I thought the 3080 could handle pt at near max settings with 1080-1440p(dlss) at 30fps.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yes. That really feels like cg in motion.
Especially noticeable when my fps on 3080 dropped to 7fps. No, really. These frames with super heavy low fps motion blur look like a damn cgi. There is this look to it. When. You go to 60 it’s almost gone
Do you think it could be because the light for the most part is acting like your subconscious expects? Stills can't really convey that, I was having a similar conversation new years eve except the person who mentioned it said he felt like path tracing always just felt right in motion. You never have that moment when you are moving through an area and then just get ripped out of the moment because something doesn't look right even if you can't explain it. For me it's normally some objects not having shadows or something is lit in a way that makes no sense from the light sources in the area. Although we both agreed when driving the aggressive poppin of shadows/objects could knock you out of the immersion like being slapped with a cold fish.
I honestly expect this to be another 60fps scenario in the future once more affordable options (like future console and low/mid range gpus) lets everyone experience it and we get even better implementations than cp2077 and portal rtx.
RJMacready73
Banned
Jesus H Keeerist... I gotta say that looks insane, first time I've seen justification for buying a 4090, parts of that almost look like a CGI movie
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Looks like shit.
Washed out, oversharpened, looks almost black and white.
Usual reshade crap.
What fools you is the camera movement in the beginning and car reflections
Whitecrow
Banned
I'm looking the video on a calibrated display, and the brightness and saturation of colors is a lot more close to real life that vanilla CP, which even if you love it, colors are way oversaturated for being considered realistic.
SDR cant do a lot more in terms of colors, since it's a very compressed color space and have a very small dynamic range. The 'almost black and white' you say it's because the color space. SDR just cant show vivid and saturated colors in every situation. Even HDR falls short, even if it gets a bit closer to real life.
And yes, it's oversharpened, but that have nothing to do with the colors.
Xtib81
Member
Hyperbole alert. It looks phenomenal.
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RJMacready73
Banned
I don't know what the YouTuber did to you as a kid but to these old eyes it looks incredible on my OLED tbf
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Lumpyoatmeal
Member
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
What are you taling about? It's clearly desaturated instagram filter.
Yes, SDR can do a lot more. Look at unmodded game...
No. unmodded looks better. This is crap
this desaturated reshade crap? wtf man
SlimySnake
hey. we need 3rd opinion here. Am I wrong on this one ?
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
The wrongest.
Audiophile
Member
With acceptable image quality and animation/cinematic-direction aside I legit believe around 2032-2034 on PS6 Pro or a high end PC; on a AAA-AAAA game.
There's multiple isolated elements there that we're already starting to see.
Audiophile
Member
Incredible lighting, but the modders always knob up sharpening, AA, colour-grading & specular.
Whitecrow
Banned
Saturation does not equal to realism. And doesnt matter how much saturation SDR can make if it throws all color balance off.What are you taling about? It's clearly desaturated instagram filter.
Yes, SDR can do a lot more. Look at unmodded game...
No. unmodded looks better. This is crap
this desaturated reshade crap? wtf man
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i am playing at 4k dlss performance so 1080p base resolution. If i enable dlss at 1440p, the base resolution cuts down to 720p and adds a lot of really bad ghosting artifacts and RT noise. Especially with the new ray reconstruction. i tried 1800p dlss performance which is roughly 864p but the image was too soft and smudgy. id rather do a solid 4k dlss performance which looks very clean.
it doesnt look like shit, but i dont like it either.What are you taling about? It's clearly desaturated instagram filter.
Yes, SDR can do a lot more. Look at unmodded game...
No. unmodded looks better. This is crap
this desaturated reshade crap? wtf man
your 5600x is holding it back. my 3080 with an i7-11700k almost never drops below 30 fps with medium settings and PT enabled at 4k dlss performance. even during gun fights.
upgrade to the 7800x3d and you will probably get a locked 40 fps.
Senua
Member
5800x3d so he doesn't have to upgrade the motherboard and ram. Still a big jump
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I wish. It’s only 3700x…
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Here are some comparison shots i took. the difference isnt massive between standard rasterization (RTGI off, RT reflections and shadows on) and PT but its not as dark as some of the other screenshots that have been posted.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
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Lumpyoatmeal
Member
La rasta
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
PS6, definitely PS7.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
You must have never seen something real time and made for a 4090…One thing for sure, that cinematic trailer is well beyond what 4090 is capable of, and ps6 will be roughly in same ballpark of power, hopefully bit stornger but definitely not even 50% more stronger, so ps6/ps6pr0 is out of the question to bring such a full package real time
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
This!! Drives me crazy. Like, you morons have top of the line rigs, the game runs incredibly well, why cant you show it with normal fucking colors so it actually looks its best?!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Was able to turn on Path Tracing in Alan Wake 2 after realizing I had some GPU headroom available in indoor scenes. I honestly couldnt tell the difference turning it on or off, but left it on because these smaller rooms dont have much going on and the framerate stayed above 30 in them.
Game looks phenomenal. Sucks that the gameplay is complete trash, but this game just looks insane at times.
Game looks phenomenal. Sucks that the gameplay is complete trash, but this game just looks insane at times.
Balducci30
Member
Doesn’t seem like we have that long really, some elements were there. We’d need major advancements in vfx like Fire and Water tho - the rest I feel like next gen will be close
Hugare
Member
To me this looks really, really bad. Everything is just white/gray.
Don't see what should be impressive about it. Lighting model is the same, they just removed all the colors from the game world.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
PC Horizon Forbidden West trailer. Game looks amazing a usual.
Its time PC players put some respect on this game, I find it gets under appreciated. It will stand right next to CyberPunk and the rest of the best looking PC games
Kaiserstark
Member
I would have loved to see this game with RTGI but it's probably something we will get with Horizon 3.
I'm really interested to see how the Decima Engine will evolve and Guerrilla said that they have an ambitious roadmap for their engine.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Came too late. Had it come out before Avatar, it wouldve been received much better.
No RT features is a massive disappointment after Nixxes added RT shadows and AO on top of reflections to Spiderman and Ratchet. I guess this is a straight port and they didnt have time to build RT from scratch for this game.
Lets hope modders can remove fog, pad out the draw distance and increase flying speeds.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Looks great but I can't help but feel the game itself looks a little dated already now that Avatar, Alan Wake II, and others have come out.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think it still does some things better than Avatar like water, character and cloud rendering. It also has better art direction for vistas and yes i know they mask them with fog but they still look better than Avatar's vistas despite the smaller draw distance. Its one of those games that masks its limitations rather well so I suspect a lot of PC gamers being impressed with it.
I also think it's cinematic approach to storytelling will showcase the game better to the PC audience than Avatar did which inexplicably limited all cutscenes to first person and had no movement whatsoever.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Some Alan Wake 2 Path Tracing vs Standard Rasterization comparisons.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I'm ~10 hours into Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty, maxed out settings @ 4k w/ path tracing. And idk.... It looks good, oftentimes great, but I think the praise many shower upon it here is kind of overstated.
For every scene that looks like these:
There's scenes that look like these:
... and these aren't particularly cherrypicked "bad" shots either. The whole world is littered with these low quality textures/assets. It's not hard to find.
I find that the setting/world of the game is gorgeous, but when you start peaking in closer, things start to fall apart a bit.
And I know I'll probably get some eye rolls for this, but I prefer Starfield visuals overall compared to Cyberpunk so far. Starfield is much more consistent and the image itself just has this really clean, stable appearance to it.
For every scene that looks like these:
There's scenes that look like these:
... and these aren't particularly cherrypicked "bad" shots either. The whole world is littered with these low quality textures/assets. It's not hard to find.
I find that the setting/world of the game is gorgeous, but when you start peaking in closer, things start to fall apart a bit.
And I know I'll probably get some eye rolls for this, but I prefer Starfield visuals overall compared to Cyberpunk so far. Starfield is much more consistent and the image itself just has this really clean, stable appearance to it.
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Alex11
Member
Well all games have low quality textures/assets, there is no exception.I'm ~10 hours into Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty, maxed out settings @ 4k w/ path tracing. And idk.... It looks good, oftentimes great, but I think the praise many shower upon it here is kind of overstated.
For every scene that looks like these:
There's scenes that look like these:
... and these aren't particularly cherrypicked "bad" shots either. The whole world is littered with these low quality textures/assets. It's not hard to find.
I find that the setting/world of the game is gorgeous, but when you start peaking in closer, things start to fall apart a bit.
And I know I'll probably get some eye rolls for this, but I prefer Starfield visuals overall compared to Cyberpunk so far. Starfield is much more consistent and the image itself just has this really clean, stable appearance to it.
Nothing wrong in preferring other visual styles, I actually prefer more minimalistic or slightly stylised looks, but that's the thing and you also mentioned it, I prefer.
A game's visual quality should not be judged by one's preferences.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Bare in mind, CP is a cross gen game thats over 3 years old now. While it might have gotten some next gen lighting upgrades, the asset quality is still last gen.I'm ~10 hours into Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty, maxed out settings @ 4k w/ path tracing. And idk.... It looks good, oftentimes great, but I think the praise many shower upon it here is kind of overstated.
For every scene that looks like these:
There's scenes that look like these:
... and these aren't particularly cherrypicked "bad" shots either. The whole world is littered with these low quality textures/assets. It's not hard to find.
I find that the setting/world of the game is gorgeous, but when you start peaking in closer, things start to fall apart a bit.
And I know I'll probably get some eye rolls for this, but I prefer Starfield visuals overall compared to Cyberpunk so far. Starfield is much more consistent and the image itself just has this really clean, stable appearance to it.
Its still higher than something like Spiderman 2 though. Especially the buildings and cars. Just the world is littered with a lot of low res assets because they were still targeting last gen platforms.
Starfield also takes a lot of shortcuts to get those higher level models. They have loading for every single interior you enter, and the outdoor world has its own share of low quality assets. Cyberpunk has seamless entry into interiors which no doubt posed limitations for a game designed to run on HDDs. Starfield is essentially a linear corridor game with an outdoor world that is effectively just for show.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
All good points. I just don't understand why Phantom Liberty appears to be the consensus "best looking game of 2023" from many here in that case. It's just not, IMO.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ray tracing!!
I was watching their 2020 video and they picked Spiderman Miles over TLOU2, Ghost and Demon Souls remakes i shit you not. Im like its literally the same game, same map as the 2018 game but now it has ray tracing so its the second best looking game of the year behind CP?
I think DLCs shouldnt even be included in the GOTY conversation. They are using the same assets, same engine, same lighting model, same animations. In CP's case, they switched from ray tracing to path tracing which apparently warrants another inclusion but I just dont agree. If HFW's PC port came out with RT, should we include a 2 year old game over new games just because they slapped on RT?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It's not just DF either. Look at the PC screenshot thread poll here. Phantom Liberty is the runaway winner for "Best Looking Game of 2023".
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
A Naughty Dog engineer who previously worked at Rockstar said something that might help explain whats happening at ND. He said that he was part of their graphics programming team only 30 gpeople strong. In comparison, Rockstar had 30 programmers work on just one aspect of the game, such as climbing. They had multiple programming teams in charge of various different aspects.
I think ND is simply too small to release games with next gen features 3-5 years. It's probably why TLOU1 had no support for next gen features like dynamic GI, mesh shaders, or ray tracing. The team simply doesnt have the manpower to add all this stuff to their engine.
It's something Ive been saying for a while, but Sony first party studios simply need to move to UE5. Their studios dont have the resources to retool their engines with next gen features. We saw this with Spiderman 2 where the insomniac tech director admitted that they didnt have the time to add dynamic GI, and from the leaks it looks like its something that will be added to Wolverine some 6 years after the launch of Sony's next gen console.
Meanwhile B and C tier third party studios have already managed to release games with nanite and lumen in 2023. Sucker Punch who also manage their own engine have not shown a single screenshot of their next game. Same goes for SSM, Bend, and Bluepoint.
I think it might be time to leave these custom engines behind. Or adopt one engine like Decima and create a massive team of hundreds of engineers who simply work on adding new features to these engines as needed.
Of course, Remedy is a similar sized studio and was able to add mesh shader support, and RTGI while producing a next gen looking game in just 4 years so maybe Sony first party studios are simply poorly managed.
I think ND is simply too small to release games with next gen features 3-5 years. It's probably why TLOU1 had no support for next gen features like dynamic GI, mesh shaders, or ray tracing. The team simply doesnt have the manpower to add all this stuff to their engine.
It's something Ive been saying for a while, but Sony first party studios simply need to move to UE5. Their studios dont have the resources to retool their engines with next gen features. We saw this with Spiderman 2 where the insomniac tech director admitted that they didnt have the time to add dynamic GI, and from the leaks it looks like its something that will be added to Wolverine some 6 years after the launch of Sony's next gen console.
Meanwhile B and C tier third party studios have already managed to release games with nanite and lumen in 2023. Sucker Punch who also manage their own engine have not shown a single screenshot of their next game. Same goes for SSM, Bend, and Bluepoint.
I think it might be time to leave these custom engines behind. Or adopt one engine like Decima and create a massive team of hundreds of engineers who simply work on adding new features to these engines as needed.
Of course, Remedy is a similar sized studio and was able to add mesh shader support, and RTGI while producing a next gen looking game in just 4 years so maybe Sony first party studios are simply poorly managed.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Best graphics are best graphics…if its a game and it looks better than the rest, include it..but I don’t even think Spiderman with RT Beats TLOU 2…
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Sony should design one engine for all of their games. Call it the “Sony Tools”, it would have nanite like features, RTGI, hair simulation, physics, cloth simulation, everything for any type of game…have all their 1st party dev knowledge poured into the engine..
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The problem with that is that HFW and Callisto DLCs would beat out 90% of the games this year just like cyberpunk did. I think its fair to include them in Game of the Generation lists but yearly lists should be about new games.
Yep. Decima is already being used by KojiPro and GG simultaneously with both studios making their own commits and improving the engine. Until Dawn looked absolutely gorgeous on Decima too. Say what you will about EA's struggles with Frostbite but its produced some stunning looking games since the initial struggles. NFS, Anthem, Dead Space, Battlefront, Battlefield all looked stunning. Besides, unlike Frostbite which was a first person engine, Decima has already supported first person and third person linear games, third person action adventure games, games with dialogue trees, fancy motion and facial capture tech etc. So the migration effort wouldnt be that complicated.
Everyone hates that CD project is leaving the RED engine behind but even they realized that their 500 person studio cant handle doing these things from scratch.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Not saying you can't fault it or any game for having low res/inconsistent assets but then just say that, don't call it a "scene" when you just have a wall or sole object in front of you obscuring everything else and the scale evident in the first few shots that have such assets too but overall still look great.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I replayed HL2 at the end of December and I noticed how good the water/reflections look.
So clear and sharp compared to rt crap. Dynamic objects too, so it's not cube maps. Must be planar reflections.
So why can't new games do planer reflections if it was possible in 2004 ?
I realize it's just flat texture but couldn't this technique be worked upon? No ssr, no rt crap. Just solid reflections. So solid, I never thought about it before.
And every single water spot/container in the game is perfect. not only boat level.
So clear and sharp compared to rt crap. Dynamic objects too, so it's not cube maps. Must be planar reflections.
So why can't new games do planer reflections if it was possible in 2004 ?
I realize it's just flat texture but couldn't this technique be worked upon? No ssr, no rt crap. Just solid reflections. So solid, I never thought about it before.
And every single water spot/container in the game is perfect. not only boat level.
winjer
Member
I replayed HL2 at the end of December and I noticed how good the water/reflections look.
So clear and sharp compared to rt crap. Dynamic objects too, so it's not cube maps. Must be planar reflections.
So why can't new games do planer reflections if it was possible in 2004 ?
I realize it's just flat texture but couldn't this technique be worked upon? No ssr, no rt crap. Just solid reflections. So solid, I never thought about it before.
And every single water spot/container in the game is perfect. not only boat level.
I think HL2 uses a mix of several reflection methods. Such as planar reflections and parallax corrected cubemaps.
Planar reflections are similar to SSR, but they render the level again from the direction of the reflection. So they have a perspective corrected look, but they are also heavier than SSR.
Parallax corrected cubemaps, are just cubemaps that are perspective corrected in relation to the pov of the player. But because they are just cubemaps, any change to the level requires making new cubemaps. And it can't reflect the player or moving objects and NPCs.
And yes, they look good for the performance they bring.
Balducci30
Member
Yeah reflection wise this looked good enough to me. Dunno why they don’t just do this more and focus on the simulation aspect of waterI replayed HL2 at the end of December and I noticed how good the water/reflections look.
So clear and sharp compared to rt crap. Dynamic objects too, so it's not cube maps. Must be planar reflections.
So why can't new games do planer reflections if it was possible in 2004 ?
I realize it's just flat texture but couldn't this technique be worked upon? No ssr, no rt crap. Just solid reflections. So solid, I never thought about it before.
And every single water spot/container in the game is perfect. not only boat level.