Syriza are doing the right thing by putting this to a referendum, either way they will have the will of the greek people behind them and that will likely keep them in power. Amazes me how many are against democracy.
Raw popular vote is not the way to run a country.
Leaders (who are presumably more experienced people) are elected to do a job. Not to pander to popular whims.
Otherwise you get things like what happened in CA in 2008. Where the government allowed marriage equality, the people demanded a popular vote, and "democracy" decided that gay marriage should be deemed illegal.
Just another smoke screen.
Of course they can´t be kicked out of the Eurozone, there is no law making this even possible.
They would be forced to leave on their own account, simply when the money runs out in a literal sense. If the ECB is not providing them with Euros anymore, they have to hand out something to pay pensions and the like. Even if they are debt certificates denominated in Euro, they´d for all practically be a second currency, as they would be traded against cash.
Greece could always print IOUs like CA did. That is a potential short term solution.
Though it would have to somehow keep the money coming in, in order to have an expectation of paying those back later.
Even with perfect knowledge, there is an old vs young dynamic at play. Under austerity, the youth are arguably suffering more. You hear a lot about the suffering of pensioners, but unemployed young people are in a worse position in the long term if there is an extended recession. On the other hand, a Eurozone exit - and subsequent hyperinflation - would hurt the old more than the young, because they are more likely to have retirement savings that could be severely devalued if not held in foreign assets.
I would argue the inverse. The youth have the ability (and the flexibility in their lives) to move elsewhere in Europe and work, just as someone from a poor state in the US can move to a richer state where there are more job opportunities.
Older people don't have that flexibility. Their support structures are in place. Family ties are local. It's not anywhere near as easy for them to up and move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU
EU is a joke. EU taxpayers are as much victims as Greeks.
Maybe if you'd bothered to do even a tiny bit of research before posting falsehoods (and slurs) you would know the answer.
1) Junker's "alcoholism" reports all source from a "leaked" intelligence report that came out in June of 2014 during a political campaign.
2) Dijsselbloem never lied about his degree. He earned a MA. The Finance Ministry confused the college that conferred it because he did part of his studies at a sister school. Some data entry person goofed.
3) Calling Lagarde a "bitch" because she's a successful woman.
God forbid you ever marry a woman who makes more than you with a misogynistic attitude like that. Guess what? Not all women spend their lives at home, taking care of the kitchen and kids.
well the EU fucked Greek agriculture. Greece is forced to import bad quality milk and meat from abroad, while exporting her best quality biological food abroad. Farmers are paid not to produce.
1 cart of milk here consists of mixed 70-30. 70 % is the biological Greek milk, 30 % is the milk from abroad where animal conditions are not the best. This 30 % barely allows the minimum quality to make milk drinkable.
CAP benefits Greece and Ireland more than any other EU nations (with France also coming in at the top of the list).
CAP dates back to 1957 and is designed to ensure stability in both food availability and prices, as both were in great flux in the years after WWII.
CAP is designed to ensure that food production rules are similar across territories and that no one foodstuff is overproduced at the expense of others. It also ensures minimum pricing for EU agriculture, while implementing protectionist taxes which make foreign produced food more expensive.
If Greece were to leave the EU, Greece's agriculture industry would lose all the protections of CAP and would likely be devastated as exports to the EU would be taxed, making them more expensive than EU produced goods, while at the same time, Greece would have to compete with the developing world, which is still heavily agricultural and can produce goods extremely cheaply.
http://www.koutipandoras.gr/article...manoi-epimenoyn-stin-ayxisi-toy-fpa-sta-nisia
Quick and dirty translation (courtesy of Google Translate):
Read why the Germans insist on the VAT increase on the islands
In German companies owned hotels on the Turkish coast of Asia Minor. The vast majority of hotels on the Turkish coast opposite the Greek islands controlled by German TUI interests and others. This largely explains their persistence in not covered islands to special arrangements for VAT. An increase in VAT would raise prices and would motivate the groups of tourists in the opposite Turkish coast and hotels located there.
The defense minister Panos Blazing who made the disclosure on Monday commented on koutipandoras.gr: «Germany is pushing for the interests of entrepreneurs. That urge to destroy the Greek islands because the vast majority of hotel chains in Asia Minor coast opposite the Greek islands, is of German interests. They want to break tourism in the Greek Islands to serve their interests. Unfortunately there are Greeks from the club of those who believe in Germany serving from Greece German interests. Among those Mr. Theodorakis ".
But the interests of Germany has not only captured the theme of tourism, but continue for OTE.
After further sale of shares and voting rights of the Greek government, the July 11, 2011, the share of Deutsche Telekom in OTE is 40%. With the German obsession privatizations including the remaining 10% owned by the Greek government, everything suggests that want complete control and OTE
Meanwhile on Tuesday morning Defence Minister stressed the two conditions without which no solution is discussed. These are that "There will be no disarmament of the country, impoverishment of the armed forces, and will be fully respected on the special VAT scheme for the islands."
He added that "I do not accept any ultimatum. Without these two conditions are not discussing any solution. "
(Photo archive eurokinissi)
The main reason for the demand to equalize VAT is to bring it in line with the standards. As it is, the low VAT on the islands is a way to avoid taxes.
Why should the hotel industry get special tax treatment?
Not to mention, the argument doesn't make sense. After all, TUI has plenty of hotels in Greece. And Turkey isn't in the EU. Are people who want to holiday in Greece really going to travel to a different country just because Greek hotels pass along a standard tax?
No way. People who want to holiday in Greece are coming to Greece.
Why? It's not Greek companies that defaulted, it's the Greek state. The only reason that foreign companies would want payments in USD or EUR is if they're worried about the potential currency stability of the drachma.
Given hyperinflation, the stability is a big issue. Multi-nationals are likely to demand payment in EUR or USD and simply ignore the new drachma.
This is one of the most stupid statements in this thread. Of course he'd have to leave in that situation. He was voted in to be lead an anti-austerity government. If people vote yes, then there is no way forward other than austerity given the terms the government has set. The entire reason d'etre of his administration no longer exists; people have rejected the central tenet of his platform. That's like, democracy 101.
He was elected to lead the government. Sometimes being a leader means making the hard decisions and doing what is best for the country, even if that is not what you personally want to do.
A leader who throws up his hands and says "I quit" when the people don't agree with him isn't a leader. That's the definition of a coward.
1) Big enterprises (like TUI) can afford a VAT increase. It's the smaller ones that won't be sustainable anymore.
2) Turkey has less VAT and a cheaper currency.
VAT is paid by the consumer. Not the company. It is a pass along.
Turkey is a different county with its own tax rates and a different currency. That's like saying the US has no VAT, so VAT should be abolished across all of Europe.
Different countries have different monetary policies.
So a "No" in the referendum and a Grexit would probably be the only option. The immediate economic damage would be catastrophic and the EU would probably have to provide emergency aid in the first phase but a reset is needed, both economically, politicaly and diplomatically. That is providing they manage to stay in the EU at the very least. A Greek exit from both the EMU and EU would leave them completely alone and almost rogue, it could be cataclysmic. Just imagine the impact of losing free trade with EU countries, having to renegotiate treaties and attempting to pay for vital imports with a massively weakened Drachma while the loss of freedom of movement risks devastating the tourism industry... it boggles the mind.
If Greece drops the Euro it's difficult to see how it will stay in the EU as it likely wouldn't be able to meet its EU funding obligations.
Well they can afford to be more flexible when they are adjusting their prices and also are in the neat position where they make money regardless of whether people decide to go for cheaper vacations in Turkey.
But of course everything is conspiracy theory nonsense.
Multinational companies don't work that way. They still have to pay for property, upkeep, staff, etc. in all locations. Just because location A is booked doesn't mean location B is making a profit.
It's not as simple as "they make money regardless."
I understand why Greece wants a completely new 3rd program, but why now? Especially with the referendum looming. Feels like it's months too late for this.
Grasping at straws. Randomly throwing darts at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Realizing that months of wasting time and refusing to put forth solid proposals didn't get them an advantage and now they're panicking.
The were more people at the last festival I worked than live in Greenland, fact.
(About 60k tickets sold)
I'm not sure Greece and Greenland are that comparable.
Eh, relatively speaking Greece is still pretty small. Not as small as Greenland in terms of population, but two of the larger cities in the US have more people than the entirety of Greece.
Hahaha @ Merkel now saying no new proposal until after the referendum.
Until now it was "the door is still open!", Tsipras comes back and it's "No! It's closed!".
How more obvious can they be.
A few pages ago you were demanding that Germany respect democracy and give the people a chance to speak.
Now you want Germany to ignore the Greek people and make a new agreement before the referendum happens.
Which is it?
Subsidies make farmers counterproductive. For example, they prefer to farm cotton (which requires tons of water and the profits are not that high) just to get the subsidies.
Mind, the market situation has also made it so farmers can only ensure their viability by going in that direction.
Most CAP subsidies are based on land size of the farms. Still, without the subsidies, a good number of farmers would go out of business. Greek farmers benefit a great deal from CAP.
