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[SlimySnake]

ooof...and Slimy was complaining about the DD and the fog in Horizon

Nah, thats just from the Factory outpost that is polluting the world or something. The fog is added to show the world being polluted by human factories.

The gif is taken from that part of the video. Anyone who has seen the 6 minute Avatar video would know that.

The game's draw distance is actually one of the few next gen things about it. Both when you are on the ground or up in the sky islands. I am sure they will use fog to mask the draw distance but the distance has clearly been pushed beyond what we saw this gen.

 

[PeteBull]

Ok whatevr you say. The devs said they had other lighting engines before they started porting witcher 3 onto consoles which this one in the trailer would be the one they scrapped.in no way is this prerendered as it uses exactly the same animations from the game. It is running on a pc in engine. So no these are not bullshots as they were running in engine like cdred claimed. If they claimed it was running on consoles then yes that is bullshots

Running in engine was first halo infinite trailer, which we got nothing from at release, aka again huge downgrade, here comparision
And real thing not even at launch, but pc version(so in theory much more power avaiable) from may 2022 both videos from DF ofc, just so u got no excuse of claiming it was some random scrub analisng it

And again- that in engine halo infinite teaser trailer was from june 2018 so almost 4 years vs season 2 comparision (may 2022), back then strongest pc gpu avaiable was either relatively good priced gtx 1080ti or tiny bit stronger titan xp (1200$msrp) https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/titan-xp.c2948 both similar to rx 6650xt or rtx 4060(so u got comparision to modern gpu powerwise) so weaker from xbox series x gpu ;D

Unless ofc u mean titan V, 3000$ msrp https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/titan-v.c3051 from volta ;P

And again, in engine doesnt mean not bullshot, it could be running at 5fps or even at 1fps and then speed up, aka once again- bullshot, not comparable to real gameplay.

With all those trailers there are always few things in common- showed up long before game launch- superhigh quality vs what u get at launch, even above ingame cutscenes, and tons of "cinematic" cameras, pov that u will never get while actually playing the game/character urself, those are usually dead take aways(red flags) its a bullshot.

 

[SlimySnake]

I can live with PS4.5 graphics if they just make the worlds more alive. Doesn't matter what genre game.
Let grass sway like in Ghost of T. but make it better. Let trees sway like in that reveal trailer of Ghost. Make rain in games like MGS2 tanker level (still the best rain in a video game for me) but better. Leaves and anything made of cloth that react to wind. All that kind of stuff.
For example, the weather effect (rain and snow) in Diablo 4 are a joke, it's like a 2D video that's playing in front of your game. No depth at all.

Get rid of the static objects, the world isn't static.

Yeah, i think thats precisely what we're seeing in Star Wars Outlaws. I am really surprised to see them push wind physics as an actual feature.

It adds so much to the visuals and the world atmosphere.

P.S. I am still shocked by how underwhelming SM2 has been. as a hardcore PS fan I must say, Sony Studios better step up their games. their recent output has been extremely boring and lackluster.
also, I am neither as impressed nor as convinced as others seem to be by Avatar , Starwars, FF16 or any other game for that matter [including games such as Project M or Alan Wake]. People are getting used to mediocrity, I guess.
and they are subconsciously and ever so gently embracing the mediocrity and inconsistencies in these games. I think the paucity of quality games has triggered the coping mechanism in most of us

The last I was impressed was The Matrix Demo. [proponents, save your breath about it not being a game.]

I am a simple man. Give me some wind physics that we couldnt do on PS4 and Im happy. Might be low standards but if the visuals are held back because of some next gen feature be it wind physics, the massive setpieces of final fantasy and the giant levels of star wars. I believe i linked you an article on the systems Avatar devs were pushing for, or rather aiming to push for before they eventually downgrade them for the release. Im harsh on TLOU and Spiderman because i dont see those systems. I see nothing they didnt already do last gen in terms of systems which makes the lack of a graphics leap even more inexcusable.

no no no you said that the setpiece with the metal tentacles felt more nextgen than most stuff this year, no matter if you cut rtx and res, a real nextgen setpiece would not be possible on a ps4, full stop.


Thinking that precanned destruction and limited qte fest setpieces was somehow nextgen was always your big mistake.

Gow ragnarock didn't do that because it was probably the b team or the director is just like me and think that humanoid fights are more fun and challenging than big ass monsters with barely any gameplay, not because the game was crossgen.
We had the fucking kronos on ps3 dude or look at what bayo3 does on a damn switch.

And you can bet your ass that ff16 is gonna have lower requirements than a ps5.

I was looking at star wars jedi survivor steam deck footage and apparently it was unplayable until around patch 5. Even then you have to run it at the lowest settings using FSR performance at 800p (so 360p?) to get a decent framerate while walking around and it still tanks below to 20 fps once the combat starts.

The PS5 doesnt have the SSD or CPU of the steam deck and i doubt they will ship a 360p game on the PS4 so this will be very interesting to see.

 

[alloush]

P.S. I am still shocked by how underwhelming SM2 has been. as a hardcore PS fan I must say, Sony Studios better step up their games. their recent output has been extremely boring and lackluster.
also, I am neither as impressed nor as convinced as others seem to be by Avatar , Starwars, FF16 or any other game for that matter [including games such as Project M or Alan Wake]. People are getting used to mediocrity, I guess.
and they are subconsciously and ever so gently embracing the mediocrity and inconsistencies in these games. I think the paucity of quality games has triggered the coping mechanism in most of us

The last I was impressed was The Matrix Demo. [proponents, save your breath about it not being a game.]

Project M looked good man, I don’t agree with you on this one

 

[SlimySnake]

Running in engine was first halo infinite trailer, which we got nothing from at release, aka again huge downgrade, here comparision
And real thing not even at launch, but pc version(so in theory much more power avaiable) from may 2022 both videos from DF ofc, just so u got no excuse of claiming it was some random scrub analisng it

And again- that in engine halo infinite teaser trailer was from june 2018 so almost 4 years vs season 2 comparision (may 2022), back then strongest pc gpu avaiable was either relatively good priced gtx 1080ti or tiny bit stronger titan xp (1200$msrp) https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/titan-xp.c2948 both similar to rx 6650xt or rtx 4060(so u got comparision to modern gpu powerwise) so weaker from xbox series x gpu ;D

Unless ofc u mean titan V, 3000$ msrp https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/titan-v.c3051 from volta ;P

And again, in engine doesnt mean not bullshot, it could be running at 5fps or even at 1fps and then speed up, aka once again- bullshot, not comparable to real gameplay.

With all those trailers there are always few things in common- showed up long before game launch- superhigh quality vs what u get at launch, even above ingame cutscenes, and tons of "cinematic" cameras, pov that u will never get while actually playing the game/character urself, those are usually dead take aways(red flags) its a bullshot.

Right. Ingame or inengine is basically code for bullshit. Division also said the first Avatar reveal trailer was running in-game. Ok, then why the downgrade? Because it clearly wasnt running at a stable 30 fps 'in-game'.

Witcher 3 was probably something similar. They had it running in engine knowing full well it wouldnt run on consoles or 99.99% of PC GPUs.

 

[shamoomoo]

A this isn’t even true and B the very next line after what you highlighted and bolded was “save your breath about it not being a game”

Um? A demo is demo, I'm not saying anybody can't be impressed by it. But what is the point using a demonstration of technology that may not ever be achieved or come out as a game as being the basis to measure what will get on current gen consoles?

The Matrix demo, while being pretty enough wasn't showing humongous crowds , crazy physics or dynamic a city could.

 

[PeteBull]

Right. Ingame or inengine is basically code for bullshit. Division also said the first Avatar reveal trailer was running in-game. Ok, then why the downgrade? Because it clearly wasnt running at a stable 30 fps 'in-game'.

Witcher 3 was probably something similar. They had it running in engine knowing full well it wouldnt run on consoles or 99.99% of PC GPUs.

Thats why i really apreciated RDR2 pc release, its max settings could kill all gpu's at launch, hell even medium settings werent ez to run in 1080p60 for most of mainstream pc gpu's but they had them ingame, avaiable to scale later on and now game can be run at stable 4k60fps no probs maxed, and looks beautiful to this very day

 

[ChiefDada]

"Bull shot!"

"Bull shot!"

"Bull shot!"

"Ugly shot!"

Seriously, it took me a sec to realize that white smudge on the screen is a pathetic attempt at rendering volumetric clouds. Next gen looking? Nah.

 

[H . R . 2]

Project M looked good man, I don’t agree with you on this one

that's ok Alloush. I am glad you liked it
I rewatched it yesterday and I recall QB having better lighting, IQ, animations, physics and enemies. it's a good-looking "trailer" of which we have seen MANY, especially from Asian studios.
plus the game seems undecided on what it wants to be and that trailer provides zero information about the game, just a couple of buzzwords, some nice visuals, and no gameplay
I'll reserve my judgment until I see some proper gameplay

I am a simple man. Give me some wind physics that we couldnt do on PS4

oh that was already entirely possible on PS4. just a matter of priorities!
wind physics is rarely a gameplay feature and it doesn't have a direct impact on gameplay [unless designed as such],
therefore it is commonly used as an attractive gimmick and it is usually the first thing that gets cut [e.g. WD and Unity both Ubisoft games]
also if you think about it SW has no particularly unique or interesting feature or mechanic going for it
I am also a simple man, but after all the downgrades we have gone through, I figured we have learned to not give a game credit until it's proven itself, especially a Ubi or EA game.



to both you guys, I have to say
I'd rather base my opinions on released games/demos, rather than trailers.
which is why I have more respect for FF16 having proven itself, if not in all areas, but at least in terms of the goals it set out to achieve

 

[H . R . 2]

Nah, thats just from the Factory outpost that is polluting the world or something. The fog is added to show the world being polluted by human factories.

understood
but then again it doesn't seem at all interesting, it doesn't appear physics-based or volumetric
reminds me of PS2 games that would use 2d fog to hide their asset streaming

but I believe in Massive. they have always produced great visuals. their The Division [although heavily downgraded] and World in Conflict are still orgasmic to watch.
I just don't trust Ubisoft to give them the time and the creative freedom necessary to pull off those next-gen graphics

 

[SlimySnake]

understood
but then again it doesn't seem at all interesting, it doesn't seem physics-based or volumetric
reminds me of PS2 games that would use 2d fog to hide their asset streaming

but I believe in Massive. they have always produced great visuals. their Division [although heavily downgraded] and World in Conflict are still orgasmic to watch.
I just don't trust Ubisoft to give them the time and the creative freedom necessary to pull off those next-gen graphics

I think ubisoft needs to be applauded here because this game started development in 2017 and Ubisoft made it a next gen game from the start. Cant say that about Sony who had several sstudios start dev in 2017-2018 and made those games cross gen.

the also delayed the game by a year. it was a 2022 title when it was first revealed so they are trying to do it right by the dev team. That said, the december release will probably result in a buggy title shipped to take advantage of the holiday sales.

i think third parties have been mostly responsible for this extended cross gen period but EA did cancel the last gen versions of Dead Space and NFS Unbound while focusing all their efforts on a next gen version of star wars only porting to last gen consoles after launch. Hogwarts also delayed last gen versions by a few months which is rare to see. Square delayed the PC version of FF16 and cancelled the PS4 version for similar reasons. Even WB cancelled last gen versions of Gotham Knights and delayed Suicide Squad to fix the GaaS complaints. I think third parties in their own way have been trying to do the right thing. Its the first parties that have lost their way recently. I have been very disappointed by Sony and MS first party titles this gen. im honestly shocked by how mediocre both Spiderman and Forza 8 look despite being next gen only.

 

[SlimySnake]

that's ok Alloush. I am glad you liked it
I rewatched it yesterday and I recall QB having better lighting, IQ, animations, physics and enemies. it's a good-looking "trailer" of which we have seen MANY, especially from Asian studios.
plus the game seems undecided on what it wants to be and that trailer provides zero information about the game, just a couple of buzzwords, some nice visuals, and no gameplay
I'll reserve my judgment until I see some proper gameplay



oh that was already entirely possible on PS4. just a matter of priorities!
wind physics is rarely a gameplay feature and it doesn't have a direct impact on gameplay [unless designed as such],
therefore it is commonly used as an attractive gimmick and it is usually the first thing that gets cut [e.g. WD and Unity both Ubisoft games]
also if you think about it SW has no particularly unique or interesting feature or mechanic going for it
I am also a simple man, but after all the downgrades we have gone through, I figured we have learned to not give a game credit until it's proven itself, especially a Ubi or EA game.



to both you guys, I have to say
I'd rather base my opinions on released games/demos, rather than trailers.
which is why I have more respect for FF16 having proven itself, if not in all areas, but at least in terms of the goals it set out to achieve

Yeah, I am not buying anything that these asian non-japanese studios are selling. Black Myth Wukong was the first next gen game shown 3 years ago. Fucking not even close to getting a release. Fake. I am not sure what kind of grift these south korean studios are running but i wouldnt be surprised if they are being given govt aid or something and they just create fake stuff like Hasan's Abandoned. Not a single one of these games have been released. Out of like 10 games. Clearly a scam.

Wind Physics werent possible on the PS4 at this level of fidelity though. You should watch that Nick video showing the massive wind physics downgrade in GoT from the original reveal. They had it in the game and taken out likely because it wasnt possible. Massive said that they designed the entire planet to have wind physics that affect everything from vehicle handling to debris and trees, so i highly doubt they will downgrade the whole thing like they did with Watch Dogs and GoT.

 

[H . R . 2]

i think third parties have been mostly responsible for this extended cross gen period but EA did cancel the last gen versions of Dead Space and NFS Unbound while focusing all their efforts on a next gen version of star wars only porting to last gen consoles after launch. Hogwarts also delayed last gen versions by a few months which is rare to see. Square delayed the PC version of FF16 and cancelled the PS4 version for similar reasons. Even WB cancelled last gen versions of Gotham Knights and delayed Suicide Squad to fix the GaaS complaints. I think third parties in their own way have been trying to do the right thing. Its the first parties that have lost their way recently. I have been very disappointed by Sony and MS first party titles this gen. im honestly shocked by how mediocre both Spiderman and Forza 8 look despite being next gen only.

that's true
but cancelling or delaying last-gen versions has been done because those studios feared that they might have to suffer the same consequences as CD project did with the messy launch and the huge backlash of CP2077
it's not like these companies had intentions to make truly next-gen games[ those titles were cross-gen games that got bumped to next-gen]. studios were just being cautious not to fall into the trap the likes of CDRP fell into with their cross-gen titles

Wind Physics werent possible on the PS4 at this level of fidelity though. You should watch that Nick video showing the massive wind physics downgrade in GoT from the original reveal. They had it in the game and taken out likely because it wasnt possible.

true , but that proves my point about priorities too, fairly next-gen visuals with realistic wind effects or extreme next-gen visuals without them. SP clearly went for the latter.

Massive said that they designed the entire planet to have wind physics that affect everything from vehicle handling to debris and trees, so i highly doubt they will downgrade the whole thing like they did with Watch Dogs and GoT.

interesting, that must have slipped under my radar. I really hope they commit to it, it dramatically enhances the sense of immersion

 

[squidilix]

"Bull shot!"



"Bull shot!"



"Bull shot!"



"Ugly shot!"

Seriously, it took me a sec to realize that white smudge on the screen is a pathetic attempt at rendering volumetric clouds. Next gen looking? Nah.

People really forget Ubi Downgrades ?

 

[SlimySnake]

that's true
but cancelling or delaying last-gen versions has been done because those studios feared that they might have to suffer the same consequences as CD project did with the messy launch and the huge backlash of CP2077
it's not like these companies had intentions to make truly next-gen games[ those titles were cross-gen games that got bumped to next-gen]. studios were just being cautious not to fall into the trap the likes of CDRP fell into with their cross-gen titles

true , but that proves my point about priorities too, fairly next-gen visuals with realistic wind effects or extreme next-gen visuals without them. SP clearly went for the latter.

interesting, that must have slipped under my radar. I really hope they commit to it, it dramatically enhances the sense of immersion

Yeah, it's not something they did out of the kindness of their hearts lol but I will take what i can get at this point.

Timestamped devs talking about the wind elements. Seems specific to that planet.

 

[H . R . 2]

Yeah, it's not something they did out of the kindness of their hearts lol but I will take what i can get at this point.

Timestamped devs talking about the wind elements. Seems specific to that planet.

Yeah, i think thats precisely what we're seeing in Star Wars Outlaws. I am really surprised to see them push wind physics as an actual feature.

is this the same planet? Because something about this doesn't sit right with me . it is giving me in-engine vibes
especially the wind physics on those flags which seem slowed down for dramatic effect versus the characters' movements speed and their per-object motion blur, the seemingly fully-raytraced lighting on fog near the entrance
remove the dynamic elements and you've got yourself an extremely bland looking scene

 

[ChiefDada]

People really forget Ubi Downgrades ?

A few people in this thread certainly have judging by the way they're evangelizing Avatar. I really hope the game does turn out to be a visual showpiece but I'm not convinced yet based on what we've seen so far.

 

[H . R . 2]

People really forget Ubi Downgrades ?

the only game where the downgrade is, not entirely acceptable, but understandable is R6 Siege.
for example, the moving curtains on those windows or the sharp difference between the outdoor and indoor lighting would be an advantage to the other team, thus hurting the balance of the match.
they just should not have named it R6. it should and would have been a decent game on its own

 

[PeteBull]

is this the same planet? Because something about this doesn't sit right with me . it is giving me in-engine vibes
especially the wind physics on those flags which seem slowed down for dramatic effect versus the characters' movements speed and their per-object motion blur, the seemingly fully-raytraced lighting near on fog near the entrance
remove the dynamic elements and you've got yourself an extremely bland looking scene

Lets wait till launch/close to launch, game is still very far away, but yup, gotta stay realistic/pessimistic till we got launch version or at least launch trailer to compare it too, those companies know they cant put on bullshot trailer near/at launch so instead they do real life trailers or tv cinematics ads instead there, at least they dont pretend those are gameplays tho ;D

 

[SlimySnake]

remove the dynamic elements and you've got yourself an extremely bland looking scene

Exactly. Thats why i said the wind enhances the visuals and the atmosphere. too many games just feel sterile nowadays.

 

[H . R . 2]

A few people in this thread certainly have judging by the way they're evangelizing Avatar. I really hope the game does turn out to be a visual showpiece but I'm not convinced yet based on what we've seen so far.

Ubi's track record in listening to fans or actually delivering on what they showcase is utterly awful.
look at Mirage. people were expecting next-gen graphics and a return to the roots.
turns out the game doesn't look even half as good as [the mediocre-looking] Valhalla and features "magical powers and elements"
sometimes I wonder if they ever learn their lesson. I saw something similar in EA's recent comments about the future of BF and building a better "ecosystem"

 

[SlimySnake]

Lets wait till launch/close to launch, game is still very far away, but yup, gotta stay realistic/pessimistic till we got launch version or at least launch trailer to compare it too, those companies know they cant put on bullshot trailer near/at launch so instead they do real life trailers or tv cinematics ads instead there, at least they dont pretend those are gameplays tho ;D

Why are we assuming Spiderman 2 and Forza will not get downgraded and Avatar will?

All games were shown running on consoles. They are all releasing within months of each other. All already received their downgrades from their original trailer. Any downgrade in these games will only affect console versions. We are already seeing Forza ship with RTGI being exclusive to PC. So worst comes to worst, even if they remove RT features from the PS5, they will still be on PC. They wont be changing their entire renderer like CD Project did.

Star Wars outlaws will get its inevitable downgrade but it wont be a massive downgrade like Watch Dogs or Rainbow Six. It will be more like Avatar. I would be shocked if they completely remove the wind physics especially since the main graphics dont really look Matrix quality to begin with. It's a rather realistic looking next gen target that looks next gen thanks to its fidelity, level of detail and the final space sequence. If they were trying to fool us a la Anthem, they wouldve come up with way better graphics than that.

 

[Musilla]

Pure gameplay looks ¿ok?

 

[SlimySnake]

Ubi's track record in listening to fans or actually delivering on what they showcase is utterly awful.
look at Mirage. people were expecting next-gen graphics and a return to the roots.
turns out the game doesn't look even half as good as [the mediocre-looking] Valhalla and features "magical powers and elements"
sometimes I wonder if they ever learn their lesson. I saw something similar in EA's recent comments about the future of BF and building a better "ecosystem"

Mirage started out as DLC for Valhalla and was turned into a full fledged game. I think its probably made by the B team or something.

Next year's game will be the first true next gen AC. Im hoping for an AC Unity caliber leap in fidelity. Thats one game that ubisoft doesnt get credit for shipping without major downgrades. Still looks better than most games including Mirage which seems to have a higher draw distance but worse GI bounce.

 

[SlimySnake]

Pure gameplay looks ¿ok?

"Bull shot."

 

[rofif]

Why are we discussing game trailers for star wars and avatar?
gtfo with this fake shit. Waste of breath before it gets released.

 

[H . R . 2]

Mirage started out as DLC for Valhalla and was turned into a full fledged game. I think its probably made by the B team or something

yes I am aware of that. but it didn't have to look worse than Valhalla
it's been downhill since Unity, the amount of downgrade with each iteration has been so significant that, at best, the graphics can only get upgraded back to Unity-level visuals.
unless they move to an entirely new engine
about time if you ask me

 

[SlimySnake]

Why are we discussing game trailers for star wars and avatar?
gtfo with this fake shit. Waste of breath before it gets released.

We discuss game trailers all the time especially when there are so few next gen games being released. We litearlly just have starfield, avatar, hellblade, and star wars on the horizon. Might as well close the thread until these games come out.

 

[rofif]

We discuss game trailers all the time especially when there are so few next gen games being released. We litearlly just have starfield, avatar, hellblade, and star wars on the horizon. Might as well close the thread until these games come out.

yeah maybe so... it's interesting maybe to discuss previews vs real thing

 

[ChiefDada]

Pure gameplay looks ¿ok?

Just going off this gif, looks like a decent looking ps4 game.

 

[PeteBull]

Why are we assuming Spiderman 2 and Forza will not get downgraded and Avatar will?

Spiderman 2 already got downgraded vs 1st trailer, and hard, and its coming out in 3 months, we saw gameplay trailer/story trailer that wasnt that much better from ps5 version of spiderman1/miles morales .

About avatar, i think it wont be downgraded if u compare gameplay scenes from recent trailer to retail game, when it looks like bland farcry game in avatar setting, but some takes from first trailer/cinematics/in engine footage looks so much better, hence im suspicious about it.
Tldr this looks sus af for bullshot trailer, released june 2021 so 2,5years before launch of the game




This on the other hand, the first person view footage aka gameplay footage, looks much worse and probable, and i think we wont get downgrade from that

 

[H . R . 2]

discussing these trailers is interesting and fun. it gives us insights into engines and game development
but trusting them ...? they're just marketing materials, especially what the likes of EA and Ubi show

for example, if we hadn't discussed Forespoken reveal trailer, we probably wouldn't have had an opinion about its [heavily downgraded] visuals

 

[SlimySnake]

yes I am aware of that. but it didn't have to look worse than Valhalla
it's been downhill since Unity, the amount of downgrade with each iteration has been so significant that, at best, the graphics can only get upgraded back to Unity-level visuals.
unless they move to an entirely new engine
about time if you ask me

I think thats an unfair assessment. Yes, there have been downgrades but there have been upgrades as well. I played origins after Horizon Zero Dawn thinking I will never be impressed by another open world again, but AC Origins proved me wrong. The game had some of the best uses of photogammtery ive seen last gen. Cities like Alexandria and Cyprus had fantastic greek and roman architecture. The game had an insane draw distance and some gorgeous day time lighting. Interiors weren't on par with AC Unity and character rendering was also downgraded but it does a lot of things better than AC Unity.

Odyssey was made by the B team that made Syndicate so im not surprised it didnt look special. Still, they are the only devs to do massive realtime battles with hundreds of people on screen.

Valhalla looks insane at times. The problem is only at times. Its city and villages look really bad, but again, i dont think it gets credit for its open world visuals. I've seen some insane screenshots posted for it back at launch. For some reason, despite shipping great looking titles all gen, ubisoft games are overlooked when others arent. People who play these ubisoft games shouldnt be too surprised at Avatar and Star Wars looking the way they do for next gen only games. Last gen AC and Division games can indeed look stunning. I think Far Cry is the only studio they have that phones in visuals. Even Mario vs Rabbids looked stunning on the switch and was the best looking game on that console until Luigi's Mansion and Zelda Links Awakening launched.

Draw distance seems to have come at the cost of that incredible GI bounce lighting in AC Unity, but these games still look exceptional.

If you haven't id highly suggest picking up AC Origins and just checking out Alexandria. The architecture is magnificent and it overlooks the pyrmaids. Cyrpus is late game but Alexandria is early on in the game and must be experienced. Incredible visual fidelity.

 

[H . R . 2]

If you haven't id highly suggest picking up AC Origins

I did actually. The pseudo-rpg elements and level gating were so off-putting and unnecessary that I stopped playing it after a few missions
during my time with it, I was not impressed by either its visuals or animations quality [especially parkour] but I am aware of its visual strengths

 

[SlimySnake]

Spiderman 2 already got downgraded vs 1st trailer, and hard, and its coming out in 3 months, we saw gameplay trailer/story trailer that wasnt that much better from ps5 version of spiderman1/miles morales .

About avatar, i think it wont be downgraded if u compare gameplay scenes from recent trailer to retail game, when it looks like bland farcry game in avatar setting, but some takes from first trailer/cinematics/in engine footage looks so much better, hence im suspicious about it.
Tldr this looks sus af for bullshot trailer, released june 2021 so 2,5years before launch of the game




This on the other hand, the first person view footage aka gameplay footage, looks much worse and probable, and i think we wont get downgrade from that

yep. Whatever downgrade was going to happen already happened. I mean they didnt have to reveal the gameplay footage using a PS5 with FSR artifacts and other RT cutbacks if they were planning on downgrading it further. That shows a level of confidence you only see from first party studios.

Star Wars has yet to get its downgrade so its due for one. They showed it running with wide screen black bars so even whatever fancy 4090 GPU they were running this on couldnt run it at a locked 30 fps without reducing the pixel budget by adding black bars.

But games like Mirage, Avatar, Spiderman, Starfield (which btw also got a downgrade from last year) and forza (another downgrade victim) should look more or less like their E3 footage.

I would be very surprised if Avatar ends up adding fog to mask the draw distance like that one gif or completely guts its foliage system this close to launch.

Here is a really good downgrade comparison.Inengine bullshot trailer from 2021 vs Ingame cutscene from 2023. still looks amazing after the downgrade.

 

[H . R . 2]

I was thinking about these two bodycam style games today
If they actually get released, they can be great U5 showcases.

 

[alloush]

Um? A demo is demo, I'm not saying anybody can't be impressed by it. But what is the point using a demonstration of technology that may not ever be achieved or come out as a game as being the basis to measure what will get on current gen consoles?

The Matrix demo, while being pretty enough wasn't showing humongous crowds , crazy physics or dynamic a city could.

The Matrix demo had the most dense traffic I have ever seen. The highest number of cars and pedestrians (NPCs). Traffic in real time, superb car crash physics among tons of other technical marvels. No idea how you think the demo didn’t showcase any humongous crowds or crazy physics or dynamic traffic when that’s all true.

that's ok Alloush. I am glad you liked it
I rewatched it yesterday and I recall QB having better lighting, IQ, animations, physics and enemies. it's a good-looking "trailer" of which we have seen MANY, especially from Asian studios.
plus the game seems undecided on what it wants to be and that trailer provides zero information about the game, just a couple of buzzwords, some nice visuals, and no gameplay
I'll reserve my judgment until I see some proper gameplay



oh that was already entirely possible on PS4. just a matter of priorities!
wind physics is rarely a gameplay feature and it doesn't have a direct impact on gameplay [unless designed as such],
therefore it is commonly used as an attractive gimmick and it is usually the first thing that gets cut [e.g. WD and Unity both Ubisoft games]
also if you think about it SW has no particularly unique or interesting feature or mechanic going for it
I am also a simple man, but after all the downgrades we have gone through, I figured we have learned to not give a game credit until it's proven itself, especially a Ubi or EA game.



to both you guys, I have to say
I'd rather base my opinions on released games/demos, rather than trailers.
which is why I have more respect for FF16 having proven itself, if not in all areas, but at least in terms of the goals it set out to achieve

I agree, we haven’t seen enough and most of these Asian showcases don’t see the light of day. Weird stuff honestly.

Yeah, I am not buying anything that these asian non-japanese studios are selling. Black Myth Wukong was the first next gen game shown 3 years ago. Fucking not even close to getting a release. Fake. I am not sure what kind of grift these south korean studios are running but i wouldnt be surprised if they are being given govt aid or something and they just create fake stuff like Hasan's Abandoned. Not a single one of these games have been released. Out of like 10 games. Clearly a scam.

Wind Physics werent possible on the PS4 at this level of fidelity though. You should watch that Nick video showing the massive wind physics downgrade in GoT from the original reveal. They had it in the game and taken out likely because it wasnt possible. Massive said that they designed the entire planet to have wind physics that affect everything from vehicle handling to debris and trees, so i highly doubt they will downgrade the whole thing like they did with Watch Dogs and GoT.

What’s weird is that game was presented in an official showcase cannot recall if it was Sony’s. So if it were one of those infamous Asian showcases that never see the light of day, how come they have included it in an official showcase? Man I don’t understand the industry anymore.

 

[H . R . 2]

What’s weird is that game was presented in an official showcase cannot recall if it was Sony’s. So if it were one of those infamous Asian showcases that never see the light of day, how come they have included it in an official showcase? Man I don’t understand the industry anymore.

Remember Abandoned?
That game and the controversy around it has given me trust issues and PTSD
But it was shown along with some other Sony first-party games too

 

[Grildon Tundy]

People really forget Ubi Downgrades ?

This should be the first post on every new page of this thread

 

[Grildon Tundy]

To my eyes, this looks like Skyrim, but, like, next-next-gen. I wonder if games (not tech demos) will ever get to this level.

 

[SlimySnake]

Here is the dev diary from Massive in regards to improvements made to the Snowdrop Engine. This was released two years ago alongside the Avatar reveal trailer. They talk about updating the snowdrop engine to support ray traced GI and reflections. They talk about some kind of micro detail system that allows them to propagate thousands of assets in one frame. (their nanite equivalent?) They talk about interactive plants and foliage. Every single thing they talked about in this dev diary was proven to be present in the PS5 footage shown this E3. Foliage is still dense, DF confirmed that RTGI and Reflections are in, and plants react to you touching them.



It makes no sense to promise all that two years ago, then put it all in the PS5 version only to take it all out six months later.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

A few people in this thread certainly have judging by the way they're evangelizing Avatar. I really hope the game does turn out to be a visual showpiece but I'm not convinced yet based on what we've seen so far.

For real. We should always reserve judgement on every game we're not certain about. We've been burned far too often to trust these companies. Something like Demons Souls, Ratchet, and Ragnarok we knew what to expect. Usually when our guts are having us questioning a certain game, it turns out badly.

I've got that feeling with Avatar and Star Wars not just because "its Ubisoft", though theres merit to that, but more because theres already questionable things going on with these games. For example Avatar has already received a downgrade and the devs are not being forthcoming with exactly what to expect for the console versions. Yeah, supposedly the last gameplay was running on PS5 but at what resolution and framerate? Did it still have RT Gi?

Look at Forza Motorsport and the way those devs be actin. First the game looked fantastic then big dowmgrade and they havn't clarified whether it still has RT during gameplay. Red flags.

There's no reason to blindly trust any dev anymore until a game is out!

 

[alloush]

Remember Abandoned?
That game and the controversy around it has given me trust issues and PTSD
But it was shown along with some other Sony first-party games too

I totally forgot about that game, lol. The videogame industry is an odd duck!

 

[SlimySnake]

I've got that feeling with Avatar and Star Wars not just because "its Ubisoft", though theres merit to that, but more because theres already questionable things going on with these games. For example Avatar has already received a downgrade and the devs are not being forthcoming with exactly what to expect for the console versions. Yeah, supposedly the last gameplay was running on PS5 but at what resolution and framerate? Did it still have RT Gi?

It was running at 1440p internal resolution being upscaled using FSR2 according to DF. The tech director at Massive was pretty open about it using upscaling and asked DF to see if they can figure it out.



He replied to DF's analysis and said that RTGI and Reflections are always on.



He was also very open about using fallbacks when Alex started bitching about a missing reflection under the belly of an alien deer....



I dont know. These guys have been very open about their tech since the reveal far more than other devs. I know they have a bad history with downgrades in Division, but that was literally 10 years ago. 10 years ago, we wouldnt think insomniac, ND and GG would be the ones leading the downgrade train. I was pretty surprised to see them showing this game running on a PS5. That almost never happens with multiplatform games that arent exclusive. Even Starfield wasnt shown running on an XSX but on a PC with XSX equivalent specs.

 

[alloush]

 

[alloush]

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Man this threads been dead last couole days

 

[Turk1993]

Man this threads been dead last couole days

 

[ChiefDada]

Man this threads been dead last couole days

Be careful what you wish for.....


Refreshing to see someone who actually understands game development:

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

whats with these grainy artifacts all over the image constantly? Some form of image reconstruction? Looks very bad because of it imo.

Youtube compression video artifacting. When you get micro details and tons of particles moving at speed YT videos even at 4k don't have enough video bitrate information to keep up basically. It's going to be an issue with a lot of UE5 games that especially use fine grain details and elaborate particle systems. It won't effect certain games due to art direction or just not using so many particles.

It could also be that Xbox just uploaded a really shitty quality video lol.