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[Represent.]

Another Unreal Engine 5 game.

Just watched this on my phone so maybe that’s why, but this shit looks fantastic. What the fuck is this?

And is there any combat in it? Or another walking sim?

 

[ChiefDada]

Just watched this on my phone so maybe that’s why, but this shit looks fantastic. What the fuck is this?

And is there any combat in it? Or another walking sim?

Bro it looks crazy insane! Look at the beautiful lighting. This is what I'm talking about when I obsess over localized lighting and having shadows where they should be. Apparently this comes out in 3 weeks!!!!! Wtf where has the promo been. I'm already sold just on graphics alone.

 

[Wishmaster92]

The lighting and asset quality in that trailer is completely different from what we saw in the story trailer. It's not just production values, they were using a completely different engine. or possibly something pre-rendered. It's not like they can just work harder to make games look next gen lol.

Even the enemy models have this thick CG quality to them.

Not even that, you can tell that was an obvious bull shot trailer because there is no image breakup. Freeze any frame and it is nice and sharp. Pull up the latest trailer and do the same. You will see lots of image breakup artifacts likely from being upscaled or their taa solution.

 

[ChiefDada]

What are we doing here?
Is this game dev in 2023?
Inserting free 8k, 100mil polygons assets into your game that by no means need to be this detailed?
I mean... they didn't made it so they didn't waste time on it... but they waste resources on poorly (just high res) textured fire hydrant that consumes way too much resources on the system

Rofif, I stopped asking such questions in this thread long ago. I just come in for my daily dose of crazy. It's a very effective counterbalance to the mundane processes I have to slog through at work during the summer time.

I will say often times textures and lighting gravitates towards 2 different bottlenecks, memory vs compute. So you might have a machine that is bound by one or the other. The devs most likely took the easy/easier win with the high res textures.

 

[ChiefDada]

Not even that, you can tell that was an obvious bull shot trailer because there is no image breakup. Freeze any frame and it is nice and sharp. Pull up the latest trailer and do the same. You will see lots of image breakup artifacts likely from being upscaled or their taa solution.

A bull shot (whatever the f*** that means in this thread) trailer with mediocre volumetric steam running at half the framerate? I doubt it.

 

[alloush]

 

[ChiefDada]

My bet is September for next PS showcase.

 

[Trilobit]

Now that's the quality of lighting I like to see!

Edit: Wait this is on PS5!? I thought PC. And it's coming out this month? Why haven't we heard anything about this. It looks amazing!

Whoa! That looks veeery good. Amazing lighting! I'm always up for scifi horror. Even going to buy the PS2 The Thing game eventually.

Edit: Watching the video, can't stop staring at the light scattering in his hair.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

You will live.

Timestamped DF pointing out the repeating textures found all over Forspoken.

Lmao, so petty! I love it!

 

[Whitecrow]

Bro it looks crazy insane! Look at the beautiful lighting. This is what I'm talking about when I obsess over localized lighting and having shadows where they should be. Apparently this comes out in 3 weeks!!!!! Wtf where has the promo been. I'm already sold just on graphics alone.

I'm also sold on the banter and acting. Looks way more natural and matture than anything I've seen in a long time.

 

[setoman]

A bull shot (whatever the f*** that means in this thread) trailer with mediocre volumetric steam running at half the framerate? I doubt it.

You can be bullshot and still have limitations. Like are you even being serious right now?

 

[Negotiator101]

You can be bullshot and still have limitations. Like are you even being serious right now?

I believe he is.

 

[setoman]

Which Miles Morales?

PS4 version?

or Native PS5 version?

If you're saying having acouple more point lights in an interior scene and acouple more point lights in vfx makes a game Next Gen.
Then you are roughly saying a 5-10% increase in visuals is considered next generation.

If that's the case then the PC version of every PS4/XBO game is the next gen version. Because we all know PC version had better:

- Better Textures (4k textures?)
- Better Shadows
- Better AO
- Better Draw Distance
- Better Level Of Detail
- Better Volumetric Effects
- Better Material Shaders
- Better Resolution
- Sometimes better Lighting
- and now better Reflections

But you know that's not the case because even you were expecting this:

3. Spiderman 2 will be compared to offline rendering when it releases.

And then you noted it would look like this:

TL;DR - This is what we're getting

I believe this was what you were expecting. So even you don't believe that 5-10% bump in graphics should be considered next gen. Again no one is saying SM2 is a bad looking game. Its a good looking game with improvements from SM1R and MM. Improvements such as hair rendering, more fresnel on materials, added dithering on hair and cloth, better eye rendering (now uses double normal) and very slight improvement to lighting.

But its not this, its not what you were expecting:

 

[SlimySnake]

If we get such quality graphics on ps6 so in 2028-2030 i will be happy camper, altho not super optimistic about it either ;D

lol before the Spiderman 2 gameplay reveal, we were actually discussing how underwhelming this teaser was compared to the Matrix. Now we think its PS6 era graphics.

And that has what to do exactly with poor trash bin from unreal store?
Everyone knows forspoken is not the best looking game. btw. This stuff was patched. there is new AO pass in the game and so on. df made a video.
And honestly it was always overblown. You really have to go out of your way to see that wall from this side that close

What are we doing here?
Is this game dev in 2023?
Inserting free 8k, 100mil polygons assets into your game that by no means need to be this detailed?
I mean... they didn't made it so they didn't waste time on it... but they waste resources on poorly (just high res) textured fire hydrant that consumes way too much resources on the system

I was kidding, but I dont see the problem with them using a trash can. trash cans are like post boxes, they are the same everywhere. Not to mention things you dont notice, like the back of a castle wall.

And yes, this is game dev in 2023. There is no need to develop assets from scratch when Epic is making available their entire Quixel megascan library for free with UE5. If we believe that graphics and detailed worlds are the reason why game dev is getting so long then why not reuse throw away assets like trash cans and fire hydrants to save on dev time. Its not like ND didnt do that with Uncharted and The Last of Us borrowing a lot of assets. Hell, Horizon uses the same set of trees and foliage everywhere in the game. no one complained about repeating assets. we understand that the world has repeated assets.

 

[SlimySnake]

lol I totally forgot about this gem of a post from before the Spiderman reveal.

Well, I'll take another swing at it. The main reasons why I believe/know Spider-Man 2 will blow the Matrix Demo out of the water to the point where we'll all be laughing at the memory of us praising it so much.

Oh we are laughing alright.

1. The Matrix demo was ultimately designed and limited around a console with not only less than half the theoretical TFLOP performance of the PS5, but 1000x more importantly, PS5 has double the memory bandwidth and AT WORST, over double SSD throughput, and 1.6x memory capacity. And yet with such a wide delta between Series S and PS5, the differences in how they ran the demo was negligible - insignificant resolution difference and a few missing reflections on the S. The core attributes of the demo that were shown on PS5 were also present in Series S, which should tell you that PS5 is capable of SO MUCH MORE.

Yeesh. I guess series s held back Spiderman 2 as well?

2. The Matrix World layout was iteratred over and over in a matter of weeks using Houdini. Insomniac also uses Houdini for SM world map crafting - so what kind of results do you expect from the developer who has arguably embraced current gen the most, with a 9 figure budget and five years to develop the sequel to the most successful super hero franchise on the planet compared to what Epic was doing with the Matrix?

3. World Partitioning System was a major talking point of UE5, but Insomniac has implemented WP like tech back in 2018 with OG Spider-Man. That is why it's incorrect to think Epic is at the forefront of every tech they displayed with UE5.

I guess It was correct to think that after all.

4 Mark Cerny is no doubt reprising his role as executive producer. Hmmm what are the last two games he worked on? Horizon Forbidden West and Ratchet. Enough Said.

Mark Cerny's biggest masterpiece since Knack.

Expectation:

TL;DR - This is what we're getting

Reality:

 

[ChiefDada]

I'm sitting here trying to figure out why my posts on SM2 are suddenly getting dragged back in the mix. You guys got my hopes up of new screenshots or something. Then I realized I'm being pestered by an alt. Disappointed and annoyed.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I don't see it happening till right before Spider-man 2 launch, so around late September and early October.

 

[SlimySnake]

Since Far Cry 6 is on PS+ now and Ubisoft has this $1 deal on PC for Uplay+, i figured id give it a shot. I remember seeing some fancy gifs so figured at the very least i will get some pretty visuals on PC maxed out.

Stuff like this:

Wrong. It looks fugly. Late PS3 era lighting. Brownish UE3 quality lighting with some of the ugliest foliage ever. They have clearly upped the foliage density here but I really dislike how ugly it all looks. It is a generation behind Horizon FW, and gives me a new appreciation for games like Star Wars and Final Fantasy that feature way better lighting and dense foliage that actually makes the game look good. You look at what Ubisoft did with FC6 and compare it to Avatar, and its a clear generational leap in lighting and foliage quality.

Even the city levels look absolutely horrendous with low level of detail and some of the worst art ive ever seen. This studio made Far Cry 3 that set the bar in 2012 and have absolutely been phoning it in for the last 10 years or so. FC4 looked cross gen with the PS3 because it was a cross gen game but FC6?? Why does it still have PS3 quality graphics elements? Surely they should know that no matter how high your draw distance and no matter how much foliage you display on screen at once, the fidelity of the graphics still needs to be better.

This shot is from the PC benchmark and my jaw dropped at how poor this looked for a 2021 AAA game.

P.S Been replaying FF16's story missions and it is obvious that the game was developed as a linear game first with some of the best looking visuals ive seen all gen. Then you go into open world levels and it all falls apart. That opening level in the rocky mountains has some of the best looking rocks ive ever seen. Probably because its all linear. If it wasnt so inconsistent, i would have no problems saying it looks better than HFW and Demon Souls for the best looking game of the gen.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

Since Far Cry 6 is on PS+ now and Ubisoft has this $1 deal on PC for Uplay+, i figured id give it a shot. I remember seeing some fancy gifs so figured at the very least i will get some pretty visuals on PC maxed out.

Stuff like this:

Wrong. It looks fugly. Late PS3 era lighting. Brownish UE3 quality lighting with some of the ugliest foliage ever. They have clearly upped the foliage density here but I really dislike how ugly it all looks. It is a generation behind Horizon FW, and gives me a new appreciation for games like Star Wars and Final Fantasy that feature way better lighting and dense foliage that actually makes the game look good. You look at what Ubisoft did with FC6 and compare it to Avatar, and its a clear generational leap in lighting and foliage quality.

Even the city levels look absolutely horrendous with low level of detail and some of the worst art ive ever seen. This studio made Far Cry 3 that set the bar in 2012 and have absolutely been phoning it in for the last 10 years or so. FC4 looked cross gen with the PS3 because it was a cross gen game but FC6?? Why does it still have PS3 quality graphics elements? Surely they should know that no matter how high your draw distance and no matter how much foliage you display on screen at once, the fidelity of the graphics still needs to be better.

This shot is from the PC benchmark and my jaw dropped at how poor this looked for a 2021 AAA game.

P.S Been replaying FF16's story missions and it is obvious that the game was developed as a linear game first with some of the best looking visuals ive seen all gen. Then you go into open world levels and it all falls apart. That opening level in the rocky mountains has some of the best looking rocks ive ever seen. Probably because its all linear. If it wasnt so inconsistent, i would have no problems saying it looks better than HFW and Demon Souls for the best looking game of the gen.

I think it stands to reason that if you are going for killer visuals, you should do a more linear game. idk why everyone wants to do open world everything, there is a place for linearity and linearity by its very nature allows for better visuals.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think it stands to reason that if you are going for killer visuals, you should do a more linear game. idk why everyone wants to do open world everything, there is a place for linearity and linearity by its very nature allows for better visuals.

I think the big 16x vram increase let the devs push visual fidelity in open world games last gen with lots of different assets and way bigger textures. Some of the best looking games early last gen were open world. Infamous, AC Unity, Horizon, Division, Arkham Knight, and Witcher 3 all set the bar in one way or another, and people just assumed everyone could have high fidelity visuals in an open world setting. But Japanese devs clearly struggled with that change in design paradigm. FF15, Forspoken, Monster Hunter, Zelda, and Elden Rings just dont look as good as their western counterparts.

Western devs have also been held back. It's a shame that we didnt see anything that topped linear games like Ryse and The Order. TLOU2 came close towards the end of last gen, but those linear games are still on par with some of the best looking games 8-10 years later.

one linear game that doesnt get enough credit for its visuals is Detroit. We throw around CG a lot these days but some of the scenes in night time rainy areas looked straight up pre-rendered even on base PS4.

 

[DuduIsDisappointed]

Just watched this on my phone so maybe that’s why, but this shit looks fantastic. What the fuck is this?

And is there any combat in it? Or another walking sim?

Finally a good contender for SM2 graphics wise.

But this is a walking/climbing simulator so far. No fun allowed.

 

[DuduIsDisappointed]

lol I totally forgot about this gem of a post from before the Spiderman reveal.

Oh we are laughing alright.


Yeesh. I guess series s held back Spiderman 2 as well?

I guess It was correct to think that after all.

Mark Cerny's biggest masterpiece since Knack.

Expectation:

Reality:

I agree SM2 doenst look as nextgen as this:

 

[SlimySnake]

Here is a gif comparison between GoW Ragnorak, a last gen showpiece, and FF16, a bizarre schizo game that looks last gen and next gen in a span of an hour. Two similar melee action games with linear and wide linear sections.

I can easily see the difference in lighting and volumetrics here. Part of it is the art direction with FF16 going for a less stylized look, but other effects are clearly better.

GOW

 

[TheRedRiders]

Here is a gif comparison between GoW Ragnorak, a last gen showpiece, and FF16, a bizarre schizo game that looks last gen and next gen in a span of an hour. Two similar melee action games with linear and wide linear sections.

I can easily see the difference in lighting and volumetrics here. Part of it is the art direction with FF16 going for a less stylized look, but other effects are clearly better.

GOW

I remember a GOW VFX artist talking about how they were leveraging the PS5's SSD to stream 4K visual effects like explosions instantaneously. The vision seems to be more realised with FF16, which pushed all these crazy visual effects hard especially during the boss battles.

 

[ChiefDada]

Midnight in FFXVI:

Midnight in GoW Ragnarok:

I really couldn't believe how awful Vanaheim looked at night. How do you allow your most successful franchise to go out looking like this?

 

[Represent.]

FF16 vs GOW Ragnarok is a good battle actually. Would like to see more comparisons.

I'm still waiting to play FF16. There is no way in fuck im paying $105.09 for it (Canadian price, trash country atm)

 

[Represent.]

I truly loved GOW 2018. I had such high high hopes for Ragnarok. But the second they announced it as cross gen trash, those hopes died. I knew immediately that it would be a standard sequel - great game, but not the industry leading graphics or genre defining experience we've come to expect from the God of war series.

Like it still looks great, but was still literally a high end PS4 Pro game in high resolution on PS5.

Some parts looked next gen at times - Like this fight.

But for their PS5 only game they better get back to being the Santa Monica graphical powerhouse they used to be. Its insane they went from top 3-4 in the industry with their graphical prowess to... out of the top 10?

 

[saintjules]

Maybe by generation's end we could see something like this?

 

[alloush]

Maybe by generation's end we could see something like this?

I loved the graphics on this when they firstly revealed it. Gorgeous, gorgeous stuff honestly. I truly believe the current consoles are capable of producing visuals like that, probably by the end of the gen.

 

[Turk1993]

Here is a gif comparison between GoW Ragnorak, a last gen showpiece, and FF16, a bizarre schizo game that looks last gen and next gen in a span of an hour. Two similar melee action games with linear and wide linear sections.

I can easily see the difference in lighting and volumetrics here. Part of it is the art direction with FF16 going for a less stylized look, but other effects are clearly better.

GOW

nah man

 

[SlimySnake]

nah man

Those look better. I do remember Jotenheim when you first get there with Atreus and some linear Vanaheim levels you linked above looking excellent and way better than the rest of the game. But even in those gifs, you can still see the baked PS4 quality lighting and lack of volumetrics. That first Vanaheim gif has some great volumetrics but they feel very gamey instead of having this thick CG quality to them. Honestly, vanaheim outside of a few linear areas where they push the fidelity is easily the worst looking GOW level ive seen since the PS2 days. A shame considering more than half of the game is set there.

Compare those Vanaheim forest shots with the very linear FF16 forest sections and you will see.

Just a very natural feeling lighting solution with proper shadows instead of this harsh FC6 quality lighting you see in Vanaheim.

The gif Represent posted manages to capture that next gen cg look much better.

Midgard's frozen map looks great as well. Wish we had some FF16 snow levels to do some comparisons.

 

[rofif]

1:15 as cutscene ends. FF16 can look fkn incredible. The game looks like a ps2 mmo at times but when it looks amazing, it looks like the best looking game ever

 

[Musilla]

 

[ChiefDada]

You are very brave for posting this.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I'm sitting here trying to figure out why my posts on SM2 are suddenly getting dragged back in the mix. You guys got my hopes up of new screenshots or something. Then I realized I'm being pestered by an alt. Disappointed and annoyed.

By your own words you should be more disappointed in SM2 than anyone else here. As Slimy pointed out by using your own quotes, you had higher expectations for it than anyone else here for this game. Instead of deflecting and acting like you're a victim of attacks by "alts", why don't you address how it is you can be so staunchly defending Spidey 2 after, clearly, nothing they've shown has lived up to your words.

 

[Represent.]

Everytime you post a TLOU gif I want to replay it

 

[ChiefDada]

By your own words you should be more disappointed in SM2 than anyone else here. As Slimy pointed out by using your own quotes, you had higher expectations for it than anyone else here for this game. Instead of deflecting and acting like you're a victim of attacks by "alts", why don't you address how it is you can be so staunchly defending Spidey 2 after, clearly, nothing they've shown has lived up to your words.

Because we've already been through the back and forth. We don't agree on the visual metrics that make a game current gen worthy. We don't even agree as to whether or not development is complete. Where else is there to go at this point? I already said in this thread SM2 has met my expectations after looking at the story trailer so your statement is false. I'm not "defending" anything, I'm impressed with the visuals.

 

[ChiefDada]

Uh-oh look what M Musilla has started...

I will resubmit this TLOU1 clip. I still haven't seen a game with better rain and water simulation.

 

[alloush]

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

No! That would mean they're targeting pointless 8k instead of Ray Tracing

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Because we've already been through the back and forth. We don't agree on the visual metrics that make a game current gen worthy. We don't even agree as to whether or not development is complete. Where else is there to go at this point? I already said in this thread SM2 has met my expectations after looking at the story trailer so your statement is false. I'm not "defending" anything, I'm impressed with the visuals.

But you claimed CG quality and "blowing Matrix out of the water"

You can't keep lowering the bar and claiming it met your expectations.

Well, you CAN if you want to but expect to be called for it.

 

[ChiefDada]

No! That would mean they're targeting pointless 8k instead of Ray Tracing

Not at all. 8k would be great for supersampling/AA. Basically the best AA without any artifacts by pure brute force. Think about the benefits the Touryst got rendering 8k on a 4k tv. It's literally the same thing the PS4 Pro was doing with 1080p tv's

Edit: Also they're not gimping on RT, that is going to be PS5 Pro focus. RDNA 4 and/or Cerny custom RT. 3090 raster. It will be better than 7900xtx at RT workloads because of the traversal hardware.

 

[ChiefDada]

But you claimed CG quality and "blowing Matrix out of the water"

You can't keep lowering the bar and claiming it met your expectations.

Well, you CAN if you want to but expect to be called for it.

Ok. Let's come back when the game releases. 3 months will be here before you know it.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Ok. Let's come back when the game releases. 3 months will be here before you know it.

Fine

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Not at all. 8k would be great for supersampling/AA. Basically the best AA without any artifacts by pure brute force. Think about the benefits the Touryst got rendering 8k on a 4k tv. It's literally the same thing the PS4 Pro was doing with 1080p tv's

Edit: Also they're not gimping on RT, that is going to be PS5 Pro focus. RDNA 4 and/or Cerny custom RT. 3090 raster. It will be better than 7900xtx at RT workloads because of the traversal hardware.

I know but it will eat up all the resources. We need a focus on improved RT. Pushing 8k for me is a nightmare scenario for me.

 

[SlimySnake]

 

[DuduIsDisappointed]

Ok. Let's come back when the game releases. 3 months will be here before you know it.

The next gameplay showcase (at Gamescom hopefully) there will be a short New cinematic setpiece during a rainny night (seamless cutscenes/gameplay transition) featuring Venom that will shut the doubters and trolls mouth.

 

[alloush]

The next gameplay showcase (at Gamescom hopefully) there will be a short New cinematic setpiece during a rainny night (seamless cutscenes/gameplay transition) featuring Venom that will shut the doubters and trolls mouth.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is very interesting analysis of Ratchet and Remnant 2 running on a 1.7 tflops steam deck.

Both require a lot of sacrifices to resolution in order to run on a 720p display (Ratchet FSR Performance at 720p, Remnant FSR Balanced at 560p), but ratchet scales very well even running at Medium settings. Meanwhile UE5's tech is too much for the steam deck GPU and it looks like complete trash compared to the next gen console versions.

Just another game where Insomniac for whatever reason didnt bother pushing the PS5 GPU despite being told to make a next gen only game. I just wish GG and SSM were the ones who were given a license to make next gen only games because insmoniac's graphics team are making games that can easily be ported to last gen hardware.



Remnant 2 doesnt even feature lumens and completely buckles under the pressure of running on last gen hardware. Ratchet's ssd usage is still its biggest next gen asset so at least insomniac is one of the few studios to do anything with the PS5 hardware.

Apparently star wars is getting backported to run on PS4. It will be interesting to see a 960p 30 fps game running on last gen hardware. Im guessing RT goes away and they gain a lot of performance back. Same goes for FF16 which also drops to 1080p at times. Would love to see it running on a steam deck.

 

[Turk1993]

The next gameplay showcase (at Gamescom hopefully) there will be a short New cinematic setpiece during a rainny night (seamless cutscenes/gameplay transition) featuring Venom that will shut the doubters and trolls mouth.

You mean this, Venom in a rainy night cut scene. It really shut us down because of how shit it looks.