SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Until avatar comes out.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The day a Ubisoft game looks better than a premium Sony first party game from Guerrilla is the day… I don’t know. Not happening.
Avatar won’t do everything well like burning shores does. Might have some areas that look better.. but on a whole? Hellll nah
arkhamguy123
Member
They’ve kinda been phoning it in this gen though
Xtib81
Member
Speaking of which, isn't this game supposed to release in a bit over 1 month? Yet, no previews, barely any communication except a trailer here and there over the last few weeks/months. That doesn't inspire trust.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I really do agree with everything you're saying but LOD management is soooo bad especially for a current gen only game that emphasizes traversal through the air. Pop-in was the number one thing I wanted to be fixed for current gen so HBS shortcoming here sticks out like a sore thumb.
But yeah well said - OVERALL it is still the best of current gen, just not the most impactful/impressive TO ME because of the issues.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Things change. We never thought Sony devs would phone in cutscenes or release last Gen games two years into the gen either. Some random dev just topped horizon. Who is to say Ubisofts premiere studio won’t?
Division and division 2 still look great. Watch dogs legion is looker. Now they are targeting next Gen only specs. I think it already looks better but I’m sure people will find ugly screenshots to shit on the game’s accomplishments. Luckily i have my own set of horizon shots to prove them wrong.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
That's some driveclub effect right here
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah but they also showcased their game running on the ps5 at the gameplay reveal, showed PC footage at gamescom then even showed 60 fps ps5 footage last month.
The previews should come close to release like Spider-Man.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
I literally told him what you said months ago, I still got the receipts. He mentioned some PC demo from Epic Games that had the likeness of the original demo, but it was obvious the environments were downgraded.You do realize that Lumen in the land of nanite (PS5 demo) has more small details than all the other UE5 demos other than the Electric Dream forest demo? This includes even the Matrix Awaken demo. Matrix Awaken has big details (buildings) and some medium size details (rooftop objects) but the streets are mainly empty of small details.
There is nothing that comes anywhere close to that original demo from Epic Games, I’m specifically referring to the environments.
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Balducci30
Member
Horizons visuals still aren’t the bar for me - the lighting is pretty dogshit as is the pop in. It just overall looks the closest to what I expected this gen to look like - weren’t these consoles supposed to be like 10x as powerful as the previous ones? There was all this stuff about cpus and how it was the biggest technological jump between consoles ever. The new avatar trailer looks good at points and then at others looks sub par - was clearly downgraded from the initial reveal
Lethal01
Member
MGS remake looks trash.
Same reason the bluepoint remakes are fucked.
As others have said, looks like a "HALF LIFE IN UE5" fanmade things you see pop up on youtube constantly.
I expected much better from Konami!!!
I kid ofcourse, this shit was doomed from the start
Same reason the bluepoint remakes are fucked.
As others have said, looks like a "HALF LIFE IN UE5" fanmade things you see pop up on youtube constantly.
I expected much better from Konami!!!
I kid ofcourse, this shit was doomed from the start
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Lumpyoatmeal
Member
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Lumpyoatmeal
Member
That Rockstar team for GTA 5 had way more man hours than Naughty Dog's Last Of Us 2 team. If Naughty Dog moves away from on rail retail games they are going to need a magnitude more of staffing to meet Matrix quality at retail. Right now I will put more stock into Rockstar, crunching will only get you so many extra man hours, you need adequate staffing.
Whatever game they release at the end of the gen, will be the best looking game of the gen.
I would argue in terms of complete package and consistency Rift Apart is right up there.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Mgs3 remake looks generic. The graphics themselves are great but there's 0 character or charm to it
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Absolutely is but this board always seems to underrate it due to its cartoon roots
Slimy for the love of god do not expect the ark remaster to look like that trailer, I'm surprised you are not aware of how the original release went. We should all be expecting a great example of how badly ue5 can run while looking like it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. I actually played alot of the original game back at release even though it ran and looked like shit, peer pressure and all that........
edit: you can find some streams and stuff now lol oh boy someone doing a nightwish meme cover for I want my frames back NOW.
edit: you can find some streams and stuff now lol oh boy someone doing a nightwish meme cover for I want my frames back NOW.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Dunno if some1 already posted this graphics fidelity comparision(pretty sure mod for more curves was used lol;p), but just incase im first, there u go, graphics fidelity hopefully we all get behind
Insomniac focused more on making her face beautiful, but nice try buddy.
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I almost 100% agree except Remedy doesnt think "visual effects = next gen" at all. They just dont have the budget like the big studios to upgrade there assets and less face it this gen it doesnt even seem like the big studios are budgeting for that either.The thing about AW2 is, while the lighting tech itself is clearly next gen and the VFX is clearly next gen, including the cloth tech. The game as a whole does not have the visual fidelity of a next gen game.
If we are to believe everything we are told about the tech (mesh shader, baby path tracing, control's destruction).
Then the fault lies squarely on the environment and lighting artists.
You call the PS5 UE5 demo a corridor. But this game is as corridor as they get. All remedy games are corridors.
Quatum Break was a corridor. Control was a corridor (litterally took place in rooms of a house).
AW2 is also a corridor.
Infact the launch gameplay they showed in the Xbox showcase was in a house, lit by one light source.
There weren't anything there that looked impressive or even scary. Then they walk outside and again pitch black and a bright VFX source. This is that's the problem with Remedy.
They think next gen = visual effects. It isn't.
Compare that with say this. This was AI generated. Notice the interesting lighting and the mood the lighting casted.
Now imagine the player character slow walking on this street and then going next to that car and then investigating behind that house and entering it. Notice the level of asset density
The entire scene would be scary, just from the realism of it, especially with added music.
But no....they rather molest the screen with stupid VFX and bland environment and lighting.
Literally it looks like the entire game takes place in pitch darkness.
As others said, they should have baked the lighting and saved huge on performance.
So no the problem isn't their individual tech.
If they cant upgrade the assets then they made the right decision with lighting being the focus. Beggars cant be choosers.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Watch Dogs Legion falls flat on its ass when you examine the character models. It doesn't look much better than Watch Dogs 2, which was most achieved in replicating SF.
Neither Star Wars Outlaws or Avatar Frontiers impresses me. There's something painfully generic about the artstyles, and don't get me started about the gameplay. Just draining to look at.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Also best reflection in the business ladies and gentleman
Maybe someone is gonna tell me how this shit is better than ssr or games that were doing reflections a decade ago?
But hey the game looks splending in highly curated fast paced gifs and photomode pics with a big iq improvement
As i say every damn time, you people are super lucky that i can't bother taking screen for every shit i see, EXTREMELY lucky.
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Lethal01
Member
Oh I thought you were comparing this to Cyberpunk or something, this is absolutely 100x better than SSR, you post that picture of Peter being reflected in teh mirror but if this were SSR he would just not be there at all, neither would anything else offscreen.
this hybrid ray tracing is far from perfect but it's a quantum leap ahead of ssr
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Yeah, smeared in shit low res reflections are worth losing a buckload of rendering budget alright.
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Lethal01
Member
Hey you can feel they aren't worth it.
But they are definitely higher quality that SSR, which again, just doesn't work more than half the time.
Low quality reflections are better than no reflections.
And I saw that you liked my post, no take backs
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GymWolf
Gold Member
The thing is, i saw low details raflections in a lot of games without rtx and they looked on par or very similar.
From kiwami 2 to tlou2 to horizon to many other games, decent characters/environment reflections existed before rtx, now i don't know if they were ssr or cubemaps or whatever alternative tech it was, but i swear, low detail reflections are nothing new...
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Those pond reflections are trash. The rest are ok.This section was legit ps4 launch title tier.
Also best reflection in the business ladies and gentleman
Maybe someone is gonna tell me how this shit is better than ssr or games that were doing reflections a decade ago?
But hey the game looks splending in highly curated fast paced gifs and photomode pics with a big iq improvement
As i say every damn time, you people are super lucky that i can't bother taking screen for every shit i see, EXTREMELY lucky.
Lethal01
Member
If you carefully curate things you can set up a surface to have a duplicated character model to do a reflection, sometime they would duplicate the entire room in specific rooms that were meant to be light weight enough to handle the giant performance cost of doing that, specifically just so the player goes, "oh yeah reflections exist" a few times per game. so we did indeed have specific rooms that would have a single mirror or something. as soon as you try to make that kind of thing work for multiple mirrors in a normal area you start running into so many issues and your performance quickly gets even worse than it does with current raytracing
so again, this meant you had actual reflection 1% of the time, usually localized to a single object or a wall if you are lucky.
Or you go with screen space reflection and can only get your character to actually reflect if you position them 45 degree adjects to a mirror. Again, it only works a small percentage of the time.
I can't understate the plethora of issue reflections have always had in gaming. they are usually just so dim and hidden so you don't really even notice they are there outside of things looking vaguely shiny.
the rest of the time?
But I will say that I would sacrifice reflections for accurate direct shadows and indirect shadows.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
I'm too lazy to search for examples from the games i listed, but i think that having a ps2 model reflection is more distracting than a blurry one.If you carefully curate things you can set up a surface to have a duplicated character model to do a reflection, sometime they would duplicate the entire room in specific rooms that were meant to be light weight enough to handle the giant performance cost of doing that, specifically just so the player goes, "oh yeah reflections exist" a few times per game. so we did indeed have specific rooms that would have a single mirror or something. as soon as you try to make that kind of thing work for multiple mirrors in a normal area you start running into so many issues and your performance quickly gets even worse than it does with current raytracing
so again, this meant you had actual reflection 1% of the time, usually localized to a single object or a wall if you are lucky.
I can't understate the plethora of issue reflections have always had in gaming. they are usually just so dim and hidden so you don't really even notice they are there outside of things looking vaguely shiny.
the rest of the time?
But I will say that I would sacrifice reflections for accurate direct shadows and indirect shadows.
Is this really that different from sp2 reflections in the water?
(low res img but you get the gist, it obviously looks better on native res)
They are both low res aproximations of a way more detailed environment.
I could find much better than this, but like i said, i'm lazy...
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Lethal01
Member
I'm too lazy to search for examples from the games i listed, but i think that having a ps2 model reflection is more distracting than a blurry one.
Is this really that different from sp2 reflections in the water?
(low res img but you get the gist, it obviously looks better on native res)
They are both low res aproximation of a way more detailed environment.
I could find much better than this, but like i said, i'm lazy...
Was more talking about characters, enviroments are a separate issues and indeed a bit easier, but again still full of issues, only when you can really curate thing and working with a few specific reflecting objects if you use cubemaps. Again, your showcasing exactly what I'm talking about, "Mirror bathrooms" made specifcally to showcase a single reflective surface and designed around doing that. made to have mirrors it's not workable for a city that is filled to the brim with mirrors or even a room with multiple mirrors..
Also the performance cost is likely to be much less predictable making it hard to scale this kind of technique up so again when you try to use it on a large scale it ends up looking much worse than that example or the performance gets bad to the point that raytracing would actually give you higher fps.
Or again, use SSR and have all those reflections disappear once the thing that's being reflected is offscreen or obscured by something else, or if the angel is too steep, it's just not a good system and constantly falls aparts.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
GymWolf
Gold Member
When they work like in that example, and in a slow paced game where you don't have to stop on purpose to check them, sure, why not.
I have them turned on in cyberpunk aswell.
They are not on top of my priorities tho, i can live with blurry reflections if in exchange i have overall better textures and geometry for everything else.
Different priorities buddy.
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Show the comparison using the water reflections and tell me what the fuck is up with the ps5 side.
edit: i'm not talking about the reflections i'm talking about whatever the stuff is that looks like i'm looking through a dirty window.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i am all for priorities too. in case of spiderman, i wouldve taken better buildings and character models sure.
Just saying that rt reflections can add a lot to the IQ as well. maybe insomniac can follow remedy's lead and skip rt reflections on consoles and just focus on asset quality and visual fidelity while providing rt reflections to pc players like us on pc. best of both worlds.
i actually didnt see the water reflections until after i posted that first screenshot, but i prfer the ps5 reflections there. yes, they are smudgy and aliased but the mirror like reflections in the water are a bit too clear. i posted a real life picture of mirror like reflections at a grocery store the other day, and they were not this reflective or for lack of a better word mirror-ry.
smudgey and aliased? I can barely see any reflections for all the bloody noise. It actually looks like it's a bad job of making some kinda of floating polluted effect on dirty water.
Alex11
Member
So, the forest area, in your honest opinion, does it look better than the forest area in TLOU2?
arkhamguy123
Member
Dunno if some1 already posted this graphics fidelity comparision(pretty sure mod for more curves was used lol;p), but just incase im first, there u go, graphics fidelity hopefully we all get behind
There is no fuckin way that’s MJ’s actual in game body. No fuckin way. That’s boarderline self parody.
That’d be like your male lead in your game just so happens to look like Captain America before the super soldier serum in the movie. Just, “oh nothing to see here this is just our character design for this guy for no reason in particular”
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is the most woke game ever made. If i listed all the woke things in bullet points, it would be around a 100 and I’m only 30% through the game. So yh of course they gave her a man’s ass. Women are not allowed to be feminine in woke societies.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I don’t want to watch the video until i play the game myself. Only watched some ps5 vs pc comparisons. Will report back tonight if it unlocks before midnight.
The gifs musilla posted look a generation ahead of tlou2 which i consider to the best looking game of last Gen. Incredible lighting and asset density.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
How big of a difference is it in general between PC and consoles? Can’t watch now.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Check out the adamsapple breakdown in another thread. I was mostly listening to the video to avoid spoilers but i recall him saying that while the difference is noticeable, it’s not huge and the ps5 version looks equally next Gen. And that path tracing doesnt look that much better than the console versions.
Luipadre
Member
Insane how god it looks even on PS5
Generation is just getting started … now that the cross generation BS is gone ..
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I am convinced that at Insomniac Games they have put the women of the studio in charge of modeling MJ, who probably have less experience.
Because he is simply something atrocious, not only compared to his fellow protagonists, any NPC enemy has a better finish, he is the worst main character in a Sony first party game by far.
Random NPC.
MJ.
I have no words.
Because he is simply something atrocious, not only compared to his fellow protagonists, any NPC enemy has a better finish, he is the worst main character in a Sony first party game by far.
Random NPC.
MJ.
I have no words.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Baked lighting so PT can’t flex its muscles.
Good upgrade over consoles in general, from the sound of it:
- Console comparison with PC at max done.
- PC highest settings have better reflections, less grain, better reflections, better shadows, cascade etc. RT shadows etc are available on PC with the RT suite.
- Actual world lighting is not that different compared to console when PC is on path-tracing.
- "Console players aren't missing out on that much" compared to games like Cyberpunk.
- "Path traced PC version does look a lot better, but it doesn't embarrass the consoles"
adamsapple