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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

GymWolf

Gold Member
Yeah I’m not seeing the huge leap, looks around spider man 2 level to me
Higher than sp2, at least the characters improved a bit instead of regressing\remaining the same and the art design is so much stronger in tsu2 so it just look better overall.

also probably even more advanced rtx but i'm not the right one to judge.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The generational difference

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Im telling you, this is going to be a SpiderMan 2 situation where prior to release we shit on it, but then when actually seeing what NYC looks like while playing in person, we are mighty impressed.

Plus it has vastly better production values (faces, cutscenes, etc)
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Im telling you, this is going to be a SpiderMan 2 situation where prior to release we shit on it, but then when actually seeing what NYC looks like while playing in person, we are mighty impressed.

Plus it has vastly better production values (faces, cutscenes, etc)
Lol, a lot of people still shit on sp2, where have you been in the last year? :lollipop_squinting:

But i trust tsu2 to look better than sp2, it's hard to do worse tbh, that game didn't wowed me once except for the traversal speed.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
497715.jpg


And it clearly looks worse than deacon in that pic, and days gone is a much larger game with a way larger cast of characters.

I was at least expecting metahuman level of characters in a fully nextgen game from a first party sony, especially after hfw used them almost 3 years ago in a damn crossgen game, we should have even better stuff than that, don't you think?

And it's not just the characters, the overall texture work is just not enough of a jump, i know you care more about rtx stuff, but look at it from the point of view of people with different priorities when it comes to graphic.
no i was agreeing with you. Deacon obviously looks better like most late gen sony games like tlou2, gow 2018, death stranding and detroit but Delsin looks better than GoT1 and GoT2's character models.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Ah, I will say I do like the shot with the big mountain with trees on it. Some of these things may just not look great in trailers… I am worried naughty dogs next game won’t completely blow everyone away now tho
Don't put ND and SP in the same tier please.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
What are you even talking about... Who in their right mind was impressed with Spidey lets-recycle-all-of-our-last-gen-assets 2???
The game looked amazing while swinging around in the city.

It was the abysmal cutscenes that held it back.

But its arguably the best looking city ever in a game
 
The game looked amazing while swinging around in the city.

It was the abysmal cutscenes that held it back.

But its arguably the best looking city ever in a game
It just happens to be the only big budget city this gen so far... But the tech and especially the asset quality is still largely stuck in last gen. But we've had this ad nauseum in this thread already..SM2 was a huge letdown for many of us especially after what was originally "promised"with that target render. The hilarious cutscenes were just the icing on the cake.
 
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The generational difference

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I think I’m starting to finally approach a plateau moment with graphics. I guess it took 5.5 generations. I am seriously having a hard time seeing this footage as anything but flawless, especially artistically. I’ve always seen others here talk about graphical plateaus and diminishing returns, but that has never happened to me before now.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
I think I’m starting to finally approach a plateau moment with graphics. I guess it took 5.5 generations. I am seriously having a hard time seeing this footage as anything but flawless, especially artistically. I’ve always seen others here talk about graphical plateaus and diminishing returns, but that has never happened to me before now.
Don't get fooled by that, wukong and hb2 look a generation better than sushima 2, we are still nowhere close actual photorealism that you can mistakenly exchange for real life.
 
Nah. Most games used 4kcb which was 2x more pixels. Very few games were 1440p. Most games were 4kcb which was 2x plus the gpu cost of the cb reconstruction. It was perfectly in line with the 2.23x increase in gpu power.

We are seeing the same thing here. The gpu is only 1.45x faster and it is literally almost all going into the reconstruction cost. 99% of the games shown so far are using the same performance mode profile that already runs at 60 fps to reconstruct from the game base resolution. This has nothing to do with tflops. Cerny himself said the gpu power increase is 45% and all benchmarks shown so far point to this.

Can you believe though that for $700, this is all we're getting for a GPU increase? I know that PSSR should be (tho i have concerns based on df's analysis of ff7 rebirth and the "temporal instability" they pointed out), but we all know nothing is more important than the GPU so once again I feel like consoles are going to be a failure. FOUR years after the PS5 struggling to run games at high settings we finally get our big chance to fix that with a $700 machine, and all it seems to be able to offer is EITHER good image quality at 60 fps OR some improvements to Ray Tracing, depending on what the devs decide to target....i don't see this thing being able to offer both those things for current gen games ..like for example take Alan Wake 2- we're either getting good image quality at 60 or RT gi for a game like that but not both
 
That’s because it literally is lol. Ragnarok is a last gen game.

EDIT: Man the One X is continuing to impress me. The fact that it can hit 4K most of the time in Far Cry 6 with similar settings to the current gen slew, but at 30fps instead of 60 is impressive. This isn’t of course to say that it’s on par with those machines, but to maintain that level of performance in such a densely packed open world game, at a native 4K for a lot of the experience, and the only downside is 30fps since I have an external SSD plugged in is honestly pretty damn nice. I can’t even hear the thing either.

For a last gen machine, it’s a little monster. It feels more like an 8.5 gen system than a mere mid gen upgrade over the standard One. When I had my first One X, and PS4 Pro, the latter was a great machine for sure, but the Xbox definitely felt like it was pushing and outputting significantly more.

No doubt .. look what they achieved with RDR2 on the One X
 
Maybe you are right but lighting is clearly rt and for me reflection not ssr either maybe use same method as gow ragnorok rt reflection in ps5 that it's developers mentioned in some interview

I don't think Ragnarok uses rt reflections ...or any rt

I def notice the ssr from this ghost 2 trailer (the puddle scene). I hate ssr its so jarring
 
No it wasn't
horizon-character-art-erend-portrait.jpg


horizon-zero-dawn-sylens-story.jpg

10-Best-Side-Characters-in-Horizon-Zero-Dawn.jpg

Horizon-Rost.jpg



Not for 2017 open world standards, many pics are low res, you have to zoom and go high res to see the skin details.
Yeah it's getting late for me x) I wanted to say it was the animation in dialogue that was not amazing but the models were fine. So it's actually pretty great to see that they also reddid the mocap.

For Ghost, the biggest difference between the two games it's probably the scale :





the technical flaws of the first one were very easy to see so if they are corrected it's a good thing and if the horrible rock textures disappeared in the sequel that's already not bad because it was really horrible.
 
Let's hope not, because... Who in their right mind was impressed with Spidey lets-recycle-all-of-our-last-gen-assets 2???
Btw I'm just gonna bring days gone on the table again, ground textures

KFYT4SW.jpg




I'm sorry, you can have pixar level of rtx, but you also must upgrade your fucking assets, one thing can't cover for both.


Especially tsushima 2 since asset quality in ghost 1 stood out as being very much a ps4 game
 
Don't get fooled by that, wukong and hb2 look a generation better than sushima 2, we are still nowhere close actual photorealism that you can mistakenly exchange for real life.
I’m not specifically talking about the endless chase of photorealism, I’m more talking about what appears to be an artistic vision that is quite possibly being 100% achieved.

I know it might sound odd, but when I look at footage of Wukong and HB2 they still have that game-y look to them in certain regards. I don’t quite know the best way to describe it, but either because of certain character models or other tiny factors adding up, they still have a look that immediately lets me know I’m looking at a game, just a high fidelity one.

So far with this trailer (keyword trailer, more gameplay might change my mind) I am not seeing this. It truly feels like I am looking at a CGI movie for the first time that just happens to be interactive, like someone put Blue Eye Samurai on the TV and then said ‘you know you can pick up the controller and play now, right?’

Blue Eye Samurai isn’t going for photorealism either, but it 100% achieves the artistic look it’s going for.
 
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I’m not specifically talking about the endless chase of photorealism, I’m more talking about what appears to be an artistic vision that is quite possibly being 100% achieved.

I know it might sound odd, but when I look at footage of Wukong and HB2 they still have that game-y look to them in certain regards. I don’t quite know the best way to describe it, but either because of certain character models or other tiny factors adding up, they still have a look that immediately lets me know I’m looking at a game, just a high fidelity one.

So far with this trailer (keyword trailer, more gameplay might change my mind) I am not seeing this. It truly feels like I am looking at a CGI movie for the first time that just happens to be interactive, like someone put Blue Eye Samurai on the TV and then said ‘you know you can pick up the controller and play now, right?’

Blue Eye Samurai isn’t going for photorealism either, but it 100% achieves the artistic look it’s going for.
It's a combination of good art direction and nothing particularly egregious about the presentation ruining the illusion. I think many games have already reached that point and with unlimited Nanite geometry and lightning solutions once limited to CGI movies, it's no surprise you feel that way.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
If I told you once, I've told you thousands and thousands of times.

The shadows, brothers. Next-gen is always in the shadows.


Nah, shadows cant hide that last gen face. hell, several last gen faces look better than this. whatever shaders they are using on the face cant be saved by shadows.

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RT shadows should help with the foliage. and it does look like they are using rt shadows at least.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Can you believe though that for $700, this is all we're getting for a GPU increase? I know that PSSR should be (tho i have concerns based on df's analysis of ff7 rebirth and the "temporal instability" they pointed out), but we all know nothing is more important than the GPU so once again I feel like consoles are going to be a failure. FOUR years after the PS5 struggling to run games at high settings we finally get our big chance to fix that with a $700 machine, and all it seems to be able to offer is EITHER good image quality at 60 fps OR some improvements to Ray Tracing, depending on what the devs decide to target....i don't see this thing being able to offer both those things for current gen games ..like for example take Alan Wake 2- we're either getting good image quality at 60 or RT gi for a game like that but not both
I cannot believe it. The tech in the console is $499 at best. with Disc drive, i wouldve paid $599 for it. You cant release a console thats only 45% more powerful for $300 more dollars. i get that moore's law is a thing, but at least keep the price the same. in europe, its literally double what the charged for the pro. 799 pounds/euros and thats without the disc drive which is an extra 100 pounds/euros. insane.

It just happens to be the only big budget city this gen so far... But the tech and especially the asset quality is still largely stuck in last gen. But we've had this ad nauseum in this thread already..SM2 was a huge letdown for many of us especially after what was originally "promised"with that target render. The hilarious cutscenes were just the icing on the cake.
Cyberpunk has the best looking city.

Spiderman 2 only beats it in crowd and traffic. The actual asset quality of the buildings is legit a generation behind cybperunk. you can go either way with lighting but the night time lighting is atrocious in spiderman 2 and absolutely godly in cyberpunk. day time they are probably on par but obviously cybperunk is doing far more advanced things with their rtgi and shadows on PC.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Nah, shadows cant hide that last gen face. hell, several last gen faces look better than this. whatever shaders they are using on the face cant be saved by shadows.

There's the combination of pristine shadows and easily apparent global illumination on the face. It's not about model (i.e. texture, geometry). It's about how the model is reacting to the scene environment. It's the reason every single one of those pics you posted look 1000x more "gamey" than Ghost.

I don't know when I'll ever get over this scene but for sure wont be anytime soon.

ZNZRHKy.jpeg
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Native 4K 30 is still an unbelievable achievement to me. The GPU, ram, and memory in this thing are nuts.
Played RDR2, DMC5, Shadow of Tomb Raider and a couple of other games on my x1x at native 4k and honestly, only rdr2 felt legit awe-inspiring. it was clean as fuck and a religious experience while DMC5 and Shadow of Tomb Raider's flaws just became even more apparent in 4k. i was playing ps4 pro games like spiderman, detroit and gow at 4kcb and they all looked better despite being fake 4k.

I think the biggest issue with the x1x was that it lacked the cpu upgrade that wouldve kept people like myself from switching over to pc. also, just a couple of months after i got the x1x, Nvidia changed the game with dlss and ray tracing. At that point, upgrading my pc despite having a 6 tflops monster just became an obvious choice. but it was a good 6-8 months i had with the x1x.
I don't think Ragnarok uses rt reflections ...or any rt

I def notice the ssr from this ghost 2 trailer (the puddle scene). I hate ssr its so jarring
there is really no point using rt reflections in a game set mostly in the wilderness. especially when most of the architecture is made of wood.

some puddles and streams not using rt should be fine. rt shadows, ao and gi are much more important for foliage rich areas.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I didnt realize they had a full 2+ minute trailer of Horizon remastered on their official channel. they only showed like 30 seconds of footage during the show.



This looks very impressive but no mention of RTGI and the draw distance is still crap. Amazing character faces though.

vBBi3Rj.gif
 
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Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Horizon looks stunning as expected. Won't be shocked if this remake comes out of nowhere and is the best looking game of the year

Gonna look stupid good on PRO
 
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I didnt realize they had a full 2+ minute trailer of Horizon remastered on their official channel. they only showed like 30 seconds of footage during the show.



This looks very impressive but no mention of RTGI and the draw distance is still crap. Amazing character faces though.

vBBi3Rj.gif

I mean it’s just forbidden west from 2 years ago. Which is impressive but ya know. Lateral movement.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Best looking shot in the game. Reminded me of a similar shot in the wukong intro.
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Wukong isnt open world so probably not a fair comparison. I would love to see some star wars outlaws and ac shadows comparisons.
 
Found the opening shot of Ghost of Yotei trailer but not in black and white on the PS Blog :

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I didnt realize they had a full 2+ minute trailer of Horizon remastered on their official channel. they only showed like 30 seconds of footage during the show.



This looks very impressive but no mention of RTGI and the draw distance is still crap. Amazing character faces though.

vBBi3Rj.gif

Yes that's a shame that did not add RTGI but it was probably too much work for Nixxes who would have to relighting the entire game and all cinematic. I think for this to happen Guerrilla would have had to do the remaster themselves but it's also better that they are not wasting time on a remaster.

Honestly i really want to see more footage of DS 2 to find out if they added RTGI to their engine. Sunday should be interesting with the presentation at the TGS.
 
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Msamy

Member
Ghost 2 will end up using rtgi with better shadows, environments and characters than first one, I don't expect more from sucker punch this not the case like insomniac with sm2, ghost 2 looks exactly like what I expect it to be and I pretty sure ghost 2 will end up as one of top 3 best looking titles of 2025 (mark my words)
 

Msamy

Member
Best looking shot in the game. Reminded me of a similar shot in the wukong intro.
xGUnyfM.gif


5RVDgLi.gif


Wukong isnt open world so probably not a fair comparison. I would love to see some star wars outlaws and ac shadows comparisons.
There is also one other shot that stood out for the me at 2,01 this lighting is by far the best I see from sony this gen
 
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