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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
But does Alan Wake 2 look better than this?
its funny how in a span of a day I was turned into a UE5 hater after spending years stanning for UE5 and getting mocked for saying PS studios should all switch to UE5. UE5 alone doesnt make anything next gen. Snake Eater, Lords of the Fallen, Immortals and Remnant 2 not looking as good as Cyberpunk, Horizon, etc. should be proof of that.
Never said SM2 looked next gen though. I said its doing next gen things with the cpu and ssd that I am not going to ignore just because the visuals werent upgraded. Thats why this discussion has been so frustrating. Simply pointing out next gen features is a crime in this thread.
AW2 though, come on. Simply cannot agree. Its absolutely next gen. Watch it win best graphics at the end of the year. Im calling it now.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Quixxel is free with UE5 so no need to go waste time taking pictures of russian swamps and importing them when quixxel photographers have already done the work.
In the end it’s not the engine that makes a good game. But UE5 will make it a lot easier imo .
arkhamguy123
Member
These small no name studios takin on shit on PlayStations prestige first party studios does make me look at them funny.
Perhaps it’s not a talent issue but a drive/will issue. They seem content not pushing graphics anymore like they did with PS2, PS3, PS4.
Cool. No Spoilers please. I have to wait till I get back from vacation before I can buy my new setup and wont be able to play it till then. Remedy is my favorite.
It looks pretty good especially the Dino Skin but it far from the in engine they orginaly showed a couple years ago with vin Diesal.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You mean this initial reveal trailer?
Compared to that the character modeling and animation were downgraded, but the entire environment and lighting were upgraded.
Then the second trailer which Slimy posted above which shows an even bigger upgrade to the environment which might have been scaled down just a tad bit compared to the recent trailer. The character rendering however has taken a huge hit.
But still looks amazing.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Water, rocks and wood structures are whatever (please don't make me take pics), vegetation looks on the same tier of avatar first reveal trailer or slightly worse, human models look ok-ish.
The creature rendering and that bit of destruction are the stand out.
Overall, it looks incredible and next gen has finally arrived.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
If we need that to have good assets all around, i'm all for it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Hell has frozen over. Gymwolf finally found his next gen game.
Senua
Gold Member
I think the art is off..hard to put my finger on why but it's the same thing that separates the fan creations from the pro devs. some devs have all the gear and no idea. You know when a game just looks right
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I was trying to say that it looks generic. Like countless other forest / jungle UE5 samples on YouTube. Nothing impressive about it. Not graphically and 100% not artistically.
GymWolf
Gold Member
It looks generic, and snake lacks personality in the face, i agree.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Perfectly agree, i was just talking about the graphical aspect.
GymWolf
Gold Member
No i'm stepping down if anything.
It has become kinda tiring, it's better to just settle down and accept that this gen is just a shitty step into an (hopefully) better future.
From now on, my standard reaction is gonna be "it looks incredible" or "nextgen has finally come and so am i"
First victim of my ruse.
Oh and btw, horizon was my first nextgen game, having every character with the detail of your main protagonist (that looks almost cg at any given moment) is more nextgen than any stupid shit rtx effect alan wake is ever gonna have
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Just got the confirmation from the OT. This is not the same game guys. This is a remaster/remake of the original Ark.
The vin diesel game is the sequel.
arkhamguy123
Member
*crossgenFirst victim of my ruse.
Oh and btw, horizon was my first nextgen game, having every character with the detail of your main protagonist (that looks almost cg at any given moment) is more nextgen than any stupid shit rtx effect alan wake is ever gonna have
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Second victim. Gymwolf doesnt think HFW is next gen.
GymWolf
Gold Member
It was a nextgen moment in a crossgen game, but that game hit me in the right spots most of the time so i consider that one more nextgen than most actual nextgen games.
Sometimes i have these moments like with the robotic space cantina in ratchet or the in spidey 2.
Sometimes i have these moments like with the robotic space cantina in ratchet or the in spidey 2.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I thought we established just yesterday that thou shalt not be able to enjoy next gen moments/features in games that are not 100% next gen at all times.
StueyDuck
Member
are we really using Ark2 as a next gen example have any of you actually played a game from these scam artists, firstly that gameplay trailer looks about in line with current game visuals in general, secondly these guys can't make a game for shit, you remember that pirate game? of course you don't because it was a hack job reusing ark assets and was an abysmal mess... much like ark
have any of you actually played a game from these scam artists, firstly that gameplay trailer looks about in line with current game visuals in general, secondly these guys can't make a game for shit, you remember that pirate game? of course you don't because it was a hack job reusing ark assets and was an abysmal mess... much like ark
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I love how this $40 remaster looks more next gen than $70 next gen games from Sony and MS first party studios.
It's coming out later today on PC. Fuck Spiderman. I am spending the night with vin diesel.
It's coming out later today on PC. Fuck Spiderman. I am spending the night with vin diesel.
I meant the one Slimy posted and the enviroment looks way better in that than the trailer shown. Im not trying to knock the trailer just that outside of the lighting and dino skin im not seeing the level of complexity the 2nd trailer suggested.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
its not ark2. its the remaster and the pc version is coming out today. we will find out soon enough if they are scammers.are we really using Ark2 as a next gen example
RTX 3080 is the recommended spec for this. Its definitely not targeting last gen GPUs.
Really nice shots. It comes out today. Super jelly.I love how this $40 remaster looks more next gen than $70 next gen games from Sony and MS first party studios.
It's coming out later today on PC. Fuck Spiderman. I am spending the night with vin diesel.
I wonder if the dino skin is using nanite since dino skin doesnt stretch the obvious way soft skin does?
StueyDuck
Member
again if you played anything these morons have made before then you know what to expect, it's gonna run like shit. heck the game currently barely runs without issues and it's been around for years already.
either way that trailer really doesn't look that impressive, things clipping through ground, floaty characters, looks like the same shit but with vaseline smeared all over it.
So its not Ark 2 then?
Im assuming they updated from UE4 to UE5 the GI looks to be dynamic in certain shots.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I thought we established just yesterday that thou shalt not be able to enjoy next gen moments/features in games that are not 100% next gen at all times.
The difference is that i still consider horizon a crossgen game, you may want to read again all your praises\comparisons to spidey 2 if you think we are one the same level.
Also i don't consider any graphical feature in sp2 worth of being called nextgen, i wasn't even a fan of the first reveal and the game doesn't even look that good...
The improvement in the light system is noticeable because spidey 1 wasn't exactly famous for his light system, but what about last gen games with good light systems? would you say that spidey 2 lights are a generation better than i don't know, tlou2 or rdr2 when the lights look good like saint denis? does it look better than cyberpunk before path tracing or even psycho mode?
Some things are downright worse like some models.
I don't consider fast traversal as graphic, more like gameplay, and i have no problem saying that the traversal is nextgen, but then again, i don't play racing games, not flight games nor spaceship games nor wipeout type of games so i don't know if the speed is actually nextgen or not, it feels nextgen compared to spidey 2018.
Let's just agree that this discussion looks incredible and nextgen and march forward.
He is being sarcastic lol, man said this is what he will do for current releases even if they arent impressive.
GymWolf
Gold Member
As i said, the creature rendering is the stand out, i have no idea how you didn't noticed the rocks\wood structure\water\human models mehness.I love how this $40 remaster looks more next gen than $70 next gen games from Sony and MS first party studios.
It's coming out later today on PC. Fuck Spiderman. I am spending the night with vin diesel.
I feel like having great vegetation is gonna be a standard for any decent looking open world, it seems like the easiest thing to achieve, i mean except the incredible looking sp2.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
it doesn't.I love how this $40 remaster looks more next gen than $70 next gen games from Sony and MS first party studios.
It's coming out later today on PC. Fuck Spiderman. I am spending the night with vin diesel.
Vegetation is always used to easily impress. ARK is shit. Some good models before downgrade dont change that
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Only thing that stood out was animations which I called out. the rest is whatever. i dont focus too much on negatives as long as overall the game looks next gen and this looks better than anything ive played so far.
thats fair. im not discussing the quality of the game. im sure its trash. i didnt even know this game already existed and was getting remastered. just surprised by the visual fidelity.
If its fake, i will be here tonight batching about it.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
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Yeah I agree.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
GymWolf
Gold Member
No wait, i want to watch the trailer again in the 4k oled, first watch was on the shitty pc monitor.
Maybe i missed something.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I watched it on a shitty pc monitor too. at 1440p youtube resolution because my work pc cant handle 4k youtube streaming. its the fidelity that jumps out immediately.
arkhamguy123
Member
Because it’s not
StueyDuck
Member
the original game (and the pirate game, atlas i think it was called) was marketed the same way, amazing visuals and they make it look really massive and expansive, then you dive in and nothing works and those visuals look kind of shit when you aren't in the hand picked areas used for the trailers, and get ready for essentially non AI. They are worse than MMO mobs, fish will just float in the air out of the water and if you come withing any creatures radius it attacks.
plus the devs refuse to fix the base game and only put updates into Paid DLC and promise the world to never deliver, thats without even getting into the whole atlas game fiasco which was just a copy paste reskin of ark and never really worked properly ever.
i'd say don't get your hopes up with this one.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Well i literally agree with 99% of what you just said so there is nothing to even disagree or move on from. I feel like me calling a game next gen makes people think im talking about the graphics when Im simply talking about other cpu and ssd related features. I dont know how many times i have to shit on spidermans buildings and character models for you to see that.
I would say their lighting upgrade is on par with what we saw in the HZD to HFW jump so maybe it might have been possible last gen. its targeting native 4k just like horizon fw so sure. Doesnt mean its not an upgrade. Same goes for the trees, rt reflections, and yes, water. I had people calling it DLC so of course I got butthurt and defended it. All i said was that its a massive upgrade in visuals and it created all this drama.
I have always talked about destruction, physics, NPC, traffic and weather simulations, as part of graphics fidelity. I think they belong in this topic so when a game does something next gen while failing graphically, I am going to give credit where its due.
The thing about AW2 is, while the lighting tech itself is clearly next gen and the VFX is clearly next gen, including the cloth tech. The game as a whole does not have the visual fidelity of a next gen game.
If we are to believe everything we are told about the tech (mesh shader, baby path tracing, control's destruction).
Then the fault lies squarely on the environment and lighting artists.
You call the PS5 UE5 demo a corridor. But this game is as corridor as they get. All remedy games are corridors.
Quatum Break was a corridor. Control was a corridor (litterally took place in rooms of a house).
AW2 is also a corridor.
Infact the launch gameplay they showed in the Xbox showcase was in a house, lit by one light source.
There weren't anything there that looked impressive or even scary. Then they walk outside and again pitch black and a bright VFX source. This is that's the problem with Remedy.
They think next gen = visual effects. It isn't.
Compare that with say this. This was AI generated. Notice the interesting lighting and the mood the lighting casted.
Now imagine the player character slow walking on this street and then going next to that car and then investigating behind that house and entering it. Notice the level of asset density
The entire scene would be scary, just from the realism of it, especially with added music.
But no....they rather molest the screen with stupid VFX and bland environment and lighting.
Literally it looks like the entire game takes place in pitch darkness.
As others said, they should have baked the lighting and saved huge on performance.
So no the problem isn't their individual tech.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I just can't get behind some of your praises man
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Remedy has great artists so while that AI screenshot looks good, I think I am going to reserve my judgement until after playing the game. I think the lighting looks striking in the night time city area as well as the deserted town/wilderness which has a more cloudy look, but gives off a very moody vibe.The thing about AW2 is, while the lighting tech itself is clearly next gen and the VFX is clearly next gen, including the cloth tech. The game as a whole does not have the visual fidelity of a next gen game.
If we are to believe everything we are told about the tech (mesh shader, baby path tracing, control's destruction).
Then the fault lies squarely on the environment and lighting artists.
You call the PS5 UE5 demo a corridor. But this game is as corridor as they get. All remedy games are corridors.
Quatum Break was a corridor. Control was a corridor (litterally took place in rooms of a house).
AW2 is also a corridor.
Infact the launch gameplay they showed in the Xbox showcase was in a house, lit by one light source.
There weren't anything there that looked impressive or even scary. Then they walk outside and again pitch black and a bright VFX source. This is that's the problem with Remedy.
They think next gen = visual effects. It isn't.
Compare that with say this. This was AI generated. Notice the interesting lighting and the mood the lighting casted.
Now imagine the player character slow walking on this street and then going next to that car and then investigating behind that house and entering it. Notice the level of asset density
The entire scene would be scary, just from the realism of it, especially with added music.
But no....they rather molest the screen with stupid VFX and bland environment and lighting.
Literally it looks like the entire game takes place in pitch darkness.
As others said, they should have baked the lighting and saved huge on performance.
So no the problem isn't their individual tech.
I think there is a key difference between control and alan wake. its indoors vs outdoors. UE5 was literally inside a cave then a corridor before opening up to a bigger area. But I wouldnt say the levels we have seen are smallish. They are larger like TLOU2 and when comparing the two, you will instantly notice the difference in visual fidelity. And TLOU2 is a late gen game arguably the best looking game of last gen. So for Remedy to easily surpass it on their first try this gen is an achievement.
Thats fine. I wouldnt have it any other way. If we all agreed with each all the time, this thread would become an era circle jerk.I just can't get behind some of your praises man
Lethal01
Member
Appear? Hybrid approaches are what we are using right now.
Yeah simply put. That and plus draw distance and the fact that you don't have fog blocking everything.
But I'm gonna focus on the lighting in the caves.
Alot of people have pointed out the lighting failures of lord of the fallen, Remnant 2, etc. Even with lumen.
But that's because those devs decided not to actually light their scenes. Even with lumen GI you still have to individually target lights to each section of your scene. But I guess they thought turning on lumen or whatever they ended up using was enough. This is why their cave scenes for example looks bland with completely even light.
But if Ark is a scam and the video are fake then they spent all their money getting lighting artists to light these scenes.
Each of these cave scene are beautifully light and follow general lighting rules.
The rule of thumb for example is for each scene to have at-least 2-3 different light colors.
One primary color, one secondary color and then a accent color.
If you paid attention to the PS5 UE5 demo, you also saw this in the caves, they would have different light sources on different side creating contrast (on top from ceiling, on the left top side in between rocks, etc).
Ark does the same thing.
I would also note that Ark is doing some kind of post-process color bleeding in addition, as it looks very artistic and not very realistic
Figure 1: Most people would think that its the directional sun light that is causing this yellow bright glow. But most likely the directional light is set to overcast white and this is an additional spot light that has been added to create an interesting look.
Figure 2: There are five or more lights here using 3 distinct colors. There's the spot light up ahead in the ceiling with volumetric fog. Then There's another warm glow spot light to the crevice to the left, then there's the red torch light that the player is carrying. Then there's the warm blue light to the right and another yellow light to the right.
Figure 3: White ceiling light, blue lights and red lights and then yellow light to the top right.
Figure 4: Ceiling white light
Figure 5:
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Burning Shores is still the best looking game of the year overall. It’s the most well rounded release. Animations, facial animations, lighting, foliage density, texture quality, art, water physics, small amounts of destruction, NPC detail, natural weather changes, best clouds in gaming, etc. every aspect of the visual presentation is done at a high level.
It’s the most well rounded release of the year visually. Some games might do one or two things better. But none offer a complete package
It’s the most well rounded release of the year visually. Some games might do one or two things better. But none offer a complete package
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