GymWolf
Member
Pathetic, but people told me that jimbo si 10x better than phil at handling studios...
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Pathetic, but people told me that jimbo si 10x better than phil at handling studios...
GymWolf
Member
20x times better and we have a deal?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The Remedy dev said he has no idea if either Sony or MS are doing a mid gen refresh.
Luipadre
Member
i mean even if he would know hes probably under NDA
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
he just came out and said i dont know about the switch 2, xbox or ps5 pro. he genuinely didnt seem aware.
I was actually agreeing with you but let’s say 30x better?
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
Every time I see people talk about 30fps 'superiority' and how 60fps is a major sacrifice all I can think is.... what is being sacrificed?
It's always graphics and resolution. Never anything that actually affects the gameplay. Performance modes never remove gameplay complexity or design. If a game runs at 30fps it can almost always be made to run at 60 unless it's cpu bound... modern console games are almost always never cpu bound for any good reason.
GymWolf
Member
I was actually agreeing with you but let’s say 30x better?
GymWolf
Member
Wtf? why?
Dude don't get banned again.
Kaiserstark
Member
Remedy had about 130 peoples on average working on Alan Wake 2. For HFW, Guerrilla had more than 300 peoples working on it.
Remedy said in the past that for example Quantum Break had four animators but a game like Uncharted 4 had 28 animators. They can't really compete with studio that have big budgets like Naughty dog or Guerrilla.
GymWolf
Member
Fair, i was just susprised to see people considering this game the second coming of sliced fleshlight...
Btw, so this thing was supposed to look better than demons remake uh?
We have 2 options here, the game looks nothing like the bullshot we saw or this is the worst case of yt compression i ever seen.
Last edited:
Lethal01
Member
Well I guess that settles it.
Actually FF7 Rebirth is already beating the CGI from FF7 Remake
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Hell yes…TLOU 2 Remastered…
reddit.com
Reddit - Dive into anything
reddit.com
Last edited:
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
What’s bad about it?
ChiefDada
Member
Wtf that's bullshit! A fucking developer said it! I guess Neogaf will live long enough to see itself become Resetera smh
ChiefDada
Member
Not true it's entirely game dependent. In fact in most cases at least one visual quality is reduced.
I want them to focus on a new ip or even tlou 3 or factions etc. we had tlou 1 remake last year we do not need another remake/remaster!
ChiefDada
Member
I'll make it clear that I'm not watching anything since I want to go in as blind as possible, I'm only checking and listening some impressions here and there, but even those that are rather critical of how the game plays agree that at least it looks fantastic. I get it, people have different standards, but I wouldn't expect such effusive praise if it looked subpar. Maybe it really is a case of bad Youtube compression, or maybe they're not playing the game maxed out? I guess we'll see next week, my 4090 is ready... I HOPE.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Expansions, remakes, remasters, cross gen games from sony studios. Spiderman 2 is looking pretty good right about now.
My apologies to Insomniac. I judged you too harshly.
My apologies to Insomniac. I judged you too harshly.
Xtib81
Member
What a terrible turn of events for Sony. First-party studios wise, there is just nothing substantial on this damn console !
Aren't GG, ND, SM supposed to be working on several projects !? Where is Bluepoint? Where is Bend?
Last edited:
ChiefDada
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Just look at the starfield, Spider-Man 2 and forza downgrades. These games are all downgraded from their original reveals and that’s why they look so inconsistent. I’m sure lords of the fallen 2 will impress but it will have lots of very mediocre areas that will look subpar.
I’m bracing for a massive avatar downgrade. Alan wake on consoles might look rough as well. They have shown nothing but PC footage so far which likely is path tracing footage.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is why it was so important for gg, pd, and ssm to make next Gen only games. They all went in 2022 and now we have to wait till 2027-2028 to see true next Gen games from the best studios in the business.
As for their second teams, they are all making gaas games. Insomniac has a suicide Squad like game brewing. Gg is working on horizon online. Nd worked on factions for 5 years though i guess that’s dead now. Ssm is too small for two teams but Cory was working on a new ip sinxe 2018. My guess is that he didn’t have enough people to get anything substantial going by 2022 which is why they are working on dlc they said they wouldn’t do. Bend only started working on their new game by April 2021. Their uncharted spin off was dropped after a year and half of meddling by naughty dog.
Studios are simply poorly managed. Herman is absolutely clueless. Its why you are seeing gg work on a horizon 1 remaster. Nd work on a tlou2 remaster and ssm work on dlc. They didn’t have any work lined up for these guys. They can either do layoffs or have them work on small projects like remasters and DLCs.
They are not the only ones. Cd projected wasted 3 years and burned through $125 million fixing cyberpunk and releasing phantom Liberty with 2.0 changes. Crystal dynamics has been working on rebooting Tomb raider since shipping avengers in September 2020, but have fuck all to show for it. BioWare has been making dragon age 4 since February 2019. Nothing to show after almost 5 years. Ubisoft’s ac odyssey team hasn’t made a game since 2018. That’s 5 years without a game. They made syndicate and odyssey in 3 years. The valhalla guys last released a game 3 years ago and then wasted 3 years on this bullshit dlc.
Let’s just hope they are all working on truly genre defining next Gen pushing games which is why they are taking forever.
Last edited:
ChiefDada
Member
If this is real then GODDAMN
Update: It's Real.
The DENSITY. F***ing STUNNING!!!!!!!!!!
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
What’s bad about something to hold us over, that we all wanted and that will raise more money for the studio to make a new IP and TLOU 3 much better? They have multiple teams dedicated to multiple projects?
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
If this is real then GODDAMN
Looking on my phone but this looks good
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Run TLOU 2 on PS4 at 60 fps.
mrqs
Member
This hits hard.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
There is hero lighting on spiderman so at the very least its from photomode.
I see some decent lighting on street level but building quality and light emissions from building windows is still pretty last gen. Decent upgrade from the first game though.
I'm really not impressed by the spiderman night shot. It looks nothing at all like how a city reacts to light at night, the window lighting is way too consistent and repetitive, and the street lights below don't cascade up the buildings creating the bold & stark avenues that you get in a real city at night. There's barely any atmosphere or depth to it, the range of light to dark is the same across the entire frame.
I know that there's no better example of a city at night from the air in a game I can point too, but if you've ever really seen and studied a city from above at night, it looks pretty wack.
E - here's an example. The streetlights overpower the interior building lights, there's a real layering happening between light sources. The exposure of this is lower than the spiderman shot too, so to raise this to comparable levels for the building and the streets glow, casting super warm light up 5-10 stories.
I'm only pointing this out not because I think it's a tech or power issue but one of art direction. It doesn't have dynamic time of day, there's absolutely no reason for the streets to not be bathed in light with a dynamic exposure change as you drop to street level.
There's a lot they could have done to introduce some layering and hierarchy to the light sources. Not even getting into the glowing buildings because they have a grey ambient gi light... if they needed the rooftops to be lit, use late dusk. Baffling choices.
Edit 2 - here's a shot where the building lights match the exposure of the building lights in the spiderman shot. Zoom in and look how much the street glows and the atmosphere catches light! The white balance of this photo sucks but it gives you an idea of how the levels work in real life.
I could dig out so many more references but there's a real hard miss here when it comes to the art direction.
I know that there's no better example of a city at night from the air in a game I can point too, but if you've ever really seen and studied a city from above at night, it looks pretty wack.
E - here's an example. The streetlights overpower the interior building lights, there's a real layering happening between light sources. The exposure of this is lower than the spiderman shot too, so to raise this to comparable levels for the building and the streets glow, casting super warm light up 5-10 stories.
I'm only pointing this out not because I think it's a tech or power issue but one of art direction. It doesn't have dynamic time of day, there's absolutely no reason for the streets to not be bathed in light with a dynamic exposure change as you drop to street level.
There's a lot they could have done to introduce some layering and hierarchy to the light sources. Not even getting into the glowing buildings because they have a grey ambient gi light... if they needed the rooftops to be lit, use late dusk. Baffling choices.
Edit 2 - here's a shot where the building lights match the exposure of the building lights in the spiderman shot. Zoom in and look how much the street glows and the atmosphere catches light! The white balance of this photo sucks but it gives you an idea of how the levels work in real life.
I could dig out so many more references but there's a real hard miss here when it comes to the art direction.
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I made some spiderman comparisons. l dont have a 100% save in spiderman remastered so had to use miles and night time in miles is slightly different due to snow.
Lighting is better than the first, but its still a bit too blocky and cardboardy to me. i think they shouldve focused on improving the building asset quality for the sequel above everything else.
Here is a night time shot from spiderman 1.
Lighting is better than the first, but its still a bit too blocky and cardboardy to me. i think they shouldve focused on improving the building asset quality for the sequel above everything else.
Here is a night time shot from spiderman 1.
We lost another one.
They definitely has issues with memory when it came to defining lights on / off in spiderman 1.
What's interesting is in sm2 it looks like they've tried to get the effect of light cascading up the buildings - but they haven't changed the light on the street itself in any way, so it clashes and looks like it doesn't match. There's a building in that shot of sm2 with a smooth gradient of light going up coming from a dark street.
MM with better randomisation for the lights that were on would look better than where they've ended up, it's improved in some ways for sure but it's kind of messy.
What's interesting is in sm2 it looks like they've tried to get the effect of light cascading up the buildings - but they haven't changed the light on the street itself in any way, so it clashes and looks like it doesn't match. There's a building in that shot of sm2 with a smooth gradient of light going up coming from a dark street.
MM with better randomisation for the lights that were on would look better than where they've ended up, it's improved in some ways for sure but it's kind of messy.
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Agreed. It just looks wrong, doesnt it. I think other last gen games like cyberpunk and arkham knight handle night time lighting a lot better. So definitely not a tech issue. Cyberpunk and Arkham knight just have better art direction at night with the way the city is designed with either a cyberpunk or gothic look. spiderman is too sterile and it just doesnt pop at night like it does in other time of day. It's a shame cyberpunk never allowed us to fly around the city in a car because on street level it looks marvelous at inight.I'm really not impressed by the spiderman night shot. It looks nothing at all like how a city reacts to light at night, the window lighting is way too consistent and repetitive, and the street lights below don't cascade up the buildings creating the bold & stark avenues that you get in a real city at night. There's barely any atmosphere or depth to it, the range of light to dark is the same across the entire frame.
I know that there's no better example of a city at night from the air in a game I can point too, but if you've ever really seen and studied a city from above at night, it looks pretty wack.
E - here's an example. The streetlights overpower the interior building lights, there's a real layering happening between light sources. The exposure of this is lower than the spiderman shot too, so to raise this to comparable levels for the building and the streets glow, casting super warm light up 5-10 stories.
I'm only pointing this out not because I think it's a tech or power issue but one of art direction. It doesn't have dynamic time of day, there's absolutely no reason for the streets to not be bathed in light with a dynamic exposure change as you drop to street level.
There's a lot they could have done to introduce some layering and hierarchy to the light sources. Not even getting into the glowing buildings because they have a grey ambient gi light... if they needed the rooftops to be lit, use late dusk. Baffling choices.
Edit 2 - here's a shot where the building lights match the exposure of the building lights in the spiderman shot. Zoom in and look how much the street glows and the atmosphere catches light! The white balance of this photo sucks but it gives you an idea of how the levels work in real life.
I could dig out so many more references but there's a real hard miss here when it comes to the art direction.
I think Matrix comes very close and they hadnt even nailed down night time lighting when they shipped the demo. But they said that the city is lit exclusively from emissive lightings from building windows.
Real life:
Matrix:
ChiefDada
Member
I'm really not impressed by the spiderman night shot. It looks nothing at all like how a city reacts to light at night, the window lighting is way too consistent and repetitive, and the street lights below don't cascade up the buildings creating the bold & stark avenues that you get in a real city at night. There's barely any atmosphere or depth to it, the range of light to dark is the same across the entire frame.
I know that there's no better example of a city at night from the air in a game I can point too, but if you've ever really seen and studied a city from above at night, it looks pretty wack.
E - here's an example. The streetlights overpower the interior building lights, there's a real layering happening between light sources. The exposure of this is lower than the spiderman shot too, so to raise this to comparable levels for the building and the streets glow, casting super warm light up 5-10 stories.
I'm only pointing this out not because I think it's a tech or power issue but one of art direction. It doesn't have dynamic time of day, there's absolutely no reason for the streets to not be bathed in light with a dynamic exposure change as you drop to street level.
There's a lot they could have done to introduce some layering and hierarchy to the light sources. Not even getting into the glowing buildings because they have a grey ambient gi light... if they needed the rooftops to be lit, use late dusk. Baffling choices.
Edit 2 - here's a shot where the building lights match the exposure of the building lights in the spiderman shot. Zoom in and look how much the street glows and the atmosphere catches light! The white balance of this photo sucks but it gives you an idea of how the levels work in real life.
I could dig out so many more references but there's a real hard miss here when it comes to the art direction.
I honestly think you're mistaking processing effects for rendering limitations here but who knows.
Edit- Nvm, you say you DON'T think it's tech but art related and I agree. Like I said, I think they sometimes make bizarre art choices for their marketing shots.
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ok this shit looks next gen.
I think this gen will continue to be like this. Just glimpses of next gen in a sea of mediocrity. just like in FF16, starfield, now forza and soon Spiderman 2 and lords of the fallen 2. you have to go in with an open mind and live with the fact that not everything will look next gen 100% of the time. i was happy with starfield looking next gen 50-50 and FF16's insane setpieces, and I have to concede forza and spiderman look way better than their predecessors.
I think this gen will continue to be like this. Just glimpses of next gen in a sea of mediocrity. just like in FF16, starfield, now forza and soon Spiderman 2 and lords of the fallen 2. you have to go in with an open mind and live with the fact that not everything will look next gen 100% of the time. i was happy with starfield looking next gen 50-50 and FF16's insane setpieces, and I have to concede forza and spiderman look way better than their predecessors.
Honestly I think I'm confusing neither - I believe it's down to creative choices and not having a clear vision of what night time should feel like. It takes good rendering and good post to pull it off but not if it's not been defined to begin with.
Cyberpunk and Batman are clear examples of games where many, many meetings were had about how night time should look and feel, it was really critical to the entire vision of those games, and spiderman feels like they went 'its nighttime, just turn the sun off and add lights everywhere'. The second is better but not in a way that feels like it had more than a token amount of focus.
Last edited:
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Fuck
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Playing MW2 remastered right now and man this shit was so amazing back in the day. They did an alright job with the remaster, but they should have went full blown next gen.
PeteBull
Member
Thats normal, no game looks close to their bullshots, and yup, graphically it looks somewhere inbetween elden ring and demons souls remaster, but at least elden ring is open world, demons souls remaster was avaiable at launch, and still looks amazing, tldr, lords dont look aweful but 0 next gen feel.
Once again lesson learned- dont judge game's graphics from trailers(especially early non gameplay trailers) or screenies(bullshots) dev/pub provides as marketting material, but judge it looking at actual real gameplay at launch
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I fucking loved this mission in MW2 22.
Short, intense, beautiful. The containers moving around was also a nice touch.
COD has so much potential for fucking greatness. It looks amazing at times and has high production values. If they would just add destruction, we'd be cooking.
Short, intense, beautiful. The containers moving around was also a nice touch.
COD has so much potential for fucking greatness. It looks amazing at times and has high production values. If they would just add destruction, we'd be cooking.
Last edited:
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
That’s because we don’t know if ff16 are fully pre-rendered. In this war scene, maybe only background crowd is?You didn't though, you picked a mix a realtime and pre-rendered in engine cutscenes
They even mix the two elements in a single shot, suppose I can't expect you to notice.
And even those prerendered cutscenes still aren't even near up to the level of that raytraced trailer.
Again though
No, no moment in any game out gets even close to that lighting quality.
You can look at the most bland, most flat wall in that trailer and it will have far more accurate lighting.
I'd love for you to prove those last two sentences to be an exaggeration and to remind me of some amazing looking console game I forgot about but if you really think the lighting quality of ff16 is close to that of the Spiderman trailer you are beyond help.
Edit: FF16 looks great, stop making me bring it down by having to compare it to graphics rendered at 0.1 fps on 6090 class GPUs
Anyway, the goal of ff16 pre-rendered cutscenes is not to stand out. They are meant to look just like the game graphics
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Tlou1 remake was mostly outsourced.
Tlou2 will just be a remaster. Ez work. Why not. 4k60, some better loading and haptics. Like uc4 is enough.
I don’t get why slimysnake is constantly reporting this one cherry picked tlou2 pic of Ellie in shadows. Cmon man
GymWolf
Member
They should not waste their time with remakes of relatively new games.