• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Bro, if you saw it in IMAX like I did, Im sure you'd think it was great lol. I was SHOCKED by how awesome the final 30 minutes were in IMAX, the sound in there really elevated it. So goddamn intense, with absolutely insane audio design, at a low budget. Makes me really hype for 28 Years Later. But yes, Hollywood is oozing with actual talent in comparison to game development. Just recently alone we've had, Godzilla Minus One and Civil War get made with low budgets and deliver in spades on the action front. In other genres we've had Smile 2 come out and over perform in the box office, Terrifier 3 was a 2 million dollar budget, only 500k on marketing, and has made 25 million so far. Games are just lacking talent - You give a studio a low budget and the game LOOKS/FEELS low budget - not in hollywood.

Im hoping/assuming they are just not wasting any more resources on remasters/patches.. full steam ahead on new projects.
To be fair, hollywood is also struggling with high budgets and green screen looking films. godzilla minus one is a japanese production and A24 which is an indie studio, made Civil war. the bloat in hollywood is just as bad. joker cost $200 million.

Look at how weak the upgrades for Alan Wake 2 are ...doesn't bode well for other demanding games on Pro ...is there a counter argument to that like why AW2 is just an outlier? Is it CPU bound or is it known to be terrible on AMD??

Im praying that it's not a true indicator of the Pros power because ...limited rt reflections at 30 fps and more alarming native 860p in 60 fps ...i was totally dejected the other day after that news but hearing Spiderman is getting more RT features perked me back up a bit
Wait, what? no. Alan Wake 2 has great improvements. it's not native 860p. its 860p reconstructed to 4k using PSSR AND its using PS5's quality mode settings. Previously it was around 720p using low settings and using FSR to upscale to just 1440p. the new reconstruction will look way better in terms of image quality AND it will be using higher graphics presets. its a massive boost.

Quality mode using ray tracing and a way better reconstruction method will also look great.
 

Msamy

Member
I'm not asking you to link to Jasons article, I'm asking you to back up your claim that these single player studios were forced into making live service games. I'm sure you can easily supply me with the list of studios and evidence that they were forced. You, Msamy Msamy made a claim and I am asking you Msamy Msamy to back it up. I am waiting.

As for why ND stopped dev on TLOU Online, they outright stated why in their own post when they announced it. Either they would have to devote all their resources to TLOU Online and its post-launch support, or continue to make single player games, one or the other and they chose the latter.
I am not journalist i provide you with article from journalist which you trust and he said he know developers didn't like that switch from single player to gaas which mean forced to work on in unwanted project also I provide you with clear statement from Jason that horizon online affect horizon 3 development which mean the same happened with ND in it's upcoming project considering both studious have around 400 developers which was the original point in our conversation.
 
Last edited:

vivftp

Member
Yes but having your game be announced officially on the official SGF stage for the world to see is much different than a random ‘oops we revealed it’ in 2019. Druckmann would not have been on that stage if he weren’t confident about how far along the project was.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too in this situation. Again, I’ll accept ‘Druckmann lied but I am still right’ that’s all you have to say lol. Don’t let pride over Druckmann ruin your many good points above.

He was on stage for a general talk about TLOU Part 1, the HBO series and TLOU Online. That they wanted to drop a small teaser to let folks know that they'd talk more about TLOU Online in 2023 does not conflict with his other comments. You're trying to look at this is an oddly black and white scenario through a narrow lens and I'm unsure why.
 

vivftp

Member
I am not journalist i provide you with article and from journalist which you trust and he said he know developers didn't like that switch from single player to gaas which mean forced to work on in unwanted project also I provide you with clear statement from Jason that horizon online affect horizon 3 development which mean the same happened with ND in it's upcoming project considering both studious have around 400 developers which was the original point in our conversation.

You haven't provided me with anything. You made a claim, I asked you to back it up. You Msamy Msamy do not need to be a journalist to write down the name of the studios you're talking about and to link me to the evidence that these studios were forced into creating live service games. Not Jason generally making a broad statement, I want you Msamy Msamy to do the legwork and back up your claim.

Thank you.
 

Msamy

Member
You haven't provided me with anything. You made a claim, I asked you to back it up. You Msamy Msamy do not need to be a journalist to write down the name of the studios you're talking about and to link me to the evidence that these studios were forced into creating live service games. Not Jason generally making a broad statement, I want you Msamy Msamy to do the legwork and back up your claim.

Thank you.
I will said the same I am not journalist, but jason who is a journalist made article about sony live service strategy and said that he knows the developers who don't like it, also he said that horizon online project affect horizon 3 and I said that was enough for me to confirm that ND upcoming game affected by the gaas project which only canceled last year which prove I am the right one in the original topic. Considering you trust Jason reports and his sources inside sony studios
Thank you.
 
Last edited:

March Climber

Gold Member
He was on stage for a general talk about TLOU Part 1, the HBO series and TLOU Online. That they wanted to drop a small teaser to let folks know that they'd talk more about TLOU Online in 2023 does not conflict with his other comments. You're trying to look at this is an oddly black and white scenario through a narrow lens and I'm unsure why.
Because it does have a small confliction based on his words, but you’re refusing to acknowledge it and I’m unsure as to why, because it literally benefits your own argument to actually point it out.
 

vivftp

Member
I will said the same I am not journalist, but jason who is a journalist made article about sony live service strategy and said that he knows the developers who don't like it, also he said that horizon online project affect horizon 3 and I said that was enough for me to confirm that ND upcoming game affected by the gaas project which only canceled last year which prove I am the right one in the original topic. Considering you trust Jason reports and his sources inside sony studios
Thank you.

Then let me do it for you if you're not willing to take the time to back up your own claims. Here're all the live service games:

Naughty Dog - TLOU Online - cancelled because the studio has to choose between TLOU Online or continuing to make single player games
London Studios Fantasy Game - the studio was shut down, so of course their game got cancelled. Whether that speaks to the quality of the game or the state of the studio, or if SIE just needed to axe a studio to improve their margins, we don't know
Firesprite - Twisted Metal - was never greenlit
Insomniac - Spider-Man Online - was never greenlit
Deviation games - the game was apparently pulled from them and might be continuing development internally at a new secret team under Jason Blundell
New studio - Project Gummy Bear - split off from Bungie into a new studio
Guerrilla - Horizon Online - continuing development
NCSoft - Horizon MMORPG - continuing development
Haven - Fairgame$ - continuing development
Bungie - Marathon - continuing development
Neon Koi's game - continuing development
Firewalk - Concord - released and then pulled. TBA what happens next
Arrowhead - Helldivers 2 - released to great success
San Diego - MLB - annual franchise with great success
Bungie - Destiny 2 - continued franchise, TBA how it will move forward post-Final Shape


Ignoring for the moment that Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have both been single player and multiplayer studios for a very long time, let's only look at them as single player studios for now. Out of that list, the only ones you can make an argument for who would be existing single player studios would be Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Insomniac and London Studios. 4 projects out of 15. The other 9 come from newly formed studios or studios who were already making live service games. So let's look at the 4 studios:

Naughty Dog - were planning to make TLOU Part 2 with a MP mode until their ambitions for the MP mode grew too large and they opted to spin it off into its own separate title

Guerrilla - the Horizon online game has been in development under Simon Larouche since 2018, before the live service initiative began

Insomniac - looked into a Spider-Man live service game and it was never greenlit. We do not have a great deal of info on this.

London Studios - we have a lovely article where the studio laid out the process where they decided to make a live service fantasy game:



So I ask you again Msamy Msamy where were any of these studios forced to make a live service game? All the live service initiative did was offer more time, money and resources to studios who wanted to make those types of games. The studios still chose their paths and SIE provided them the resources they would need to see them through. So Msamy Msamy when you said the words, "I hate sony forced single player developers to do them then cancelled most of them" you were talking out of your ass. No one was forced, the studios chose their own paths. If Jason spoke with Bill in Accounting and he wasn't too keen on live service then good for Bill, that does not mean that Sony forced the studios to do anything. That's never been how SIE operates.

Out of those 4 games, Naughty Dog made the decision to stop development on their game. Insomniacs proposal was never greenlit in the first place. Guerrilla is still working on their game. London Studios got shut down, and their game went with them.

So either you've got a hatred for live service games that you're nursing, or you've got a fundamental lack of understanding of the facts of the situation. Either way, you're wrong.
 

Senua

Member
Please shut the fuck up and post more screenshots
j9R59lG.jpeg
 

vivftp

Member
Because it does have a small confliction based on his words, but you’re refusing to acknowledge it and I’m unsure as to why, because it literally benefits your own argument to actually point it out.

A lie is a specific thing where a statement can be disproven. What we're talking about is not a lie. Interpret it however you want, I don't care.

Please shut the fuck up and post more screenshots

Indeed, my apologies for the derail. Just annoys the living fuck outta me when I see folks misrepresenting events to suit their agenda.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
While I think graphics have substantially improved since the Order, games like Batman AK, DriveClub, AC Unity, Ryse and the Order deserve to be studied for what they got right. The rain effects in DriveClub havent been topped. Same goes for batman AK. The fantastic CG quality of The order's visual design is still missing in 99.9% of the games. Only Callisto and Hellblade have gotten there in the last almost 10 years now. SH2 comes close, but Indiana Jones is coming out in 2 months and its a linear game that doesnt feature that CG look.

Racing games cant get the rain effects right. Open world games cant either. Why? Just go back and see what these guys did on a 1.8 tflops gpu. you have 8x more raw gpu power, figure out these things that other more talented devs did in 2014 and 2015.
 
While I think graphics have substantially improved since the Order, games like Batman AK, DriveClub, AC Unity, Ryse and the Order deserve to be studied for what they got right. The rain effects in DriveClub havent been topped. Same goes for batman AK. The fantastic CG quality of The order's visual design is still missing in 99.9% of the games. Only Callisto and Hellblade have gotten there in the last almost 10 years now. SH2 comes close, but Indiana Jones is coming out in 2 months and its a linear game that doesnt feature that CG look.

Racing games cant get the rain effects right. Open world games cant either. Why? Just go back and see what these guys did on a 1.8 tflops gpu. you have 8x more raw gpu power, figure out these things that other more talented devs did in 2014 and 2015.
This is where the brain drain in the tech side of the industry becomes really apparent.
 

winjer

Gold Member
While I think graphics have substantially improved since the Order, games like Batman AK, DriveClub, AC Unity, Ryse and the Order deserve to be studied for what they got right. The rain effects in DriveClub havent been topped. Same goes for batman AK. The fantastic CG quality of The order's visual design is still missing in 99.9% of the games. Only Callisto and Hellblade have gotten there in the last almost 10 years now. SH2 comes close, but Indiana Jones is coming out in 2 months and its a linear game that doesnt feature that CG look.

Racing games cant get the rain effects right. Open world games cant either. Why? Just go back and see what these guys did on a 1.8 tflops gpu. you have 8x more raw gpu power, figure out these things that other more talented devs did in 2014 and 2015.

Making good rain requires more talent than compute.
And it seems that a lot of talent has left many studios.
 

Msamy

Member
Then let me do it for you if you're not willing to take the time to back up your own claims. Here're all the live service games:

Naughty Dog - TLOU Online - cancelled because the studio has to choose between TLOU Online or continuing to make single player games
London Studios Fantasy Game - the studio was shut down, so of course their game got cancelled. Whether that speaks to the quality of the game or the state of the studio, or if SIE just needed to axe a studio to improve their margins, we don't know
Firesprite - Twisted Metal - was never greenlit
Insomniac - Spider-Man Online - was never greenlit
Deviation games - the game was apparently pulled from them and might be continuing development internally at a new secret team under Jason Blundell
New studio - Project Gummy Bear - split off from Bungie into a new studio
Guerrilla - Horizon Online - continuing development
NCSoft - Horizon MMORPG - continuing development
Haven - Fairgame$ - continuing development
Bungie - Marathon - continuing development
Neon Koi's game - continuing development
Firewalk - Concord - released and then pulled. TBA what happens next
Arrowhead - Helldivers 2 - released to great success
San Diego - MLB - annual franchise with great success
Bungie - Destiny 2 - continued franchise, TBA how it will move forward post-Final Shape


Ignoring for the moment that Naughty Dog and Guerrilla have both been single player and multiplayer studios for a very long time, let's only look at them as single player studios for now. Out of that list, the only ones you can make an argument for who would be existing single player studios would be Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Insomniac and London Studios. 4 projects out of 15. The other 9 come from newly formed studios or studios who were already making live service games. So let's look at the 4 studios:

Naughty Dog - were planning to make TLOU Part 2 with a MP mode until their ambitions for the MP mode grew too large and they opted to spin it off into its own separate title

Guerrilla - the Horizon online game has been in development under Simon Larouche since 2018, before the live service initiative began

Insomniac - looked into a Spider-Man live service game and it was never greenlit. We do not have a great deal of info on this.

London Studios - we have a lovely article where the studio laid out the process where they decided to make a live service fantasy game:



So I ask you again Msamy Msamy where were any of these studios forced to make a live service game? All the live service initiative did was offer more time, money and resources to studios who wanted to make those types of games. The studios still chose their paths and SIE provided them the resources they would need to see them through. So Msamy Msamy when you said the words, "I hate sony forced single player developers to do them then cancelled most of them" you were talking out of your ass. No one was forced, the studios chose their own paths. If Jason spoke with Bill in Accounting and he wasn't too keen on live service then good for Bill, that does not mean that Sony forced the studios to do anything. That's never been how SIE operates.

Out of those 4 games, Naughty Dog made the decision to stop development on their game. Insomniacs proposal was never greenlit in the first place. Guerrilla is still working on their game. London Studios got shut down, and their game went with them.

So either you've got a hatred for live service games that you're nursing, or you've got a fundamental lack of understanding of the facts of the situation. Either way, you're wrong.
Lol I don't need to response to you, you even don't know the difference between gaas live service titles and multiplayer games 😂😂 you care the one who speak from your ass you even drive the conversation from it's original topic which is effect of ND gaas title on its single player game, also thank you for providing sony cancelled gaas games and your bullshit of defending sony cancelled them by stating they never have greenlight or sony don't like them (lol sony like concord 😂😂) I advise you to stop defending bullshit sony live service strategy, and all people's here knows that and their are many articles from known journalists about the bad effect of this strategy in sony studios
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
ND was the king of graphics in the PS4 gen. Frankly, they dont belong in this thread. It's called graphics fidelity i expect this gen, not last gen.

Developers rise and fall all the time. Rocksteady made Batman AK, Crytek made Ryse, Ready At Dawn made The Order, Sucker Punch made Infamous Second Son. Look at where they are now.

ND being MIA for 4 fucking years when they used to release games every 2-3 years is a huge fucking story but we will always have apologists trying to play down fuck ups by major video game corporations.

I couldn't care less why they have been MIA. the fact of the matter is that they haven't done shit this gen. I stanned for them on the very first page of this thread in my very first post of this thread three years ago. Because I thought we would have a game from them by now. they haven't released shit. Worse, what they did release was last gen shit. So fuck them. this thread is about devs who have shown up. Not devs who were out there partying with hollywood stars while their studio meddled with Bend and VSG trying to take over their projects because they had nothing to do. Not devs who wasted 5 years on a gaas project just like Rocksteady did. That's how bad things are over at ND, they made the same mistakes as Rocksteady.

So fuck em. We will discuss them when they finally show up and give us their vision for next/current gen. Until then, i'd rather this thread focus on admiring the devs who are actually trying.
 

Msamy

Member
ND was the king of graphics in the PS4 gen. Frankly, they dont belong in this thread. It's called graphics fidelity i expect this gen, not last gen.

Developers rise and fall all the time. Rocksteady made Batman AK, Crytek made Ryse, Ready At Dawn made The Order, Sucker Punch made Infamous Second Son. Look at where they are now.

ND being MIA for 4 fucking years when they used to release games every 2-3 years is a huge fucking story but we will always have apologists trying to play down fuck ups by major video game corporations.

I couldn't care less why they have been MIA. the fact of the matter is that they haven't done shit this gen. I stanned for them on the very first page of this thread in my very first post of this thread three years ago. Because I thought we would have a game from them by now. they haven't released shit. Worse, what they did release was last gen shit. So fuck them. this thread is about devs who have shown up. Not devs who were out there partying with hollywood stars while their studio meddled with Bend and VSG trying to take over their projects because they had nothing to do. Not devs who wasted 5 years on a gaas project just like Rocksteady did. That's how bad things are over at ND, they made the same mistakes as Rocksteady.

So fuck em. We will discuss them when they finally show up and give us their vision for next/current gen. Until then, i'd rather this thread focus on admiring the devs who are actually trying.
You are 100% right but sony ninjas here will attact you with some bullshit ideas to defend sony and it's studios
 

vivftp

Member
Lol I don't need to response to you, you even don't know the difference between gaas live service titles and multiplayer games 😂😂 you care the one who speak from your ass you even drive the conversation from it's original topic which is effect of ND gaas title on its single player game, also thank you for providing sony cancelled gaas games and your bullshit of defending sony cancelled them by stating they never have greenlight or sony don't like them (lol sony like concord 😂😂) I advise you to stop defending bullshit sony live service strategy, and all people's here knows that and their are many articles from known journalists about the bad effect of this strategy in sony studios

I'm going to stop feeding the ignorant troll.

You have a good day!
 

mrqs

Member
While I think graphics have substantially improved since the Order, games like Batman AK, DriveClub, AC Unity, Ryse and the Order deserve to be studied for what they got right. The rain effects in DriveClub havent been topped. Same goes for batman AK. The fantastic CG quality of The order's visual design is still missing in 99.9% of the games. Only Callisto and Hellblade have gotten there in the last almost 10 years now. SH2 comes close, but Indiana Jones is coming out in 2 months and its a linear game that doesnt feature that CG look.

Racing games cant get the rain effects right. Open world games cant either. Why? Just go back and see what these guys did on a 1.8 tflops gpu. you have 8x more raw gpu power, figure out these things that other more talented devs did in 2014 and 2015.
Honestly, baked lighting works super well when done properly. When we started moving to real-time GI, I thought that we would have more interactivity as the lighting would be easier to handle, but it didn't change much since then.
 

Msamy

Member
Please shut the fuck up and post more screenshots
Here is my current top 6 game engines currently with no order until ND, SSM, and insomniac show their upcoming titles to judge them :-

- UE5
sPjRrZo.jpeg

-RAGE ENGINE
8W4LJGt.jpeg

-DECIMA ENGINE
Z33W4fF.jpeg

-STAR ENGINE
ZOkyZJe.jpeg

-SUCKER PUNCH ENGINE
C32D28f.jpeg

-SNOW DROP ENGINE
f7mBv81.jpeg

-I will put unity 6 in my list if it gets game with this quality
LEIbUTz.jpeg

-Remedy northlight is good but I think it's true potential not unleashed yet
 
Last edited:
Fine.
gw6BH2e.gif


Are we sure SH2 doesnt use nanite? At times, it uses these extremely highly detailed assets that scream nanite. This particular room even had a burst of wind blow in and scatter a bunch of these books and files on the ground. Amazing physics. I wish the entire game was like this.
It's a weird game. It doesn't seem to be using Nanite for every asset like other UE5 games, we can clearly tell what's a traditionally polycounted asset and then the "infinity geometry" ones.
 

powder

Neo Member
Fine.
gw6BH2e.gif


Are we sure SH2 doesnt use nanite? At times, it uses these extremely highly detailed assets that scream nanite. This particular room even had a burst of wind blow in and scatter a bunch of these books and files on the ground. Amazing physics. I wish the entire game was like this.

I think they’re definitely using nanite even if only selectively. Check out the triangles being used here:

V7CC5NX.jpeg
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
While I think graphics have substantially improved since the Order, games like Batman AK, DriveClub, AC Unity, Ryse and the Order deserve to be studied for what they got right. The rain effects in DriveClub havent been topped. Same goes for batman AK. The fantastic CG quality of The order's visual design is still missing in 99.9% of the games. Only Callisto and Hellblade have gotten there in the last almost 10 years now. SH2 comes close, but Indiana Jones is coming out in 2 months and its a linear game that doesnt feature that CG look.

Racing games cant get the rain effects right. Open world games cant either. Why? Just go back and see what these guys did on a 1.8 tflops gpu. you have 8x more raw gpu power, figure out these things that other more talented devs did in 2014 and 2015.
You think callisto look better than sh2 remake?

Yeah disagree unless the pc version of callisto is like another game compared to the console version i played.

I think epic gifted me the pc version but i can't bring myself to play another minute of that donkey turd of a game to check how much better it looks :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Gold Member
Here is my current top 6 game engines currently with no order until ND, SSM, and insomniac show their upcoming titles to judge them :-

- UE5
sPjRrZo.jpeg

-RAGE ENGINE
8W4LJGt.jpeg

-DECIMA ENGINE
Z33W4fF.jpeg

-STAR ENGINE
ZOkyZJe.jpeg

-SUCKER PUNCH ENGINE
C32D28f.jpeg

-SNOW DROP ENGINE
f7mBv81.jpeg

-I will put unity 6 in my list if it gets game with this quality
LEIbUTz.jpeg

-Remedy northlight is good but I think it's true potential not unleashed yet
Was sucker punch a pity choice?

You shouldl put fable engine over sushi 2 engine, one look almost fully nextgen, the other look like a crossgen at best.
 
Last edited:

Msamy

Member
Was sucker punch a pity choice?

You shouldl put fable engine over sushi 2 engine, one look almost fully nextgen, the other look like a crossgen at best.
I still think ghost 2 have rtgi and other rt effects and i definitely think it looks better than fable,also I know many here don't agree with me, and maybe they are the right ones if ghost 2 ends up not using any rt tech.
 

Utherellus

Member
We need more planetary-scaled games. It's time.



Where are promised next-gen sandboxes? Simulated universes?
Vast, real-time, interactive worlds without fake limitations, loading screens and cut corners that takes advantage of powerful hardware?

Game design is in such a comfort zone right now, it's sad af.

It's 2024 and instead of getting stunned by gameplay complexity and scale, we get disconnected from BlackOps6 single-player campaign.
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Gold Member
I still think ghost 2 have rtgi and other rt effects and i definitely think it looks better than fable,also I know many here don't agree with me, and maybe they are the right ones if ghost 2 ends up not using any rt tech.
You should rewatch the fable reveal, if the game looks like that i don't know how you can say that sushi2 looks better, with all respect.

And before you talk about possible downgrade, sushi1 got downdraded 2 times compared to reveal and first gameplay and sony teams lately kinda had a streak of downgrades...
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
You think callisto look better than sh2 remake?

Yeah disagree unless the pc version of callisto is like another game compared to the console version i played.

I think epic gifted me the pc version but i can't bring myself to play another minute of that donkey turd of a game to check how much better it looks :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
Sh2 looks better. I was talking about the cg cinematic feel the order, callisto and hellblade manage to capture.
 

Msamy

Member
You should rewatch the fable reveal, if the game looks like that i don't know how you can say that sushi2 looks better, with all respect.

And before you talk about possible downgrade, sushi1 got downdraded 2 times compared to reveal and first gameplay and sony teams lately kinda had a streak of downgrades...
There is very high chance of me ends up wrong but I still trust sucker punch unless sony miss with them like other first party studios.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
That video is a masterpiece though.
Wish it lasted even more, as always the case with these in-depth videos from John.
It's one of the worst tech reviews ever. It should be taught in schools on how to NOT review a game. Had it been a 50 minute expose on all the last gen effects and tech of the game trashing the premiere Sony studio then fine, id understand.

Instead it's a gushing 50 minute blowjob by a guy who is supposed to be objective. He should've asked why the game looks virtually identical to TLOU2, a PS4 game. He should've docked points for not including any ray tracing features. He should've compared it to other next gen games and asked why it doesn't even come close. He should've compared it to other remakes like Demon Souls. Hell, he should've asked why tlou1 looks worse in spots than tlou2. something he at least was a bit more objective about in the HZD remaster which also looks worse than HFW in several areas.

I understand Callisto and even Plague's Tale requiem weren't out by then, but ratchet, horizon fw, demon souls, re8, cyberpunk were. Compare it to those games. everyone shits on Alex for his PC bias, but my god, John is way too lenient on these sony first party studios. He needs to understand that its his job to critique graphics and literally compare these games to their contemporaries.

I think the fact that its been 4 years and insomniac games are the only first party sony games to feature ray tracing is literally because of tech outlets like DF and NX gamer fanboying all over these games and refusing to take sony to task over missing key next gen features this console was sold on.
 

Msamy

Member
It's one of the worst tech reviews ever. It should be taught in schools on how to NOT review a game. Had it been a 50 minute expose on all the last gen effects and tech of the game trashing the premiere Sony studio then fine, id understand.

Instead it's a gushing 50 minute blowjob by a guy who is supposed to be objective. He should've asked why the game looks virtually identical to TLOU2, a PS4 game. He should've docked points for not including any ray tracing features. He should've compared it to other next gen games and asked why it doesn't even come close. He should've compared it to other remakes like Demon Souls. Hell, he should've asked why tlou1 looks worse in spots than tlou2. something he at least was a bit more objective about in the HZD remaster which also looks worse than HFW in several areas.

I understand Callisto and even Plague's Tale requiem weren't out by then, but ratchet, horizon fw, demon souls, re8, cyberpunk were. Compare it to those games. everyone shits on Alex for his PC bias, but my god, John is way too lenient on these sony first party studios. He needs to understand that its his job to critique graphics and literally compare these games to their contemporaries.

I think the fact that its been 4 years and insomniac games are the only first party sony games to feature ray tracing is literally because of tech outlets like DF and NX gamer fanboying all over these games and refusing to take sony to task over missing key next gen features this console was sold on.
I Really didn't know how current gen title ends up looks worse than last gen title and the same thing happened with hzd remaster looks worse than HFW and we know that decima have rt features from DS2 trailers, but we are in the end of 2024 and they don't bother themselves to implement any rt feature into hzd remaster, by far the current most sony first party studio that developed it's engine with rt features and use it are insomniac (I attacked them very much because of sm2 graphics ), also it looks like that spiderman 2 and ratchent 2 will have upgraded version with full rt features in Ps5 pro. In the ND, guerilla and most sony first party studios didn't have any title with rt feature, SSM use some simple rt cubemaps in gow ragnorok reflections and I think ghost 2 have rtgi and other rt features but many here don't see that ( I think maybe I will ends up wrong) , hopefully Corry game will have good graphics if they show it at TGA
 
Last edited:

Vick

Gold Member
It's one of the worst tech reviews ever. It should be taught in schools on how to NOT review a game. Had it been a 50 minute expose on all the last gen effects and tech of the game trashing the premiere Sony studio then fine, id understand.

Instead it's a gushing 50 minute blowjob by a guy who is supposed to be objective. He should've asked why the game looks virtually identical to TLOU2, a PS4 game. He should've docked points for not including any ray tracing features. He should've compared it to other next gen games and asked why it doesn't even come close. He should've compared it to other remakes like Demon Souls. Hell, he should've asked why tlou1 looks worse in spots than tlou2. something he at least was a bit more objective about in the HZD remaster which also looks worse than HFW in several areas.

I understand Callisto and even Plague's Tale requiem weren't out by then, but ratchet, horizon fw, demon souls, re8, cyberpunk were. Compare it to those games. everyone shits on Alex for his PC bias, but my god, John is way too lenient on these sony first party studios. He needs to understand that its his job to critique graphics and literally compare these games to their contemporaries.

I think the fact that its been 4 years and insomniac games are the only first party sony games to feature ray tracing is literally because of tech outlets like DF and NX gamer fanboying all over these games and refusing to take sony to task over missing key next gen features this console was sold on.
I've figured a long time ago there's no point in discussing this with you.
Should be obvious to anyone gifted with thinking abilities why a manually crafted game like Part I, which doesn't rely on new rendering automations or pre-made scanned real world assets from a pre-existing library (and made in one year development time joint with another studio) "looks virtually identical" to Part II (a game that looked a whole generation above other games running on PS4, six years development time), running at twice the framerate at more than twice the resolution, four times if we count Fidelity..
That's their Engine, the same one they perfected in the last 17 years and their artists know inside out, and that was just ported to PC (with disastrous results).
It's obvious they thought RT implementation, on the machine they make games for, would have meant more sacrifices than gains at 60fps, something that's being perfectly shown by other games more and more each passing day.

So all I could tell you is to go back cheerleading for Star Wars: Outlaws, Spider-Man 2, Alan Wake 2, Jedi Survivor and Wukong, but in their versions on the same machine Part I runs at native 1440p and rock solid 60fps while looking the way it does:

lO4Zxoa.png


IdfwdVP.png


CsKRP4k.png


urr89WT.png


fZSvcMb.png


qaGpIFo.png


wiwOC9Q.png


88PBnVL.png


jRzB0cM.png


6OeP1iu.png


UBdwBsr.png


Or to keep posting that retarded 240p interior shot gif with flashlight turned off, ignoring for some reason the fact those dark interiors are supposed to showcase their light bounce features (along with the other thing no other rasterized game has, like their capsule AO), which are by the way still light years ahead not only full current gen games like Dead Space and Callisto Protocol, but even some games using ray traced flashlight bouce like current gen Resident Evil games:



As if I would post this from the "most advanced looking game" Alan Wake 2 maxed out as a perfect showcase of the fact it looks infinitely worse than Naughty Dog PS3 games.
And just to be clear, this is not the pathetic 847p version with broken reflections they had the guts to ship on the same machine Part I runs on, but the PC maxed out version:

C3mBNcb.jpg


Or I would post this as a complete representation of your praised Outlaws:

FU8Nrfr.gif


Because this how these games look and run on the same Part I machine.

Another one, you keep posting Silent Hill 2, I guess you're lucky to completely ignore how that game looks on Performance Mode on PS5 compared to Part I, with that entirely cut back lighting, awful IQ and broken reflections on an Engine 15 years newer than Naughty Dog's.

Callisto Protocol? The corridor game that doesn't even have shadows in its 60fps mode, and a PBR implementation where every material looks and behaves the same? The same game without bounce lighting?

Insomniac uses Ray Tracing? Well maybe they shouldn't if their games ultimately look the way they do on PS5, as Senua posted a few posts above, when they looked like this last-gen instead:

uaUBA6a.gif


oT0h8oj.gif

Yes, Demon Souls looks amazing, but for the same exact reasons Naughty Dog games do. Art and tech going hand in hand at 1440p and 60fps.

But as always your posts are a total decontextualized mess, almost as if there's not a single thought behind.

The worst possible kind of graphics whore, plays games on PC (at 30fps even) with "pay-to-win" automatic features like Ray Tracing or photogrammetry scanned assets and wonders why another game on PS5 result of countless man hours and artistry in manually crafting each corner doesn't look "as good", ignoring the fact those same fucking games on PS5 not only don't have Ray Tracing 9 times out of 10, but run at awful framerate at sub 1080p native resolutions..

He should've docked points for not including any ray tracing features

And this is really *chef kiss
Like, what the hell is so vital that PS5-like RT could bring to a game like Part I aside from lower resolution and worse framerate?
Their Engine has since 2016 a perfect artifact-free AO, Part I has sun PCSS shadows no one could distinguish from RT ones since they share the same principles, they use perfectly baked GI with their static time of day enviroments mixed with their unique capsule AO to visually dynamically interact with them in a way not many RT games allow even:





And as always they use their insane real-time dynamic GI simulation in every interior where dynamic lighting is required:



If they called their shadows and dynamic GI "Ray Tracing", would have made a single difference to you?

Maybe they should have reworked their entire pipeline to allow for RT reflections for those two or three puddles with already carefully placed cubemaps aligned with SSR:



But I'm sure there's a good reason they haven't yet because I'm not here in my room pretenting to know better than them.

So yes, I'd gladily take another million of these masterpieces from John (someone who is not only for damn sure more worthy of respect, but genuinely instesting and educational to listen to), covering these kind of marriages of art and tech, made with the end user experience always in mind, instead of the retardation that is pretending high end PC RT features at 60fps on a $500 machine from 2020, or even more retardation like wanting devs to not focus on something that should be basic and the norm like 60fps, only to pursue little pieces of tech clearly too demanding for these machines.
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I Really didn't know how current gen title ends up looks worse than last gen title and the same thing happened with hzd remaster looks worse than HFW and we know that decima have rt features from DS2 trailers, but we are in the end of 2024 and they don't bother themselves to implement any rt feature into hzd remaster, by far the current most sony first party studio that developed it's engine with rt features and use it are insomniac (I attacked them very much because of sm2 graphics ), also it looks like that spiderman 2 and ratchent 2 will have upgraded version with full rt features in Ps5 pro. In the ND, guerilla and most sony first party studios didn't have any title with rt feature, SSM use some simple rt cubemaps in gow ragnorok reflections and I think ghost 2 have rtgi and other rt features but many here don't see that ( I think maybe I will ends up wrong) , hopefully Corry game will have good graphics if they show it at TGA
Lack of Talent. Lack of Ambition. Nixxes were literally like too much work! Imagine if I said that to my boss, sorry, too much work, im going to skip adding these next gen features you added on this hardware.

ND has the talent but they clearly didnt want anything to do with the remake. They got stuck with it due to their own meddling and were left a mess that they created. If Neil wasnt out making tv shows, the team wouldve had something to work on and they wouldve just cancelled the remake, but since they had nothing to work on, they just took that on, and phoned it in instead of putting in an actual effort.

As for RT features, it's simply laziness. DICE, Remedy, 4A games had it working in 2018 and 2019. The same year PS5 was announced with RT features ND devs were praising on twitter. They had devkits back then according to Cerny himself. their ICE team couldve been working on it. GG's tech team could've been working on it. The fact that 2022 games didnt ship with it was bad enough, but 2024 games? inexcusable.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I've figured a long time ago there's no point in discussing this with you.
Should be obvious to anyone gifted with thinking abilities why a manually crafted game like Part I, which doesn't rely on new rendering automations or pre-made scanned real world assets from a pre-existing library (and made in one year development time joint with another studio) "looks virtually identical" to Part II (a game that looked a whole generation above other games running on PS4, six years development time), running at twice the framerate at more than twice the resolution, four times if we count Fidelity..
That's their Engine, the same one they perfected in the last 17 years and their artists know inside out, and that was just ported to PC (with disastrous results).
It's obvious they thought RT implementation on the machine they make games for would have meant more sacrifices than gains at 60fps, something that's being perfectly shown by other games more and more each passing day.

So all I could tell you is to go back cheerleading for Star Wars: Outlaws, Spider-Man 2, Alan Wake 2, Jedi Survivor and Wukong in their versions on the same machine Part I runs at native 1440p and rock solid 60fps while looking the way it does:

lO4Zxoa.png


IdfwdVP.png


CsKRP4k.png


urr89WT.png


fZSvcMb.png


qaGpIFo.png


wiwOC9Q.png


88PBnVL.png


jRzB0cM.png


6OeP1iu.png


UBdwBsr.png


Or to keep posting that retarded 240p interior shot gif with flashlight turned off, ignoring for some reason the fact those dark interiors are supposed to showcase their light bounce features (along with the other thing no other rasterized game has, like their capsule AO), which are by the way still light years ahead not only full current gen games like Dead Space and Callisto Protocol, but even some games using ray traced flashlight bouce like current gen Resident Evil games:



As if I would post this from the "most advanced looking game" Alan Wake 2 maxed out as a perfect showcase of the fact it looks infinitely worse than Naughty Dog PS3 games.
And just to be clear, this is not the pathetic 847p version with broken reflections they had the guts to ship on the same machine Part I runs on, but the PC maxed out version:

C3mBNcb.jpg


Or I would post this as a complete representation of your praised Outlaws:

FU8Nrfr.gif


Because this how these games look and run on the same Part I machine.

Another one, you keep posting Silent Hill 2, I guess you're lucky to completely ignore how that game looks on Performance Mode on PS5 compared to Part I, with that entirely cut back lighting, awful IQ and broken reflections on an Engine 15 years newer than Naughty Dog's.

Callisto Protocol? The corridor game that doesn't even have shadows in its 60fps mode, and a PBR implementation where every material looks and behaves the same? The same game without bounce lighting?

Insomniac uses Ray Tracing? Well maybe they shouldn't if their games ultimately look the way they do on PS5, as Senua posted a few posts above, when they looked like this last-gen instead:

uaUBA6a.gif


oT0h8oj.gif

Yes, Demon Souls looks amazing, but for the same exact reasons Naughty Dog games do. Art and tech going hand in hand at 1440p and 60fps.

But as always your posts are a total decontextualized mess, almost as if there's not a single thought behind.

The worst possible kind of graphics whore, plays games on PC (at 30fps even) with "pay-to-win" automatic features like Ray Tracing or photogrammetry scanned assets and wonders why another game on PS5 result of countless man hours and artistry in manually crafting each corner doesn't look "as good", ignoring the fact those same fucking games on PS5 not only don't have Ray Tracing 9 times out of 10, but run at awful framerate at sub 1080p native resolutions..



And this is really *chef kiss
Like, what the hell is so vital that PS5-like RT could bring to a game like Part I aside from lower resolution and worse framerate?
Their Engine has since 2016 a perfect artifact-free AO, Part I has sun PCSS shadows no one could distinguish from RT ones since they share the same principles, they use perfectly baked GI with their static time of day enviroments mixed with their unique capsule AO to visually dynamically interact with them in a way not many RT games allow even:





And as always they use their insane real-time dynamic GI simulation in every interior where dynamic lighting is required:



If they called their shadows and dynamic GI "Ray Tracing" would have made a single difference to you?

Maybe they should have reworked their entire pipeline to allow for RT reflections for those two or three puddles with already carefully placed cubemaps aligned with SSR:



But I'm sure there's a good reason they haven't yet because I'm not here in my room pretenting to know better than them.

So yes, I'd gladily take another million of these masterpieces from John (someone who is not only for damn sure more worthy of respect, but genuinely instesting and educational to listen to), covering these kind of marriages of art and tech, made with the end user experience always in mind, instead of the retardation that is pretending high end PC RT features at 60fps on a $500 machine from 2020, or even more retardation like wanting devs to not focus on something that should be basic and the norm like 60fps, only to pursue little pieces of tech clearly too demanding for these machines.

If all you want from next gen is 60 fps with last gen graphics then good for you. Not sure what you are doing in this thread though. Maybe you should start a new thread titled, "Graphics fidelity I expected from Last Gen" .

P.S Those TLOU1 screenshots dont look as good as you think they do.
 

Vick

Gold Member
One last thing, my previous message (which I just realized reads much more confrontational than it really was intended) was still in reference to relatively quick releases like Part I and Part II Remaster, I obviously expect the moon from Naughty Dog next proper game after TLOU Part II four years ago, surely more than "similar" visuals to the last gen game it was, no matter how incredible.

And given how much I hate the visual inconsistencies in Uncharted 4 resulted from the chaotic and rushed development, I want them to take all their time they need for their games. Four years since their last game while releasing a Remake, a Remaster with a new gameplay Mode, and a whole cancelled project is absolutely nothing for the kind of games they make.

Nobody gives a shit Rockstar takes 10 years to release their games, as long as it shows and, so far, it always did.

All I'm concerned about ND next game is the potential ideology behind it, sure as hell not visuals and tech and I want to trust this rumor:

Naughty Dog's Next Game Will Offer Lots of Player Freedom - You Are Not Ready For How Amazing It Looks


If all you want from next gen is 60 fps with last gen graphics then good for you. Not sure what you are doing in this thread though. Maybe you should start a new thread titled, "Graphics fidelity I expected from Last Gen" .

P.S Those TLOU1 screenshots dont look as good as you think they do.
If those "last gen" graphics you mention still look visually more appealing than an awful lot of games releasing today thanks to the whole package they provide, with little nuances and visual aspects/tricks actually unparalleled, and if in order to get "current gen" graphics I need to settle for 30fps or abysmal IQ.. well..

Dumb And Dumber GIF


But I'll leave you to your Thread.
 

powder

Neo Member
I've figured a long time ago there's no point in discussing this with you.
Should be obvious to anyone gifted with thinking abilities why a manually crafted game like Part I, which doesn't rely on new rendering automations or pre-made scanned real world assets from a pre-existing library (and made in one year development time joint with another studio) "looks virtually identical" to Part II (a game that looked a whole generation above other games running on PS4, six years development time), running at twice the framerate at more than twice the resolution, four times if we count Fidelity..
That's their Engine, the same one they perfected in the last 17 years and their artists know inside out, and that was just ported to PC (with disastrous results).
It's obvious they thought RT implementation on the machine they make games for would have meant more sacrifices than gains at 60fps, something that's being perfectly shown by other games more and more each passing day.

So all I could tell you is to go back cheerleading for Star Wars: Outlaws, Spider-Man 2, Alan Wake 2, Jedi Survivor and Wukong in their versions on the same machine Part I runs at native 1440p and rock solid 60fps while looking the way it does:

lO4Zxoa.png


IdfwdVP.png


CsKRP4k.png


urr89WT.png


fZSvcMb.png


qaGpIFo.png


wiwOC9Q.png


88PBnVL.png


jRzB0cM.png


6OeP1iu.png


UBdwBsr.png


Or to keep posting that retarded 240p interior shot gif with flashlight turned off, ignoring for some reason the fact those dark interiors are supposed to showcase their light bounce features (along with the other thing no other rasterized game has, like their capsule AO), which are by the way still light years ahead not only full current gen games like Dead Space and Callisto Protocol, but even some games using ray traced flashlight bouce like current gen Resident Evil games:



As if I would post this from the "most advanced looking game" Alan Wake 2 maxed out as a perfect showcase of the fact it looks infinitely worse than Naughty Dog PS3 games.
And just to be clear, this is not the pathetic 847p version with broken reflections they had the guts to ship on the same machine Part I runs on, but the PC maxed out version:

C3mBNcb.jpg


Or I would post this as a complete representation of your praised Outlaws:

FU8Nrfr.gif


Because this how these games look and run on the same Part I machine.

Another one, you keep posting Silent Hill 2, I guess you're lucky to completely ignore how that game looks on Performance Mode on PS5 compared to Part I, with that entirely cut back lighting, awful IQ and broken reflections on an Engine 15 years newer than Naughty Dog's.

Callisto Protocol? The corridor game that doesn't even have shadows in its 60fps mode, and a PBR implementation where every material looks and behaves the same? The same game without bounce lighting?

Insomniac uses Ray Tracing? Well maybe they shouldn't if their games ultimately look the way they do on PS5, as Senua posted a few posts above, when they looked like this last-gen instead:

uaUBA6a.gif


oT0h8oj.gif

Yes, Demon Souls looks amazing, but for the same exact reasons Naughty Dog games do. Art and tech going hand in hand at 1440p and 60fps.

But as always your posts are a total decontextualized mess, almost as if there's not a single thought behind.

The worst possible kind of graphics whore, plays games on PC (at 30fps even) with "pay-to-win" automatic features like Ray Tracing or photogrammetry scanned assets and wonders why another game on PS5 result of countless man hours and artistry in manually crafting each corner doesn't look "as good", ignoring the fact those same fucking games on PS5 not only don't have Ray Tracing 9 times out of 10, but run at awful framerate at sub 1080p native resolutions..



And this is really *chef kiss
Like, what the hell is so vital that PS5-like RT could bring to a game like Part I aside from lower resolution and worse framerate?
Their Engine has since 2016 a perfect artifact-free AO, Part I has sun PCSS shadows no one could distinguish from RT ones since they share the same principles, they use perfectly baked GI with their static time of day enviroments mixed with their unique capsule AO to visually dynamically interact with them in a way not many RT games allow even:





And as always they use their insane real-time dynamic GI simulation in every interior where dynamic lighting is required:



If they called their shadows and dynamic GI "Ray Tracing" would have made a single difference to you?

Maybe they should have reworked their entire pipeline to allow for RT reflections for those two or three puddles with already carefully placed cubemaps aligned with SSR:



But I'm sure there's a good reason they haven't yet because I'm not here in my room pretenting to know better than them.

So yes, I'd gladily take another million of these masterpieces from John (someone who is not only for damn sure more worthy of respect, but genuinely instesting and educational to listen to), covering these kind of marriages of art and tech, made with the end user experience always in mind, instead of the retardation that is pretending high end PC RT features at 60fps on a $500 machine from 2020, or even more retardation like wanting devs to not focus on something that should be basic and the norm like 60fps, only to pursue little pieces of tech clearly too demanding for these machines.

Less talk, more screenshot
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
If those "last gen" graphics you mention still look visually more appealing than an awful lot of games releasing today
they dont though.

your own screenshots and videos prove how dated they look.

Have you actually played these games? Serious question because you didnt play spiderman 2. Have you played Alan Wake 2, Silent hill 2, Black Myth, Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws and Hellblade 2?
 

DanielG165

Member
I think for the most part, outside of a select handful of studios that can really eek out every last bit of performance from the current gen consoles to make RT a viable option without heavy sacrifices, we’re ultimately not going to get much else at this point. I’d be more than happy and excited to be proven wrong, but base PS5, and SX just aren’t that great at RT, despite having the hardware for it.

Outlaws and Hellblade 2, as two examples, work the hardware on both “premium” machines to their absolute limits. We’ve certainly seen some impressive results from other games, don’t get me wrong. Metro Exodus Enhanced, Avatar, and Alan Wake 2 are a few examples. However, I believe that the PS5 Pro will act as a bridge of sorts to push console hardware into a place where genuinely good RT is viable on a much more consistent basis. Right now though, it’s very much like a car in high gear trying to go up a hill. It’ll do it, but it won’t necessarily like doing it.

For me, if I want RT on a grander scale with higher FPS being a real possibility as well, my PC is the place I go to have that experience. Consoles will get there in time, the gen after this being where we’ll see some nice gains and improvements.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think for the most part, outside of a select handful of studios that can really eek out every last bit of performance from the current gen consoles to make RT a viable option without heavy sacrifices, we’re ultimately not going to get much else at this point. I’d be more than happy and excited to be proven wrong, but base PS5, and SX just aren’t that great at RT, despite having the hardware for it.

Outlaws and Hellblade 2, as two examples, work the hardware on both “premium” machines to their absolute limits. We’ve certainly seen some impressive results from other games, don’t get me wrong. Metro Exodus Enhanced, Avatar, and Alan Wake 2 are a few examples. However, I believe that the PS5 Pro will act as a bridge of sorts to push console hardware into a place where genuinely good RT is viable on a much more consistent basis. Right now though, it’s very much like a car in high gear trying to go up a hill. It’ll do it, but it won’t necessarily like doing it.

For me, if I want RT on a grander scale with higher FPS being a real possibility as well, my PC is the place I go to have that experience. Consoles will get there in time, the gen after this being where we’ll see some nice gains and improvements.
I expect ray tracing from these games because they are literally not doing anything else thats next gen. So i'm like at least tack on RT as an afterthought. RT is not required to make games look next gen. They could use higher quality assets, way better baked lighting, and give us something like Deep Down or the Rebirth ue4 demo. Neither used RT.

they least they couldve done was add RT in HZD to fix some of the issues that were present in HFW. Same goes for TLOU1, If you are going to reuse TLOU2 assets and lighting, fine, just tack on an RT feature or two. Dont just copy paste. Do SOMETHING. Ghost of Tsushima 2 looks way too similar to the first game. Why do the character models look worse than the pre-render trailer for the first game? I can excuse the smallish leap if they were spending all that gpu budget on RT effects because i know it will ultimately result in a more cohesive title. But again, thats the bare minimum i expect.



RT isnt the only thing thats not being utilized by these first party studios. No one is using the primitive/mesh shaders. No one other than insomniac is using the IO tech; cerny's so-called super secret sauce. no is using the CPU to push physics or destruction. 8 cores 16 threads running at 3.5 ghz. A massive upgrade from 8 cores 8 threads running at 1.6 ghz. And nothing. Again, insomniac did use it to increase traffic and NPC density so props to them.

I would take TLOU1 that had full scale destruction with PS4 quality graphics. I would've taken a TLOU1 with the e3 2018 graphics fidelity, the character models, the physics, and motion matching animations. Fuck RT. I wouldve given up my left nut to play the E3 2018 demo.

YFFP314.gif


 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think they’re definitely using nanite even if only selectively. Check out the triangles being used here:

V7CC5NX.jpeg
Interesting. Just googled it and the devs confirmed they used nanite.

Built with Unreal Engine 5​

We are updating the Silent Hill 2 experience comprehensively. With the possibilities of the Unreal Engine 5, we’re bringing the foggy, sinister town to life in ways that were impossible up to this point. The game will delight PlayStation 5 players visually, auditorily, and sensorily.

Some of the Unreal Engine 5 features that really shine are Lumen and Nanite. With them we’re raising the graphics to new, highly-detailed and realistic levels, while turning the game’s signature nerve-racking atmosphere to eleven.


Lumen is a fully dynamic global illumination solution that immediately reacts to scene and light changes. It means that the light interacts with the environment realistically, just like in the real world. The whole game environment is lit more naturally this way. The Nanite technology, on the other hand, is an amazing tool for level designers. With it, they can create incredibly detailed worlds and more realistic environments that look and feel almost lifelike.
 
no is using the CPU to push physics or destruction. 8 cores 16 threads running at 3.5 ghz. A massive upgrade from 8 cores 8 threads running at 1.6 ghz. And nothing. Again, insomniac did use it to increase traffic and NPC density so props to them.
Worth mentioning that not only the clocks and threads were doubled, but a single Zen 2 core was easily four times faster than a Jaguar one by default. There's no way they have already been tapped into unlike the GPU, I'd say it's the only department this gen that received a truly massive generational improvement, at least Insomniac did push the streaming and traffic density hard.
 
Last edited:

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Fine.
gw6BH2e.gif


Are we sure SH2 doesnt use nanite? At times, it uses these extremely highly detailed assets that scream nanite. This particular room even had a burst of wind blow in and scatter a bunch of these books and files on the ground. Amazing physics. I wish the entire game was like this.
There is your answer
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
nanite doesnt support physics?
There is a limited what you can do with Nanite mesh, but better answer for it, is that it is inefficient to move nanite mesh around, thus so far its not used like that. Granted you could still enable Nanite for other objects and leave those which are moving without Nanite. However I have not seen anything in SH2:R which would need Nanite, there aren't any really complex geometrical objects there as far as I've seen
 

Vick

Gold Member
your own screenshots and videos prove how dated they look.
Maybe, but screenshots can only tell so much when there's many other things adding rendering ms that only shows in motion.
But I guess insignificant stuff like unparalled but responsive animations/motion blending, dynamic GI, capsule AO, particles.. the destruction you just mentioned:

Jccr0o2.gif


AI, high native resolution, clean IQ, 60fps, zero stutter.. well nothing counts. It's all resource free..

Have you actually played these games? Serious question because you didnt play spiderman 2. Have you played Alan Wake 2, Silent hill 2, Black Myth, Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws and Hellblade 2?
You mean these:

Avatar drops to 720p and does not hold 60 fps. Alan Wake 2 looks like a shimmering mess at 60 fps

Only sony first party games have decent 60 fps modes and they dont even use nanite or lumen.

I haven't played Spider-Man 2 because I don't feel like supporting it, but played Callisto Protocol, Alan Wake 2, Wukong and Silent Hill 2 up until you reach the town as I'm waiting for Pro due to those awful shimmering reflections everywhere, bad IQ, absent AO on vegetation, downgraded lighting..

All those games look undeniably worse than Part I in their 60fps modes.
Callisto Protocol looked absolutely insane in screenshot to the point I claimed at one point it was the best looking game ever, and as soon as I started it when they released it on Plus I immediately noticed every PBR material visually shared the same properties almost the same way those old UE3 games did, not to mention the entirely fucking missing shadows.
Wukong is an unresponsive, pixelated, dithered mess, but with incredible looking enviroments and characters and assets, Alan Wake 2 has many good things, some excellent, but also sub par skin shaders, an abysmal IQ, laughable and distracting as fuck reflections, extremely weird lighting outdoor with some genuine PS2 looking stuff like vegetation appearing from thin air in front of the player with no LOD whatsoever, and that's something you can even notice in the PC max image I posted previously (and it's much worse than that, as if it was even possible, on PS5), like what the actual 1995 RenderMan fuck is this?

LREZiyn.jpg


Here your "PS4 game" in comparison:

IdfwdVP.png


6hHSspU.png


DBQparA.png


I8sDdti.png


And as for Avatar, you mean this Avatar?

K4mU4Xa.png


It's obvious to you the concept of a "whole package" doesn't mean anything, only good stuff here and there, mostly on PC and automated, when everyone knows Naughty Dog's philosophy for a decade at this point is wanting to do everything at the same time; good and responsive animations, stable framerate, good IQ, 100% hand-painted textures (all of them), original assets, artifact free/always perfect looking AO, capsule AO for dynamic soft shadows and baked light occlusion, volumetric lighting, volumetric shadows on water, motion blending, engaging AI, physics, sub surface scattering across the board for characters, water and vegetation, cloth physics, interactive foliage, impeccable PRB, and the countless little details they love.

But naturally none of this matters.

And as for HellBlade 2, if getting laughed at by morons like S Schmendrick after wasting that much time typing basic facts only wasn't enough to convince my ass to get the fuck out of this Thread, you mentioning the barely interactive 2024 30fps black bars UE5 Hellblade 2 did the trick.

Have fun.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom