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[SlimySnake]

Its not a good idea sacrifing perfomance, i heard people talking how games on PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo 64 has poor frame rates.

This was in 2006:

How come N64 games generally had poor framerates?

was it due to the microcode stupidity of Nintendo, the hardware itself, or something else?

forum.beyond3d.com

About PS3:

Were PS3 games always so slow and jaggy?

Were PS3 games always so slow and jaggy, or am I just spoiled by remasters? Going back to the PS3 for the first time properly since early 2014, goddamn a lot of these games are slow (poor frame rates) jaggy, and look awful. To name the ones I've been back to Infamous (Goddamn I remembered this...

www.resetera.com

As PS3 had an overly complex CPU, GPU bottlenecking the Cell CPU, that how games ran like crap.
Poor frame rates happen due for bottlenecks like high latency of RAM on Nintendo 64.

People always bitch and moan about this stuff but in the end these games end up winning game of the year awards and end up selling millions.

Just this year totk sold ten million in a week despite dropping to 20 fps every time I pulled out ultra hand. Nintendo knew this and decided the physics were worth the sacrifice in framerate.

Mgs2 was 60 fps but mgs3 with its 30 fps and sub 30 fps framerate is far more revered. Kojima didn’t hold back his vision of much more open jungle area just for the sake of 60 fps he was able to do in a corridor style game.

Ueda knew the final collosus was running at 15 fps. Didn’t give two shits and it’s considered one of the best games of all time.

Totk will lose goty to bg3 which struggles to run at 30 fps on modern pc cpus in its last act. No one will care at the end of the year when it wins more gotys than Spider-Man 2 and its safe unambitious 60 fps gameplay.

 

[Represent.]

Crysis? It ran like shit in the highest end PC in 2007

Because it was PUSHING hardware. That’s the whole point.

The game was from the future.

A game BUILT for next gen hardware and not giving a shit about anything else.

THAT is taking advantage of extra horsepower.

Cyberpunk is not doing that. Nothing has since either. Crysis was an anomaly.

Crysis what? This game crashes most GPU's lol.

That’s the point. The game didn’t give a shit about who could or couldn’t run it. It was build for next level gpus in the future. It wasn’t a console game with a PC version. That’s why it looked WAY better than anything for that entire generation. Nothing came close until PS4.

 

[Schmendrick]

Watch out the pc nerds will come for your head cuz their 3 thousand dollar PCs need a microscope for them to see the minimal gains they have on them $500 consoles.

Downplaying real time path tracing... And I thought chief was the nutcase here....

 

[Turk1993]

Because it was PUSHING hardware.
A game BUILT for next gen hardware and not giving a shit about anything else.
THAT is taking advantage of extra horsepower.
Cyberpunk is not doing that.
That’s the point. The game didn’t give a shit about who could or couldn’t run it. It was build for next level gpus in the future. It wasn’t a console game with a PC version.

Bruh you are literally describing CP2077 lol. We are not even sure if PS6 can run this game at decent res and fps. Only certain cards can run it at a acceptable fps and res and you act like its not pushing tech. Path Tracing is next gen, its 10th gen tech and waaaaay out of the leagues of current gen consoles. You can find maybe games that do 1 or 2 things better but none of them comes close to what CP2077 doing technically.

Downplaying real time path tracing... And I thought chief was the nutcase here....

Weird right, he complains that devs don't push tech but when CP2077 uses next next gen tech he still complains and downplays it lol.

 

[alloush]

Downplaying real time path tracing... And I thought chief was the nutcase here....

You can throw all them jizz words around I trust my eyes at the end. Convincing yourself that games on pc look MILES better than they do on consoles is North Korea delusional.

 

[alloush]

Bruh you are literally describing CP2077 lol. We are not even sure if PS6 can run this game at decent res and fps. Only certain cards can run it at a acceptable fps and res and you act like its not pushing tech. Path Tracing is next gen, its 10th gen tech and waaaaay out of the leagues of current gen consoles. You can find maybe games that do 1 or 2 things better but none of them comes close to what CP2077 doing technically.


Weird right, he complains that devs don't push tech but when CP2077 uses next next gen tech he still complains and downplays it lol.

Lol citing that shit ass looking game as next gen is hilarious. Calm them tits, you deserve what ya get from devs!

 

[Schmendrick]

You can throw all them jizz words around I trust my eyes at the end. Convincing yourself that games on pc look MILES better than they do on consoles is North Korea delusional.

Well, there it is the most stupid thing I've read on the internet today.
Time to call it a day. Goodnight.

 

[alloush]

Well, there it is the most stupid thing I've read on the internet today.
Time to call it a day. Goodnight.

I wasn’t wrong, them pc nerds did jump on my head for calling them out. Lower them pants, son!

 

[Lokaum D+]

Lol citing that shit ass looking game as next gen is hilarious. Calm them tits, you deserve what ya get from devs!

do u mind to share what would be a good looking next gen game ?

Because it was PUSHING hardware. That’s the whole point.
The game was from the future.
A game BUILT for next gen hardware and not giving a shit about anything else.
THAT is taking advantage of extra horsepower.
Cyberpunk is not doing that. Nothing has since either. Crysis was an anomaly.

note that this is at 1080p, at native 4k you would get 10-15fps with a RTX 4090 playing with PT.

 

[Turk1993]

Lol citing that shit ass looking game as next gen is hilarious. Calm them tits, you deserve what ya get from devs!

 

[alloush]

Cmon guys, cyberpunk is a 3 year old game with some next gen features. The game looked ugly from the get go, the new features aint magically gonna make it look great, it’s like polishing a turd.

 

[alloush]

A+ for the effort.

 

[Turk1993]

Cmon guys, cyberpunk is a 3 year old game with some next gen features. The game looked ugly from the get go, the new features aint magically gonna make it look great, it’s like polishing a turd.

So every game released till now is unpolished turd then right.

 

[alloush]

So every game released till now is unpolished turd then right.

100%, that’s our main beef with the devs and their games actually, Turk. CP looks good don’t get me wrong but it aint the graphical marvel a lotta people are making it out to be.

 

[charles8771]

People always bitch and moan about this stuff but in the end these games end up winning game of the year awards and end up selling millions.

Just this year totk sold ten million in a week despite dropping to 20 fps every time I pulled out ultra hand. Nintendo knew this and decided the physics were worth the sacrifice in framerate.

Mgs2 was 60 fps but mgs3 with its 30 fps and sub 30 fps framerate is far more revered. Kojima didn’t hold back his vision of much more open jungle area just for the sake of 60 fps he was able to do in a corridor style game.

Ueda knew the final collosus was running at 15 fps. Didn’t give two shits and it’s considered one of the best games of all time.

Totk will lose goty to bg3 which struggles to run at 30 fps on modern pc cpus in its last act. No one will care at the end of the year when it wins more gotys than Spider-Man 2 and its safe unambitious 60 fps gameplay.

Well never mind, whatever is 60fps, 30fps or 20fps, i won't hurt the sales

I heard in 2009 how Insomanic dicthed 60fps:

Insomniac: 60FPS no more

Insomniac Games is "probably" going to turn its back on its long-standing commitment to 60FPS gameplay for its Ratchet …

www.eurogamer.net

Tools of Destruction has 60fps target with resolution of 960x702p

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Bruh you are literally describing CP2077 lol. We are not even sure if PS6 can run this game at decent res and fps. Only certain cards can run it at a acceptable fps and res and you act like its not pushing tech. Path Tracing is next gen, its 10th gen tech and waaaaay out of the leagues of current gen consoles. You can find maybe games that do 1 or 2 things better but none of them comes close to what CP2077 doing technically.


Weird right, he complains that devs don't push tech but when CP2077 uses next next gen tech he still complains and downplays it lol.

For real .. wtf is going on in this thread today? I've seen some strange takes from some highly respected people

 

[ChiefDada]

Cyberpunk's achilles heel is it's sub par materials/texture properties and geometry (to a much lesser extent). Otherwise it would be the holy grail of current gen graphics that some mistakenly believe it to be at present. No doubt about it though, the lighting is superb.

Lol citing that shit ass looking game as next gen is hilarious. Calm them tits, you deserve what ya get from devs!

Lol, no way. What qualities do you look for in a game that would make it "next-gen" in your opinion?

Downplaying real time path tracing... And I thought chief was the nutcase here....

 

[Lethal01]

So every game released till now is unpolished turd then right.

IN reality even an unpolished turd is lit correctly
games' can't do even that.

 

[Alex11]

Cyberpunk's achilles heel is it's sub par materials/texture properties and geometry (to a much lesser extent). Otherwise it would be the holy grail of current gen graphics that some mistakenly believe it to be at present. No doubt about it though, the lighting is superb.

Nice to see some appreciation to CP, and you are right, it has flaws, what I think is weak also, are the effects, smoke, fire, also the sky and clouds are a bit meh.

 

[setoman]

No wonder insomniac is so efficient, they dont do half the things expected from other devs.

Its shocking to me that SM2 isn't being called out for being the exact same game as SM1 & Miles.
I loved playing SM1 and Miles, replayed it often. But I don't want to play to same game again.
It even has the exact same scripted chase scenes.

Timestamp 2:55


Its astonishing. It will even have the same scripted to the T side missions. People wonder how Insomniac is able to release so many games in a short amount of time. its simple. ITS THE SAME GAME.

It will still come with the same 100% scripted side mission where you go on a police chase that is 10000% scripted and completely on rails. Where you jump on the roof of the car, one guy shoots at you, you web him then the driver shoots at you, you web him and then you jump back, web the car and chase over.

Same thing over and over and over again. There's virtually NO AI in this game. Absolutely none. The closet thing to AI is the system that picks how many enemy can attack you at once and when they can attack you and with what intensity.

If any other open world game pulled something like this, they would be crucified.

At the very least put AI in the game. The side mission police chase should be an actual chase between police AI and NPC AI in which you show up to save civilians from being killed and stop the NPC AI. No two police chase would be alike. But no, 1000% scripted. Even the chases in main missions are 100% scripted. The entire city and its NPC are literally just wall-paper. Quite the contrast from every other open world game (GTA, watchdogs, etc)

I and others expected something like this:

To what exactly? Photo real? Having the ability to enter every building? Spider-Man already has a certain feel to its environment and morphing it into something it wasn't trying to be in the name of "next gen" is ridiculous. What are you looking for in Spider-Man 2 for it to be considered next gen?

Also, Cyberpunk already had ray tracing in the base game, path tracing, while a tech demo is an evolution of what was there.

Do 5% of what other open world games do. Maybe people can overlook the fact the graphics just looks incrementally better.

 

[Buggy Loop]

The game looked ugly from the get go,

Might have looked ugly on consoles, but it always looked nice on PC. Find me a better looking city open world.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well never mind, whatever is 60fps, 30fps or 20fps, i won't hurt the sales

I heard in 2009 how Insomanic dicthed 60fps:

Insomniac: 60FPS no more

Insomniac Games is "probably" going to turn its back on its long-standing commitment to 60FPS gameplay for its Ratchet …

www.eurogamer.net

Tools of Destruction has 60fps target with resolution of 960x702p

well, there it is. Insomniac explains exactly why they left 30 fps behind. no gotys.

To back up his arguments, Acton has produced interesting data based on a large number of game reviews, which indicates that while there is a clear link between graphics and final score, there is little to no evidence that frame-rate has as much influence. He also polled readers of the Insomniac website, and found that while 16 per cent of respondents were firmly in favour of 60FPS, most are not, with the majority favouring a solid frame-rate that doesn't interfere with the gameplay.

i guess 13 years later maybe they have come to accept that they will never win goty awards and have gone back to 60 fps. oh well.

 

[SlimySnake]

For real .. wtf is going on in this thread today? I've seen some strange takes from some highly respected people

Alloush is having a slimysnake moment.

And I love it.

Watch this gamespot review featuring footage from overdrive mode sent directly to them by cd project themselves. And tell me if this is the greatest looking game you've seen or not. It looked surprisingly mediocre to me. But then again, it is literally DLC of a 2020 game that I thought wasnt as good looking as TLOU2 on the whole and i played it in 2020 in rt mode.



I am Team Alloush. It takes balls to criticize a path tracing game that will likely win best graphics from everyone and their mothers. I love this YOLO energy. Even respect it.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Alloush is having a slimysnake moment.

And I love it.

Watch this gamespot review featuring footage from overdrive mode sent directly to them by cd project themselves. And tell me if this is the greatest looking game you've seen or not. It looked surprisingly mediocre to me. But then again, it is literally DLC of a 2020 game that I thought wasnt as good looking as TLOU2 on the whole and i played it in 2020 in rt mode.



I am Team Alloush. It takes balls to criticize a path tracing game that will likely win best graphics from everyone and their mothers. I love this YOLO energy. Even respect it.

Are we seeing the same video and scenes?



Almost all frames scream best graphics 2023 by a margin.

I bet by DF's video drop on this a couple of peoples will change their minds, cept for a few crazies who would still vote BOTW as the best looking game of 2023 and the likes.

 

[SlimySnake]

Are we seeing the same video and scenes?



Almost all frames scream best graphics 2023 by a margin.

I bet by DF's video drop on this a couple of peoples will change their minds, cept for a few crazies who would still vote BOTW as the best looking game of 2023 and the likes.

I saw that video this morning but thats like 2 minutes of cherry picked comparisons of like 10 scenes. gamespot review footage has 10 minutes of uncut footage of A LOT of different scenes.

There was a hilarious comment on a ps5 vs pc comparison that said something along the lines of how they both practically look the same but that DF will make the difference out to be like an iceberg. DF is going to cherry pick comparisons but we can all see from the gamespot extended footage that it has the same problems as the original game.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's good discussion until we just go into the realm of denial of how good CP2077 looks.

I see it everytime I play it and it's one of the only games I have steadily admired almost everything I see as I'm playing it. I have the HW to push this to the max and enjoy a 100fps+ experience with PT@4kDLSS quality settings.

As someone who's admired polygon/3D visuals since the early 90's, this is a showstopper since the PT update.

 

[SolidQ]

ps5 vs pc comparison that said something along the lines of how they both practically look the same

When i saw it, and without side by side comparision would be hard notice difference in real time

gamespot review featuring footage

8.31 looks pretty mediocre like PS3

DF will make the difference out to be like an iceberg

DF first need change games for benchmarks. All their games are old. Where latest half year games? oh wait NV there not strong...

 

[Zuzu]

I hope Crytek push the limits of graphics and physics with Crysis 4. The physics in Crysis 1 made the game so fun and immersive. I hope they go back to their roots and do something like they did with Crysis 1.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's good discussion until we just go into the realm of denial of how good CP2077 looks.

I see it everytime I play it and it's one of the only games I have steadily admired almost everything I see as I'm playing it. I have the HW to push this to the max and enjoy a 100fps+ experience with PT@4kDLSS quality settings.

As someone who's admired polygon/3D visuals since the early 90's, this is a showstopper since the PT update.

It looks good. really good. But i am just not buying this whole PT generational leap.

Back when this thing came out on PC, i ran this on my pc and did some comparisons. I am not saying there isnt a difference, but its so minimal most of the time, its hard to notice it let alone praise it.

The biggest difference between RT on and RT off i saw was in this scene and only on the car, and even then the difference between Psycho RT and Path Tracing wasnt really that large. And definitely not worth the 4-5x performance loss. Id recommend RT reflections and maybe RT shadows and leave RTGI to low or medium, and disable path tracing altogether. enjoy better performance AND better image quality. I would rather run the game at 4k 60 fps dlss quality rather than 1440p 30 fps dlss balanced. The muddiness and low fluctuating framerate is just not worth more 'accurate' visuals.

 

[ZehDon]

Cmon guys, cyberpunk is a 3 year old game with some next gen features. The game looked ugly from the get go, the new features aint magically gonna make it look great, it’s like polishing a turd.

This is easily the dumbest post in the last two weeks. And given that, you know, *gestures to everything* that's really impressive.

 

[Represent.]

Bruh you are literally describing CP2077 lol. We are not even sure if PS6 can run this game at decent res and fps. Only certain cards can run it at a acceptable fps and res and you act like its not pushing tech. Path Tracing is next gen, its 10th gen tech and waaaaay out of the leagues of current gen consoles. You can find maybe games that do 1 or 2 things better but none of them comes close to what CP2077 doing technically.


Weird right, he complains that devs don't push tech but when CP2077 uses next next gen tech he still complains and downplays it lol.

Its impossible to take full advantage of PC horsepower when you have a console version of said game.

Crysis didnt have consoles to worry about until years after it launched.

The game was untouchable for 6 years. It still hung with the best looking games nearly a decade after it launched.

Cyberpunk will not do the same. It will be topped next year, the year after that, and the year after that too.

Cyberpunk is a game designed to run on the PS4.

No matter all the fancy new tech, its not taking full advantage of PC tech. If this game was PC exclusive, you know for a fact it would look 10x better.

 

[Represent.]

I hope Crytek push the limits of graphics and physics with Crysis 4. The physics in Crysis 1 made the game so fun and immersive. I hope they go back to their roots and do something like they did with Crysis 1.

I hope their next game is PC exclusive (with PS6 ports down the road), only way this will happen. But it will probably just be a really good looking game, like cyberpunk.

 

[Zuzu]

It would also be interesting to see what could be done on a PS5 if a developer decided to limit a game’s resolution to 720p or 900p and 30fps and then pushed every other rendering capability to the max on the PS5. I’d like to see just what could be achieved if gpu resources weren’t spent on higher frame rates and resolutions.

 

[Represent.]

It would also be interesting to see what could be done on a PS5 if a developer decided to limit a game’s resolution to 720p or 900p and 30fps and then pushed every other rendering capability to the max on the PS5. I’d like to see just what could be achieved if gpu resources weren’t spent on higher frame rates and resolutions.

I'd play it at 20fps, I dont give a shit

 

[Pharaoh 117]

It would also be interesting to see what could be done on a PS5 if a developer decided to limit a game’s resolution to 720p or 900p and 30fps and then pushed every other rendering capability to the max on the PS5. I’d like to see just what could be achieved if gpu resources weren’t spent on higher frame rates and resolutions.

I believe we will only see this happening at the end of the gen or cross-gen period when they'll have better hardware available so they won't mind "sacrificing" the base PS5 version.

 

[E-Cat]

Cyberpunk has an ugly piss filter that no matter how good the lighting, makes it intrinsically less appealing to me than, say, Rockstar games.

 

[RavionUHD]

Starfield still amazes me with the amount of detail it has on PC.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I saw that video this morning but thats like 2 minutes of cherry picked comparisons of like 10 scenes. gamespot review footage has 10 minutes of uncut footage of A LOT of different scenes.

There was a hilarious comment on a ps5 vs pc comparison that said something along the lines of how they both practically look the same but that DF will make the difference out to be like an iceberg. DF is going to cherry pick comparisons but we can all see from the gamespot extended footage that it has the same problems as the original game.

That’s some massive shade thrown at DF from someone who participated so much in this thread, disappointing.

If some media outlets with their compressed media kits received from publisher for review day also compress again on YouTube and can’t see the path tracing advantages, not really worth my time to address.

Maybe, maybe on PS6 you’ll get to see it, maybe.. wouldn’t count too much on AMD to catch up by that time

 

[Lethal01]

Game is looking rough visually...
But they did say that this is a months old demo and the game has months until release so I'm very hopeful that it gets good enough to satisfy me.

 

[ChiefDada]

Maybe, maybe on PS6 you’ll get to see it, maybe.. wouldn’t count too much on AMD to catch up by that time

Lol, you're questioning whether a console releasing in 2028 will have the capabilities of a top end PC card released in 2022? We get it, you're all about that PCMR but we're trying to have an interesting discussion based in truth and reality.

 

[Lethal01]

 

[Robbinhood]

Tiny gif doesn't do it justice.

The leap is there and its spectacular.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Its shocking to me that SM2 isn't being called out for being the exact same game as SM1 & Miles.
I loved playing SM1 and Miles, replayed it often. But I don't want to play to same game again.
It even has the exact same scripted chase scenes.

Timestamp 2:55


Its astonishing. It will even have the same scripted to the T side missions. People wonder how Insomniac is able to release so many games in a short amount of time. its simple. ITS THE SAME GAME.

It will still come with the same 100% scripted side mission where you go on a police chase that is 10000% scripted and completely on rails. Where you jump on the roof of the car, one guy shoots at you, you web him then the driver shoots at you, you web him and then you jump back, web the car and chase over.

Same thing over and over and over again. There's virtually NO AI in this game. Absolutely none. The closet thing to AI is the system that picks how many enemy can attack you at once and when they can attack you and with what intensity.

If any other open world game pulled something like this, they would be crucified.

At the very least put AI in the game. The side mission police chase should be an actual chase between police AI and NPC AI in which you show up to save civilians from being killed and stop the NPC AI. No two police chase would be alike. But no, 1000% scripted. Even the chases in main missions are 100% scripted. The entire city and its NPC are literally just wall-paper. Quite the contrast from every other open world game (GTA, watchdogs, etc)

I and others expected something like this:




Do 5% of what other open world games do. Maybe people can overlook the fact the graphics just looks incrementally better.

In the recent press kit about how Spiderman 2 is tapping into the ps5's power, one of the things they cited is how cars move more realistically and how npc's are seen through windows. Neither one of those things is really ai driven tho. The other things were muscle deformation, rt reflections, and traversal speed.

Most of those things were already in MM tho. You're so right about the lack of real ai and scripted car chases.

 

[ChiefDada]

Tiny gif doesn't do it justice.

The leap is there and its spectacular.

It's night and day. People in this thread are just plain weird.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Tiny gif doesn't do it justice.

The leap is there and its spectacular.

Well yeah, area in the distance was not playable in the first game so no wonder it’s not fully rendered…

 

[PeteBull]

Here.




Full article: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2019-we-built-a-zen-2-navi-pc-to-next-gen-console-specs

So tldr performance in games is below 4x, and theoreticaly performance below 5x even tho they mention their test is inacurate, so not 8x cpu upgrade like u claimed, ty kindly xD

 

[HighPoly]

I'd play it at 20fps, I dont give a shit

PS6

 

[GymWolf]

Zelda looks fine. But i still want this zelda they show running realtime at 1080p 60 fps on a Wii U!

this looks better than most current gen games lmao.

Lol no it doesn't.

But it still look light years more pleasant than the last 2 low res galore vomit inducing zelda games.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Lol, you're questioning whether a console releasing in 2028 will have the capabilities of a top end PC card released in 2022? We get it, you're all about that PCMR but we're trying to have an interesting discussion based in truth and reality.

Nov 2027, Sony always releases November.

By RDNA 5 you would need over 2x performance jumps each RDNA gens to catch up to 4090 baseline. That's a tall fucking order. We see 1.5x jump from RDNA 2 to 3. It's so bad that the Turing flagship is beating them. Fucking Turing, imagine that. Didn't even have concurrent RT + graphic workload on that gen.

For a company that has not started anything ML related and holds on to their hybrid RT pipeline for dear life, which is getting destroyed in path tracing, you'll be lucky they even find a solution to ray reconstruction by 2027.

Not to mention AMD RDNA 4 rumours is that they're dropping flagship high end cards

By 2027, on "mid range" equivalents in what you have in consoles, to get the Cyberpunk 2077 overdrive playable on console you basically need AMD to throw their hybrid pipeline in the garbage and start again. Its made for inline queued and neat requests, which path tracing does not play well with. We haven't even thrown an ML wrench into that pipeline yet and its choking. Which for ray reconstruction match, i don't see how you escape ML.

It'll happen on console and exceed it on 1 condition

Spoiler

They go Intel

 

[GymWolf]

Turk, look away. Ps5 vs pc path tracing. Remember, ps5 version only had rt shadows in the base game. So these comparisons likely don’t have any rtgi or reflections. Seeing as how they virtually look identical, maybe they do.

Lmao like i needed another video to show how situational rtx are...

Half of the times it just looks darker and the other half i can barely notice any difference...

Yeah this is not worth the performance hit at all for me.