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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
GymWolf
Gold Member
Balducci30
Member
This is fanboyism likely. Theres no way anyone with a brain can think that for real. Sony was ahead of the curve by far during the ps4 era and now they are behind it. People are just having trouble admitting that I feel like - and first party games often have more polish overall which might impress some
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GymWolf
Gold Member
They really toned down the graphic of crimson desert, or maybe this is the console version
It still look somehow pleasant to the eyes but i'm being very lenient because of its AA nature, if this was a new sony game i would be furious...
At least there is a lot of brekable stuff.
It still look somehow pleasant to the eyes but i'm being very lenient because of its AA nature, if this was a new sony game i would be furious...
At least there is a lot of brekable stuff.
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Msamy
Member
I dont see any tuned dawn in this video the worst thing in that video is its bad youtube horrible quality specially since ign post it, that gameplay should have provided by the developers themselves but I think ign payed for this ( truely i dont know what is wrong with them every video that they published in youtube looks worse than orignal developers videos and have worse image quality)
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Your partpicker link is empty because it was not the build link (you had a build in mind right?)
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Got a video example?
arkhamguy123
Member
Balducci30
Member
Absolutely does. By far. Kinda pisses me off we only get these physics in a platformer. It’s like a generation beyond anything else in that regard.
Balducci30
Member
Playing the first level of Black Myth on ps5 - If this is anything to go by it’s the graphics king by far imo. Even over hellblade (that game is too limited). The forest looks better than anything I’ve seen in a game as do the character models. Plays pretty well too
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
I think when physics adds to gameplay then its cool, but just putting a ton of items on screen is... a cool visual candy but I don't ever see Nintendo going for that to be honest, as it brings nothing, and so niche of a situation that you're basically only gonna see this in platformers. The water tech is cool, the inflatable visuals or like, don't know if its organic at one point, looks like being inside a creature, the elasticity of it all is really neat. The cutting of objects like platforms to make enemies fall, that's serving gameplay. The million gems falling though, looks cool but I don't see a point other than "we could do it".
amigastar
Member
Damn that looks awesome.
Balducci30
Member
It’s cool because everything in the world feels like it reacts physically to you in a way I’ve never seen in a regular game. Like you know things will respond in the way you expect them to in real life. Which really does add something imo to the feeling of the game world being alive - you could make an argument that very few graphical features legit have a gameplay application but the water, the elasticity, the hundreds of objects you move through it adds to it in a sort of intangible way
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You’ve seen nothing, chapter 1 is the less impressive part of the whole game. You are in for a treat, enjoy!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep. They are a 500 person team but they were smart enough to learn from their mistakes with Cyberpunk.
Demon Souls and Ratchet maybe. The real argument we had was around HFW and TLOU2. He was posting gifs from the reveal trailers which were fake meanwhile im posting all the crappy shots ive taken of both games over the years lol
I was simply pointing out that there are games this gen that are doing certain things better, and that there are serious flaws in HFW and tlou1 remake that were not present in other games. TLOU1 remake has the same last gen assets as tlou2 which was my graphics goty in 2020 i picked over both demon souls and cyberpunk because it was better overall in terms of motion matching, cutscene fidelity, setpieces, as well as sheer graphics fidelity. Same goes for HfW in 2022.
However, in 2024? nah, Avatar is leaps beyond HFW and no amount of fancy motion captured faces would let me give them a break when they couldve easily upped the draw distance, added ray tracing or used higher quality assets like callisto did in the next gen versions. Or at least in the burning shores DLC. They didnt. ND didnt with the PS5 only remake. GG wont with the Horizon remake. Just like how insomniac didnt with the ps5 only spiderman 2.
2020 was 4 years ago. ND is no longer the king.
DanielG165
Member
Wow. Crimson Dawn?
arkhamguy123
Member
Picking the TLOU2 over demon souls is bananas
I like the vegetation. Neil was inspired by GG efforts on horizon zero dawn and pushed his team to make it all really dense and lush. I’m actually replaying the game now and it looks alright but demon souls spanks it so bad it’s not even funny.
It’s basically infamous second son/KZ shadow fall to TLOU ps3
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arkhamguy123
Member
Nope. No sir. We are not going to look at advanced physics like this and say “but it’s superfluous!” in the graphical fidelity thread
Here we praise developers who put in that effort and venerate these tech advances. Gameplay talk is for the OT brotha
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Dust-by-Monday
Member
Fun fact: Shadows are softer on larger objects. The image on the right is actually more accurate to reality. Go outside and look at tree shadows and you'll see what I mean.Close to PS5 fidelity modes they said lol
saw this on twitter. Look at the tree shadows or lack thereof.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Zelda TOTK has amazing physics, doesn't deserve this thread's attention. Astrobot looks fun and all but, I don't see anything that deserves to be in this thread.
Remember Starfield?
Putting 20,000 objects with physics is nothing new. Hell that engine is so goddamn old, the same physic principles go as far back as Oblivion. Nothing advanced about that. Just no purposes to put in 99% of games.
Like I said in my comment, the game uses well the water and slicing for gameplay purposes, I'm not just falling off my chair for "lots of objects" having physics, in simplistic platformer levels.
arkhamguy123
Member
Zelda TOTK has amazing physics, doesn't deserve this thread's attention. Astrobot looks fun and all but, I don't see anything that deserves to be in this thread.
Remember Starfield?
Putting 20,000 objects with physics is nothing new. Hell that engine is so goddamn old, the same physic principles go as far back as Oblivion. Nothing advanced about that. Just no purposes to put in 99% of games.
Like I said in my comment, the game uses well the water and slicing for gameplay purposes, I'm not just falling off my chair for "lots of objects" having physics, in simplistic platformer levels.
Zelda has nothing that comes close to anything in astrobot. I've completed both games.
I'm actually glad you brought up starfield, I figured you would, and it helps my point, we have a console retail game pushing physics like a MODDED game on high end PCs. So yeah it is impressive thank you for unknowingly agreeing with me.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
There's no mods, just a command to spawn the objects
You could take the long way around on xbox and accumulate 20,000 toilet paper rolls and do the same. Its not hard. Its been in Oblivion and Skyrim. Peoples were doing it in Skyrim with cheese wheels 12 years ago, quite the "high end" rig compared to a PS5 I imagine.
On fucking creation engine, of all the engines
No its not impressive, nice try putting words in my mouth.
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arkhamguy123
Member
Accruing 20 THOUSAND toilet paper rolls isn’t hard? What?? See 99% of people who play starfield will never see these. In the game Bethesda shipped you play it to 100% completion and you’ll never see anything like this. Hell I put 50 hours in on series x and never saw anything like that. Astrobot, every level has that and everyone who plays it will see it. And starfield still doesn’t have the fluid or cloth simulations Astrobot hasThere's no mods, just a command to spawn the objects
You could take the long way around on xbox and accumulate 20,000 toilet paper rolls and do the same. Its not hard. Its been in Oblivion and Skyrim. Peoples were doing it in Skyrim with cheese wheels 12 years ago, quite the "high end" rig compared to a PS5 I imagine.
On fucking creation engine, of all the engines
No its not impressive, nice try putting words in my mouth.
And since it’s so mundane to you then name me another console game that has these kinds of physics objects in it in such quantity
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Balducci30
Member
But those amount of objects in starfield ARE impressive. It’s the most impressive thing about the game. There are zero other games that do that with no slow down - except now astrobot which does it at 60 fps. The idea that it’s not new technology in theory means nothing because most games simply can’t pull it off or they would have more interactive physicality in the world. It would suit almost any genre any game, that’s like saying animations don’t matter because they don’t serve a gameplay purpose at all points. Imagine how many open world games could benefit from every object in the world physically interacting with the environment.There's no mods, just a command to spawn the objects
You could take the long way around on xbox and accumulate 20,000 toilet paper rolls and do the same. Its not hard. Its been in Oblivion and Skyrim. Peoples were doing it in Skyrim with cheese wheels 12 years ago, quite the "high end" rig compared to a PS5 I imagine.
On fucking creation engine, of all the engines
No its not impressive, nice try putting words in my mouth.
And TOTK’s physics are great, it was praised specifically for them - it’s the main thing people love about the game. Yet theyre not nearly on the level of Astrobots - which also does liquid and everything else just as well
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
But my point is it brings nothing. Why do you think most devs don’t bother? Why Bethesda didn’t make levels full of potatoes? Because it doesn’t make sense and brings nothing. I said nice things for the water and elasticity of some platforms, but you were so fucking triggered by just me saying that dropping buckets of the same objects for sake of dropping objects brings nothing and is easily done over a decade ago.
The water looks like shit also btw. Physics are cool for the gameplay in that game, doesn’t deserve to be here.
arkhamguy123
Member
This isn’t a gameplay thread though homie lol. Your comment about it being extraneous is well… extraneous itself. Nice side step on the naming 1 other game that has these physics though
And ok lol. I’m sorry the water texture didn’t impress you
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
No it didn’t impress
There’s a physic thread for you to go to. Graphic wise it’s nothing to write home about
Just like the king of physics is not mentioned in this thread other than an « ugly » game, even though imo it looks ton better and more impressive than astrobots. Considering the level of physics, destruction and all with ray tracing because otherwise it would look wack when open up a wall and the sun rays don’t come in
Know why it’s not talked here? Because these peoples want horizon level of graphics with teardown level of destructions ultimately.
There’s a physic thread for you to go to. Graphic wise it’s nothing to write home about
Just like the king of physics is not mentioned in this thread other than an « ugly » game, even though imo it looks ton better and more impressive than astrobots. Considering the level of physics, destruction and all with ray tracing because otherwise it would look wack when open up a wall and the sun rays don’t come in
Know why it’s not talked here? Because these peoples want horizon level of graphics with teardown level of destructions ultimately.
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
You really forgot how good TLOU 2 looks…
Balducci30
Member
The water doesn’t look like shit, it actually moves like real water. It’s a legit fluid simulation - is there a single game that does that to Astrobots level where it applies to any liquid in the game, including large and small bodies of water? I cannot think of any. The closest I’ve seen was rdr2 on a high end PC did it with a small lake.
It’s weird to me that people would like water to just be a static thing that clearly is not simulating anything, like the water in Horizon or the water in Sea of thieves - they look great but don’t interact with the player in a realistic way at all, it’s all very clearly textures that just repeat, same with fire in games, it’s been a problem for ages when everything looks so high quality but it’s clearly a trick and static.
I guess it’s similar to Baked lighting vs pathtracing - baked lighting can make a great looking scene but nothing in it is dynamic - there will always be moments where it breaks the illusion. If we want graphics to move forward in any way you need physical objects that interact with the world properly and fluid sims.
arkhamguy123
Member
I’m replaying it now
Balducci30
Member
Tear down is all voxels isn’t it? Thats why it’s not talked about much, it’s impossible to make a fully voxel game without making everything in it blocky as fuck. It’s not applicable to regular games. Unless I’ve misunderstood something. But we’ve definitely mentioned tear down several times in this thread regardless - it’s been out for a while.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Really
Like real water..
I’ll let the thread veterans chime in
If real water behaves like that I don’t feel like wasting my time. Blender fluid simulation doesn’t even look close to real water. Best thing I’ve seen come close are these new AI simulations.
Doing a spin and the ground is dry afterwards when the paste looking water just splashed away
It cool it’s in a game, I’m not saying devs haven’t worked hard for it. Just doesn’t look good to me.
But choice of words is important. Nowhere close real water.
arkhamguy123
Member
What’s another game with a real time fluid simulation like Astrobot?
Balducci30
Member
It moves more like real water than any other games water I’ve seen. Is that better? Or does water that just makes ripple textures whenever you touch it look better in your opinion? Idgaf about the devs working hard on it - I want that in more games. Like I want hair from fifa in more games or cloth physics like that wukong cinematic posted earlier in games, all of this would make a huge difference in believability of a world graphically, all these things are talked about regularly in this thread I don’t know where you’ve been.
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arkhamguy123
Member
What a terrible rebuttal. Physics is a component of graphical fidelity and presentation. I don’t know where you’ve been but it’s a huge point of interest in this thread and discussed regularly
mansoor1980
Member
it did? didnt notice
GymWolf
Gold Member
Yep, it's not advanced physisc that we never seen before there is just a lot of it everywhere.
Cool to see, hardly groundbreaking.
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PeteBull
Member
We dont know how good that upscaling is gonna be, and about rt capabilities, cerny himself said 2-3x higher than base ps5, which isnt that much really coz ps5 has crazy bad rt capabilities, pr0 rt will be somewhere around rtx 4070 maybe, maybe bit below https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-7800-xt/34.html which means even oldish(mid 2020 launch)rtx 3080 will be stronger both in rt and raster.
PeteBull
Member
oops sorry, fixed https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/RPyvgB
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I havent played much of astrobot but im all for devs utilizing simulations of any kind. i consider that part of graphics fidelity just like destruction and other physics related effects.
Balducci30
Member
To me I see it as ground breaking for the simple reason that this type of stuff is in practically zero real games. The performance cost is apparently too high - yet astrobot does it at 60fps with no drops. The only thing I’ve seen remotely similar is RDR2 on pc - I don’t think it has to be brand new tech to be considered a step forward. The only game I have hope to be beat this in terms of simulation/physics is GTA6 atm.
GymWolf
Gold Member
My """problem""" is thar nothing of what i saw is inherently better than the tech i saw in other games, there is just a lot of it.
Basic havok for objects? Having 10 or 1000 of them doesn't change how advanced is the tech that make them move, you can spawn 1000 objects in an old game like oblivion and they are gonna react in the same way they react in astro because the tech is the exact same, if we trolled starfield for the same reason, astro doesn't get a pass.
Water that looks a vit more like jelly than water, Rdr2 has better water physics, you can literally run on a circle and create a fucking vortex, there is even a gif on google if you search for rdr2 water physics gif.
Astro has that nice sponge effect, but it looks like an on\off graphical effect when you go into water, i sincerely doubt that the particles of water get sucked in by the sponge with a real physics system behind (it would be absolutely crazy to code and super heavy if it was the case), it looks cool but it's hardly advanced, just a cool effect like when you eat a lot or get an upgrade in some games and the character turn fat immediately, there is not real physics going on, just a on\off switch graphical effect when something specific happen, i think we can agree that astro doesn't really have sponge\liquid actual physics because it would crash and burn a fucking ps5
Precisely cutting stuff? Mgs with raiden and shadow warrior 2 already did that many years ago (and probably other games with a destruction system aswell)
Leaf physics? Wukong already does that while looking 1 generation better at the very least, tsushima does that while being an open world (although not as advanced as wukong and astro), horizon 1 had destructible plants with big leaves floating in the air for the low weight before falling down after the main body was destroyed, pretty sure other games had leaves physics aswell, it is definitely not new.
There is probably nothing that astro does better than other games in terms of phisics,, it just have many types of physics in large quantity but with a cartoony graphic that make it simpler to achieve, zelda looks even worse and it has even more physics, noita on pc look way worse than zelda and make it look the physics of zelda and astrobot like childs play because every damn pixel on screen is simulated with oike 10 different physics laws of material interactions, do you get where i'm going?
It is still impressive because having a lot of physics is still pretty rare in games, but the game doesn't have more advanced physics than other games, just more in quantity and variety, a game like just cause 4 has both a lot of physics and destruction on a much larger scale than astrobot but of course nobody gives a fuck about that game so it doesn't get any praise like astro, the saviour of gaming (of the month).
I know i sound negative but i really liked how many physics there is in astrobot, it would be the sole reason for me to buy the game since i don't care about platforms at all.
If god exist, gta6 is gonna have actually advanced physics that beat every other game that tried the same type of physics before not just because of it's quantity, but because it's actually the most advanced, the sea and hair simulation already suggest that.
(Of course nobody is ever gonna beat noita for the low fidelity nature of that game, you can't have single pixel simulated physics with triple A graphic no matter how much they try)
P.s. i only saw videos of astro so i can only judge on the stuff i saw, maybe there is some stuff that i didn't saw yet, it's entirely possible.
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arkhamguy123
Member
Rare GymWolf LMy """problem""" is thar nothing of what i saw is inherently better than the tech i saw in other games, there is just a lot of it.
Basic havok for objects? Having 10 or 1000 of them doesn't change how advanced is the tech that make them move, you can spawn 1000 objects in an old game like oblivion and they are gonna react in the same way they react in astro because the tech is the exact same, if we trolled starfield for the same reason, astro doesn't get a pass.
Water that looks a vit more like jelly than water, Rdr2 has better water physics, you can literally run on a circle and create a fucking vortex, there is even a gif on google if you search for rdr2 water physics gif.
Astro has that nice sponge effect, but it looks like an on\off graphical effect when you go into water, i sincerely doubt that the particles of water get sucked in by the sponge with a real physics system behind (it would be absolutely crazy to code and super heavy if it was the case), it looks cool but it's hardly advanced, just a cool effect like when you eat a lot or get an upgrade in some games and the character turn fat immediately, there is not real physics going on, just a on\off switch graphical effect when something specific happen, i think we can agree that astro doesn't really have sponge\liquid actual physics because it would crash and burn a fucking ps5
Precisely cutting stuff? Mgs with raiden and shadow warrior 2 already did that many years ago (and probably other games with a destruction system aswell)
Leaf physics? Wukong already does that while looking 1 generation better at the very least, tsushima does that while being an open world (although not as advanced as wukong and astro), horizon 1 had destructible plants with big leaves floating in the air for the low weight before falling down after the main body was destroyed, pretty sure other games had leaves physics aswell, it is definitely not new.
There is probably nothing that astro does better than other games in terms of phisics,, it just have many types of physics in large quantity but with a cartoony graphic that make it simpler to achieve, zelda looks even worse and it has even more physics, noita on pc look way worse than zelda and make it look the physics of zelda and astrobot like childs play because every damn pixel on screen is simulated with oike 10 different physics laws of material interactions, do you get where i'm going?
It is still impressive because having a lot of physics is still pretty rare in games, but the game doesn't have more advanced physics than other games, just more in quantity and variety, a game like just cause 4 has both a lot of physics and destruction on a much larger scale than astrobot but of course nobody gives a fuck about that game so it doesn't get any praise like astro, the saviour of gaming (of the month).
I know i sound negative but i really liked how many physics there is in astrobot, it would be the sole reason for me to buy the game since i don't care about platforms at all.
If god exist, gta6 is gonna have actually advanced physics that beat every other game that tried the same type of physics before not just because of it's quantity, but because it's actually the most advanced, the sea and hair simulation already suggest that.
(Of course nobody is ever gonna beat noita for the low fidelity nature of that game, you can't have single pixel simulated physics with triple A graphic no matter how much they try)
P.s. i only saw videos of astro so i can only judge on the stuff i saw, maybe there is some stuff that i didn't saw yet, it's entirely possible.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Nah i take as many Ls as we have stars in the sky (or the correct english version of this sentence), this is hardly one of them.
I'm just trying to point out the difference between having a lot of physics and having advanced physics, it is not the same thing.
Sorry if i don't get excited to see the same physics i saw in the past 15 years just because it's all crammed in one title, is it to hard to understand?
Burnout series has a lot of destruction, but it doesn't have the advanced destruction of beam ng.
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arkhamguy123
Member
Apology not accepted
GymWolf
Gold Member
Yeah well...spiderman 1 is a better superhero game than any batman game except asylum, and...and...the cutscenes in suicide squad were top notch.
What are you gonna do about that uh, Tough boy?
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Balducci30
Member
RDR2 has better water physics in lakes and stuff but that feature is only available on PC. I haven’t seen something done like that on consoles - much less at a high framerate. And the thing I see in astrobot I haven’t seen before is when the water or slime or whatever liquid reacts properly to other pieces of the environment - sliding into crevices and dripping down things. This is in addition to all out destruction on levels like the sauna level and thousands of high fidelity physical objects in the world and soft body physics on practically everything.What stuff are you talking about? Basic havok for objects? Having 10 or 1000 of them doesn't change how advanced is the tech that make them move,you can spawn 1000 objects in an old game like oblivion and they are gonna react in the same way they react in astro because the tech is the exact same, Water that look more like jelly than water? Rdr2 has better water physics, you can literally run on a circle and create a fucking vortex, there is even a gif on google if you search for rdr2 water physics gif.
Astro has that nice sponge effect, but it looks like an on\off graphical effect when you go into water, i sincerely doubt that the particles of water get sucked in by the sponge with a real physics system behind (it would be absolutely crazy to code and super heavy if it was the case), it looks cool but it's hardly advanced, just a cool effect like when you eat a lot or get an upgrade in some games and the character turn fat immediately, there is not real physics going on, just a on\off switch graphical effect when something specific happen, i think we can agree that astro doesn't really have sponge\liquid actual physics
Precisely cutting stuff? Mgs with raiden and shadow warrior 2 already did that many years ago (and probably other games with a destruction system aswell)
Leaf physics? Wukong already does that while looking 2 generation better, tsushima does that while being an open world.
There is probably nothing that astro does better than other games in terms of phisics,, it just have many types of physics in large quantity but with a cartoony graphic that make it simpler to achieve, zelda looks even worse and it has even more physics, noita on pc look way worse than zelda and make it look the physics of zelda and astrobot like childs play because every damn pixel on screen is simulated with oike 10 different physics laws, do you get where i'm going?
It is still impressive because having a lot of physics is still pretty rare in games, but the game doesn't have more advanced physics than other games, just more in quantity and variety, a game like just cause 4 has both a lot of physics and destruction on a much larger scale than astrobot but of course nobody gives a fuck about that game so it doesn't get any praise like astro, the saviour of gaming (of the month).
I know i sound negative but i really liked how many physics there is in astrobot, it would be the sole reason for me to buy the game since i don't care about platforms at all.
If god exist, gta6 is gonna have actually advanced physics that beat every other game that tried the same type of physics before not just because of it's quantity, but because it's actually the most advanced, the sea and hair simulation already suggest that.
(Of course nobody is ever gonna beat noita for the low fidelity nature of that game, you can't have single pixel simulated physics with triple A graphic no matter how much they try)
P.s. i only saw videos of astro so i can only judge on the stuff i saw, maybe there is some stuff that i didn't saw yet, it's entirely possible.
No, not all of it has gameplay applications but just because it’s havok-level/older techniques doesn’t mean it’s not advanced to me, because I don’t see this happening in any other games. If they’ve found a way to do it at high fidelity and 60fps, then other games should be able to do that too. Just Cause 4 has great physics and destruction and is obviously a different kind of game where that matters more to the core gameplay - but I still don’t recall it doing nearly as much or having as much on screen with the fluid and objects and no slow down. TOTK does a lot for what it is and it’s the same base technology but doesn’t do fluid the same and the objects are all cartoony, slow moving and the game runs at 25 fps half the time.
The fact that most games this gen have tried to completely bypass doing anything special with physics or fluid is a huge problem for me. I think it should be prioritized - and when people try to act like they’re not a big deal I feel like that’s when we get a bunch of bullshit that’s supposedly “Next gen” but has worse physics than games from 20 years ago.
Astrobot manages to look good and have all of it, I’m not a platformer guy, but it is undoubtedly impressive and feels like a step forward. It’s less about the game itself. This should be something most games attempt to do because playing this game it’s obvious having a fully physically realized and reactive world makes a huge difference. Beyond even pathtracing I’d say.
Now yes GTA6 with the hair and rumored water sim stuff should be on another level of impressive - if they pull it off. And I am praying they do.
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