for them. Other studios have way more inferior engines and they aren't even thinking of upgrading them.
Matrix demo was running at upscaled 4K. If you're talking about internal resolution then it's also low on SM2. As for Matrix demo optimisation, then you're comparing a dozen devs working on it as opposed to hundreds on SM2.
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You contradicted yourself with RDR2 example. Sure you lose fidelity when you go from linear to open world, but if the engine is optimised for open world then you're gonna get games like RDR2 and Horizon, that looks nearly as good as their linear counterparts.
Another example is Call of Duty. By logic graphics supposed to suffer massively by going from 30fps to 60fps, but because COD engine is optimised to run at 60fps they're able to have top notch visuals without sacrificing much in the way of fidelity or resolution.
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Arioco
Member
Spiderman 2 will probably have a native 4K at 30 fps and a (dynamic) native 1800p-1440p at 60 fps performance mode. Not upscaled 1080p.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Norman reedus’ character model is tingling my cross gen spidey sense. Lea Seydox looks next gen, as does the baby, but hes gotten no upgrades whatsoever. The hair looks really bad too.
Nah, you are just too hard to please. I bet you would give it 5 Mary Janes Out of 10.
GymWolf
Gold Member
You must be kidding or we lost you forever, that pic is unimpressive as it comes.
I have no fucking idea what is supposed to be impressive in that pic.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The same post you quoted has me sweating over the cross gen Norman Reedus model. How can I be lost forever? Maybe temporarily, but forever? lol
How did I contradict myself? I said USUALLY linear games look better because they arent as “open” as open world games are thus having more headroom to fiddle with graphics. Then I said BUT RDR2 looks gorgeous so that notion might not hold so much weight.
Yeah Norman’s model looks exactly the same whereas the chick has a really good model which is funny since Norman is kinda THE main guy.
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