DuduIsDisappointed
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
This post is on point!
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Neitger of the two recent trailers looks like that and if a game is looking worse a year later than its a solid assumption.
Tho I will say the most recent story trailer does look better than the gameplay reveal. The problem is, with Insomniac and Sony studios many recent downgrades, how do we even know the Comic Comln trailer is legit? I guarantee the gameplay of the final game will NOT have that fidelity. At best we can hope the cutscene quality will be as good and not downgraded.
Sony's not to be trusted. They're still enjoying this reputation that they dont deserve of a company that only releases the best quality. When they downgrade stuff people brush it off as a result of this reputation. Theyre smart enough not to downgrade stuff too much but they shouldnt be doing it at all.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Another reason we can say its a bullshot: just look at it! The lighting looks fully ray traced. The bounce lighting, the reflections are perfect, etc. Looks better than anything else weve seen this gen by a mile. It looks ray traced to wazoo.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
You're asking for proof to verify conspiracy theory posts? In this thread?
Low Moral Fibre
Member
I’ve been playing Spider-Man for the first time since the PS5 release and it actually looks pretty shit outside of the linear missions. The city looks so basic looking now with almost zero detail in the distance and the pedestrians look worse than GTA5 peds. The lighting is super basic and reminiscent of much older open world games. The RT reflections in the open world are so low quality that they only vaguely look like the scene they are supposed to represent.
People are that used to zoomed in photo mode shots where the detailed main character textures shine or shots from cinematics with higher detail and hand placed lighting that I think they forget how dated the game looks. SM2 looks pretty good in comparison imo and is definitely a step up. I think the side by sides once they game comes out will show there’s a good improvement.
The Venom texture still looks like a diseased ballsack though.
I have been replaying Day Gone too and again was so used to zoomed in shots of the main character that I forgot how dated the game looks elsewhere with some of the worst LOD and pop-in I’ve seen.
Same thing with Remnant 2. I booted it up and laughed that it looked identical to the first…then I tried the first one again and saw that the sequel looks a million times better.
This thread is definitely fun and cherry picking PS3 games to dunk on PS5 games does make me chuckle but once you come out of cinematics and photomode you’ll see how ancient some of these games look.
People are that used to zoomed in photo mode shots where the detailed main character textures shine or shots from cinematics with higher detail and hand placed lighting that I think they forget how dated the game looks. SM2 looks pretty good in comparison imo and is definitely a step up. I think the side by sides once they game comes out will show there’s a good improvement.
The Venom texture still looks like a diseased ballsack though.
I have been replaying Day Gone too and again was so used to zoomed in shots of the main character that I forgot how dated the game looks elsewhere with some of the worst LOD and pop-in I’ve seen.
Same thing with Remnant 2. I booted it up and laughed that it looked identical to the first…then I tried the first one again and saw that the sequel looks a million times better.
This thread is definitely fun and cherry picking PS3 games to dunk on PS5 games does make me chuckle but once you come out of cinematics and photomode you’ll see how ancient some of these games look.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
All your base are belong to us.
Thing I don’t understand is why do they downgrade cutscenes? I mean how do they affect the gameplay or the game as a whole? I understand downgrading the real time graphics or the gameplay graphics but cutscenes are not gameplay no idea why they get downgraded. Only reason I can think of is to minimize the fidelity between real time and cutscenes otherwise the gap will be too big and noticeable resulting in an utter mess.
PeteBull
Member
Check the date when that teaser(reveal) trailer was released- 9th sept 2021, aka over 2 years before game's launch, not possible to have such high quality gameplay, optimsed to hold stable 30 too, over 2 years before game release, aka only logical conclusion is- target render(and that targed will be missed by a lot, which we know when comparing recent actual gameplay trailer and story trailer too, even cinematics from those 2 recent trailers are much lower quality vs reveal trailer).
BTW, target render is not real gameplay, its not running real time, aka bullshot trailer ;D
Here quick comparison killzone 2 target render(first trailer, bullshot ofc) vs actual game, that looked very impressive but could by no means match target render for obvious reason- one was real time, one wasnt
Another example from very reputable dev, witcher3 target render aka bullshot trailer (and yup devs lieing straight at the beginning with the "ingame footage" words) vs actual launch trailer that by no means looked bad ofc
With time techsavy ppl(aka nerds who watch DF, understand not only words but actual meaning behind them, and can wake up in the middle of the night and explain all those complicated tech-words;p) learn to recognise whats possible and whats not when it comes to real gameplay(again, not cinematics/in engine/ingame footage)rather quickly.
Think of it like this- if u going to the gym few solid years u will know for sure where the line is between what can be build naturally vs using performance enhancing drugs, no matter how good genetics some1 has some limits cant be broken, if u are newbie lifter/not gymgoer tho, u can be easily decieved, back when i was young kid and saw arnie in conan the barbarian i also didnt think thats all made on juice, and thats normal, i was hyped looking at him, same we are all hyped looking at those super high quality pics/trailers, which arent real gameplay - the main thing is- to know whats possible and whats prerendered
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Because it was a fake vertical slice in a very small little area, letting them push visual fidelity they otherwise can’t in the full game. We saw the same thing happen with uncharted 4 and horizon forbidden West. Both supposedly captured on ps5. Both had visuals leaps ahead of what they finally shipped with. Both had fidelity not possible in real-time visuals.
If it was real-time, the latest cutscenes would’ve looked like that. Plain and simple.
You should read Jason schrier’s anthem development post mortem. The devs had nothing to show after nearly 5 years in preproduction which made their ea exec very unhappy. So they got together and created that fake anthem demo in a months. At that point they had nothing. No gameplay systems. No graphics targets. So they just faked/prerendered the whole thing. The exec bought it and thought it was real. It saved the studio from being shutdown but then they had to scramble and create the entire game in 18 months from a demo that was completely scripted and fake.
Something similar probably happened here. Sony was like what do you got after 3 years of preproduction and they created this fake trailer to show something and Sony ended up showing it to everyone.
That’s what I am saying, cutscenes are just that, cutscenes, no need to downgrade them except if you don’t want to create this huge parity between cutscenes and gameplay. Other than that, I cannot see why would would any dev downgrade cutscenes yet we see it more often than not, where devs actually downgrade cutscenes like why?
Also that Jason Schrier story, is it real? That’s crazy, man lol. Gotta read up on it!
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
HFW, Ratchet, TLOU 2 (IMO) look better…
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Game development is non-linear and far from being "plain and simple".
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
So I know AMD gets shit on a lot since FSR isn't as good as DLSS but I just had to share something I experienced last night.
I was playing Gotham Knights, which is well known for running like shit. It was. I was down on the street in an area that was hitching and stuttering even on Medium settings. Trying to work out the best balance, I was experimenting and I turned on AMD surface format optimization and set tessellation to be AMD optimized. Suddenly it worked completely perfectly. I turned everything up to ultra and turned on raytracing, still buttery smooth. Went up to a rooftop to look over a large amount of the city with the fancy lighting/shadow/volumetric fog, still smooth. Flew around and dived from high up to low to push rapid LoD transition, still smooth.
So AMD generic drivers to process normal 3D anything were worlds better than whatever the hell that dev team programmed. Not sure if nvidia drivers can take over and do better as well, but it may be worth trying if you're on an nvidia card.
I was playing Gotham Knights, which is well known for running like shit. It was. I was down on the street in an area that was hitching and stuttering even on Medium settings. Trying to work out the best balance, I was experimenting and I turned on AMD surface format optimization and set tessellation to be AMD optimized. Suddenly it worked completely perfectly. I turned everything up to ultra and turned on raytracing, still buttery smooth. Went up to a rooftop to look over a large amount of the city with the fancy lighting/shadow/volumetric fog, still smooth. Flew around and dived from high up to low to push rapid LoD transition, still smooth.
So AMD generic drivers to process normal 3D anything were worlds better than whatever the hell that dev team programmed. Not sure if nvidia drivers can take over and do better as well, but it may be worth trying if you're on an nvidia card.
VeganElduderino
Member
not only that , if that game came out today people would shit on it because its 30 fps !
That's subjective for the first two it's arguable and for tlou2 hell no, the animations sure but in overall fidelity its a different ball game.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It looks fantstic in 4k60 hdr on ps5. The game got good settings for ps4 pro, so you can enable 4k and 60
I replayed it (couldnt finish...) recently and the LOD is so bad. Every building few meters away is a mush.
But on the ground? rain? night? Still amazing
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Lethal01
Member
It's pretty much an anime inspired character in a real world.
So mixing RT reflections with the realworld iis as good as you would expect.
also probably pc footage considering the nvidia splash screen at the end.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Has anyone here bought Remnant 2 on PS5? If so how bad is the iq on "balanced mode"? I want to support a good game that's only $50 and that seems to be a big step up visually from the first game, but I care about image quality and can't imagine it being decent at these resolutions...
I have series x, but I honestly image quality is really good considering its supposed to be like 800p as per DF. Lighting is pretty basic, but no complaints on IQ itself.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
... I think you're letting this whole graphics thing get to you, buddy.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I think you might be too buddy. This is a discussion about graphics no?
I think we are going to have just have to accept UE5 stuff is going to be heavy using the new features (nanite/lumen/vsm). I guess aveum or whatever it's called will give us a better idea of what a aaa studio will do but i'm betting it's base resolutions are going to be low aswell. It's looking like high end pc will be 1440p, mid level 1080p and low end sub 1080p using reconstruction of course. Consoles will probably straddle 1080p with drs, light areas over, heavy areas dropping under.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
DS said that even thoughts its 720p internally, it looks like 1440p on a 4k tv.
1440p on 4k tvs looks fine. Way better than 1080p.
Your mileage may vary, but Matrix didnt look like a 1080p game to me. now i know it goes from 1620p to 1404p down to 1080p, but i never felt like it was a shimmering blurry mess like arkham knight and driveclub. Or the more recent HFW's performance mode before it was eventually patched. I think whatever solution UE5 uses to upscale these games is very effective and removes the shimmering and aliasing that ruins the IQ of games running at lower resolutions. TSR is a feature not talked about when people talk about UE5.
But yes, if you want 60 fps at higher resolutions then Pro consoles or PCs would have to do because of the now confirmed crappy zen 1 quality CPUs in consoles, and UE5 generally being CPU heavy. I will stick with 30 fps as long as im getting next gen visuals and as long as it feels smooth like FF16.
arkhamguy123
Member
Completely agree actually. Nothing has beat demon souls the way games were beating Shadow Fall in the PS4 days.
Demon Souls was so promising then 3 years since and just… nothing trying to surpass it really
proandrad
Member
Deservedly so, it's already running at 60fps today.
VeganElduderino
Member
It is ? On what ?
Quezacolt
Member
Ps5 it runs at 60fps
proandrad
Member
Do you think the game would just magically look twice as good if it was developed as the new title for PS5. Let's be real, it might look slightly better(ray-traced reflections) and the devs would just use the extra power to not optimize the game.
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Check the date when that teaser(reveal) trailer was released- 9th sept 2021, aka over 2 years before game's launch, not possible to have such high quality gameplay, optimsed to hold stable 30 too, over 2 years before game release, aka only logical conclusion is- target render(and that targed will be missed by a lot, which we know when comparing recent actual gameplay trailer and story trailer too, even cinematics from those 2 recent trailers are much lower quality vs reveal trailer).
BTW, target render is not real gameplay, its not running real time, aka bullshot trailer ;D
Here quick comparison killzone 2 target render(first trailer, bullshot ofc) vs actual game, that looked very impressive but could by no means match target render for obvious reason- one was real time, one wasnt
Another example from very reputable dev, witcher3 target render aka bullshot trailer (and yup devs lieing straight at the beginning with the "ingame footage" words) vs actual launch trailer that by no means looked bad ofc
With time techsavy ppl(aka nerds who watch DF, understand not only words but actual meaning behind them, and can wake up in the middle of the night and explain all those complicated tech-words;p) learn to recognise whats possible and whats not when it comes to real gameplay(again, not cinematics/in engine/ingame footage)rather quickly.
Think of it like this- if u going to the gym few solid years u will know for sure where the line is between what can be build naturally vs using performance enhancing drugs, no matter how good genetics some1 has some limits cant be broken, if u are newbie lifter/not gymgoer tho, u can be easily decieved, back when i was young kid and saw arnie in conan the barbarian i also didnt think thats all made on juice, and thats normal, i was hyped looking at him, same we are all hyped looking at those super high quality pics/trailers, which arent real gameplay - the main thing is- to know whats possible and whats prerendered
on the witcher one ,the devs didnt really lie on that one, at one point that was in engine footage but they found out they couldnt run it on consoles so they went with another shader lighting method that worked better on consoles. they had 3 lighting engines and the one in this trailer was to demanding. that is why witcher 3 was delayed by a year
Grildon Tundy
Gold Member
I think it comes down to budget; so they'll make one cutscene to show the public and go all out on it. But they can't keep up that kind of production value through all cutscenes throughout the entire game when it comes time to develop them. So what do they do? Maybe they go back to that one cutscene that makes the rest of them look bad in comparison and downgrade it to "fit in" with the rest.
PeteBull
Member
Bro, that witcher3 bullshot trailer has quality similar to next gen version maxed on pc(some things better, some worse since it was prerendered after all ;p), not only ps4/xbox one couldnt run it, no pc gpu, not even flagship one with msrp of 999$ - trailer premiered december 2013, u know what was top gpu back then? GTX Titan( first og titan with 6gigs of vram) that launched in feb 2013.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-titan.c1996 Thats this gpu specs, compare how it performs, similar to rx 480 and weaker from both gtx 1650super and rx 6500xt.
Trailer was prerendered aka not running in real time, aka 100% bullshot.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The lighting and asset quality in that trailer is completely different from what we saw in the story trailer. It's not just production values, they were using a completely different engine. or possibly something pre-rendered. It's not like they can just work harder to make games look next gen lol.
Even the enemy models have this thick CG quality to them.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Now that's the quality of lighting I like to see!
Edit: Wait this is on PS5!? I thought PC. And it's coming out this month? Why haven't we heard anything about this. It looks amazing!
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PeteBull
Member
If we get such quality graphics on ps6 so in 2028-2030 i will be happy camper, altho not super optimistic about it either ;DThe lighting and asset quality in that trailer is completely different from what we saw in the story trailer. It's not just production values, they were using a completely different engine. or possibly something pre-rendered. It's not like they can just work harder to make games look next gen lol.
Even the enemy models have this thick CG quality to them.
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Wishmaster92
Member
Remnant 2 uses 8K virtual textures unlike the matrix demo which seems to be using mostly 4k textures. The original UE5 unveil ps5 demo was also using 8k virtual textures all over. Mind you that remnant 2 is around 720p here compared to the matrix demo which is 1440p and the textures still look much sharper. Texture resolution is what sets this game apart and hopefully all future UE5 games are using 8k virtual textures.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
And that copied bin still looks like trashRemnant 2 uses 8K virtual textures unlike the matrix demo which seems to be using mostly 4k textures. The original UE5 unveil ps5 demo was also using 8k virtual textures all over. Mind you that remnant 2 is around 720p here compared to the matrix demo which is 1440p and the textures still look much sharper. Texture resolution is what sets this game apart and hopefully all future UE5 games are using 8k virtual textures.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
What's the point when the lighting looks so awful? The lack of AO on that trash bin makes me want to vomit.
Oh and look below everyone! This is the demo that looks an entire generation better than Spider-Man 2!!!! Wow it's so cutting edge!
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You will live.
Timestamped DF pointing out the repeating textures found all over Forspoken.
SenkiDala
Member
it's actually 60 on PS5
You shoulda said pun intended. Missed opportunity
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
You will live.
Timestamped DF pointing out the repeating textures found all over Forspoken.
And that has what to do exactly with poor trash bin from unreal store?
Everyone knows forspoken is not the best looking game. btw. This stuff was patched. there is new AO pass in the game and so on. df made a video.
And honestly it was always overblown. You really have to go out of your way to see that wall from this side that close
Wishmaster92
Member
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
What are we doing here?Because the difference is still insane
Is this game dev in 2023?
Inserting free 8k, 100mil polygons assets into your game that by no means need to be this detailed?
I mean... they didn't made it so they didn't waste time on it... but they waste resources on poorly (just high res) textured fire hydrant that consumes way too much resources on the system