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[Turk1993]

Those look better. I do remember Jotenheim when you first get there with Atreus and some linear Vanaheim levels you linked above looking excellent and way better than the rest of the game. But even in those gifs, you can still see the baked PS4 quality lighting and lack of volumetrics. That first Vanaheim gif has some great volumetrics but they feel very gamey instead of having this thick CG quality to them. Honestly, vanaheim outside of a few linear areas where they push the fidelity is easily the worst looking GOW level ive seen since the PS2 days. A shame considering more than half of the game is set there.

Compare those Vanaheim forest shots with the very linear FF16 forest sections and you will see.

Just a very natural feeling lighting solution with proper shadows instead of this harsh FC6 quality lighting you see in Vanaheim.

The gif Represent posted manages to capture that next gen cg look much better.

Midgard's frozen map looks great as well. Wish we had some FF16 snow levels to do some comparisons.

I mean it looks more natural than GOW (because GOW has that fantasy look) in those forrest gifs but it still nothing special or next gen. First one is too contrasty and the second gif has lots of missing shadows and no AO on the trees in the shadows. And everything looks super static.

 

[SlimySnake]

Lords of the Fallen visuals have really fallen since its reveal last year. Everything looks too clean and dull.



Here is Demon Souls. Timestamped to show off the Flamelurker boss arena. The volumetric lighting here just gives the level a more thick feel whereas the fantastic nanite visuals in Lords of the Fallen dont get to shine because of their lackluster lumens implementation.



Not a bad looking game, but its lacking that final pass in its visuals to take it to the next level.

 

[SlimySnake]

I mean it looks more natural than GOW (because GOW has that fantasy look) in those forrest gifs but it still nothing special or next gen. First one is too contrasty and the second gif has lots of missing shadows and no AO on the trees in the shadows. And everything looks super static.

The static part bugs me more than the lack of AO which i didnt even notice. Wish it felt more alive.

Also, how can shadows be missing if they are supposedly using RT shadows.

 

[Turk1993]

The static part bugs me more than the lack of AO which i didnt even notice. Wish it felt more alive.

Also, how can shadows be missing if they are supposedly using RT shadows.

Look at those leafs and bushes, they don't cast shadow. They are just glowing there and the worst part is the absence of AO makes it stick out more.

 

[ChiefDada]

Also, how can shadows be missing if they are supposedly using RT shadows.

They're not.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/square-enix-shadow-techniques-from-final-fantasy-xvi-tech-paper.1659395/#post-268244819

 

[ChiefDada]

Look at those leafs and bushes, they don't cast shadow. They are just glowing there and the worst part is the absence of AO makes it stick out more.

FF16 assets can lack physicality at times which can take away from immersion. You can often phase through them so maybe that's the reason. But if you're comparing Ragnarok vs FF16 shadow rendering overall, there's really no competition FF16 does it much better. It's the #1 reason why it looks next gen when it does. Also designing the game around HDR rendering is a big deal. People might laugh but that's one of the main reasons it's become so difficult to judge visuals by the screenshots we post here. FF16 never looked graphically stunning to me really until I played it on my TV. Thank God they had a demo otherwise I would've never bothered. They really need to start providing access to real-time trailers running straight from the console. Hasan Kahraman was a bullshitter but he was on to something with the idea.

 

[ChiefDada]

The next gameplay showcase (at Gamescom hopefully) there will be a short New cinematic setpiece during a rainny night (seamless cutscenes/gameplay transition) featuring Venom that will shut the doubters and trolls mouth.

I doubt SM2 shows up at Gamescom but we're so close to release anyway people will find out soon enough.

 

[SlimySnake]

You mean this, Venom in a rainy night cut scene. It really shut us down because of how shit it looks.

The funny thing is that it is supposed to look like this:

Rain is completely MIA. What happened to the rain droplets? Puddlegate 2.0?

Insomniac's bullshot game is strong. I remember this Miles ray tracing pic they showed before spiderman miles came out during the uproar about it being last gen. it looked so good it shut people up but then the game came out, and you cant even see the ray traced reflection because they dont put the camera all the way down. Framing is off and DoF isnt as good. If only they spent that much time photoshopping the actual cutscene.

I remember several articles posted with comparisons showing a generational leap over PS4, but those articles were using old PS4 footage of Spiderman. In the final game, this cutscene looks virtually identical between PS4 and PS5.

Also this one from Ratchet made the rounds back in the day.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Seriously Guys, graphics are not the problem with Insomniac games. Bullshots or not, the end product always looks attractive. It's just a torture to play.

 

[Turk1993]

The funny thing is that it is supposed to look like this:

Rain is completely MIA. What happened to the rain droplets? Puddlegate 2.0?

Even that doesn't look good, he still looks low res. They just photoshoped some particles and effects.

Insomniac's bullshot game is strong. I remember this Miles ray tracing pic they showed before spiderman miles came out during the uproar about it being last gen. it looked so good it shut people up but then the game came out, and you cant even see the ray traced reflection because they dont put the camera all the way down. Framing is off and DoF isnt as good. If only they spent that much time photoshopping the actual cutscene.

I remember several articles posted with comparisons showing a generational leap over PS4, but those articles were using old PS4 footage of Spiderman. In the final game, this cutscene looks virtually identical between PS4 and PS5.

Yup they love those enhanced bullshots which is weird since there games look really good most of the time.

Also this one from Ratchet made the rounds back in the day.

Yeah lol i remember that one. I just finished R&C recently and i have some mixed feelings about its graphics which im gonna brake down in a seperate post.

 

[Flabagast]

lol I totally forgot about this gem of a post from before the Spiderman reveal.

Oh we are laughing alright.


Yeesh. I guess series s held back Spiderman 2 as well?

I guess It was correct to think that after all.

Mark Cerny's biggest masterpiece since Knack.

Expectation:

Reality:

 

[ChiefDada]

I advise ChiefDada never to post again in this thread. He made an utter fool of himself

 

[alloush]

My boi deleted/edited his post after you punk’d him

 

[ChiefDada]

My boi deleted/edited his post after you punk’d him

Lol there was no need for him to delete. I'm not even trying to punk him I just didn't recognize him as a regular here. Seemed out of the blue.

 

[Schmendrick]

lumens

forgive me here but you're getting it wrong every single time you mention it and it starts to feel like an itch on the inside of my skull.... The tech is called Lumen, not lumens.

 

[SlimySnake]

Lol there was no need for him to delete. I'm not even trying to punk him I just didn't recognize him as a regular here. Seemed out of the blue.

This might be his first post here, but he's now my best friend.

 

[SlimySnake]

Look at those leafs and bushes, they don't cast shadow. They are just glowing there and the worst part is the absence of AO makes it stick out more.

What do you make of this?

Whats the point of having RT shadows if they dont cast correctly lol

 

[SlimySnake]

Had to go in and see if i could get the ray traced reflections to look that good since jstevenson himself said that this was ray traced.

there are other indoor areas that are more reflective so i will try them, but the streets simply dont have those kind of reflections.

Here is a shot of what NYC looks like at night. Not seeing a major difference.

 

[ChiefDada]

Here is a shot of what NYC looks like at night. Not seeing a major difference.

Am I tripping fellas or is Slimy really trying to bait me? You all KNOW how I feel about night rendering! For the love of God and all that is holy please don't gaslight me just this once guys I beg of you!!!

 

[arkhamguy123]

Am I tripping fellas or is Slimy really trying to bait me? You all KNOW how I feel about night rendering! For the love of God and all that is holy please don't gaslight me just this once guys I beg of you!!!

I mean frankly I think the upgrade will be minor but the slimysnake shots, and I could be wrong, one is from a cutscene and has art direction, you can see how dark it is around the edges, and the other is just gameplay “hey here’s a video game” kind of a shot

 

[hussar16]

Bro, that witcher3 bullshot trailer has quality similar to next gen version maxed on pc(some things better, some worse since it was prerendered after all ;p), not only ps4/xbox one couldnt run it, no pc gpu, not even flagship one with msrp of 999$ - trailer premiered december 2013, u know what was top gpu back then? GTX Titan( first og titan with 6gigs of vram) that launched in feb 2013.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-titan.c1996 Thats this gpu specs, compare how it performs, similar to rx 480 and weaker from both gtx 1650super and rx 6500xt.

Trailer was prerendered aka not running in real time, aka 100% bullshot.

Ok whatevr you say. The devs said they had other lighting engines before they started porting witcher 3 onto consoles which this one in the trailer would be the one they scrapped.in no way is this prerendered as it uses exactly the same animations from the game. It is running on a pc in engine. So no these are not bullshots as they were running in engine like cdred claimed. If they claimed it was running on consoles then yes that is bullshots

 

[timothet]

What irks me more than it should is repeating patterns of lights on a lot of buildings in the top image. It isn't something big, but once I noticed it... It looks very inorganic and fake.
I never played the game, but can someone who did tell me if it's like that all the time, or randomizer just didn't do good job of shuffling turned on lights this time?

 

[ThatPolishGuy]

As I said earlier in the thread I think if Insomniac chose that style of art direction they could make a game that looked a lot like that art on a PS5 at 1080p/30fps and a PS5 Pro at 1440p/60fps.

Look what Rocksteady did with a Jaguar CPU, 5GB of RAM, a 1.3/1.8tf GPU and an old spinning HDD with Arkham Knight in 2015. It's arguably still better looking than most new current gen only games when ran on a modern PC at 4k/60fps and it's assets are almost a decade old.

In short art direction is king and because of a night time setting (which hides a lot of flaws) and a lot of rain which shows the reflections of neon it's far more impressive to our eyes than a bland New York from reality in full daylight which causes a plethora of visuals issues including indirect lighting and no where for the lower quality assets to hide.

I guarantee you next time they show Spider-Man 2 it will be during the night with rain and lots of RT reflections while Miles is flying through the city at break neck speeds and people will do a 180 on it's visuals lol.

Also people are comparing shots from compressed youtube videos.

Not sure if blog screenshots are gimped but those pop more and look generally more impressive.

We will see after the game releases what is true and what is not. I am not defending Insomniac in case blog screenshots are BS. Just pointing some stuff in case they are not.

 

[SABRE220]

Am I tripping fellas or is Slimy really trying to bait me? You all KNOW how I feel about night rendering! For the love of God and all that is holy please don't gaslight me just this once guys I beg of you!!!

Lol Im just trying to figure out how you can go from hyping spiderman2 to having movie like visuals pre trailer to defending the trailer visuals as a toure de force so seamlessly. I mean if I had my expectations shredded so badly I would be asking what the heck have insomniac been doing going since ratchet.

 

[Schmendrick]

Lol Im just trying to figure out how you can go from hyping spiderman2 to having movie like visuals pre trailer to defending the trailer visuals as a toure de force so seamlessly. I mean if I had my expectations shredded so badly I would be asking what the heck have insomniac been doing going since ratchet.

Dada`s stance to SM2 visuals over the course of this thread:

 

[alloush]

Dada`s stance to SM2 visuals over the course of this thread:

Jesus Christ this is hilarious

 

[alloush]

“Featuring strong feminine energy”

 

[Rheon]

“Featuring strong feminine energy”

"strong feminine energy"

 

[DuduIsDisappointed]

Am I tripping fellas or is Slimy really trying to bait me? You all KNOW how I feel about night rendering! For the love of God and all that is holy please don't gaslight me just this once guys I beg of you!!!

Just remmeber that the nextgen standard here can vary a lot from a game to another.

 

[ChiefDada]

This looks excellent.

 

[Musilla]

Just remmeber that the nextgen standard here can vary a lot from a game to another.

Looks so much better in motion...

 

[TheRedRiders]

“Featuring strong feminine energy”

I'm actually looking forward to this, it caught my attention when they mentioned it'll by once of the darkest AC games and have occult themes, a subject which I've been interested in for a while.

I don't mind the "feminine energy", it makes sense given the context of the game revolving around the Witch trials. Off topic I know... but if I can tie it back into next-gen graphics, I'm curious what direction Ubisoft are going in terms of their visuals, the games have always looked great but we're seeing less and less investment in graphics in recent months by so many studios. I know Mirage is not exactly next-gen but man I do think the game's visuals look fantastic.

Hopefully Hexe can pluck features from games like Avatar in terms of graphical features, I do hope Ubisoft at least try to push the visuals in some way.

 

[GymWolf]

Yo slimy, jedi survivor setpiece was so nextgen that the game is coming on ps4-xone aswell

ff16 is next when the pc requirement are gonna be way lower than a ps5.

Revenge sure taste sweet.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yo slimy, jedi survivor setpiece was so nextgen that the game is coming on ps4-xone aswell

ff16 is next when the pc requirement are gonna be way lower than a ps5.

Revenge sure taste sweet.

Way ahead of you.

This is very interesting analysis of Ratchet and Remnant 2 running on a 1.7 tflops steam deck.

Both require a lot of sacrifices to resolution in order to run on a 720p display (Ratchet FSR Performance at 720p, Remnant FSR Balanced at 560p), but ratchet scales very well even running at Medium settings. Meanwhile UE5's tech is too much for the steam deck GPU and it looks like complete trash compared to the next gen console versions.

Just another game where Insomniac for whatever reason didnt bother pushing the PS5 GPU despite being told to make a next gen only game. I just wish GG and SSM were the ones who were given a license to make next gen only games because insmoniac's graphics team are making games that can easily be ported to last gen hardware.



Remnant 2 doesnt even feature lumens and completely buckles under the pressure of running on last gen hardware. Ratchet's ssd usage is still its biggest next gen asset so at least insomniac is one of the few studios to do anything with the PS5 hardware.

Apparently star wars is getting backported to run on PS4. It will be interesting to see a 960p 30 fps game running on last gen hardware. Im guessing RT goes away and they gain a lot of performance back. Same goes for FF16 which also drops to 1080p at times. Would love to see it running on a steam deck.

 

[alloush]

I'm actually looking forward to this, it caught my attention when they mentioned it'll by once of the darkest AC games and have occult themes, a subject which I've been interested in for a while.

I don't mind the "feminine energy", it makes sense given the context of the game revolving around the Witch trials. Off topic I know... but if I can tie it back into next-gen graphics, I'm curious what direction Ubisoft are going in terms of their visuals, the games have always looked great but we're seeing less and less investment in graphics in recent months by so many studios. I know Mirage is not exactly next-gen but man I do think the game's visuals look fantastic.

Hopefully Hexe can pluck features from games like Avatar in terms of graphical features, I do hope Ubisoft at least try to push the visuals in some way.

Honestly, I think Mirage looks much better than people are giving it credit. I am interested in this one as well, the one after mirage. Let’s see what they bring to the table.

After their last showcase I can’t help but get excited about upcoming Ubisoft projects. They definitely piqued my interest with their latest showcase.

 

[GymWolf]

Way ahead of you.

no no no you said that the setpiece with the metal tentacles felt more nextgen than most stuff this year, no matter if you cut rtx and res, a real nextgen setpiece would not be possible on a ps4, full stop.


Thinking that precanned destruction and limited qte fest setpieces was somehow nextgen was always your big mistake.

Gow ragnarock didn't do that because it was probably the b team or the director is just like me and think that humanoid fights are more fun and challenging than big ass monsters with barely any gameplay, not because the game was crossgen.
We had the fucking kronos on ps3 dude or look at what bayo3 does on a damn switch.

And you can bet your ass that ff16 is gonna have lower requirements than a ps5.

 

[analog_future]

"strong feminine energy"

girls have cooties!

 

[SlimySnake]

no no no you said that the setpiece with the metal tentacles felt more nextgen than most stuff this year, no matter if you cut rtx and res, a real nextgen setpiece would not be possible on a ps4, full stop.


Thinking that precanned destruction and limited qte fest setpieces was somehow nextgen was always your big mistake.

Gow ragnarock didn't do that because it was probably the b team or the director is just like me and think that humanoid fights are more fun and challenging than big ass monsters with barely any gameplay, not because the game was crossgen.
We had the fucking kronos on ps3 dude or look at what bayo3 does on a damn switch.

And you can bet your ass that ff16 is gonna have lower requirements than a ps5.

Well FF16 devs themselves said that the game was possible on the PS4. They just didnt do it because it wouldve taken an additional year or two. We are likely seeing the same thing here with Star Wars.

I will be curious to see these setpieces run on last gen machines. Graphics wise, FF16 and Star Wars can both look last gen at times so with some smart cutbacks they can get there. That said, when they look good, they really look good and push the PS5 hard in ways Ratchet didnt so i suspect the cutbacks will be severe like Remnant 2. i was running Star Wars at native 4k 35 fps on my 3080. That means the PS5 is around 1440p natively. Twice as expensive as Ratchet, and the game is very CPU bound. Jaguar CPUs will have a rough time running it.

EDIT: I went back and played Miles, HFW, Demon Souls and Ratchet before going back to FF16 thinking playing great looking games will expose FF16's visuals but nope. FF16 still looked stunning. Even the first couple of open worlds looked great. HFW was the most striking with vibrant lighting, but it didnt make FF16 look last gen or anything.

 

[GymWolf]

Well FF16 devs themselves said that the game was possible on the PS4. They just didnt do it because it wouldve taken an additional year or two. We are likely seeing the same thing here with Star Wars.

I will be curious to see these setpieces run on last gen machines. Graphics wise, FF16 and Star Wars can both look last gen at times so with some smart cutbacks they can get there. That said, when they look good, they really look good and push the PS5 hard in ways Ratchet didnt so i suspect the cutbacks will be severe like Remnant 2. i was running Star Wars at native 4k 35 fps on my 3080. That means the PS5 is around 1440p natively. Twice as expensive as Ratchet, and the game is very CPU bound. Jaguar CPUs will have a rough time running it.

Dude you have to try rem2 on pc, the game costantly surprise me with the texture quality for an AA, sometimes i even do comparisons with demons remake.

4k dlss quality and the game is pristine and super crisp, i love crisp visuals (and i have the sharpness setting on my tv at 0 where most people have it at 10 or 20).

Give this team 500 men for rem3 and it's gonna look incredible.

 

[SlimySnake]

Dude you have to try rem2 on pc, the game costantly surprise me with the texture quality for an AA, sometimes i even do comparisons with demons remake.

4k dlss quality and the game is pristine and super crisp, i love crisp visuals (and i have the sharpness setting on my tv at 0 where most people have it at 10 or 20).

Give this team 500 men for rem3 and it's gonna look incredible.

Well you have a 4080. My 3080 is not doing 4k dlss quality or even performance. Maybe performance if i cap at 40 fps. I will probably get it when i upgrade.

I am also done with souls like games. I just cant do it. Give me metroidvanias instead. This bullshit souls like difficulty is no longer my idea of fun gameplay.

 

[Rheon]

girls have cooties!

 

[ChiefDada]

Dude you have to try rem2 on pc, the game costantly surprise me with the texture quality for an AA, sometimes i even do comparisons with demons remake.

4k dlss quality and the game is pristine and super crisp, i love crisp visuals (and i have the sharpness setting on my tv at 0 where most people have it at 10 or 20).

Give this team 500 men for rem3 and it's gonna look incredible.

Someone else was praising the texture detail as well. Afaik, Nanite geometry was only UE5 feature confirmed. I wonder if virtual textures are being used here too.

 

[SlimySnake]

Am I tripping fellas or is Slimy really trying to bait me? You all KNOW how I feel about night rendering! For the love of God and all that is holy please don't gaslight me just this once guys I beg of you!!!

Well, that's your biggest mistake. This is not about you. It's about Insomniac and my issues with them wasting the potential of the PS5 despite being one of the lucky few to be allowed to make next gen only games.

You guys take everything too personally. I see Avatar being posted as a rebuttal and i just laugh because its obvious that people are making this personal as if they work at Insomniac.

My posting history should speak for itself. Ive stanned for these PS exclusives in this very thread let alone forum for years. But when studios start phoning in visuals or worse misleading us with downgrades and bullshots then they deserve to be called out. This is Sony first party's only next gen game this year with literally nothing lined up for next year. This is it. This should be devastating to any PS fan.

And Im not the only one, this was one of the related threads on the bottom of this page. Everyone had high expectations for Spiderman.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/visual-wise-this-generation-has-been-a-disappointment-which-is-i-have-unrealistically-high-expectations-for-spider-man-2-graphically.1653363/

 

[ChiefDada]

Well, that's your biggest mistake. This is not about you. It's about Insomniac and my issues with them wasting the potential of the PS5 despite being one of the lucky few to be allowed to make next gen only games.

You guys take everything too personally. I see Avatar being posted as a rebuttal and i just laugh because its obvious that people are making this personal as if they work at Insomniac.

My posting history should speak for itself. Ive stanned for these PS exclusives in this very thread let alone forum for years. But when studios start phoning in visuals or worse misleading us with downgrades and bullshots then they deserve to be called out. This is Sony first party's only next gen game this year with literally nothing lined up for next year. This is it. This should be devastating to any PS fan.

And Im not the only one, this was one of the related threads on the bottom of this page. Everyone had high expectations for Spiderman.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/visual-wise-this-generation-has-been-a-disappointment-which-is-i-have-unrealistically-high-expectations-for-spider-man-2-graphically.1653363/

It... it wasn't a serious post.

 

[H . R . 2]

Looks so much better in motion...

ooof...and Slimy was complaining about the DD and the fog in Horizon

 

[H . R . 2]

P.S. I am still shocked by how underwhelming SM2 has been. as a hardcore PS fan I must say, Sony Studios better step up their games. their recent output has been extremely boring and lackluster.
also, I am neither as impressed nor as convinced as others seem to be by Avatar , Starwars, FF16 or any other game for that matter [including games such as Project M or Alan Wake]. People are getting used to mediocrity, I guess.
and they are subconsciously and ever so gently embracing the mediocrity and inconsistencies in these games. I think the paucity of quality games has triggered the coping mechanism in most of us

The last I was impressed was The Matrix Demo. [proponents, save your breath about it not being a game.]

 

[shamoomoo]

P.S. I am still shocked by how underwhelming SM2 has been. as a hardcore PS fan I must say, Sony Studios better step up their games. their recent output has been extremely boring and lackluster.
also, I am neither as impressed nor as convinced as others seem to be by Avatar , Starwars, FF16 or any other game for that matter [including games such as Project M or Alan Wake]. People are getting used to mediocrity, I guess.
and they are subconsciously and ever so gently embracing the mediocrity and inconsistencies in these games. I think the paucity of quality games has triggered the coping mechanism in most of us

The last I was impressed was The Matrix Demo. [proponents, save your breath about it not being a game.]

But there wasn't any gameplay elements, just a demo of graphics with a relatively static world. It's not like there was a physics demo or object density.

 

[Punished Miku]

Looks so much better in motion...

That's some next gen hip movement.

 

[Cr1ptkeeper]

I can live with PS4.5 graphics if they just make the worlds more alive. Doesn't matter what genre game.
Let grass sway like in Ghost of T. but make it better. Let trees sway like in that reveal trailer of Ghost. Make rain in games like MGS2 tanker level (still the best rain in a video game for me) but better. Leaves and anything made of cloth that react to wind. All that kind of stuff.
For example, the weather effect (rain and snow) in Diablo 4 are a joke, it's like a 2D video that's playing in front of your game. No depth at all.

Get rid of the static objects, the world isn't static.

 

[arkhamguy123]

But there wasn't any gameplay elements, just a demo of graphics with a relatively static world. It's not like there was a physics demo or object density.

A this isn’t even true and B the very next line after what you highlighted and bolded was “save your breath about it not being a game”