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[SlimySnake]

This is what's left in their engines so far. Although Spiderman 2 does have some flawless world streaming so I wonder if there's already proof that primitive shaders are in active use.

they had several interviews with DF and didnt mention Primitive shaders IIRC. I think its just that there assets are still ps4 quality so its very easy to stream them in and out at high speeds. that was one of the first ps5 demos that was leaked so clearly they were working directly with cerny all the way back in 2019 in regards to their streaming tech.

call me when they can get black myth caliber assets in an open world like spiderman 2.

Beautiful. Now they should take the $$$ they just earned and implement HDR in time for me to enjoy on the Pro.

space marine is lacking HDR too. i think they are following the rockstar model and grading the game in SDR for artistic reasons. been playing black myth without hdr and just like rdr2, its visuals are among the best ever even without hdr.

this particular scene would probably pop more in hdr but it looks perfect as it is.

The desert area looked phenomenal. Bright as fuck with great bounce lighting off all kinds of surfaces we just didnt see last gen. only star wars jedi's desert area comes close.

 

[RodriGames40]

they had several interviews with DF and didnt mention Primitive shaders IIRC. I think its just that there assets are still ps4 quality so its very easy to stream them in and out at high speeds. that was one of the first ps5 demos that was leaked so clearly they were working directly with cerny all the way back in 2019 in regards to their streaming tech.

call me when they can get black myth caliber assets in an open world like spiderman 2.

That definitely tracks. If they weren't even using primitive shaders there's legitimately a lot Sony studios can pull off this gen, then... No idea when will those games come out, but this might explain how DS2 is seemingly so ahead of everything they have put out geometry density wise. Both Avatar and Outlaws are leveraging them exclusively on consoles, you can definitely tell a big difference.

 

[Flabagast]

they had several interviews with DF and didnt mention Primitive shaders IIRC. I think its just that there assets are still ps4 quality so its very easy to stream them in and out at high speeds. that was one of the first ps5 demos that was leaked so clearly they were working directly with cerny all the way back in 2019 in regards to their streaming tech.

call me when they can get black myth caliber assets in an open world like spiderman 2.

space marine is lacking HDR too. i think they are following the rockstar model and grading the game in SDR for artistic reasons. been playing black myth without hdr and just like rdr2, its visuals are among the best ever even without hdr.

this particular scene would probably pop more in hdr but it looks perfect as it is.

The desert area looked phenomenal. Bright as fuck with great bounce lighting off all kinds of surfaces we just didnt see last gen. only star wars jedi's desert area comes close.

After playing Black Myth, Ragnarock feels two gens behind imho. Very basic looking game with gross geometry and outdated lighting, Santa Monica really needs to step up their game

 

[SlimySnake]

One thing I love about Black Myth compared to Massive's equally amazing next gen games is that Black Myth consistently goes for a more realistic art style. Every single area from the forest to the desert and now the snow area has a surprisingly photorealistic look that we just didnt see last gen. Avatar's very first trailer had that look but they went all cartoony for the final game. Star Wars also looks very gamey. I gotta admire the ballsy decision to go for that kind of art style because its clear that western AAA devs have shied away from it over the years. Horizon especially goes for a very stylized look. Only ND with TLOU2 went for that look and i really fucking hope their next game is more black myth than avatar.

The mountains in the snow area look so fucking good. They just look detailed from afar with proper distant shadows and have this very realistic shading that you rarely see in video games. The forest itself isnt anything to write home about but every once in a while you will stumble upon a cave with near perfect lighting and I am like i dont ever want to leave this cave again.

I havent played Star Wars yet, but from the pics ive seen (you guys need to step up your gif game) it looks fairly gamey like jedi survivor. i think a few different color grading choices and we wouldve probably gotten a fairly photorealistic looking title. the tech is all there. rtgi, ao, shadows and reflections. the material work is stellar. maybe i will try some reshades.

Saw this on twitter. Someone did a reshade to add a fog layer. I hope the devs had a reshade of their own.

 

[Bitstream]

From what I've seen, the game appears to be downgraded massively from this early gif that was floating around. Anyone running this on a top end rig - are you seeing comparable levels of detail, wind, fog, and sand simulation?

 

[Lethal01]

Say what you want about Hasan Kahraman, but his idea for an app to distribute real-time trailers was fantastic and still desperately needed. I reckon this will solve some of the disagreements of the visual merits of certain games between those who've actually played it on thier console/pc vs those who've only been experienced via youtube videos.

It's been true to youtube killts detail, but it's never bad enough that the game doesn't look exactly how I expect when I play it myself

 

[DanielG165]

From what I've seen, the game appears to be downgraded massively from this early gif that was floating around. Anyone running this on a top end rig - are you seeing comparable levels of detail, wind, fog, and sand simulation?

I will say that the second moment in that slice with the desert environment looks quite comparable in the retail version.

 

[DanielG165]

After playing Black Myth, Ragnarock feels two gens behind imho. Very basic looking game with gross geometry and outdated lighting, Santa Monica really needs to step up their game

Ragnarok looks like a slightly tuned version of 2018 with better facial expressions, and that’s really the extent of the visual improvements. It’s a very efficient, safe, and basic game in the graphical department. I’m honestly looking forward to playing it on PC for the sole purpose of comparing Ragnarok to 2018, as I think both will be incredibly similar/comparable when the visuals are cranked up.

To me, Ragnarok should’ve been on the list to release around this time with the PS5 Pro, not be shackled to an 11 year old machine. Perhaps it could’ve been comparable to Black Myth then, and been way more ambitious in scope and scale, especially with what Ragnarok is supposed to be in the actual mythology.

What we instead got is 2018.5 in the graphics and tech department.

 

[SlimySnake]

Ragnarok looks like a slightly tuned version of 2018 with better facial expressions, and that’s really the extent of the visual improvements. It’s a very efficient, safe, and basic game in the graphical department. I’m honestly looking forward to playing it on PC for the sole purpose of comparing Ragnarok to 2018, as I think both will be incredibly similar/comparable when the visuals are cranked up.

To me, Ragnarok should’ve been on the list to release around this time with the PS5 Pro, not be shackled to an 11 year old machine. Perhaps it could’ve been comparable to Black Myth then, and been way more ambitious in scope and scale, especially with what Ragnarok is supposed to be in the actual mythology.

What we instead got is 2018.5 in the graphics and tech department.

The intro in black myth and several epic boss fights since are exactly what I wanted from a next gen GOW. Just the insane speeds at which these mythological beings move is a sight to behold. Gow boss battles and setpieces felt so restrictive in comparison. Just arena fights with no real scale. The ending especially was so lame. A linear as fuck level that ends with two of the most underwhelming fights in the series. One literally in a basement lol

Black myth has its share of arena fights but they add a big setpiece style boss in each chapter to sell the next Gen scale of this game. I loved the desert boss battle so much. It’s so simple but that scale man.

 

[RainyNguyen]

Im just in chap 5, 10/10 game

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

 

[SlimySnake]

From what I've seen, the game appears to be downgraded massively from this early gif that was floating around. Anyone running this on a top end rig - are you seeing comparable levels of detail, wind, fog, and sand simulation?

I brought this up a couple of days ago. The volumetric lighting, fog and wind effects especially in the snow area have been significantly paired back. But why? On PC they added rtxdi which is so heavy it literally cuts performance in half. Then they added a hidden unobtanium setting which is even harder to run on even the best PCs.

So why not hide the e3 pre downgraded version behind those settings? Unless it was all faked.

 

[Flabagast]

Im just in chap 5, 10/10 game

The geometry in some of these environments is insane. In chapter 3 there is a narrow passage in a corridor with hundred of small bouddha statues and they are all modeled ultra precisely, it’s a work of art.

 

[Xtib81]

For those who play wukong maxed out on PC, can we say that the UE5 tech demo from 2020 has been reached?

 

[Flabagast]

For those who play wukong maxed out on PC, can we say that the UE5 tech demo from 2020 has been reached?

Even on PS5 I’d say yes (barring maybe the IQ).

 

[Bitstream]

I brought this up a couple of days ago. The volumetric lighting, fog and wind effects especially in the snow area have been significantly paired back. But why? On PC they added rtxdi which is so heavy it literally cuts performance in half. Then they added a hidden unobtanium setting which is even harder to run on even the best PCs.

So why not hide the e3 pre downgraded version behind those settings? Unless it was all faked.

Thats exactly what I figured, I was cautiously optimistic when seeing this footage, but ubisoft is known for outright lying in their trailers (watchdogs reveal), looks like they're up to their same old bullshit.

 

[SlimySnake]

QFor those who play wukong maxed out on PC, can we say that the UE5 tech demo from 2020 has been reached?

Game is very uneven because textures can at times look very muddy. But at times it can match or exceed the ue5 demo.

The geometry in some of these environments is insane. In chapter 3 there is a narrow passage in a corridor with hundred of small bouddha statues and they are all modeled ultra precisely, it’s a work of art.

Good lord i could jerk off to that corridor.

 

[Xtib81]

For those with technical knowledge, is path tracing CP2077 on ps5 pro a pipe dream? I was watching a bunch of videos and cards like the rtx 3070 or the 4060 could run the game with path tracing at decent framerate (45-50) with a mix of medium/high presets. That would be such a step up for the ps5 version.

 

[shamoomoo]

For those with technical knowledge, is path tracing CP2077 on ps5 pro a pipe dream? I was watching a bunch of videos and cards like the rtx 3070 or the 4060 could run the game with path tracing at decent framerate (45-50) with a mix of medium/high presets. That would be such a step up for the ps5 version.

A better question is whether CD project Red or Sony are going to enable that or just use the RT performance for future and upcoming games.

 

[SlimySnake]

For those with technical knowledge, is path tracing CP2077 on ps5 pro a pipe dream? I was watching a bunch of videos and cards like the rtx 3070 or the 4060 could run the game with path tracing at decent framerate (45-50) with a mix of medium/high presets. That would be such a step up for the ps5 version.

i can run path tracing on my 3080 and the ps5 pro's rt capabilities might be on par with the 3080 so yes. just expect further downgrades and 30 fps.

 

[Bojji]

For those with technical knowledge, is path tracing CP2077 on ps5 pro a pipe dream? I was watching a bunch of videos and cards like the rtx 3070 or the 4060 could run the game with path tracing at decent framerate (45-50) with a mix of medium/high presets. That would be such a step up for the ps5 version.

Assuming that RDNA4 has Ada level of RT, PS5 Pro should be around level of 4070. I had 4070ti (~25% better) and PT was running with game on high overall settings and base 1080p (with DLSS to 4K), framerate - 35-40fps. With frame gen experience was not bad at all.

Base game is much lighter than PL so I had to drop to 3200x1800 with DLSS P to get same level of performance in DLC (900p internal).

I don't think you can expect anything over 30fps "real" framerate out of PS5 Pro in this game.

 

[DanielG165]

For those with technical knowledge, is path tracing CP2077 on ps5 pro a pipe dream? I was watching a bunch of videos and cards like the rtx 3070 or the 4060 could run the game with path tracing at decent framerate (45-50) with a mix of medium/high presets. That would be such a step up for the ps5 version.

Maybe. But expect major concessions to get there if it does happen, visual downgrades, 30fps, lower resolution etc.

 

[RodriGames40]

Maybe. But expect major concessions to get there if it does happen, visual downgrades, 30fps, lower resolution etc.

With the specs known the only concession will be 30 FPS, low resolution is expected since PSSR is supposed to hard carry the thing anyway.

 

[CGNoire]

I brought this up a couple of days ago. The volumetric lighting, fog and wind effects especially in the snow area have been significantly paired back. But why? On PC they added rtxdi which is so heavy it literally cuts performance in half. Then they added a hidden unobtanium setting which is even harder to run on even the best PCs.

So why not hide the e3 pre downgraded version behind those settings? Unless it was all faked.

What the unobtanium setting do?

 

[CGNoire]

For those with technical knowledge, is path tracing CP2077 on ps5 pro a pipe dream? I was watching a bunch of videos and cards like the rtx 3070 or the 4060 could run the game with path tracing at decent framerate (45-50) with a mix of medium/high presets. That would be such a step up for the ps5 version.

Yeah only with Dlss they can.

 

[GymWolf]

For those who play wukong maxed out on PC, can we say that the UE5 tech demo from 2020 has been reached?

SOmetimes yes, sometimes no.

But it's the closest actual game to that demo for sure.

 

[MostlyPeaceful]

Keep in mind, the PS5 already punches above its weight running CB2077 compared to PC already.

If the Pro’s RT is as good as we’re hoping it will be, it should definitely be capable of running PT in 2077 with some reasonable concessions.

Source @ 8:13

 

[Flabagast]

In the usual course of action, knowing CDPR they sure would release a Pro patch, and most probably pack in as much RT features as they can for the 30fps mode.

But since they have now ditched their engine I am not so certain they are willing to go back to it and work hard to make the necessary optimisations to enable PT on the Pro, whereas their engineers time could be better spent to work heavily on their custom version of UE5 for their future projects

 

[MostlyPeaceful]

In the usual course of action, knowing CDPR they sure would release a Pro patch, and most probably pack in as much RT features as they can for the 30fps mode.

But since they have now ditched their engine I am not so certain they are willing to go back to it and work hard to make the necessary optimisations to enable PT on the Pro, whereas their engineers time could be better spent to work heavily on their custom version of UE5 for their future projects

True. We’re likely more limited by the resources CDPR is willing to put into a patch rather than the capabilities of the Pro itself. Guess we’ll just see.

Gotta say though, a Pro patch enabling PT would be a pretty good killer app to have. If I was Sony I’d be on the phone with CDPR.

 

[SlimySnake]

I am glad I stood up Demon Souls earlier today. It still looks amazing despite being 4 years old and running at 1440p 60 fps.



Wukong has its own strengths but honestly am suprised by how well DS is holding up. Amazing image quality, asset fidelity, and texture work. Its a shame you almost never get to see it because the game doesnt look as good with a white halo around you when you are undead.

 

[RodriGames40]

So, looking for stuff about the PS5 pre-release and checking the specs of the GPU for research... Apparently in case you didn't know, PS5 had such a high fillrate before it launched that even the RTX 2080 looked bad compared to it during this font rendering test. https://www.notebookcheck.net/PlayS...-2080-and-previous-gen-consoles.508462.0.html

Pixel fillrate is basically rasterization power, no wonder games like Demon Souls remake with no raytracing did so amazingly well and Sony took so long to bother with it at all. PS5's strengths have always been here to begin with.

 

[DanielG165]

I had a nice surprise today. With some tinkering and troubleshooting, I was able to crank Outlaws up from 1080p to 1440p, instead using FSR 3 over DLSS, and all of the RT goodies on high I believe, with a mix of high and medium for everything else. Anyone here who may be thinking about trying the game out, I would forgo using RT Direct Lighting, as it has very little effect on the overall presentation, yet chews through VRAM at an alarming rate.

With that off, 60fps is consistent, and my VRAM is considerably more stable now, though Outlaws overall is very hungry in that regard. Honestly, this game is probably the biggest pleasant surprise for me graphically this year. Snowdrop is a pretty ludicrous engine.

 

[RaduN]

I am glad I stood up Demon Souls earlier today. It still looks amazing despite being 4 years old and running at 1440p 60 fps.



Wukong has its own strengths but honestly am suprised by how well DS is holding up. Amazing image quality, asset fidelity, and texture work. Its a shame you almost never get to see it because the game doesnt look as good with a white halo around you when you are undead.

Demon Souls in an absolute beast.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Wow outlaws looks ROUGH on console, and i thought the pc version was whatever...

Just checked it out on Series X via Ubisoft+ and the game actually looks great in the 30 fps mode. The only glaring issue is the characteristic FSR shimmering on specular objects. The problem is you see some videos on Youtube not knowing which of the 3 modes you're looking at. Fidelity mode is the only way to play these types of demanding new games but most gamers go with 60 fps anyway.

I think it looks as good as Avatar and was surprised by it not only having great rt gi but also a nice density to environments. It's also not a bad game so far either. It's much more fun than Avatar imo.

I wish the PS5 Pro had been available for this game though damn it.

 

[kevboard]

I am glad I stood up Demon Souls earlier today. It still looks amazing despite being 4 years old and running at 1440p 60 fps.



Wukong has its own strengths but honestly am suprised by how well DS is holding up. Amazing image quality, asset fidelity, and texture work. Its a shame you almost never get to see it because the game doesnt look as good with a white halo around you when you are undead.

I think it's not fair to compare Bluepoint games to anything else lol... that's like sending someone into race against Usain Bolt

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Demon Souls in an absolute beast.

And it runs and feels SO much better to play than WuKong. Not happy with the ps5 version of that game. Im plaing in Fidelity mode and while the framerate seems to hold 30, there are other things that make it feel worse than it should, like ghosting (it's bad) and some odd artifacts (like on some of the atmospheric lighting- remember the Forbidden West reveal trailer had this issue). I also don't get the sense that the developer is going to focus on fixing these issues. Shame. Lack of HDR really sucks too. Im more impressed by SW Outlaws ..never thought id be saying that

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

DF said the trailer has hints that they are using RTGI. But I agree the rocks and other ground detail isnt exactly screaming nanite. its an upgrade, but not a huge one. i have a feeling they are targeting a native 4k resolution like HFW.

I think Sony studios missed a truck by not embracing rt in their cross Gen game Gen games. Callisto looks amazing with rt effects and higher quality assets. Literally a generation ahead of TLOU Part 1 and GOW Ragnroak released the same year. HFW excelled elsewhere but its trees and forests couldve used rtao, rt shadows to really make trees and interiors cast realistic shadows. Black Myth's forests look so perfect in that regard. even dragon Dogma's trees gain a lot from this.

all they had to do was slap rt on their games and improve asset fidelity. they failed at that. now we have to wait another 2-3 years to see what they have cooking. But if they target 1080p-1440p like star wars outlaws and black myth, i have no doubt they will top both games.

Demon Souls and some Ratchet levels have that kind of asset fidelity ive come to expect from top tier next gen games. But the rest i agree, last gen as fuck. DS has great draw distance and lighting, but i really hope they improve the geometry and other ground level detail. hopefully its kinda like star wars outlaws and jedi survivor where youtube compression is hiding all that detail.

Horizon has some pretty good geometry too...maybe not as dense though as some of the "true" next gen games but certain rock outcroppings in Horizon have near nanite levels of geometry ... i agree with you about RT in Horizon it would make the game look insane

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

DS2 looks great but not that much better than DS1 on PS5/PC based on trailers.

What Sony games are missing is real time GI, UE5 has lumen and few other games have RTGI but Sony so far have nothing. This is the biggest difference between PS4 and PS5 era of graphics.

I think they are implementing some stuff in their engines thanks to much higher RT performance of PS5 pro but so far their showing has been poor (on regular PS5 obviously), even PC ports usually lack any RT. In the meantime rest of the industry is moving forward.

When DS2 comes out and you play it without YT compression you'll see the difference for sure

 

[Balducci30]

Got Ubisoft + and downloaded Outlaws. It looks good. Animations are straight up terrible though - like horrible. Not just the lip-syncing but the movement as well, npcs don’t react to you they’re like stiff posts running into them, However the raytracing/lighting makes it look on another level than most games. It really does make a huge difference to have dynamic, fairly accurate global illumination or whatever they are doing - when I think of Horizon Forbidden West, this is the main thing that hurt its visuals, the lighting was very last gen and as a result it lost this sense of shape and depth, I’d love to see that game with this type of lighting.

EDIT: just saw Slimy had almost the same thought here

 

[JCreasy]

Im just in chap 5, 10/10 game

GYYAAATTT!!

Ok, maybe I won’t be at to wait until PS5 Pro.

 

[SlimySnake]

And it runs and feels SO much better to play than WuKong. Not happy with the ps5 version of that game. Im plaing in Fidelity mode and while the framerate seems to hold 30, there are other things that make it feel worse than it should, like ghosting (it's bad) and some odd artifacts (like on some of the atmospheric lighting- remember the Forbidden West reveal trailer had this issue). I also don't get the sense that the developer is going to focus on fixing these issues. Shame. Lack of HDR really sucks too. Im more impressed by SW Outlaws ..never thought id be saying that

Glad to see Star Wars passed your eye test. I always had high hopes for it despite the downgrades. Will download it tomorrow.

Black myth is a weird one but it kinda makes sense if you piece things together. Apparently the console versions were not going to make it at launch so Sony funded the ps5 development for it. That’s why it came in hot. Unlike most games, it was a pc title downported to consoles and likely by an external team.

They also used fsr instead of tsr which is way better in terms of iq because they needed fsr framegen for the 60 fps mode. Tsr has no frame Gen option. Just one bad decision after another. I do like that they didn’t drop the performance mode res down to 720p like everyone else does. Let’s have some fucking standards, it’s 2024. 720p was the standard in 2006 ffs. I am not surprised that so many people believe graphics haven’t improved this Gen because they are all playing crappy 60 fps modes with terrible iq and downgraded settings.

 

[SlimySnake]

Got Ubisoft + and downloaded Outlaws. It looks good. Animations are straight up terrible though - like horrible. Not just the lip-syncing but the movement as well, npcs don’t react to you they’re like stiff posts running into them, However the raytracing/lighting makes it look on another level than most games. It really does make a huge difference to have dynamic, fairly accurate global illumination or whatever they are doing - when I think of Horizon Forbidden West, this is the main thing that hurt its visuals, the lighting was very last gen and as a result it lost this sense of shape and depth, I’d love to see that game with this type of lighting.

EDIT: just saw Slimy had almost the same thought here

It’s a shame massive didn’t invest a lot in their cinematic team. Avatar’s cutscenes were horrendous. First person, locked in place and basic as fuck. Weird decision for a Hollywood IP. Star Wars seems to be better but it’s like a gen behind Sonys last Gen first party efforts.

 

[RaduN]

Mo Cap and Facial Cap is really sub par in Outlaws. It's a shame because the models are absolutelly top tier.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah i'm gonna disagree on the top tier models or the game looking as good as avatar.

Sorry i just don't see it.

Aliens look better than humans tho, some creatures are very well made.

 

[Bojji]

When DS2 comes out and you play it without YT compression you'll see the difference for sure

I don't doubt it, YT fucks up a lot of things.

But I think people forget how good DS1 looks (and this is regular version, not DC):

 

[ckstine]

I went back and re-downloaded the Valley of the Ancients demo and the city sample demo. They are both pale compared to Wukong regarding lighting and, interestingly, asset (texture/polycount) quality. The standard texture resolution and geometric density are much higher in Wukong. The real downside to Wukong is that, at its worst, the textures are a little bit lower quality than what we might see in the other two. Higher highs, lower lows.

 

[GymWolf]

A little bit lower quality is the understatement of the century, the game in some location has some legit ps3 textures, the demo was flawless everywhere.

I take slightly less details over being uneven (and chap 2 is jarringly uneven)

I also don't think the statues in wukong are as flawless or have the same amoung of geometry as the statues in the demo, they have some rough edges here and there

Ue5 statue

They look good from distance but if you zoom you can notice the small flaws in wukong statues.

I coule be wrong tho, i only zoomed on some statues, not all of them.

 

[analog_future]

I don't doubt it, YT fucks up a lot of things.

But I think people forget how good DS1 looks (and this is regular version, not DC):

Eh, it looks good but looks pretty last-gen at this point.

 

[GymWolf]

They need to cut down the shiny, plastic looking skin in the sequel.

Even if the face details are there, the skin looks wrong.

 

[Xtib81]

I was a bit disappointed with the way Sam looks in DS2, he doesn't look that much better compared to DS1. They still have trouble with hair rendering.