Support NeoGAF

[SlimySnake]

Maybe, but screenshots can only tell so much when there's many other things adding rendering ms that only shows in motion.
But I guess insignificant stuff like unparalled but responsive animations/motion blending, dynamic GI, capsule AO, particles.. the destruction you just mentioned:

AI, high native resolution, clean IQ, 60fps, zero stutter.. well nothing counts. It's all resource free..

You mean these:

I haven't played Spider-Man 2 because I don't feel like supporting it, but played Callisto Protocol, Alan Wake 2, Wukong and Silent Hill 2 up until you reach the town as I'm waiting for Pro due to those awful shimmering reflections everywhere, bad IQ, absent AO on vegetation, downgraded lighting..

All those games look undeniably worse than Part I in their 60fps modes.
Callisto Protocol looked absolutely insane in screenshot to the point I claimed at one point it was the best looking game ever, and as soon as I started it when they released it on Plus I immediately noticed every PBR material visually shared the same properties almost the same way those old UE3 games did, not to mention the entirely fucking missing shadows.
Wukong is an unresponsive, pixelated, dithered mess, but with incredible looking enviroments and characters and assets, Alan Wake 2 has many good things, some excellent, but also sub par skin shaders, an abysmal IQ, laughable and distracting as fuck reflections, extremely weird lighting outdoor with some genuine PS2 looking stuff like vegetation appearing from thin air in front of the player with no LOD whatsoever, and that's something you can even notice in the PC max image I posted previously (and it's much worse than that, as if it was even possible, on PS5), like what the actual 1995 RenderMan fuck is this?

Here your "PS4 game" in comparison:









And as for Avatar, you mean this Avatar?



It's obvious to you the concept of a "whole package" doesn't mean anything, only good stuff here and there, mostly on PC and automated, when everyone knows Naughty Dog's phylosophy for a decade at this point is wanting to do everything at the same time; good and responsive animations, stable framerate, good IQ, 100% hand-painted textures (all of them), original assets, artifact free/always perfect looking AO, capsule AO for dynamic soft shadows and baked light occlusion, volumetric lighting, volumetric shadows on water, motion blending, engaging AI, physics, sub surface scattering across the board for characters, water and vegetation, cloth physics, interactive foliage, impeccable PRB, and the countless little details they love.

But naturally none of this matters.

And as for HellBlade 2, if getting laughed at by morons like S Schmendrick after wasting that much time typing basic facts only wasn't enough to convince my ass to get the fuck out of this Thread, you mentioning the barely interactive 2024 30fps black bars UE5 Hellblade 2 did the trick.

Have fun.

So you did play them, but in the 60 fps mode? The modes that are specifically lacking rt effects and massively paired down settings? why??
That would be like me shitting on Red Dead Redemption 2 by playing the game at the lowest possible settings on PC.

And just so we are clear, I played Callisto on PS5 and only then bought it on PC afterwards. It looked glorious even on PS5. FF16, RE Village too. Plenty of third party games on PS5 look better than TLOU1. It's not even close.

I also played TLOU1 remake on pc maxed out with way better settings than you did on the PS5.

All PS5 games have now been ported to PC so I dont want to hear these bullshit PC vs PS5 excuses anymore.

ND's 'philosophy' was targeting 30 fps and pushing as many graphics effects as possible. Going back to Uncharted 1. thats 7 games. All those graphics effects you mentioned above, were all in TLOU2 on base PS4 at 30 fps. They make one game at 60 fps and you pretend like THATS their philosophy? I thought you said this was a game they made in 1 year as a backup project. So which is it? Is this what to expect from them going forward or a true next gen leap like rockstar is offering? you cant have it both ways.

Lastly, i love how you are stanning for ND for having artifact free pristine IQ games when the latest PS5 Pro PSSR comparisons point out exactly what I was saying for fucking years. The blurry textures, the poor level of detail on characters and just a muddy IQ that held back that game because ND refused to implement 4k checkerboarding like GG, SSM, Sucker Punch, and Bend did to resolve their textures way better than ND's flat 1440p image. On the PS4 Pro, let alone the PS5.

It only took them 8 fucking years to rectify that mistake. But yes, they are geniuses over there incapable of making mistakes...

 

[SlimySnake]

This gif is infuriating because I went the entire game without seeing ANY of this destruction. I went back and tested out the destruction with the explosive bow and found that it is extremely limiting. You have some book cases, some pots and pans, and some windows that shatter and thats it. No furniture. No lamps. No office chairs or desks. its like they started adding physics and then stopped after adding them to 3 objects. If the game had control level of destruction then i wouldnt have been as harsh, but its a 1:1 remake and they didnt bother changing ANY of the layout or add anything new to the environment so none of these fancy physics ever show up in your normal playthrough.

 

[SlimySnake]

I also find it hilarious this notion that ND artists are leagues ahead of other artists when it comes to hand painted textures or animations or volumetrics. sorry, but this isnt 2020. Times have changed. Plenty of third party devs are able to hand craft the shit out of their games. It's not just quixel assets, these artists have one upped ND at their own game with gorgeous cinematography you'd expect from an ND title.

ND's TLOU1 simply does not have the same baked lighting, volumetric effects, textures, AO, and overall level of detail as these games, and the artists from these studios are clearly not relying on UE5 features to copy paste quixel assets. These games are made by exceptional artists at the top of their game hand crafting scene after scene after scene. No one who has played these games would argue otherwise.

Even when it comes to animations, Wukong doesn't get enough credit for them. Probably because it's a fast paced game, but the animation work by game science is the best ive seen alongside hellblade 2 and callisto both of which are well ahead of TLOU1.

the cutscene direction might be lacking in Avatar and Outlaws, but not in Callisto, Silent Hill 2, Hellblade 2 and Black Myth. James has the best fucking facial expressions ive ever seen in a realtime cutscene. Black Myth's cutscenes are lit like a hollywood movie. That era of ND being kings is long gone. Im sure they will return with a bang, but let's not fucking hold TLOU1 as some kind of bastion of realtime graphics.

 

[Msamy]

So you did play them, but in the 60 fps mode? The modes that are specifically lacking rt effects and massively paired down settings? why??
That would be like me shitting on Red Dead Redemption 2 by playing the game at the lowest possible settings on PC.

And just so we are clear, I played Callisto on PS5 and only then bought it on PC afterwards. It looked glorious even on PS5. FF16, RE Village too. Plenty of third party games on PS5 look better than TLOU1. It's not even close.

I also played TLOU1 remake on pc maxed out with way better settings than you did on the PS5.

All PS5 games have now been ported to PC so I dont want to hear these bullshit PC vs PS5 excuses anymore.

ND's 'philosophy' was targeting 30 fps and pushing as many graphics effects as possible. Going back to Uncharted 1. thats 7 games. All those graphics effects you mentioned above, were all in TLOU2 on base PS4 at 30 fps. They make one game at 60 fps and you pretend like THATS their philosophy? I thought you said this was a game they made in 1 year as a backup project. So which is it? Is this what to expect from them going forward or a true next gen leap like rockstar is offering? you cant have it both ways.

Lastly, i love how you are stanning for ND for having artifact free pristine IQ games when the latest PS5 Pro PSSR comparisons point out exactly what I was saying for fucking years. The blurry textures, the poor level of detail on characters and just a muddy IQ that held back that game because ND refused to implement 4k checkerboarding like GG, SSM, Sucker Punch, and Bend did to resolve their textures way better than ND's flat 1440p image. On the PS4 Pro, let alone the PS5.

It only took them 8 fucking years to rectify that mistake. But yes, they are geniuses over there incapable of making mistakes...

I Really don't know what 60 fps warriors doing in this theard may be they can't read it's title, don't bother yourself respond to them they don't see anything if it's not 60fps

 

[luca_29_bg]

Fine.

Are we sure SH2 doesnt use nanite? At times, it uses these extremely highly detailed assets that scream nanite. This particular room even had a burst of wind blow in and scatter a bunch of these books and files on the ground. Amazing physics. I wish the entire game was like this.

Silent hill 2 Remake it uses nanite but not for everything, there is a mod on nexus that can disable nanite, to gain some fps.

 

[Vick]

So you did play them, but in the 60 fps mode? The modes that are specifically lacking rt effects and massively paired down settings? why??

Likely for the opposite reason you play games on PC at 30fps.

I also played TLOU1 remake on pc maxed out with way better settings than you did on the PS5.

Please enlighten me on a single setting that looks better on PC, because last I checked that version only has visual downgrades of all kinds across the entire board even after countless patches.

All PS5 games have now been ported to PC so I dont want to hear these bullshit PC vs PS5 excuses anymore.

Which translates into let's mock developers by saying they're not worthy because of how their PS5 games compare with others rocking RT settings made for 4090's, instead of how those very games run the same machine..

And this is how they do, according to SlimySnake :

Avatar drops to 720p and does not hold 60 fps. Alan Wake 2 looks like a shimmering mess at 60 fps

Only sony first party games have decent 60 fps modes and they dont even use nanite or lumen.

ND's 'philosophy' was targeting 30 fps and pushing as many graphics effects as possible. Going back to Uncharted 1. thats 7 games. All those graphics effects you mentioned above, were all in TLOU2 on base PS4 at 30 fps. They make one game at 60 fps and you pretend like THATS their philosophy? I thought you said this was a game they made in 1 year as a backup project. So which is it? Is this what to expect from them going forward or a true next gen leap like rockstar is offering? you cant have it both ways.

What are you on about? The demonstrable "whole package" concept I've detailed is their philosophy.

"Stable framerate" goes with the trend, last gen it was 30fps and this Gen is 60fps, so of course they've built their game entirely around that.
Imagine releasing Part I at 30fps-only when the TLOU Remaster ran at 1800p 60fps on PS4 Pro..

And yes, I obviously expect their years-in-delopment full current gen game to look better than a 1 year development/multiple studios effort/PS3 Remake.

Lastly, i love how you are stanning for ND for having artifact free pristine IQ games when the latest PS5 Pro PSSR comparisons point out exactly what I was saying for fucking years. The blurry textures, the poor level of detail on characters and just a muddy IQ that held back that game because ND refused to implement 4k checkerboarding like GG, SSM, Sucker Punch, and Bend did to resolve their textures way better than ND's flat 1440p image. On the PS4 Pro, let alone the PS5.
It only took them 8 fucking years to rectify that mistake. But yes, they are geniuses over there incapable of making mistakes...

Super ironic considering the latest PS5 Pro patch got rid of their flawless TAA on regular PS5 in favor of a sharper solution and it's a colossal downgrade across the board. Instability, double edges, loss of color shades, shimmering vegetation, hair and alpha. Game went from a pre-rendered look to that awful raw PC version aesthetic. I can only hope it's better on Pro or I'll have to keep it unpatched on my main PS5 for life.

This gif is infuriating because I went the entire game without seeing ANY of this destruction. I went back and tested out the destruction with the explosive bow and found that it is extremely limiting. You have some book cases, some pots and pans, and some windows that shatter and thats it. No furniture. No lamps. No office chairs or desks. its like they started adding physics and then stopped after adding them to 3 objects. If the game had control level of destruction then i wouldnt have been as harsh, but its a 1:1 remake and they didnt bother changing ANY of the layout or add anything new to the environment so none of these fancy physics ever show up in your normal playthrough.

Guess you expected Battlefield Bad Company destruction in a survival, linear, visual remake of a PS3 game..

ND's TLOU1 simply does not have the same baked lighting, volumetric effects, textures, AO, and overall level of detail as these games, and the artists from these studios are clearly not relying on UE5 features to copy paste quixel assets. These games are made by exceptional artists at the top of their game hand crafting scene after scene after scene. No one who has played these games would argue otherwise.

Alright then, I've frankly had more than enough and there's absolutely nothing whatsoever I can gain from this Thread given its participants apparently, so given I'd love stop wasting my time in here just share equivalents of this:



Preferably possible at the same time as this (because that's what I meant with volumetric shadows, but of course this is the kind of ultra-niche stuff ND games are filled with that you and the others laughing would never notice):







And this:



And this:



And while we're at it this kind of reflections:





Including planar/RT-like mirrors (last I checked not working on PC) in a fully deferred pipeline.

And even water interaction (also downgraded on PC) because why not:



Preferably also on games that run at rock solid 60fps with no stutter at native 1440p on PS5, with equal character models, PCSS shadows, SSS, artifact free AO, equal animations/motion blending, physics etc. all at the same time while allowing for chaotic encounters against at least 12 enemies simultaneusly all with great AI and many particles on screen at any given time since this all has computational cost counting towards the final image it's possible to deliver.

Maybe S Schmendrick , S SABRE220 , Msamy , T teokrazia and all the other jesters you're being supported by could help you.

Or just continue posting utter garbage like artists responsible for Outlaws and other similar trash being not only on par but better than Naughty Dog, and stuff of this nature you could only read in a place like this.

I Really don't know what 60 fps warriors doing in this theard may be they can't read it's title, don't bother yourself respond to them they don't see anything if it's not 60fps

Huh?
If you want to compare developers output and talent, and you want when you say ND aren't worthy anymore because in 4 years they only made a Remake, a Remaster and a cancelled project, you necessarily need to do so in an equal comparison.. but I guess dropping the brain is a requirement for posting in this Thread?

Either that or being fucking bipolar like the guy you're all supporting:

yes, games have had next gen visuals before. Alan Wake, Avatar, Demon Souls, but this is like playing a Naughty Dog game. it's just a cut above the rest. It's not just fancy tech, it's actually beautiful like a Naughty Dog game.

But i suppose rockstar and naughty dog are execptions to the rule so who knows. Maybe we get 1-2 games looking like this.

Posts from this year 2024, but yeah "it's not 2020 anymore" and apparently now even Outlaws devs are above Naughty Dog.. go figure.

 

[Msamy]

Likely for the opposite reason you play games on PC at 30fps.


Please enlighten me on a single setting that looks better on PC, because last I checked that version only has visual downgrades of all kinds across the entire board even after countless patches.


Which translates into let's mock developers by saying they're not worthy because of how their PS5 games compare with others rocking RT settings made for 4090's, instead of how those very games run the same machine..

And this is how they do, according to SlimySnake :




What are you on about? The demonstrable "whole package" concept I've detailed is their philosophy.

"Stable framerate" goes with the trend, last gen it was 30fps and this Gen is 60fps, so of course they've built their game entirely around that.
Imagine releasing Part I at 30fps-only when the TLOU Remaster ran at 1800p 60fps on PS4 Pro..

And yes, I obviously expect their years-in-delopment full current gen game to look better than a 1 year development/multiple studios effort/PS3 Remake.


Super ironic considering the latest PS5 Pro patch got rid of their flawless TAA on regular PS5 in favor of a sharper solution and it's a colossal downgrade across the board. Instability, double edges, loss of color shades, shimmering vegetation, hair and alpha. Game went from a pre-rendered look to that awful raw PC version aesthetic. I can only hope it's better on Pro or I'll have to keep it unpatched on my main PS5 for life.

Guess you expected Battlefield Bad Company destruction in a survival, linear, visual remake of a PS3 game..


Alright then, I've frankly had more than enough and there's absolutely nothing whatsoever I can gain from this Thread given its participants apparently, so given I'd love stop wasting my time in here just share equivalents of this:



Preferably possible at the same time as this (because that's what I meant with volumetric shadows, but of course this is the kind of ultra-niche stuff ND games are filled with that you and the others laughing would never notice):







And this:



And this:



And while we're at it this kind of reflections:





Including planar/RT-like mirrors (last I checked not working on PC) in a fully deferred pipeline.

And even water interaction (also downgraded on PC) because why not:



Preferably also on games that run at rock solid 60fps with no stutter at native 1440p on PS5, with equal character models, PCSS shadows, SSS, artifact free AO, equal animations/motion blending, physics etc. all at the same time while allowing for chaotic encounters against at least 12 enemies simultaneusly all with great AI and many particles on screen at any given time since this all has computational cost counting towards the final image it's possible to deliver.

Maybe S Schmendrick , S SABRE220 , Msamy , T teokrazia and all the other jesters you're being supported by could help you.

Or just continue posting utter garbage like artists responsible for Outlaws and other similar trash being not only on par but better than Naughty Dog, and stuff of this nature you could only read in a place like this.


Huh?
If you want to compare developers output and talent, and you want when you say ND aren't worthy anymore because in 4 years they only made a Remake, a Remaster and a cancelled project, you necessarily need to do so in an equal comparison.. but I guess dropping the brain is a requirement for posting in this Thread?

Either that or being fucking bipolar like the guy you're all supporting:




Posts from this year 2024, but yeah "it's not 2020 anymore" and apparently now even Outlaws devs are above Naughty Dog.. go figure.

No one here talk about ND talent, they are my best developer's alongside rockstar what we attack are their bullshit output in this gen, I trust ND next game will be my favorite game, But what they did until now are just bullshit ask anyone here who care or love graphics they will till you that last of us part 2 last gen version looks better than current gen last of us part 1 so it's basically last gen title even developers themselves confirmed they remake it with last of us part 2 as standard, but this just bullshit anyone know they can do better than that and don't talk to me about 60fps no one here care about that, if you go back to last gen early and mid years naughty dog released last of us remaster in ps4 early with huge graphics and features upgrades over ps3 version which it's clearly not the case with last of us remake which looks worse than ps4 TLOU p2 version, lastly go play wukong, hellblade 2, silent hill 2 and Avatar but in fidelity 30 fps mode before you post those pics and you will see the difference, you see no one here like your posts unlike slimy because every single one here know the difference between true current gen title graphics and just bullshit remake with last gen graphics or worse considering p2 looks better in some areas which many here agree with this, in the end we don't attack the ND or sony studios talent, you can find me here defend sucker punch and ghost 2 graphics and I believe that they upgrades their tech, what we attack is sony missing with those developers or developers themselves don't bother themselves to add some new graphics features in those remakes and clear example for this is naughty dog themselves in TLOU remaster last gen you can see how they add new graphics features to a remaster not a full remake with no single new current gen graphics feature.

 

[Schmendrick]

And as for HellBlade 2, if getting laughed at by morons like S Schmendrick after wasting that much time typing basic facts only wasn't enough to convince my ass to get the fuck out of this Thread, you mentioning the barely interactive 2024 30fps black bars UE5 Hellblade 2 did the trick.

Have fun.

You don`t seem to get the very premise of this thread with your focus on 60fps console modes. HB2 is not a good game, but the tech is top tier, which is what this thread is about.
Also not sharing your very controversial opinion or not blindly accepting your declaration of "facts" makes people morons.......ok

 

[GymWolf]

Stay calm boys.

 

[SlimySnake]

Likely for the opposite reason you play games on PC at 30fps.


Please enlighten me on a single setting that looks better on PC, because last I checked that version only has visual downgrades of all kinds across the entire board even after countless patches.


Which translates into let's mock developers by saying they're not worthy because of how their PS5 games compare with others rocking RT settings made for 4090's, instead of how those very games run the same machine..

And this is how they do, according to SlimySnake :




What are you on about? The demonstrable "whole package" concept I've detailed is their philosophy.

"Stable framerate" goes with the trend, last gen it was 30fps and this Gen is 60fps, so of course they've built their game entirely around that.
Imagine releasing Part I at 30fps-only when the TLOU Remaster ran at 1800p 60fps on PS4 Pro..

And yes, I obviously expect their years-in-delopment full current gen game to look better than a 1 year development/multiple studios effort/PS3 Remake.


Super ironic considering the latest PS5 Pro patch got rid of their flawless TAA on regular PS5 in favor of a sharper solution and it's a colossal downgrade across the board. Instability, double edges, loss of color shades, shimmering vegetation, hair and alpha. Game went from a pre-rendered look to that awful raw PC version aesthetic. I can only hope it's better on Pro or I'll have to keep it unpatched on my main PS5 for life.

Guess you expected Battlefield Bad Company destruction in a survival, linear, visual remake of a PS3 game..


Alright then, I've frankly had more than enough and there's absolutely nothing whatsoever I can gain from this Thread given its participants apparently, so given I'd love stop wasting my time in here just share equivalents of this:



Preferably possible at the same time as this (because that's what I meant with volumetric shadows, but of course this is the kind of ultra-niche stuff ND games are filled with that you and the others laughing would never notice):







And this:



And this:



And while we're at it this kind of reflections:





Including planar/RT-like mirrors (last I checked not working on PC) in a fully deferred pipeline.

And even water interaction (also downgraded on PC) because why not:



Preferably also on games that run at rock solid 60fps with no stutter at native 1440p on PS5, with equal character models, PCSS shadows, SSS, artifact free AO, equal animations/motion blending, physics etc. all at the same time while allowing for chaotic encounters against at least 12 enemies simultaneusly all with great AI and many particles on screen at any given time since this all has computational cost counting towards the final image it's possible to deliver.

Maybe S Schmendrick , S SABRE220 , Msamy , T teokrazia and all the other jesters you're being supported by could help you.

Or just continue posting utter garbage like artists responsible for Outlaws and other similar trash being not only on par but better than Naughty Dog, and stuff of this nature you could only read in a place like this.


Huh?
If you want to compare developers output and talent, and you want when you say ND aren't worthy anymore because in 4 years they only made a Remake, a Remaster and a cancelled project, you necessarily need to do so in an equal comparison.. but I guess dropping the brain is a requirement for posting in this Thread?

Either that or being fucking bipolar like the guy you're all supporting:




Posts from this year 2024, but yeah "it's not 2020 anymore" and apparently now even Outlaws devs are above Naughty Dog.. go figure.

you keep posting those gifs and screenshots like they are making your point, but trust me, they look awful and only prove my point that ND is a gen behind everyone else lol

The destruction gifs are cool, but again, its limited to a few things. If you want to see actual destruction, play control. You cant just play some pots and pans, you have to apply physics to desks, couches, and chairs and other objects in the game level. Like Ellie slamming into that car in the TLOU E3 demo and enemies slamming into bookshelves. Otherwise no one will see it which is exactly what happened here.

And yes, ND WAS the industry leader in cinematic graphics rendering. They are NOT anymore. That's the whole point.

I am praising them based on their history, and literally saying they will come back with a bang, but you cant handle a little criticism based on their output or lack thereof this gen. It's ridiculous that you chose TLOU1 to defend their output this gen.

Which translates into let's mock developers by saying they're not worthy because of how their PS5 games compare with others rocking RT settings made for 4090's, instead of how those very games run the same machine..

This is nonsense. I have a 3080 and i have repeatedly said how i was unable to turn on RT/PT settings in several games like Wukong, Alan wake 2, Star Wars outlaws, harry potter, RE4, Forza 8 and several others. Even in Avatar i had to settle for medium RT reflections and shadows which were on par with the PS5's 30 fps version. These games have all been ported to PC anyway so its fair game to compare them regardless of the GPU.

P.S It's not my job to educate you. Go and watch DF's video and you will find that the PC version features an ultra preset with better settings. Also, you played it on 1440p 60 fps with terrible muddy textures while i played with DLSS.

 

[SlimySnake]

No one here talk about ND talent, they are my best developer's alongside rockstar what

Be careful when you praise ND, he will just quote you as a gotcha to dismiss all your criticism lmao.

It's funny how some people operate. This also started when you got into it with a known apologist for simply saying ND has been MIA this gen. it's been 4 fucking years and all we got was a last gen remake. But nope, cant criticize anything.

Here is the principal ND artist saying that they kept TLOU1's visual fidelity low to keep it in line with TLOU2. Which is so stupid because they clearly didnt keep TLOU2's fidelity low to match the PS3 version of TLOU1 did they? Nah, they were like we have all this extra GPU power, we are going to push it. Fuck TLOU1.



defending this is so stupid.

 

[Vick]

you keep posting those gifs and screenshots like they are making your point, but trust me, they look awful

They obviously are, but it's apparently too hard for you to understand what dynamic GI, water volumetric shadows, PCSS, capsule occlusion, artifact free reflections plaguing every game without RT since PS4 and better than some lackluster low res RT, and the countless other things that are present at the same time represent from a technical point of view.
Nor what is means to deliver stuff at equal performance and resolution targets.

Thankfully there's people able to appreaciate this stuff that goes right over your head they put so much efforts into implementing.

and only prove my point that ND is a gen behind everyone else lol

This is response to a comment showcasing graphical/technical aspects not seen in other games.. while showcasing material from the supposed games "a generation ahead ND" looking in their maxed out PC version at times worse than PS3 games..

Similar setting and foliage rendering distance in your "generation behind PS4 game":

As if things weren't crystal clear already this comments unequivocally qualifies your complete ineptitude for these things you're clumsily discussing 24/24.

And yes, ND WAS the industry leader in cinematic graphics rendering. They are NOT anymore. That's the whole point.

I am praising them based on their history, and literally saying they will come back with a bang, but you cant handle a little criticism based on their output or lack thereof this gen. It's ridiculous that you chose TLOU1 to defend their output this gen.

I can handle penty of criticism just fine, I'm always the first one doing so:

I liked this post but only based on hopes and dreams.

I wish I could share your optimism about the bolded, and when you wish you had SlimySnake optimism you know something's fucking wrong.

In Part I they finally added PCSS-like shadows, and better shadows were the only noticeable visual element in need for a serious upgrade.
They also used a really, really good DoF in Part I.. I think they simply took advantage of PS5 extra power to fix their weaknesses and are now satisfied about how their games can look and run, also at 60fps.
I mean Druckmann literally just said about Part I "At times I'm thinking -I can't believe what I'm playing-".. just shut the fuck up Neil, have you missed UE5 on PS5?

And then there's the major thing: Naughty Dog engine has been just ported to PC after more than a decade. And we know it must have been a nightmare (partially confirmed by the consistent delay of the Legacy of Thieves collection), I can easily see them keep using it for the rest of the Gen. Especially considering the need for PC ports this time which is something they'll 100% keep in mind when designing new games.

A new Engine made specifically for the PS5 using "fancy tech like Lumens, nanite and ray tracing", later to be ported all over again on PC? I just don't see it at all.
And that's the same for every single Sony First Party with engines just landed on PC.
That's the main reason I haven't been over the moon about all this PC support, not because of the retarded "You just don't want others to enjoy the toys you enjoy" which if anything has been a blessing to read less salty trolling and constant downplaying of masterpieces by sad individuals, but because Sony focus on PC instead of a single, custom machine with single specs would have obviously led to this scenario.

I don't know, I hope I'm wrong of course. But not a single PS5 "exclusive" managed to impress me as much as launch or close to launch PS4 exclusives. Those were the best available at the time and then some, and that's not the case this time because we know more can be achieved on Cerny's machine.

What changed between this post, victim of UE5 promises, and this discussion now are the plethora of games running an abysmal IQ, low framerate, sub par RT and just an awful lot of stuff not even matching the best of last gen stuff, most of the time because they excessively rely on new tech while neglecting any form of optimization.





Which is the way you like your games.

What I can't handle is stupidity and complete ignorance in the process of making arrogant and outlandish claims. Not only towards developers but also someone like John who, unlike you, has proven time and time again to possess knowledge and basic critical thinking along with a dose of actual taste and eye for artistry.

This is nonsense. I have a 3080 and i have repeatedly said how i was unable to turn on RT/PT settings in several games like Wukong, Alan wake 2, Star Wars outlaws, harry potter, RE4, Forza 8 and several others. Even in Avatar i had to settle for medium RT reflections and shadows which were on par with the PS5's 30 fps version. These games have all been ported to PC anyway so its fair game to compare them regardless of the GPU.

Well fine, you can handle 30fps and made abundantly clear what your position is, and I'm thankful you're not the one calling the shots on what games should deliver.

Some on the other hand are still victims of the already mentioned concept of "whole package", meaning that while they appreaciate visuals games like Dead Space Remake, Callisto Protocol, Resident Evil Remakes RT, Alan Wake 2 can provide, they also found themselves acknowledging all the stuff present in ND games (that you already stated multiple times you don't even fucking notice) that is missing in these newer games even in presence of RT is some cases.

P.S It's not my job to educate you. Go and watch DF's video and you will find that the PC version features an ultra preset with better settings. Also, played it on 1440p 60 fps with terrible muddy textures while i played with DLSS.

The fucking audacity after the all efforts I've put into trying to school your ass..

I don't need to watch the video, I'm perfectly aware of any difference between the versions to call out your utter bullshit claim "settings way above PS5", apparently it's you who need to rewatch it since it's a nonstop finding of stuff missing/broken in the port:



And there's a literal infinite amount of stuff they missed in there. Some fixed, most not. But ignorance is bliss, enjoy (or keep trashing) the compromised version filled with downgrades, don't give a damn.

And stop with this victim trash "Oh you can't handle criticism" in attempts to reframe this pathetic discussion we had while completing ignoring time and time again whole portions of my messagges, since the entire ordeal was only born because of this comment you made:

Instead it's a gushing 50 minute blowjob by a guy who is supposed to be objective. He should've asked why the game looks virtually identical to TLOU2, a PS4 game. He should've docked points for not including any ray tracing features. He should've compared it to other next gen games and asked why it doesn't even come close. He should've compared it to other remakes like Demon Souls. Hell, he should've asked why tlou1 looks worse in spots than tlou2. something he at least was a bit more objective about in the HZD remaster which also looks worse than HFW in several areas.

I understand Callisto and even Plague's Tale requiem weren't out by then, but ratchet, horizon fw, demon souls, re8, cyberpunk were. Compare it to those games. everyone shits on Alex for his PC bias, but my god, John is way too lenient on these sony first party studios. He needs to understand that its his job to critique graphics and literally compare these games to their contemporaries.

I think the fact that its been 4 years and insomniac games are the only first party sony games to feature ray tracing is literally because of tech outlets like DF and NX gamer fanboying all over these games and refusing to take sony to task over missing key next gen features this console was sold on.

 

[SlimySnake]

The fucking audacity after the all efforts I've put into trying to school your ass..

I don't need to watch the video, I'm perfectly aware of any difference between the versions to call out your utter bullshit claim "settings way above PS5", apparently it's you who need to rewatch it since it's a nonstop finding of stuff missing/broken in the port:



And there's a literal infinite amount of stuff they missed in there. Some fixed, most not. But ignorance is bliss, enjoy (or keep trashing) the compromised version filled with downgrades, don't give a damn.

And stop with this victim trash "Oh you can't handle criticism" in attempts to reframe this pathetic discussion we had while completing ignoring time and time again whole portions of my messagges, since the entire ordeal was only born because of this comment you made:

I have ignored all the insults and retarded comparisons because i didnt want to call them retarded, and because i did not want to jump down in the gutter with you.

You've exposed yourself as a fanboy and ruined your cred over something as low effort as TLOU1. Have fun. just remember that no one on this board will take you seriously going forward.

 

[March Climber]

But Vick and SlimySnake I was told just a page or two ago that TLOU Part 1 counts as an A-team Naughty Dog release, as they apparently weren’t working on anything else for years and this game got all of the attention and manpower.

 

[Edder1]

People defending TLOU Part 1 that is essentially a PS4 game only available for PS5 is downright stupid. The game had its tech purposefully held back to save costs. It probably cost Sony very little because they were juts flipping assets from Part 2. This is very much in line with Sony strategy this gen, just flip and reuse assets and make moderate upgrades to maximise costs. Anyone defending this in a thread about next gen visuals and next gen tech is a fanboy or a troll, or both.

 

[Vick]

I have ignored all the insults and retarded comparisons because i didnt want to call them retarded, and because i did not want to jump down in the gutter with you.

Sure thing..

You've exposed yourself as a fanboy and ruined your cred over something as low effort as TLOU1. Have fun. just remember that no one on this board will take you seriously going forward.

lol

A bizarre outcome worthy of the way you handled yourself in this whole discussion, but expected from someone who understood absolutely nothing of what I've tried to explain..

I too had to realize, once again, just how little meat there is behind your peculiar obsession with graphics (while ignoring everything that goes into producing these things) and how far your bipolar disorder goes.

But Vick and SlimySnake I was told just a page or two ago that TLOU Part 1 counts as an A-team Naughty Dog release, as they apparently weren’t working on anything else for years and this game got all of the attention and manpower.

Yep.
Jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.

But some had already made up their minds apparently.. at least before changing it once again tomorrow.

 

[Msamy]

I have ignored all the insults and retarded comparisons because i didnt want to call them retarded, and because i did not want to jump down in the gutter with you.

You've exposed yourself as a fanboy and ruined your cred over something as low effort as TLOU1. Have fun. just remember that no one on this board will take you seriously going forward.

Don't bother yourself with those 60fps last gen whor..., i still don't know what they doing in this theard.lol,

 

[SlimySnake]

But Vick and SlimySnake I was told just a page or two ago that TLOU Part 1 counts as an A-team Naughty Dog release, as they apparently weren’t working on anything else for years and this game got all of the attention and manpower.

We know the whole story behind this project thanks to jason's reporting and ND's own tweets and announcements.

• The project started its life at VSG studios in 2018 but after ND kept meddling after shipping TLOU2 in May 2020, they resigned leaving ND with the project full time.
• The Lost Legacy director who left to make Avengers returned to lead the project sometime in late 2020.
• The principal artist at ND stated how this was the first project at ND with no crunch. So he was clearly involved.

It honestly doesn't matter if this was the A team or B team or VSG team with A tier directors and lead artists from ND. What matters are the results. The results are simple. It looks like TLOU2 only worse. It is using TLOU2 tech. Just not as effectively. Just like HZD remaster. Utilizing NONE of the advanced PS5 features. Not the GPU, not the SSD, CPU, RT, primitive shaders or IO. Nothing. It's a straight copy paste of TLOU2 assets.

We are actually being fair when we dismiss this game instead of using this as a blueprint of ND games to come. No one here in their right mind believes that their next game will feature TLOU2 quality graphics. No one sane at least. So when we say ND has done nothing this gen, we are cutting them some slack. Because if we count this as a full blown ND title, they would get eviscerated in this thread as hacks. Lazy, unambitious, and talentless hacks. So yeah, let's just pretend ND has been MIA for the last 4 years.

 

[Vick]

People defending TLOU Part 1 that is essentially a PS4 game only available for PS5 is downright stupid. The game had its tech purposefully held back to save costs. It probably cost Sony very little because they were juts flipping assets from Part 2. This is very much in line with Sony strategy this gen, just flip and reuse assets and make moderate upgrades to maximise costs. Anyone defending this in a thread about next gen visuals and next gen tech is a fanboy or a troll, or both.

Thankfully there's a whole damn hour video detailing how little "assets flip" there is in the game and how much effort went into manually crafting every inch of it.



As already, pointlessly, explained game resembling their previous last gen game is a result of:

- A maxed out 17 year old Engine their artists know inside out (that was just ported as it to PC with disastrous results) they thought wasn't worth rewriting for this quick project, surely not only to allow PS5-level RT implementations for the sake of, on the machine they were targeting native 1440p and flawless 60fps.

- Not equal development time (1 year vs 6) and man-hour, vital while relying on manually crafted/baked/carefully aligned cubemaps.

- The studio's philosophy and obstinacy in wanting to provide all the same time a mountain of stuff costing precious rendering ms: good and responsive animations, good IQ, 100% hand-painted textures (all of them), original assets, artifact free/always perfect looking AO, capsule AO for dynamic soft shadows and baked light occlusion, volumetric lighting, volumetric shadows on water, motion blending, engaging AI, physics, sub surface scattering across the board for characters, water and vegetation, cloth physics, interactive foliage, impeccable PRB, carefully designed streaming to avoid stutter and pop-in, countless LOD variations, and the infinite little details they love.

But apparently this simple, basic ass concept children in a pre-school would be able to grasp it too much for participants of this Thread.
And simply using logic results in being a fanboy, a troll, or someone who lost his credibility.. all while being laughed at by some room temperature IQ individuals.

Maybe all they should really do for their next game is scrap all of those self-imposed standards, use photoreal Quixel assets only, rely on the little RT automation that's possible on PS5 and have the game running at sub 1080p resolution and 30fps. Would surely make someone bust their nuts.

Gonna close with something I've just read in another Thread from Kevboard:

Silent Hill 2 for example doesn't really have a shader stutter issue, yet it constantly stutters and has awful performance compared to the graphical quality on display.
UE5 is a crutch that these developers use to fast track development by avoiding proper optimisation. Nanite, Lumen, TSR... crutches. one worse than the next.

In Silent Hill 2, disabling Nanite in the engine settings improves your framerate instantly without a single visual difference to the game. but Nanite is forced on by the devs because they couldn't be arsed to make optimised LODs. so they just slapped Nanite into the game as a crutch so that they don't have to think about LODs and polygon budgets.

bake your completely static lighting? nah! just slap Lumen on it!

make good looking and well performing LODs? NAH! just slap Nanite on it!

optimise for good image quality on console? NAAAAAHHH! just slap TSR on it!

that is the Unreal Engine future right there.

DX12 is the least of the issues here I feel. and honestly, shader comp stutters aren't even the worst issue anymore here either. I can't even turn around in SH2 without the game stuttering and the animations hitching. neither is a DX12 issue.

 

[Senua]

Vick Shame you posted a cherry picked and shite shot of Alan Wake 2, yet only post TLoU at its best. You can do better

 

[Vick]

Vick Shame you posted a cherry picked and shite shot of Alan Wake 2, yet only post TLoU at its best. You can do better

It's not for the shot itself, it was used to showcase 90's foliage and shadow rendering distance in a game "a whole generation above" the other, and those "not even close" superior artists ability to create believable distant mountains and trees..

These are aspects that never change in Part I, so irrelevant of screenshots.
And that is not TLOU at "its best" by the way Senua, those are the basic checkpoints screenshots I took and posted for the before/after patch 2.00 TAA comparison in another Thread.
They simply depict a similar environment.

 

[SlimySnake]

Vick Shame you posted a cherry picked and shite shot of Alan Wake 2, yet only post TLoU at its best. You can do better

To be fair, those are some ugly ass screenshots of TLOU.

 

[Edder1]

Thankfully there's a whole damn hour video detailing how little "assets flip" there is in the game and how much effort went into manually crafting every inch of it.



As already, pointlessly, explained game resembling their previous last gen game is a result of:

- A maxed out 17 year old Engine their artists know inside out (that was just ported as it to PC with disastrous results) they thought wasn't worth rewriting for this quick project, surely not only to allow PS5-level RT implementations for the sake of, on the machine they were targeting native 1440p and flawless 60fps.

- Not equal development time (1 year vs 6) and man-hour, vital while relying on manually crafted/baked/carefully aligned cubemaps.

- The studio's philosophy and obstinacy in wanting to provide all the same time a mountain of stuff costing precious rendering ms: good and responsive animations, good IQ, 100% hand-painted textures (all of them), original assets, artifact free/always perfect looking AO, capsule AO for dynamic soft shadows and baked light occlusion, volumetric lighting, volumetric shadows on water, motion blending, engaging AI, physics, sub surface scattering across the board for characters, water and vegetation, cloth physics, interactive foliage, impeccable PRB, carefully designed streaming to avoid stutter and pop-in, countless LOD variations, and the infinite little details they love.

But apparently this simple, basic ass concept children in a pre-school would be able to grasp it too much for participants of this Thread.
And simply using logic results in being a fanboy, a troll, or someone who lost his credibility.. all while being laughed at by some room temperature IQ individuals.

Maybe all they should really do for their next game is scrap all of those self-imposed standards, use photoreal Quixel assets only, rely on the little RT automation that's possible on PS5 and have the game running at sub 1080p resolution and 30fps. Would surely make someone bust their nuts.

Gonna close with something I've just read in another Thread from Kevboard:

Dude stop. DF have been posting lot of nonsense opinions as of late, the latest one being John showing a bunch of footage of Horizon remaster and original side by side and saying a lot of the time you won't even notice the difference unless you know what to look for, all the while claiming the game is so technically advanced that it should be called a remake, lol. This is absolute joke, type of nonsense you expect fanboys to say. Don't get me started on John including Switch games in graphics of the year awards, like last year when 2D Mario game was among the top best looking games of the year apparently, lol. Again, this is absolute nonsense, they're dismissing many technically impressive games because they wanna include their favourite yet technically inferior games on the list. I watch DF videos like many others, but taking their opinion as some sort of fact nowadays has no validity whatsoever.

Btw, I watched that TLOU Part 1 video way back, in it John actually says that technically it's on part with Part 2, so really you're just hyping up a PS4 game (technology wise) in a thread about next generation four years after new consoles launched. Let that sink in for a moment.

 

[SlimySnake]

We need to celebrate the best PS3 looking game a bit more in this thread.

The PS3 quality foliage is so impressive.

 

[Represent.]

Silent hill 2 Remake it uses nanite but not for everything, there is a mod on nexus that can disable nanite, to gain some fps.

Framerate warriors out here literally modding games to make them look uglier in the name of framerate, my goodness

 

[Luipadre]

We need to celebrate the best PS3 looking game a bit more in this thread.

The PS3 quality foliage is so impressive.

I recently revisited the game on PS5 and tried the performance mode after i finished it last year in quality. TBH even in perf mode it looks impressive, i think they improved it since release. Cant wait to replay it on the pro in the new performance mode

 

[Senua]

We need to celebrate the best PS3 looking game a bit more in this thread.

The PS3 quality foliage is so impressive.

Man I remember playing through and just gawking at the visuals, TLoUP1 definitely did not have that affect lol

 

[Msamy]

Framerate warriors out here literally modding games to make them look uglier in the name of framerate, my goodness

They keep coming in this theard like as. Hol.. Lol.

 

[Vick]

The PS3 quality foliage is so impressive.

Quite amusing considering foliage doesn't have subsurface scattering, a basic foliage feature successfully represented in ND PS3 games from 2007 and 2011 and fully technically realized on their PS4 games starting from 2016 and since then implemented in many last gen games, including free roams.

 

[Imtjnotu]

love slimey thinking his opinion is above all.....this thread always delivers

 

[Vick]

love slimey thinking his opinion is above all.....this thread always delivers

It's easy to indulge in delusions while sustained by others.

And when it comes to shit on Sony™ games you can always count on countless supporters.. always alone when he praises those games, or the many times he claimed they featured stuff yet to be matched.

 

[SlimySnake]

love slimey thinking his opinion is above all.....this thread always delivers

Tlou part 1 looking last gen is not an opinion. Its a fact. Confirmed by the lead principal artist himself who it was made to look like tlou2 on purpose.

 

[arkhamguy123]

love slimey thinking his opinion is above all.....this thread always delivers

How does Vick not think his “opinion is above all”? They both presented facts and evidence to substantiate their claims

It was one of the better Neogaf debates. Like two chess grandmasters dueling it out on the board

 

[Imtjnotu]

How does Vick not think his “opinion is above all”? They both presented facts and evidence to substantiate their claims

It was one of the better Neogaf debates. Like two chess grandmasters dueling it out on the board

LOL if you've been here over the years I'm this thread, you'd understand what I'm talking about

 

[arkhamguy123]

LOL if you've been here over the years I'm this thread, you'd understand what I'm talking about

I have been… SlimySnake graphical takes are pretty good and technical

 

[Msamy]

Here what naughty dog did with a remaster in last gen combared to their last ps3 project

And here what they did with a remake this gen combared to their last ps4 project

 

[SlimySnake]

Dragon Age looks like garbage. I had such high hopes for this game.




Big talent drain from Bioware. Anthem was absolutely gorgeous even after the downgrade.

Frostbite was one of the best engines last gen with Battlefront, NFS 2015, BF1, and Anthem all up there with the best looking games in their genre. Just another case of an engine that simply cant compete with ue5 even after 4 years.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Dragon Age looks like garbage. I had such high hopes for this game.




Big talent drain from Bioware. Anthem was absolutely gorgeous even after the downgrade.

Frostbite was one of the best engines last gen with Battlefront, NFS 2015, BF1, and Anthem all up there with the best looking games in their genre. Just another case of an engine that simply cant compete with ue5 even after 4 years.

I think graphically this game looks good but the art style is what sucks..yeah it doesn't compete with the best of UE5 but I don't just compare games against UE5. The lighting and environments, water, effects are impressive imo. Yes the characters and art direction is really whacky

 

[Magik85]

Thats what happens when you hire based on inclusivity and representation instead of skill and experience ;-)

 

[RaduN]

the cutscene direction......That era of ND being kings is long gone.

Did you actually insinuate that ND were ever "kings" at cutscenes cinematography? LoL that was never ever the case, not in a world where Kojima Productions and Capcom exist.

Put in your Sons of Liberty disc (a 23 years old game) if you want to see actual competent realtime cutscene direction with creative cinematography and impecable scene composition.


Yeah, and all the more recent games you mentioned are great in this regard as well, in comparison to ND's talents.

 

[Toots]

I have been… SlimySnake graphical takes are pretty good and technical

HIs red carpet takes on the other hand...

 

[SlimySnake]

HIs red carpet takes on the other hand...

lol if neil was at the studio instead of waiting to get his picture taken at Hollywood award shows, we might have gotten a trailer or two from nd.

 

[Radical_3d]

Tlou part 1 looking last gen is not an opinion. Its a fact. Confirmed by the lead principal artist himself who it was made to look like tlou2 on purpose.

Yeah but it’s a quick money grab remake, not a new game. TLoU 2 improved over the first one for being a new game. TLoU remaster on PS4 was even more lazy.

 

[xxDeadlockxx]

For a casual user who knows almost nothing about the technical aspects, compared to more than a few people who participate in this thread and to whom I am very grateful because I learn from them, for me Alan Wake 2 is clearly in another league compared to TLOU.

For me the comparison doesn't even make sense.

 

[SlimySnake]

For a casual user who knows almost nothing about the technical aspects, compared to more than a few people who participate in this thread and to whom I am very grateful because I learn from them, for me Alan Wake 2 is clearly in another league compared to TLOU.

For me the comparison doesn't even make sense.

You must not believe in SuBSURfaCE SCaTTerRING!

 

[Schmendrick]

It's easy to indulge in delusions while sustained by others.

And when it comes to shit on Sony™ games you can always count on countless supporters.. always alone when he praises those games, or the many times he claimed they featured stuff yet to be matched.

uh huh, it`s totally not just you making impossible claims, it`s mass delusion on the side of whoever doesn`t agree with you......

Dude, let it go. Your argumentation is literally on "the sky is green, because I say so" level....

 

[arkhamguy123]

HIs red carpet takes on the other hand...

Nah he’s right there too. Nobody there cared about Neil

 

[SlimySnake]

Did you actually insinuate that ND were ever "kings" at cutscenes cinematography? LoL that was never ever the case, not in a world where Kojima Productions and Capcom exist.

Put in your Sons of Liberty disc (a 23 years old game) if you want to see actual competent realtime cutscene direction with creative cinematography and impecable scene composition.


Yeah, and all the more recent games you mentioned are great in this regard as well, in comparison to ND's talents.

Kojima was the king up until ND took over in the mid to late 2010s. He's still up there but his cutscenes drag and have a more anime feel than hollywood. Still amazing and pure genius but i like ND's more grounded direction better. That said, If you'd ask me to pick my favorite cutscene, id probably choose a kojima one. I am still the biggest kojima fan i know.

Things nowadays are a lot more even. Hellblade 2, Callisto, FF16, some black myth and silent hill 2 scenes are all up there with the best of ND. Only with better tech.

 

[Vick]

uh huh, it`s totally not just you making impossible claims, it`s mass delusion on the side of whoever doesn`t agree with you......

Dude, let it go. Your argumentation is literally on "the sky is green, because I say so" level....

Maybe "room temperature IQ" was a bit optimistic on my side.

Feel free to share a single element within a single one of my posts that isn't factual, verifiable information.

 

[Schmendrick]

Maybe "room temperature IQ" was a bit optimistic on my side.

You actually managed to get even more insufferable and immature than before, congrats.

Feel free to share a single element within a single one of my posts that isn't factual, verifiable information.

I don`t feel the need to repeat the very same discussion slimy already had with you. It´s like playing chess with a pigeon, at the end it doesn´t matter how it goes, you`ll just shit on the board....as you`ve already demonstrated.