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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

After rewatching this several times… I have no idea how this is supposed to run on something like series s. I don’t care what you do. An open world like gta, with all the shit it has going on under the hood - that looks like that? Seems impossible to me. Legitimately impossible.

Rockstar have always been pioneers in engine data streaming technology, they'll find a way with Series S. I'm also pretty sure they're the same people who convinced Cerny to plonk in a 5.5 GB/s into the PS5, it will likely be the best selling game on that platform.
 

Hugare

Member
To me the GTA trailer is "in-engine", and not representative of gameplay

Its as representative of gameplay as this trailer was for Cyberpunk



Graphics are representative of what you get during gameplay, but NPCs arent as unique, animations arent as good, streets arent as packed and etc.

Same thing with GTA VI. Graphics will be the same, I bet, but animations and NPCs were made by hand to look as impressive as possible during the trailer.

"Oh but Rockstar always shows gameplay footage in their trailers", I know. I was there when GTA IV was announced up to RDR 2. But it was never this "perfect". And I fear that with one of the Houser's gone and the Benz, they are facing some problems and may have "lied" with this trailer for the first time.

If they pull it off (and I'm hoping for them to nail it), then goddamn, it will be the most impressive looking game ever made for years to come. 'Cause it would be a quantum leap in terms of NPC behaviour and animations.

But right now,

Meryl Streep Doubt GIF


And I would rather be careful than hyping myself to disappointment later on

We will see when actual gameplay comes out
 
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alloush

Member
red_dead_redemption_2_horse_gallop.gif


vs

JIJDGol.gif



They’re hard to compare because different settings but that’s a generational leap in my eyes.
RDR2 is my favorite game of all time and for me it was the best looking game last gen and still holds to this day but goddamn does it look outdated compared to GTA6. First time ever I feel RDR2 looks outdated.

SiLNv.png


Insane interiors

SiLN3.png


Look at that guy taking pic of that girls ass on the right, lmao
Finally NPCs have different models and physique builds and they dont all have the same height and physical attributes only told apart by their facial appearance.

Has there ever been such a unanimous or at least overwhelming consensus like this in the graphics thread?

This is a watershed moment for this thread and current gen in general.
No, never. Not even God's demo The Matrix Awakens was able to unite people over here the way GTA6 did.

they are both perfect. She's super fucking hot. He's your cool average hollywood type. Both are oozing charisma. Every shot of them walking with bandanas on is perfect. this will be the game of forever if they take the story seriously like rdr2 which is exactly where i feel like this is heading.
She reminds me of Letty Ortiz from the Fast and Furious series!

Interesting coincidence that rockstar, who has all the money in the world and doesn’t need/want blackrock cash, has attractive female protagonist and ass and titties all over their trailer whereas every other second rate dev out there panders and sells out to wokeness. Really interesting coincidence
The answer is in your post. Rockstar don't give two shits about wokeness, their game will sell tens of millions of copies regardless. The same cannot be said of the other studios who cater to different crowds to sell their game.

my friend keeps asking me what would happen if you start shooting up the beach. how would each of these NPCs react? honestly, i have no idea but its going to be madness.
Your friend is a psychopath! That's the first thing that came to his mind when he saw the trailer? :messenger_winking_tongue:
 
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alloush

Member
So of course it had to be the day I work late for the first time in ages the new GTA6 trailer comes out after over 10 years of waiting and hell breaks loose. Trying to catch the hell up!
 

Xtib81

Member
Look, I'm trying to be optimistic here but I can't see how this is gonna run on current machines without any downgrade. It looks way too good and even better than anything that's running on PC.
 

CGNoire

Member
Dude what are you piping?

No AI involved at all, simply some good hair strand physics.
Maybe....but thats a shit ton of strands to calculate across that many people. Theres been tons of research into AI methods lately that optimize hair physics significantly and could explain the sheer scale of use here.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I know you were erring on the size of caution with the level of fidelity to expect from GTA VI but you have to be impressed with what's been shown?
They slightly surpassed my expectations fidelity wise but to me the city/npcs simulation was always the thing to look out for.

Like if we go frame per frame i'm sure there is lot of non-perfect assets and character details that are not on par with other games, but the believability of the whole package make me forget any graphical flaw.

The fact that it also smash spidey 2 and kinda smash cyberpunk is just the ice on the cake, but i kinda expect some downgrade.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
That part with the mud and the flamingos really look straight out of rdr2 swamps (an upgraded version of course)

Curious to see their water, sand and mud tech, sand tech in horizon 2 was underwhelming (it was just yellow snow basically)
 
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They slightly surpassed my expectations fidelity wise but to me the city/npcs simulation was always the thing to look out for.

Like if we go frame per frame i'm sure there is lot of non-perfect assets and character details that are not on par with other games, but the believability of the whole package make me forget any graphical flaw.

The fact that it also smash spidey 2 and kinda smash cyberpunk is just the ice on the cake, but i kinda expect some downgrade.
I don't think we'll see a downgrade Rockstar are not known to downgrade but maybe a few things will change from now to release.

What has surprised me is the density of NPC'S and vehicles, and the sheer scale on offer at the graphical level they are achieving.

Suffice to say this generation will certainly live up to expectations before it draws to a end.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I don't think we'll see a downgrade Rockstar are not known to downgrade but maybe a few things will change from now to release.

What has surprised me is the density of NPC'S and vehicles, and the sheer scale on offer at the graphical level they are achieving.

Suffice to say this generation will certainly live up to expectations before it draws to a end.
The graphic itself is not THAT otherworldy to be impossible, so they are probably gonna maintain this level, but some animations, hair tech, and just sheer amount of npcs doing different stuff so organically may be get some cuts here and there, we can only wait.
 
They slightly surpassed my expectations fidelity wise but to me the city/npcs simulation was always the thing to look out for.

Like if we go frame per frame i'm sure there is lot of non-perfect assets and character details that are not on par with other games, but the believability of the whole package make me forget any graphical flaw.

The fact that it also smash spidey 2 and kinda smash cyberpunk is just the ice on the cake, but i kinda expect some downgrade.
Broken down into its parts the tech actually isn`t that remarkable, certainly doesn´t come close to something like CP2077`s OD f.e.
The hair and water simulation definitely stood out a bit but the rest, the incredible density with everything and their mothers having their own animations and detailed assets, that was a sheer "LOOK AT MY HILARIOUS BUDGET"-situation rather than a tech-showcase. The amount of manhours that must go into creating all that for an open world game is beyond my imagination.

However, the game`s 1,5-2 years away and all we saw were in-engine cutscenes. It´s pure PR at this point, so who knows.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Broken down into its parts the tech actually isn`t that remarkable, certainly doesn´t come close to something like CP2077`s OD f.e.
The hair and water simulation definitely stood out a bit but the rest, the incredible density with everything and their mothers having their own animations and detailed assets, that was a sheer "LOOK AT MY HILARIOUS BUDGET"-situation rather than a tech-showcase. The amount of manhours that must go into creating all that for an open world game is beyond my imagination.

However, the game`s 1,5-2 years away and all we saw were in-engine cutscenes. It´s pure PR at this point, so who knows.
I don't care if they downgrade the graphic, their prority is to maintain everything else the same (and that is probably the hardest part)

As you say, when people analyze the trailer frame per frame you can see that fidelity wise it's not all quite perfect.



(still impressive of course)
 
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RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
its the combination of so many things in a R* game that makes their worlds come alive, jesus if that walk along the beach is indicative of actual gameplay and theres nothing to say it isnt as we all know how utterly hyper detailed R* are about the small incidental stuff that goes on around you.. that single shot utterly shits all over Cyberpunk and its lifeless world
 
If we get Death Stranding 2 gameplay this week at TGA, and maybe even the Metro Exodus sequel then it's going to be a triple threat next-gen goodness showcase!

Oh yeahh baby!
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lmao you need to watch more cg from this century dude.

He really look like arthur in the car shot, they could have made him a bit more different.
sigh.

Watch the cyberpunk cg trailer im literally refrerring to in my post. wouldve taken you two seconds to search it up.

xoMWv5c.jpg
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Look, I'm trying to be optimistic here but I can't see how this is gonna run on current machines without any downgrade. It looks way too good and even better than anything that's running on PC.
PC is mostly running souped up last gen games. Most devs are adding RT or PT to their games and calling it a day trying to convince people to think that PT is what makes games next gen. Well, rockstar just took a literal shit on cyberpunk, alan wake and other PT and RTGI games. There is more to graphics than ray tracing.

There will be a downgrade but only because this is a cutscene trailer where everything has been properly lit and shadows. Expect a naughty dog style cutscene to gameplay downgrade. The camera work here is stunning as well, and you wont get choreographed movement like this during gameplay.

To me the GTA trailer is "in-engine", and not representative of gameplay

Its as representative of gameplay as this trailer was for Cyberpunk



Graphics are representative of what you get during gameplay, but NPCs arent as unique, animations arent as good, streets arent as packed and etc.

Same thing with GTA VI. Graphics will be the same, I bet, but animations and NPCs were made by hand to look as impressive as possible during the trailer.

"Oh but Rockstar always shows gameplay footage in their trailers", I know. I was there when GTA IV was announced up to RDR 2. But it was never this "perfect". And I fear that with one of the Houser's gone and the Benz, they are facing some problems and may have "lied" in their trailers for the first time.

If they pull it off (and I'm hoping for them to nail it), then goddamn, it will be the most impressive looking game ever made for years to come. 'Cause it would be a quantum leap in terms of NPC behaviour and animations.

But right now,

Meryl Streep Doubt GIF


And I would rather be careful than hyping myself to disappointment later on

We will see when actual gameplay comes out

CD Project are the king of downgrades. Rockstar isnt. That trailer from CD Project was clearly pre-rendered. The first gameplay was shown behind closed doors immediately after and was leaked. So its not like we didnt realize what the game was going to look like during gameplay.

Rockstar has shown snippets of the game world. Touched up and in cutscene form, but its still realtime and taken from the game world whereas that cyberpunk trailer is pre-rendered and made exclusively for the trailer.
 
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It's pretty crazy to know that GTA 6 is probably close to 100% complete. And that the next 18 months will be used to refine the game over and over again until it is near perfect. No other studio is given that luxury.

And If Rockstar can flawlessly optimize the Xbox One S to play RDR2 than I think it's very realistic they can do the same with these next generation consoles. Nobody has the unlimited resources to make it all work like this game has
 

Hugare

Member
PC is mostly running souped up last gen games. Most devs are adding RT or PT to their games and calling it a day trying to convince people to think that PT is what makes games next gen. Well, rockstar just took a literal shit on cyberpunk, alan wake and other PT and RTGI games. There is more to graphics than ray tracing.

There will be a downgrade but only because this is a cutscene trailer where everything has been properly lit and shadows. Expect a naughty dog style cutscene to gameplay downgrade. The camera work here is stunning as well, and you wont get choreographed movement like this during gameplay.


CD Project are the king of downgrades. Rockstar isnt. That trailer from CD Project was clearly pre-rendered. The first gameplay was shown behind closed doors immediately after and was leaked. So its not like we didnt realize what the game was going to look like during gameplay.

Rockstar has shown snippets of the game world. Touched up and in cutscene form, but its still realtime and taken from the game world whereas that cyberpunk trailer is pre-rendered and made exclusively for the trailer.

Have anything to back up your claim? 'Cause CDPR does

pOaJjS0.png


Game engine = In-engine

So no, not pre rendered. If you've played the game you can spot many of the tech used in the game during the trailer.


"CD Project are the king of downgrades", you say





Rockstar has shown snippets of the game world. Touched up and in cutscene form, but its still realtime and taken from the game world whereas that cyberpunk trailer is pre-rendered and made exclusively for the trailer.

Again, anything to back up your claim? Despite "all R* trailers in the past used realtime graphics" that I've already mentioned in my original post and explained why I may doubt that they are doing it this time?
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Have anything to back up your claim? 'Cause CDPR does

pOaJjS0.png


Game engine = In-engine

So no, not pre rendered. If you've played the game you can spot many of the tech used in the game during the trailer.


"CD Project are the king of downgrades", you say







Again, anything to back up your claim? Despite "all R* trailers in the past used realtime graphics" that I've already mentioned in my original post and explained why I may doubt that they are doing it this time?

The term Game engine footage is used in most trailers that are not realtime. Look like the first hellblade 2 trailer. The first Avatar trailer. Its code for pre-rendered.

If it was realtime, they would say realtime.

And yes, ive posted that same video here in this very thread numerous times. But i also reference the gameplay reveal video in my post. We immediately knew the gameplay was not going to look like that reveal trailer.
The first gameplay was shown behind closed doors immediately after and was leaked. So its not like we didnt realize what the game was going to look like during gameplay.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is a good comparison with GTA5. Shows that there is a generational leap over the PS3 game but we are two generations ahead of PS3 now. Im not saying I expected better but this isnt some completely outlandish target that they cant achieve.



The biggest upgrade is in NPCs and just how populated it is and thats that CPU bump we've been waiting for. But in terms of actual graphics, this is pretty doable this gen.
 

Hugare

Member
The term Game engine footage is used in most trailers that are not realtime. Look like the first hellblade 2 trailer. The first Avatar trailer. Its code for pre-rendered.

If it was realtime, they would say realtime.

And yes, ive posted that same video here in this very thread numerous times. But i also reference the gameplay reveal video in my post. We immediately knew the gameplay was not going to look like that reveal trailer.
You are having a hard time understanding the difference between in-engine = ingame. Who said it was realtime? Me?

No, it's not code for pre-rendered. It's code for game engine. Which means "rendered with the game engine"

You can have a pre-rendered in-engine trailer. You just have to, you know, pre-render the trailer that you captured in-engine.

Or you can have pre-rendered trailers using CGI, like some cutscenes in FF VII Remake

The Cyberpunk trailer was pre-rendered using game engine. And so was the GTA VI trailer, I believe.



This video, for example. It's a tv show bit that you can watch in many Tv's in the game.

See how they animate perfectly? And it's a far cry from what we see during actual gameplay? Despite using ingame graphics? This is what I'm claiming the GTA VI trailer to be

Now my fear is that people will watch the trailer for GTA VI and get mindblown by the interactions, NPCs and etc., and in the final game they animate more like RDR 2 characters
 
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CGNoire

Member
This is a good comparison with GTA5. Shows that there is a generational leap over the PS3 game but we are two generations ahead of PS3 now. Im not saying I expected better but this isnt some completely outlandish target that they cant achieve.



The biggest upgrade is in NPCs and just how populated it is and thats that CPU bump we've been waiting for. But in terms of actual graphics, this is pretty doable this gen.

..but the real question is ...where is boob and ass soft body physics?

I was also hoping for BeamNG level car destruction and deformation. I thought they where gonna bring it with the soft body physics this time. I guess everyone haveing hair physics will have to do.
 

mansoor1980

Member
..but the real question is ...where is boob and ass soft body physics?

I was also hoping for BeamNG level car destruction and deformation. I thought they where gonna bring it with the soft body physics this time. I guess everyone haveing hair physics will have to do.
boob and ass physics are present
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Timestamp please....cause i watched that shit at 25% speed and those titties be solid as a rock.
there is jiggle in the gif of that girl twerking on the roof of the car. not sure about tits.

You are having a hard time understanding the difference between in-engine = ingame. Who said it was realtime? Me?

No, it's not code for pre-rendered. It's code for game engine. Which means "rendered with the game engine"

You can have a pre-rendered in-engine trailer. You just have to, you know, pre-render the trailer that you captured in-engine.

Or you can have pre-rendered trailers using CGI, like some cutscenes in FF VII Remake

The Cyberpunk trailer was pre-rendered using game engine. And so was the GTA VI trailer, I believe.



This video, for example. It's a tv show bit that you can watch in many Tv's in the game.

See how they animate perfectly? And it's a far cry from what we see during actual gameplay? Despite using ingame graphics? This is what I'm claiming the GTA VI trailer to be

Now my fear is that people will watch the trailer for GTA VI and get mindblown by the interactions, NPCs and etc., and in the final game they animate more like RDR 2 characters

Yeah, I know the difference. DICE makes all their battlefield trailers using the game engine but like you said, they can be pre-rendered. You can easily tell what trailer is pre-rendered and what isnt. That original Hellblade 2 trailer was clearly pre-rendered using game engine. Same goes for cybperunk and the battlefield trailers. Rockstar is using cutscene quality lighting and shadows on all the gameplay shots in the trailer, but they are all things taken from the game world. When you're walking around that club, it will not feel that cinematic. There are at least three story cutscenes in that trailer that dont look pre-rendered. Thats just how i expect those cutscenes to look in the final game. The gameplay shots of NPCs will not look like that because they wont have the lighting, the DoF or the camera composition we are seeing in these cutscenes.

I guess neither of us knows the truth but ive been watching these so-called game engine trailers for a long time, and they have a distinct pre-rendered look. This is cutscene quality footage.
 

Audiophile

Member
Something that's really important on the GTAVI trailer is the softness. Aside from hair alpha and that chainlink fence, everything is clean yet soft; lending it somewhat pre-rendered look. RDR2 did this really nicely.

If you look at the very best animated movie content even, softness is part of the design,.....too sharp and it overloads the senses, looking uncanny.

A lot of other titles are either pin sharp, coarse and harsh looking or low res and smeared with loads of temporal instability.

R* since RDR2 have also done a wonderful job of simulating light interacting with the atmosphere at distance. It really gels everything together.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
sigh.

Watch the cyberpunk cg trailer im literally refrerring to in my post. wouldve taken you two seconds to search it up.

xoMWv5c.jpg
I know you are talking about the trailer, my doubt was if you were talking about his look or graphic wise.

Because yeah it look kinda like him (i still think that shot is basically arthur with a different haircut) but graphically, he doesn't exactly look cutting edge.
(Chest hair was good tho :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
yhey7qixed4c1.jpg



To me this is the most impressive shot of the trailer.

When you realize EVERY NPC has different clothing and is a unique design. This has got to be some type of AI tech being generated.
Why is this impressive? The good thing here is that the art direction is great with skin tones being on point but this is very cross-gen looking. There's are less than 100 characters rendered on screen, I counted. I'm going to catch some flack for this but this is a souped up Uncharted 4 at a larger scale in terms of graphics. I don't think it's next gen but that's just me. It looks like a game that started development for PS4 with the intention on being released on ps4 then it got souped up.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Interesting coincidence that rockstar, who has all the money in the world and doesn’t need/want blackrock cash, has attractive female protagonist and ass and titties all over their trailer whereas every other second rate dev out there panders and sells out to wokeness. Really interesting coincidence
They out-smarted the wokes.

80% of the sexyness in the trailer consist of black women twerking in different stage of obesity, and what is the ONLY type of sexyness that woke people not only condone, but actually love?

Yep, you guessed right

twerking-she-hulk.gif

They absolute love this power move.

People who are subscribed to saturday night reeeee comedy club knows that they have multiple topics with hundreds of pages about shitting on every inch of skin or sexyness in videogames, but they ALL love gta6 trailer, a trailer possibly fuller of sexy scene than cyberpunk and jenital jousting combined.

People think that i'm exagerating but this shit can't be a fucking coincidence, rockstar played the wokes like a fiddle.

And Sofia is hot but not unrealistically beatiful like a barbie or some shit, and she is from a minority, so she can't be criticized that much.
 

DanielG165

Member
69 million views so far, and it hasn’t even been a full day. GTA 6 is the one game the entire world was waiting for.

Also, how did the reveal trailer for RDR2 look compared to to final product? That will tell you if GTA 6 will see any considerable downgrades. Though, from how insane Red Dead looks on a One X, let alone a beefy PC, I don’t expect there to be many downgrades for GTA 6.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Why is this impressive? The good thing here is that the art direction is great with skin tones being on point but this is very cross-gen looking. There's are less than 100 characters rendered on screen, I counted. I'm going to catch some flack for this but this is a souped up Uncharted 4 at a larger scale in terms of graphics. I don't think it's next gen but that's just me. It looks like a game that started development for PS4 with the intention on being released on ps4 then it got souped up.
It's impressive because of organic and varied it looks, of course the models can't be as detailed as the callisto protagonist, i would fucking love that but we are a couple of gen from that.

It feels like a prerenderd scene but you can actually walk and create chaos in there.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
69 million views so far, and it hasn’t even been a full day. GTA 6 is the one game the entire world was waiting for.

Also, how did the reveal trailer for RDR2 look compared to to final product? That will tell you if GTA 6 will see any considerable downgrades. Though, from how insane Red Dead looks on a One X, let alone a beefy PC, I don’t expect there to be many downgrades for GTA 6.


def was not downgraded
 
It's impressive because of organic and varied it looks, of course the models can't be as detailed as the callisto protagonist, i would fucking love that but we are a couple of gen from that.

It feels like a prerenderd scene but you can actually walk and create chaos in there.
It doesn't look pre-rendered to me at all. People are walking but no real time sand deformation? Girl with sunglasses is walking but no physics on necklace? Mr muscle man is jogging but he looks like a plastic model? In fact the skin shaders are pretty wrong. There's no translucency. They're on the beach yet there's absolutely no wind? Umbrellas are pretty static. The building geometry is pretty basic, even games AA games like robocop shit on it from a great height. I've watched the trailer several times and the only impressive parts are the density and simulation. From what I've seen, if this were to release right now, it can't even crack the list of top 5 best looking games.

Edit: Here's an image of a crowded beach in Miami. Noticed how all the people haven't been baptized by a priest in oil. Look at the skin, look at the sand, then compare that to the game. Not even close.
kMb48mj.png
 
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Audiophile

Member
I wish they'd upload in a 60Hz container and from a higher quality master. Compression is awful and 60 would have afforded a higher bitrate.

Even for sub-4K and 30fps, something like high bitrate ProRes 422 4K60 10-Bit should be the go to for a trailer like this.

Would be nice even if they made a higher quality encode available for download either from their site or via somewhere like gamersyde.

Heck, push the boat out and drop a HDR version too. It's not like this is some little amateur project. Why do multibillion dollar companies not value high quality handling and presentation of promo materials like this?!
 

hinch7

Member
It doesn't look pre-rendered to me at all. People are walking but no real time sand deformation? Girl with sunglasses is walking but no physics on necklace? Mr muscle man is jogging but he looks like a plastic model? In fact the skin shaders are pretty wrong. There's no translucency. They're on the beach yet there's absolutely no wind? Umbrellas are pretty static. The building geometry is pretty basic, even games AA games like robocop shit on it from a great height. I've watched the trailer several times and the only impressive parts are the density and simulation. From what I've seen, if this were to release right now, it can't even crack the list of top 5 best looking games.
With that level of detail and density and you want high quality SSS on all NPC's on current generation console hardware? I think you have to be somewhat realistic here. Also you can see the wind blow and the affects most if not all NPC's hair, and their hair sway right slightly.
 
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