YeulEmeralda
Linux User
I always thought Dragon Quest 11 looked better than Breath of the wild. But what do I know?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
HighPoly
Banned
The artistic choice is something beautiful, but I hope to see something like this tech demo for WiiU, on next console!
Just slapping 4k resolution on BoTW makes it one of the best looking games out there.
But I always think about how beautiful Marios is gonna look like, like, we're playing the bullshots from 90's used on Nintendo tape cover, just like that!
I mean, take a look at Mario Odyssey, We are finally running this level graphics in real time. So what to expect from the next gen console??
Lethal01
Member
I honesty, totally respect that but I after playing BoTW I just have zero desire for it, it's one of my favourite styles in gaming period while the tech demo one feels kinda generic in comparison. Not saying I wouldn't enjoy it if we got it but BoTW just fits squarely into my personal tastes and I'm just hoping for more of that with some minor enhancement.
Again, I feel the BoTW stylization helps it immensely and unlike something like that tech demo it doesn't actually need strong hardware to do everything the artists want it to while something as realistic as the tech demo will still be noticeably unrealistic..
That said, I'm not saying that there is zero benefit to it. Better geometry + No Pop in + shadows from emissive lights would be good but the end result would still be indistinguishable from a lot of what we have now. It would basically just be giving a clearer look at what we see right now. The kind of upgrade that people in this thread hate and don't consider next gen.
Obviously this is all subjective I'm not actually trying to convince anyone that the BoTW artstyle is objectively superior to what they like.
However much like something like Final Fantasy tactics I think using more hardware on it would mostly just make it different rather than better.
Basically I think BoTW will easily compete visually with Final Fantasy 22 on PS8
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
But we also want to play Zelda looking like this where the art really shines.
Just like the new Mario movie, you can have that art style and stylistic look with much much better graphics thats more enjoyable to wacth and play.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Hell fuckin no. It looks like such a minor improvement over the first. Combat looks the same too.
All these previews from people that were flown out to LA and were provided with free accommodations are no biased in the least. "It's better in every way" . Yeah, but how much better?
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I dunno man I can see the difference easily in Forbidden West. Every game with fidelity vs performance there's a difference.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
The only big noticeable difference visually is the water reflections, its pixelated in performance mode vs high res in fidelity mode.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Really? What about lods and lighting? Pretty sure some other things got tuned down
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Ofcourse there are other differences but the water reflections where the most noticeable for me.
Probably depends a lot on distance from screen. I'm a bit further back now because we had to change the room around a bit.
I'm about 9ft or so from a 65" screen, for reference.
Of course, even if it did look worse in terms of resolution, I'd still play in performance cos of how spectacularly bad the fidelity mode looks in motion.
E-Cat
Member
Wow, this image of Lake Hylia is stunning. Is it from the CryZenx OoT UE5 project? Do you have a link to a video?But we also want to play Zelda looking like this where the art really shines.
Speaking of CryZenx, he implemented a stunning water physics plugin in what looks like the Great Bay shore in MM. I can't believe a single person can make visuals like this with today's tools, and Nintendo is still stuck with 2005 era hardware...smh
Last edited:
E-Cat
Member
This eats at me daily.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
E-Cat
Member
Speaking of which, how about Wind Waker with these water physics?? Imagine being Aonuma and coming up with a game revolving around sailing... and then making the whole bloody ocean a blue texture.
E-Cat
Member
Thanks, but this isn't CryZenx -- it's a different guy also remaking OoT in UE5. :O What a time to be alive!
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
To be fair one of the better feeling 30 fps ps5 games. It's up there with the Spiderman games and Ratchet. It also has a fidelity/40 fps mode.
I agree with you though the 60 fps feels much better.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I'm super annoyed that the entirety of the Jedi Survivor "preview event" they did not show ONE SECOND of ps5/series x footage.
Devs should be called out for this, savagely, by game "journlists". People who own it on console want to see how the game actually looks on our hardware before paying $70 -$100. Is it really in such bad shape compared to PC that they don't have enough confidence/integrity to show it?
This is one of the practices in modern gaming that drives me up a tree. Now, because all these YouTube shills wont address the elephant in the room it becomes a crap shoot as to whether it even runs any good. Like come on we have pretty good hardware if there's ever a time to show your game off its now.
Devs should be called out for this, savagely, by game "journlists". People who own it on console want to see how the game actually looks on our hardware before paying $70 -$100. Is it really in such bad shape compared to PC that they don't have enough confidence/integrity to show it?
This is one of the practices in modern gaming that drives me up a tree. Now, because all these YouTube shills wont address the elephant in the room it becomes a crap shoot as to whether it even runs any good. Like come on we have pretty good hardware if there's ever a time to show your game off its now.
HighPoly
Banned
Understood, Well, Do you think Switch 2 will reach 1,8 Teraflops?? What do you think is possible with that, in terms of games and mecanics???
1,8 TF on portable and 3,6 TF on Table Docked??
Last edited:
Lethal01
Member
But we also want to play Zelda looking like this where the art really shines.
No, to me this is a HUGE downgrade from BoTW, more realistic and detailed does not equal better
Just like the new Mario movie, you can have that art style and stylistic look with much much better graphics thats more enjoyable to wacth and play.
I don't see this as an upgrade from in game bowser at all, not everything needs to go for the Pixar brand of stylization.
I want more things like this
This does not benefit from becoming more detailed or more realistic, much like BoTW
What I want is for the game to look like the teaser, nothing less and nothing more
Super simple, but sharp and clear textures. Emmisive objects that really cast light, again, just give me botw but clearer and more consistent.
Last edited:
HighPoly
Banned
No, to me this is a HUGE downgrade from BoTW, more realistic and detailed does not equal better
I don't see this as an upgrade from in game bowser at all, not everything needs to go for the Pixar brand of stylization.
I want more things like this
This does not benefit from becoming more detailed or more realistic, much like BoTW
What I want is for the game to look like the teaser, nothing less and nothing more
Super simple, but sharp and clear textures. Emmisive objects that really cast light, again, just give me botw but clearer and more consistent.
May you answer my question up there? pls
Lethal01
Member
1.8TF is possible for sure, I suppose that would be my guess on where Switch lands, but that's what I would guess for docked.
I don't see any mechanics that would really benefit from a GPU increase or atleast non that I was wanting in previous games.
I would say maybe something with big crowds that you control but again, we could do that now just with worse looking graphics. Using BoTW as an example I could see there being less limitations on the amount of items that could be on the ground as the game does make some dissapear if you drop to many.
Last edited:
Lethal01
Member
It kinda is though, you are saying having a stylized Zelda game and a slightly more detailed and realistic one would be great, I'm saying I want two super stylized Zelda games instead.
I jsut think stuff like this
is super ugly compared to botw and I don't really want time and resources going into creating it.
jshaver488
Member
No. Maybe close to 1.8 tflops docked.
But then we will also have a better cpu and dlss 2.1.
E-Cat
Member
I like the super realistic rendering of it, that's not to say BotW doesn't have a more professional art direction. But you kinda have to extrapolate a Nintendo game with that UE5 coat of paint, and it would be glorious. Even realistic light transport simulation can have various art styles, some more cartoonish than others. Just look at Pixar movies, no one ever said "gee, I wish the path tracing had fever passes to make the world look less coherent".
Last edited:
Lethal01
Member
While I can agree things like raytracing can be used even in super stylized art since screen space effects are often not part of the style, I would actually say being incoherent is often the appeal of a lot of stylized art "assuming we are one the same page in what we mean by coherent". Honestly I've not been a far of the direction Pixar has gone at all and I'm extremely happy that we are getting more things like Into the Spiderverse, puss in boots, Beastars etc.
I've hated this strive for "realistic stylization" for atleast a decade.
Tons of stylized art is good because it's physically wrong, sometime you don't want everything to cast a shadow for example. Again though, i got an example of exactly where I want Zelda to go and it's here.
The shadows are detailed and consistent, and emmissive objects actually cast light, but the smoke and lighting are extremely innacurate and look great because of it. I don't want super realistic rendering, I just want thing like long draw distance and high object density to be achievable when needed.
Last edited:
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
No, to me this is a HUGE downgrade from BoTW, more realistic and detailed does not equal better
I don't see this as an upgrade from in game bowser at all, not everything needs to go for the Pixar brand of stylization.
I want more things like this
This does not benefit from becoming more detailed or more realistic, much like BoTW
What I want is for the game to look like the teaser, nothing less and nothing more
Super simple, but sharp and clear textures. Emmisive objects that really cast light, again, just give me botw but clearer and more consistent.
But the reason most nintendo games look like that is because the lack of power and tech. And im sure if the devs had some high end console they would love to make Zelda and Mario look like those images i showed. Also we don't have that many pixar looking games anyway, Ratchet, Kena & Mario games. Zelda's art fits perfectly for that style. And like H Hunnybun said we haven't had a Nintendo game like Mario or Zelda with cutting edge graphics for over a decade. You had your game with that style which is ok but we also deserve to have a zelda with some high tech graphics like the Unreal Engine 5 project. Again nothing against that style and its perfectly fine if you prefer that over UE5 renders, but imo its holding them back big time.
HighPoly
Banned
A new Zelda using the Horizon Forbidden West Geometry must be amazing, I don't wanna see a realistic Zelda, but an amazing tech built
Lethal01
Member
Nah,
I highly doubt the high fi Rush devs are clamoring for PS6 so they can finally switch to realism
And I'm gonna bet the guilty gear strive devs aren't gonna aim to be pixar when they switch to UE5
There are developers at Nintendo that lean more towards the pixar style, I'd say Mario Oddysey lends itself more to it and yeah I could see Mario going in that direction, but Nintendo isn't gonna switch styles for all their games as soon as they got the power to do so. I mean think back to the gamecube era when they had about as much graphical power as everyone else, Did all their games become realtic or did we get
Continue to what you want, I will continue to want what I want, sadly either of us getting what we want means the other doesn't.
Last edited:
No, I'm saying stylized graphics still hugely benefit from computing power.
You only have to look at the original trailer compared to the finished BOTW to see that.
I never actually said I want a realistic looking Zelda. Personally I always liked the look of Wind Waker, even right from the original reveal when everyone was losing their minds over it. But part of what made it look great was that it was running on a powerful system.
Lethal01
Member
Well then we agree, although I will say that stylistically I much prefer the look of the final game versus the first teaser, But the game would definitely look far better if it was just running at 4k 60 and use raytracing to make it so that screenspace effects stay stop dissapearing at random time.
Again, I just want the tears of the kingdom reveal teaser in realtime. Don't want the geometry or textures any more complex than that.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Visually? Not in a single sense.
The actual game looks good for what they're trying to do design wise. It's about all you could reasonably expect from a Fallen Order sequel.
But the visuals are not what you expect from a #nextgenonly title.
You can tell that they had to spend less time making Cal look as high fidelity as possible to facilitate heavy customisation.
The animation work is awful. Locomotion got ripped from the PS2 gen.
The geometry is dense, but it's nothing groundbreaking, and there's something plastic-y about the textures.
Said it before in this thread, but it's not like we should be surprised. Nobody ever accused Respawn of pushing the technological limit before.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Man, I am so disappointed by Nintendo. I remember looking at Gamecube games looking next gen compared to stuff on PS2. Rouge Squadron, RE0, RE4, Wind Waker. Just the colors, my goodness they popped. Hell, even the wii u had some stunning looking games like wonderful 101. And we know that zelda tech demo ran realtime on the wii u.
It's shocking how much switch and their decision to take zelda and mario open world have held back visuals. Zelda looks absolutely atrocious and odyssey looks worse in comparison to SM3D worlds. I admire their decision to push the boundries in game design, but just like bayonetta 3, when the image quality and level of detail is that bad there is no saving the game.
I really hope the next mario game is a switch 2 exclusive. i dont care if its 1.3 tflops or 2.6 tflops, it cannot run on a 0.19 tflops handheld in 2024.
P.S Compare Ratchet to the CG in the Mario movie and you'll see that Ratchet couldve looked a whole lot better. Thats a movie rendered in 1080p and looks absolutely leagues ahead of ratchet.
It's shocking how much switch and their decision to take zelda and mario open world have held back visuals. Zelda looks absolutely atrocious and odyssey looks worse in comparison to SM3D worlds. I admire their decision to push the boundries in game design, but just like bayonetta 3, when the image quality and level of detail is that bad there is no saving the game.
I really hope the next mario game is a switch 2 exclusive. i dont care if its 1.3 tflops or 2.6 tflops, it cannot run on a 0.19 tflops handheld in 2024.
P.S Compare Ratchet to the CG in the Mario movie and you'll see that Ratchet couldve looked a whole lot better. Thats a movie rendered in 1080p and looks absolutely leagues ahead of ratchet.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
Si
Last edited:
HighPoly
Banned
I hope to see something incredible in the next Spider Man
E-Cat
Member
It does, yeah.
paolo11
Member
Heck yes. I so can’t wait. It will be beauty for sure .
In my opinion, God of war is next gen as well. The models are way too good. Street Fighter 6 too and FF16
7 Rebirth, I know it will be beautiful but Remake is already too good. Maybe better IQ 4k and stable fps if posisble?
E-Cat
Member
We're still a good 15-25 years away from visual perfection in real-time graphics (and that's assuming with some discontinuities vis-a-vis the current pace of change, like AI NeRF rendering). Another thing that will also take AI to perfect is fluid, lifelike animation, that's on a whole another tier of difficulty.
HighPoly
Banned
Yeah, we are living the most exciting Nintendo moment in history, cause we can't even imagine what's goona look like the newer games using more than 0,600 Teraflops. I mean, something around 1,8 TF at 1080p 30fps must be amazing, with all those artistic talent from Nintendo
Last edited by a moderator:
GymWolf
Member
Nah, too many meh textures if you look carefully, it is not as even as a demons remake (and i played the whole thing maxed out on pc in 4k), and like you said, characters are not really better than remakes from like 2-3 years ago, after seeing horizon or hellbalde 2 the excuse that they were already too good is pretty lame tbh, they have big margin for improvements.
Horizon smash it into pieces and that it's a crossgen full fledged open world opposed to a nextgen only relatively small game (i mean, it's smaller than other story driven games like tlou2 or gow2018 or ragnarock)
Last edited:
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
GymWolf
Member
I think it's just metahuman for ue5, like a work tool.
But for ue5 games i don't se why they can't reach this quality at least during cutscenes.
Last edited:
H . R . 2
Member
the title reads 'path tracing' and the channel is JSFILMZ apparently so probably rendered
but it is well within reach , ND and GG and Insomniac are more than capable
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Way too many low res textures, abysmal water, and horrendous fire effects/explosions. also the facial animation and character models in cutscenes lack detail. Where it shines is lighting.
probably yes
HighPoly
Banned
Remember Guys, Ratchet Clank is just the first 3D Platform game well made by Insomaniac for PS5. So can you even imagine how beautiful the next sequel is gonna look like?
Ratchet is already near or surpessed from Toy Story 1995... I just can't imagine the next one...
Ratchet is already near or surpessed from Toy Story 1995... I just can't imagine the next one...
Last edited:
paolo11
Member
I mean when I look it at normally RE4 remake looks next gen. Of course Horizon is top tier.
But I agree it has low Textures. Not perfect but still next gen beauty imo