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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

KXVXII9X

Member
You guys are crazy, in motion, on the PRO, this game is going to look like a goddamn painting.

dqXt8zF.jpeg



Phenomenal.

ChiefDada ChiefDada im with you
It looks like an oil painting. Absolutely beautiful! I think these realistic looking games with a bit of stylization and good lighting/shadows thrown in always feel better to me than games that go for a 1:1 look in photorealism. It feels alive instead of just looking real.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Yeah it's getting late for me x) I wanted to say it was the animation in dialogue that was not amazing but the models were fine. So it's actually pretty great to see that they also reddid the mocap.

For Ghost, the biggest difference between the two games it's probably the scale :





the technical flaws of the first one were very easy to see so if they are corrected it's a good thing and if the horrible rock textures disappeared in the sequel that's already not bad because it was really horrible.

Yes, shitty digital acting made the faces look worse than they actually are, that was the biggest problem (and a bit of a waxy look from afar).
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
It just happens to be the only big budget city this gen so far... But the tech and especially the asset quality is still largely stuck in last gen. But we've had this ad nauseum in this thread already..SM2 was a huge letdown for many of us especially after what was originally "promised"with that target render. The hilarious cutscenes were just the icing on the cake.
The only other city is from watch dogs 3.

Robocop if you ignore the smaller scale.

Cyberpunk is technically a last gen game but we can include it aswell.
 
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RaduN

Member
I know its Rockstar and all that, but its hard not to compare with RDR 2 from 2018 that still looks amazing on these aspects

What?

Rdr2 is "vaseline: the game'". Everything is "shiny" from characters faces to most animals and sufaces. Even the >rusty< gun was shiny fcs.
 

Hugare

Member
What?

Rdr2 is "vaseline: the game'". Everything is "shiny" from characters faces to most animals and sufaces. Even the >rusty< gun was shiny fcs.
Yeah, nah

Its nowhere near as stylized as this and the first game. Some wooden floors in the first game were more reflective than metal.

PBR is much, much better in RDR 2. Not even comparable. Literally, cause both games are going for different angles.

Look at the horses backs shining so bright that they look totally white. Looks like Agro from Shadow of the Colossus.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
What?

Rdr2 is "vaseline: the game'". Everything is "shiny" from characters faces to most animals and sufaces. Even the >rusty< gun was shiny fcs.
Isn't vaseline look caused by the image being soft? (Even on pc)

Color wise it doesn't look overly shiny

WCCFreddeadredemption231.jpg


I thought the game had more natural colors than most games tbh.
Is my memory that badly fucked?
 
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DanielG165

Member
What?

Rdr2 is "vaseline: the game'". Everything is "shiny" from characters faces to most animals and sufaces. Even the >rusty< gun was shiny fcs.
It is not. I regularly play RDR2 near maxed out at 4K DLSS, and there’s no “shine” not “Vaseline” to speak of. It is, to this day, one of the best, most realistic looking games ever made, with some of the best draw distances and skyboxes in a game, some of the best texture work and surfaces in a game, as well as lighting and overall image quality.

Even on One X, where the game ran at significantly lower settings to hit its native 4K output (which is still just hellishly impressive for that machine), there was not a vaseline look to speak of.
 
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RaduN

Member
It is not. I regularly play RDR2 near maxed out at 4K DLSS, and there’s no “shine” not “Vaseline” to speak of. It is, to this day, one of the best, most realistic looking games ever made, with some of the best draw distances and skyboxes in a game, some of the best texture work and surfaces in a game, as well as lighting and overall image quality.

Even on One X, where the game ran at significantly lower settings to hit its native 4K output (which is still just hellishly impressive for that machine), there was not a vaseline look to speak of.


I only just finished Rdr2 a few days ago for the 1st time (by finished i mean the main ch arc)

Yeah, it's full of vaseline. Didn't bother me one bit. Most games have this shine. Nothing to do with distance or sky boxes. The game looked good.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
There are way better looking parts of the game as well, I'm sure you are aware.
The only great looking thing about part 1 was the grass, and foilage in general.

Horrendous cutscenes, facial animations, direction, animations, NPC's

This looks a gen ahead in all of those fronts. Production values have taken a noticeable leap.

I guess we will see
 

Sid91

Neo Member
The only great looking thing about part 1 was the grass, and foilage in general.

Horrendous cutscenes, facial animations, direction, animations, NPC's

This looks a gen ahead in all of those fronts. Production values have taken a noticeable leap.

I guess we will see
This absolutely does not look a gen ahead at all, similar to how less of a graphical jump there was between Spider-Man to Spider-Man 2. We shall see but hoping for the best.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
The only great looking thing about part 1 was the grass, and foilage in general.

Horrendous cutscenes, facial animations, direction, animations, NPC's

This looks a gen ahead in all of those fronts. Production values have taken a noticeable leap.

I guess we will see
I'm gonna cry like a bitch if they still use precanned dogshit animations for kills instead of a tlou2 dynamic system...

Imagine having no ragdoll and bodies that glue on the terrain even when half their body is off a cliff in your realistic looking games in 2025...
 
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Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I'm gonna cry like a bitch if they still use precanned dogshit animations for kills instead of a tlou2 dynamic system...

Imagine having no ragdoll and bodies that glue on the terrain even when half their body is off a cliff in your realistic looking games in 2025...
Now THAT I agree with

I hated the animations in the first one. Literally every enemy died the same way. Made me hate the combat

It was egregious coming right off TLOU2
 

Flabagast

Member
it's it funny that the trailer was announced "running on PS5" and not the Pro?

imho it confirms that PS5 will continue to get all the focus, and upgrades on the Pro will only be marginal at best. Even last gen post 2016 games were most often shown running on PS4 pro.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The actual reveal was even more bullshit


this looks better than the sequel on ps5.

Sony developers are such lying cunts. Spiderman 2 wasnt the first big downgrade. HFW's first teaser was clearly pre-rendered. Days Gone's first gameplay demo had RTGI or something. TLOU2's entire demo was faked. And GoT was clearly not running on a PS4 pro despite what they said.
 
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Trilobit

Member
Now THAT I agree with

I hated the animations in the first one. Literally every enemy died the same way. Made me hate the combat

It was egregious coming right off TLOU2

The most disgusting part was when you unlocked the kick-attack and you couldn't kick enemies off cliffs. They got stuck at invisible walls instead. Coming off Spider-Man 1 it felt like someone had thrown me back a decade in time.

it's it funny that the trailer was announced "running on PS5" and not the Pro?

imho it confirms that PS5 will continue to get all the focus, and upgrades on the Pro will only be marginal at best. Even last gen post 2016 games were most often shown running on PS4 pro.

As it should be. Pro is not a successor, it's a "niche" segment.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I'm gonna cry like a bitch if they still use precanned dogshit animations for kills instead of a tlou2 dynamic system...

Imagine having no ragdoll and bodies that glue on the terrain even when half their body is off a cliff in your realistic looking games in 2025...
Prepare to cry like a bitch. The final few shots of the trailer show sword animations and takedowns and its the same exact animations from the first game.
 

DanielG165

Member
For a refresh of everyones memory here is the absolute BS trailer they try to pass off as a PS4 Pro version back at E3 2018

Still havent played GOT because I simply wont put up anymore with being lied to like that. Enough is Enough.

That reveal trailer must’ve been running on a 3090 or something lol. The final product, even on PC with all setting maxed out, is being hard carried by its amazing art style. It’s a beautiful game in that regard, not fidelity at all. The canned animations with the excuse apparently being, “they’re inspired by old samurai films”, didn’t help either. GoY is a notable improvement over GoT.

The animations look about the same, though.
 
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GoY is a notable improvement over GoT.
something on new hardware being a "notable improvement" over a last gen product is such a low bar, though.
When you come from games utilizing UE5s nanite, lumen and metahuman systems at least half-decently something like GoY looks downright cheap the moment you look behind the artstyle. And even with all that artistic distracion so to speak the animations, materials, shaders, models, assets....they are all not nearly up to what you`d expect from a AAA product in 2024.

I´m slowly starting to agree with SlimySnake SlimySnake that we`d probably have been better off if everybody would have just adopted UE5 this gen......
 
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Bitstream

Member
aww, I never got around to playing GoT, didn't realize the early footage was all bullshit. Worth a playthrough despite the downgrades?
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
aww, I never got around to playing GoT, didn't realize the early footage was all bullshit. Worth a playthrough despite the downgrades?
It's sony samurai assassins creed, so an ac game with better combat (if you like parry style over souls light, i don't) and slightly better plot, i think that both bayek and kassandra are way more charming characters than jin but tsushi has better side characters by far (mostly bow master and old lady).
 
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Flabagast

Member
aww, I never got around to playing GoT, didn't realize the early footage was all bullshit. Worth a playthrough despite the downgrades?
Overall it's really pretty average imho. The game is beautiful and has nice combat, but the open world design is really rote and feels ancient, even for last gen, and imho the story is not really interesting despite some nice moments.
6-7/10 game for me, bought it day one in 2020 and I was pretty disappointed (but I think there is a lot of potential to improve bigly in the sequel)

Some people love it though, so your mileage may vary.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
this looks better than the sequel on ps5.

Sony developers are such lying cunts. Spiderman 2 wasnt the first big downgrade. HFW's first teaser was clearly pre-rendered. Days Gone's first gameplay demo had RTGI or something. TLOU2's entire demo was faked. And GoT was clearly not running on a PS4 pro despite what they said.
I didn't wanted to say that to not sound too negative on the game, but that's what i thought aswell tbh.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Overall it's really pretty average imho. The game is beautiful and has nice combat, but the open world design is really rote and feels ancient, even for last gen, and imho the story is not really interesting despite some nice moments.
6-7/10 game for me, bought it day one in 2020 and I was pretty disappointed (but I think there is a lot of potential to improve bigly in the sequel)

Some people love it though, so your mileage may vary.
I will say that the art style and some particularly good content like the legends tales are worth a 7, 6 is more outlaws\valhalla territory imo.
 

DanielG165

Member
aww, I never got around to playing GoT, didn't realize the early footage was all bullshit. Worth a playthrough despite the downgrades?
It’s properly alright, with some genuinely cool moments sprinkled throughout, and tons of flair. If you’re a fan of samurais and ninjas, or just ancient Japanese culture like I am, then it’s a solid samurai game. It doesn’t break any ground, and the combat and movement are both a little wonky/janky, but ultimately a fun time.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
aww, I never got around to playing GoT, didn't realize the early footage was all bullshit. Worth a playthrough despite the downgrades?
Yes, it's a great game with a great combat system and the same great sony storytelling you cant get anywhere else. At least not at this level of fidelity.

The game leans hard on art style and cinematography so despite the downgrades, i never had any issues with the graphics outside of the draw distance which they carefully mask most of the time by adding hills and trees that mask the draw distance.

open world is the same ubisoft style trash, but there are a lot of really cool solo fights you will encounter outside of your typical far cry style outposts. overall, if you dont like the open world just do the story. its a relatively short 20 hour campaign that has some great moments and several likeable characters. Jin's journey is also very fulfilling coming off of TLOU2 which felt hollow and empty.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is disappointing. The HZD remake has the same amazing character models and near field detail but the same trash draw distance despite being a PS5 only title. Compare it to Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws and even Ghost of Tsushima and its clear that GG just cant figure out how to push the draw distance. Resorting instead to hide everything with fog.

54018624717_619adc3c6e_h.jpg


Love how good this character model looks during gameplay though.
54018624712_52a6590029_h.jpg
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Sony studios not using each other's tech is extremely frustrating. SP shouldve been using GG's facial animation/shading tech. Especially for side quests. GG should be using whatever the hell SP is doing to push the draw distance. ND should be sharing their motion matching tech with Sucker Punch. Bend should be sharing their horde tech with all of these games that have big epic war scenes in their finales but lack any kind of massive NPC battles.

It's so frustrating to see so many talented studios all just fail to work together. Instead going solo like with this fuck you got mine attitude. Only problem is that they can no longer compete with Epic who is light years ahead of them. The textures and asset quality in GoT and HFW seems to be barely an upgrade probably because they still dont have nanite geometry systems in place. No Lumen type software GI system either. No RT reflections despite insomniac having perfected it over the course of 4 game releases.

No one seems to be using the Cerny super secret IO sauce either to give us that generational leap in asset quality that Cerny and other developers promised as a result of faster SSD streaming.

What's funny is that fucking bethesda gave us realtime GI (albeit software based) and a massive boost in asset fidelity before any of these Sony studios. Bethesda. Arguably the most technologically challenged AAA studio in the business.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Sony studios not using each other's tech is extremely frustrating. SP shouldve been using GG's facial animation/shading tech. Especially for side quests. GG should be using whatever the hell SP is doing to push the draw distance. ND should be sharing their motion matching tech with Sucker Punch. Bend should be sharing their horde tech with all of these games that have big epic war scenes in their finales but lack any kind of massive NPC battles.

It's so frustrating to see so many talented studios all just fail to work together. Instead going solo like with this fuck you got mine attitude. Only problem is that they can no longer compete with Epic who is light years ahead of them. The textures and asset quality in GoT and HFW seems to be barely an upgrade probably because they still dont have nanite geometry systems in place. No Lumen type software GI system either. No RT reflections despite insomniac having perfected it over the course of 4 game releases.

No one seems to be using the Cerny super secret IO sauce either to give us that generational leap in asset quality that Cerny and other developers promised as a result of faster SSD streaming.

What's funny is that fucking bethesda gave us realtime GI (albeit software based) and a massive boost in asset fidelity before any of these Sony studios. Bethesda. Arguably the most technologically challenged AAA studio in the business.
I always wondered what the fuck is the ICE team doing if they don't even share tech between studios.
 
This is disappointing. The HZD remake has the same amazing character models and near field detail but the same trash draw distance despite being a PS5 only title. Compare it to Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws and even Ghost of Tsushima and its clear that GG just cant figure out how to push the draw distance. Resorting instead to hide everything with fog.

54018624717_619adc3c6e_h.jpg


Love how good this character model looks during gameplay though.
54018624712_52a6590029_h.jpg
The new Lead Core tech at Guerrilla was previously focused on loading and streaming systems so it would be surprising if improvements on this aspect are not planned for their next game. Maybe we'll already see this on Sunday with DS 2 if we see more gameplay.
There, technologically speaking, the remaster does not add anything major compared to Forbidden West.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The new Lead Core tech at Guerrilla was previously focused on loading and streaming systems so it would be surprising if improvements on this aspect are not planned for their next game. Maybe we'll already see this on Sunday with DS 2 if we see more gameplay.
There, technologically speaking, the remaster does not add anything major compared to Forbidden West.
DS2 has the draw distance and improved faces but the asset quality and geometry is still dated compared to UE5.

Even Decima doesnt have a nanite equivalent.

Lets hope Bend is still using UE5 despite the rumors suggesting otherwise.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
DS2 has the draw distance and improved faces but the asset quality and geometry is still dated compared to UE5.

Even Decima doesnt have a nanite equivalent.

Lets hope Bend is still using UE5 despite the rumors suggesting otherwise.
Are face really noticeably improved or it's just a matter of famous actors just looking more real than made up faces, the brain make more of a connection with something that actually exist.

Also, kojima doesn't turn his real life actors into lab experiments, he goes for perfect 1:1 matching, he doesn't have an agenda like sony.

I think the most impressive model is the little child, very impressive.
 
I dunno maybe I’m softer on ghosts of Yotei because I’ve recalibrated my expectations for graphics this gen and especially from Sony first party studios

Previously, like SlimySnake SlimySnake , I had hoped the last half of the gen, after crossgen ended would see a return to 30fps and pushing fidelity to the max like every generation before, but after the pro reveal and hearing Cerny talk it’s clear to me the 60fps crowd won and Sony’s boner for 60fps will never go away now. For better or worse.

You can have a generational leap, or you can have 60fps, you can’t have both unless the console cost $1000+. So given that they’ve gone with the latter, essentially rendering the PS5 a 5-6 tflop machine, this is about what I expect. Maybe ND will push technical boundaries a little more but uhhh yeah, Demon Souls, Yotei, Spider-Man 2, I think this is as good as it gets until the PS6 guys. These are 60fps games, souped up for fidelity mode.
 
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It look like ChiefDada ChiefDada was right about Forbidden West, according to Digital Foundry, performance mode on Pro is visually better than fidelity mode on PS5 but obviously runs at 60 FPS. That's interesting to know that Guerrilla has developed a completely new anti-aliasing reconstruction method that looks incredibly impressive that they will be using in future titles.
Guerrilla Games' Horizon Forbidden West was included in the Pro reveal, but we found it hard to describe exactly what they'd changed in the new version of the game.

The answer is pretty fascinating - rather than traditional checkerboarding or PSSR, Guerilla is using a new anti-aliasing reconstruction method that looks incredibly impressive when it comes to stability and resolving fine detail, like in foliage or character weapons. The image does look a little soft in comparison to the pin-sharp TAA in the original, but for our money the new game had the best image quality in the whole preview event.

The upshot of this is that this new 60fps performance mode on PS5 Pro actually looks better than the old quality mode on the base PS5. There's also a quality mode that renders the game out at a full native 4K much of the time. Both modes also benefit from improved lighting, better visual effects and changes to hair and skin rendering.
Forbidden West with FFVII seems to be the most impressive game running on Pro.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I dunno maybe I’m softer on ghosts of Yotei because I’ve recalibrated my expectations for graphics this gen and especially from Sony first party studios

Previously, like SlimySnake SlimySnake , I had hoped the last half of the gen, after crossgen ended would see a return to 30fps and pushing fidelity to the max like every generation before, but after the pro reveal and hearing Cerny talk it’s clear to me the 60fps crowd won and Sony’s boner for 60fps will never go away now. For better or worse.

You can have a generational leap, or you can have 60fps, you can’t have both unless the console cost $1000+. So given that they’ve gone with the latter, essentially rendering the PS5 a 5-6 tflop machine, this is about what I expect. Maybe ND will push technical boundaries a little more but uhhh yeah, Demon Souls, Yotei, Spider-Man 2, I think this is as good as it gets until the PS6 guys. These are 60fps games, souped up for fidelity mode.
There is lots to like here. I went softer on graphics last year while everyone here gave me shit for finding star wars, ff16, starfield and spiderman 2 impressive and next gen at times. I just think that we all expected Sony studios to blow away ubisoft's efforts with AC shadows and Star wars outlaws, but it seems to be roughly on par with both games. With some strengths and weakness, no big Matrix Awakens, Wukong, Hellblade 2 or Marvel's 1943 leap we were expecting from sony studios.

This is next gen enough for me, but not awe-inspiring which is unfair to sony studios, but frankly those are my expectations to manage since i put them on a pedestal for so long. Turns out they dont have a secret sauce and the industry has caught up to them, while Epic has completely exceeded them.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I dunno maybe I’m softer on ghosts of Yotei because I’ve recalibrated my expectations for graphics this gen and especially from Sony first party studios

Previously, like SlimySnake SlimySnake , I had hoped the last half of the gen, after crossgen ended would see a return to 30fps and pushing fidelity to the max like every generation before, but after the pro reveal and hearing Cerny talk it’s clear to me the 60fps crowd won and Sony’s boner for 60fps will never go away now. For better or worse.

You can have a generational leap, or you can have 60fps, you can’t have both unless the console cost $1000+. So given that they’ve gone with the latter, essentially rendering the PS5 a 5-6 tflop machine, this is about what I expect. Maybe ND will push technical boundaries a little more but uhhh yeah, Demon Souls, Yotei, Spider-Man 2, I think this is as good as it gets until the PS6 guys. These are 60fps games, souped up for fidelity mode.
No chance for the next nd game to be at 60, them and rockstar are still gonna use the good ol 30fps lock.

The moment we see 60 frames from these 2, we are gonna know for certain that this is the most terrible timeline for graphic.
 
No chance for the next nd game to be at 60, them and rockstar are still gonna use the good ol 30fps lock.

The moment we see 60 frames from these 2, we are gonna know for certain that this is the most terrible timeline for graphic.
GTA 6 sure, ND? I dunno man. These PlayStation studios have lost their way, they won’t lead graphics anymore like they did. I think ND will do 60FPS on their next game.

ND and GG with Horizon 3 are the only hopes, the last bastions I have for any sort of graphically impressive PS5 only exclusive. Maybe bluepoint as well but I’m positive they’ll do 60fps. I watched a demon souls behind the scenes once and they talked about 30fps in such a comically disgusted way you’d swear it was 3fps
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Are face really noticeably improved or it's just a matter of famous actors just looking more real than made up faces, the brain make more of a connection with something that actually exist.

Also, kojima doesn't turn his real life actors into lab experiments, he goes for perfect 1:1 matching, he doesn't have an agenda like sony.

I think the most impressive model is the little child, very impressive.
yeah, better lighting, skin shaders, hair rendering compared to the first.

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