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[J2 Cool]

No, but it wasn't an issue until Revenge of the Sith implied that it was a skill that would take a great amount of time to master. When it was just the OT, it was no big deal. Force users disappeared upon death and could come back as Force ghosts. It just came with the territory.

Come to think of it, did we ever get an explanation why Qui-Gon's body didn't disappear when he died, or hell, all Jedi except for Obi-Wan and Yoda? If this is related to the Force ghost skill, why wouldn't Qui-Gon's body disappear?

Bah, regardless of whether you enjoyed the prequels or not, you have to admit they've introduced an absolute shitload of inconsistencies with the way some OT events unfold or even arrive to being.

Agree with all of this. I think Qui-gon didn't dissapear, because he needed to tell Obi-wan Anakin was the chosen one... seriously though, I mean in Lucas' mind. The jedi have control over a lot of things, I think he decided they could choose the way they died, as Obi-wan looked confidently like he'd make a surreal impact on Luke when he did it. It's certainly an inconsistency but I suspect that's what Lucas had in mind.

Anakin was the chosen one..his gift was the ability to become immortal. Qui-Gon's gift for finding the chosen one was the ability to become immortal, in which he teaches yoda and obi-wan.

Uh, I dunno about this one. A gift given to him by the force? Immortality? I doubt it. That's more a power, which the jedi to not seek. It's as Qui-gon said in his dialogue with Yoda. Release of one's "self" allows you to become one with the force. In a way, Qui-gon became a ghost through being completely one with the force, the perfect jedi. Perfect as far as his ability allowed anyway. That's my assumption anyway. Yoda and Obi-wan became apprentices after allowing themselves to see what a master Qui-gon truly was, Yoda especially. They followed in his foot then and reached the level Qui-gon had when they're lives were complete. Anakin meanwhile, I'm not quite sure of how he became a ghost. I guess he became a perfect balance with the force, with no personal hindrances.

 

[Spectral Glider]

There is so much bullshit in this thread, it's worse than a fucked up prequel script.

III is decent, but it still doesn't surpass any of the originals....and yes that includes Jedi. The original beginning of Jedi (not the fucked up SE one) is still better than any of the beginnings of the new trilogy. The Amidala character and Jake LLoyd combine to form a creation of acting that sucks so bad that it rivals some of the worst porn movies. No way in hell, A New Hope is worse. Hamill's whining isn't that bad, and really, that's the point of his character anyway. I always liked the Luke progression through the original three, that by the time he appears in the beginning of Jedi, he has the calmness and coolness he should have. Even the way he interacts with Yoda is different from Empire, as it should be. And of course Alec Guiness and Ford put in fine performances. Fischer's acting in Jedi is kinda lame though.....and Ford's problem in Jedi was more because they really didn't have anything for his character to do. So perhaps he was phoning it in.....he still gets the "I dunno, fly casual" line in there though....which is still better than any one liner of the new three.

And Ewoks are greater than Jar Jar simply because I don't have to fucking listen to them speak English mixed with some retarded form of Jamaican. Yeah, the Ewoks overtaking the troops comes off as lame....still isn't as lame a 9 year old and fucking dope alien accidently winning battles. At least the friggen teddy bears executed an actual plan.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

He certainly could have learned it from the Emperor in the twenty years not chronicled on film. The ability to become a ghost is never specified to be a power of the Light Side, and even if it is, Palpatine claims to be a master of all sides of the Force. Maybe he is.

Anyway, this is not an issue with the SEs only. Old Anakin appeared as a ghost in the original version of RotJ as well.

We've talked about this. The Sith can't become Ghosts because it takes a selfless act to do so, something the Sith cannot do. It wasn't spelled out in the movies, but in the script, in the scene where Qui Gon speaks to Yoda, it's made clear.

 

[shantyman]

Also, Qui Gonn likely does not disappear because he is not a force ghost. He is only a force "voice."

 

[Dan]

Also, Qui Gonn likely does not disappear because he is not a force ghost. He is only a force "voice."

Is this actually stated somewhere? I mean, from the film's perspective, we don't know that he could only return as a voice. Obi-Wan could only return as a ghost during ANH but that later changed. We don't know that Qui-Gon didn't visit Yoda as a ghost. It's certainly not in the films, and that's my ultimate complaint. It was all fine when this stuff was unexplained yet consistent, but now it's unexplained and unexplained, and that's very annoying.

Revenge of the Sith was fun, but the more and more I think about it, the more I hate it for opening up all kinds of stupid inconsistencies and problems with character motivations.

 

[ManaByte]

Is this actually stated somewhere? I mean, from the film's perspective, we don't know that he could only return as a voice. Obi-Wan could only return as a ghost during ANH but that later changed. We don't know that Qui-Gon didn't visit Yoda as a ghost. It's certainly not in the films, and that's my ultimate complaint. It was all fine when this stuff was unexplained yet consistent, but now it's unexplained and unexplained, and that's very annoying.

Revenge of the Sith was fun, but the more and more I think about it, the more I hate it for opening up all kinds of stupid inconsistencies and problems with character motivations.

The screenplay is canon, and Qui-Gon was only a voice.

 

[J2 Cool]

It's said Qui-gon did appear as a ghost. He first appeared as a voice in AOTC, like Obi-wan right after he died had. Then the new revelation of ROTS's missing scene was that he was supposed to be a ghost. At least that's what I thought

 

[ManaByte]

It's said Qui-gon did appear as a ghost. He first appeared as a voice in AOTC, like Obi-wan right after he died had. Then the new revelation of ROTS's missing scene was that he was supposed to be a ghost. At least that's what I thought

He was only a voice in the screenplay.

 

[Dan]

So let me get this straight.

Qui-Gon: doesn't disappear, returns a decade later as a voice
Obi-Wan: disappears, returns immediately as a voice, later as a full ghost
Yoda: disappears, returns as ghost within days
Anakin/Vader: doesn't disappear, returns as ghost within hours in younger form

This seems completely arbitrary based upon the evidence presented in the films.

Another thing. Anakin turns into Darth Vader when he gives himself over to the dark side completely right (alongside the formal coronation)? So, at the end of ROTJ, shouldn't he return to Anakin Skywalker, considering how loving and caring he becomes? Or does Lucas want me to believe that wrinkled old man was still Vader, a name linked solely to his dedication to the Sith arts?

Bah, I don't like this at all. He promised these things would be clarified in ROTS and all he did was open up more inconsistencies.

 

[temp]

Please tell me this is stupid speculation and not a real explanation from somewhere. That's dumb as fuck. What, the Force spoke to Qui-Gon and gave him a new skill for discovering 'the Chosen One'? Bah.

Quest Complete!

200 Gil received!
3000 Experience gained!
New Force Ability unlocked!

 

[Warm Machine]

Jedi is the worst of the bunch because the storyline is extremly simplistic and not much happens in the movie in comparison to the others. It has also dated the worst out of all of them. Ewoks are not the problem. In the first 10 minutes of A New Hope more stuff has happened than the first 30 minutes of Jedi.

Anakin was likely able to learn the force ghost thing or study it after seeing ObiWan dissapear into thin air after being cut with Vaders light saber. I don't think that ability went unnoticed by Vader who had probably never seen someting like that before.

 

[ronito]

Enough said.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Obi-Wan: disappears, returns immediately as a voice, later as a full ghost

If I'm Luke flying down the Death Star trench and all of a sudden not just a voice but a full-on Obi-Wan apparition is floating around, I'm crashing. :lol

 

[Mashing]

I think it's simply a matter of Vader learned the ability over time. He was afterall, more powerful than the Emperor (by Palpatines own account). I would have preferred this was explained somehow though intead of leaving it up to idle speculation. I'd of also preferred if Qui-Gon was at the table with Yoda and Obi-Wan on the ship at the end.

 

[J2 Cool]

But it can't be learned by the dark side. It's a selfless act and a plot hole. The only one that works for me is how I explained it earlier. It's not as much a trick as it is a reward of being one with the force, without self. Something fundamentally a sith can't do.

 

[Warm Machine]

But it can't be learned by the dark side. It's a selfless act and a plot hole. The only one that works for me is how I explained it earlier. It's not as much a trick as it is a reward of being one with the force, without self. Something fundamentally a sith can't do.

The selfless act was whipping the Emperor into the energy pit to save Luke while killing himself in the process.

 

[AB 101]

I was so mad at the light saber color change that I threw my DVD controller thru the screen of my brand new Samsung DLP.

I then discovered its not worth getting wound up over such things.

 

[FortNinety]

Jedi the worst of the 6? Hardly. Yeah, there's weak moments, but there's more good in it than Episode 3, and especially 1 and 2.

 

[Raistlin]

The problem with Anakin in the whole Force ghost reunion thing is that none of the prequels make that possible without grasping for straws. Anakin was never taught the trick that Obi-Wan and Yoda spent years learning apparently, and the all of a sudden, he's a Force ghost. Amazing!

Couldn't Sidius have taught/helped him? Sidius learned everything from Plaguius before killing him, and seemed confident more could be learned when teamed with the chosen one. The jump from living forever and being able to create life to being a force ghost doesn't seem all that large.

That, or maybe its simply because Anakin isn't of natural birth. He was created by the force, so maybe he's naturally eternal?

Or maybe Lucas is a hack?

 

[Willco]

Or maybe Lucas is a hack?

 

[MetalAlien]

I think George should be able to do anything he wants to the old movies... as long as he ALSO releases them in their original state.. God forgive me for giving him another reason to release the set.

 

[btrboyev]

sidious didn't know shit, he lied about being able to cheat death.

oh and wilco how about just staying the fuck out of this thread(and any star wars thread) from now on?

 

[mattx5]

Man, there's so much bullshit in this thread it's not funny. All you have to know to understand the Force Ghost theory is to read some fucking texts on Eastern religions.

The entire Force Ghost concept is not an ability or power. Rather, it's the letting go of self, unification with the living Force, achieving the greatest love possible. Qui Gon was able to unite himself after death because he was so attuned to the true nature of the Force in his life. Why did it take him awhile? How do we know if it took him awhile? Just because he didn't come back instantly, doesn't mean that he didn't achieve 'liberation' instantly. The fact that his corpse remained might be due to the fact that he didn't 'willingly' die.

In their years in isolation, Obi Wan and Yoda came to know the 'true' nature of the Force, not just the dogma.

Anakin is able to become a Force Ghost for the simple fact that he redeemed himself. He let go of his hatred, his bitterness, his aspirations to rule the galaxy with his son and his guilt. In that one moment he recognized love and was finally able to pull himself free from the vice which had been ensnaring him all those years.

 

[Willco]

oh and wilco how about just staying the fuck out of this thread(and any star wars thread) from now on?

HOW ABOUT

 

[btrboyev]

come on man..your trolling is just getting tiresome..we get it. Time to move on.

 

[Willco]

come on man..your trolling is just getting tiresome..we get it. Time to move on.

 

[Matrix]

come on man..your trolling is just getting tiresome..we get it. Time to move on.

Dont bitch about it,if he annoys you so much....just troll spider-man 3 threads when it comes out

 

[Willco]

Dont bitch about it,if he annoys you so much....just troll spider-man 3 threads when it comes out

:lol

Unlike rabid Star Wars fans, I don't get worked up with Spidey. Lots of people hate Spidey, but that's their loss! More Superbit DVD copies for me then!

 

[btrboyev]

I don't get worked up about his hate either. I know he secrectly like epIII, its the only explanation I can give for all of his comments about it. Its ok wilco, I hear batman forever is a winner.

 

[Matrix]

I don't get worked up about his hate either. I know he secrectly like epIII, its the only explanation I can give for all of his comments about it. Its ok wilco, I hear batman forever is a winner.

If that were the case then everyone here who is hating on the movie secretly likes it and I find that hard to believe.

Also Batman Begins looks like it will kick all sorts of ass,I hope that wasnt a jab at that movie :\

 

[Willco]

I don't get worked up about his hate either.

Sure, Mr. I Don't Get Worked Up But Post Several Times To Get Willco To Stop Posting. You're not fooling anyone!

I know he secrectly like epIII, its the only explanation I can give for all of his comments about it.

Or... I dislike Episode III and discussing its contents in the official thread where such discussion belongs! That sounds too reasonable to be true!

Its ok wilco, I hear batman forever is a winner.

Now you've just lost me.

... Don't worry. You're not the worst of the rabid Star Wars fans, that honor goes to shantyman and borghe. It's too bad we don't have more reasonable ones like Kung Fu Jedi, though. The rest of the lot are like, "BLEED FOR LUCAS! PREQUELS FOR LIFE!"

 

[btrboyev]

it was a knock at batman cause quite frankly batman sucks ass. the comics are cool but movies suck. Also I fucked up and wrote batman forever when i meant batman begins.

If that were the case then everyone here who is hating on the movie secretly likes it and I find that hard to believe.

I don't know...its funny how almost all of them say its the worst one yet, which is insane.


anyways I will leave it at that.

 

[Willco]

it was a knock at batman cause quite frankly batman sucks ass. the comics are cool but movies suck. Also I fucked up and wrote batman forever when i meant batman begins.

Yeah, I agree. You're a fuck up alright.

I don't know...its funny how almost all of them say its the worst one yet, which is insane.

It's a mad, mad world. At any rate, I move to keep Episode III discussion in the official thread unless it relates to the topic on hand or the PT -> OT sideshow we have going on here.

anyways I will leave it at that.

Thank God!

... Man, that green lightsaber really pisses me off, how 'bout you?

 

[Matrix]

Luke already a Jedi Knight in ANH,who woulda thunk it.

 

[btrboyev]

I haven't watched a new hope since I got the dvd last sept. So no, it doesn't piss me off anyways, from one fuck up to another.

 

[J2 Cool]

The selfless act was whipping the Emperor into the energy pit to save Luke while killing himself in the process.

I know, that's what I believed caused it. I'm saying at that point he no longer was a sith. They say he studied it as a sith, which is futile and not possible. It's not a trick you can study really. At least not as a sith.

Man, there's so much bullshit in this thread it's not funny. All you have to know to understand the Force Ghost theory is to read some fucking texts on Eastern religions.

The entire Force Ghost concept is not an ability or power. Rather, it's the letting go of self, unification with the living Force, achieving the greatest love possible. Qui Gon was able to unite himself after death because he was so attuned to the true nature of the Force in his life. Why did it take him awhile? How do we know if it took him awhile? Just because he didn't come back instantly, doesn't mean that he didn't achieve 'liberation' instantly. The fact that his corpse remained might be due to the fact that he didn't 'willingly' die.

In their years in isolation, Obi Wan and Yoda came to know the 'true' nature of the Force, not just the dogma.

Anakin is able to become a Force Ghost for the simple fact that he redeemed himself. He let go of his hatred, his bitterness, his aspirations to rule the galaxy with his son and his guilt. In that one moment he recognized love and was finally able to pull himself free from the vice which had been ensnaring him all those years.

Bam! Best post in this thread so far. At least the most spot on. Tried saying this but couldn't get it out. Well done.

 

[Willco]

I just realized another inconsistency. Obi-Wan acts like he doesn't know Luke has a twin sister, yet he was there during the birth of both at the end of Episode III.

There's that famous exchange in ESB:

Obi-Wan: "That boy was our last hope."
Yoda: "No. There is another."

Oh well. Can't win 'em all.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Luke already a Jedi Knight in ANH,who woulda thunk it.

THANK YOU for taking a small brief moment of your life to post that. Seems like the rest of the bots can only argue that star trek is better. :lol

 

[Dan]

I know, that's what I believed caused it. I'm saying at that point he no longer was a sith. They say he studied it as a sith, which is futile and not possible. It's not a trick you can study really. At least not as a sith.

If that were the case I would think it'd be old Anakin that showed up as a Force ghost at the end of ROTJ.

See, Lucas screwed this up enough so that every time you justify one of his explanations, you mess up another.

 

[Matrix]

I just realized another inconsistency. Obi-Wan acts like he doesn't know Luke has a twin sister, yet he was there during the birth of both at the end of Episode III.

There's that famous exchange in ESB:

Obi-Wan: "That boy was our last hope."
Yoda: "No. There is another."

Oh well. Can't win 'em all.

Obi doesnt know much about Leia other than the fact they're twins and it's not like Yoda or Obi trained her.I mean at that point with Leia's age and the fact they had no interaction with her since birth,well I can see why Obi would think Luke is their only hope.

Yoda wasnt going to come out and say "douche you are Obi,you remember little old Leia,still we have her to train if Luke fucks up" ....but he should have

Just let me know if I'm crasping for straws here again :lol

 

[Willco]

I guess it's up for interpretation. I dunno.

 

[Dan]

I'm not sure we've seen anything to indicate that Obi-Wan's a sexist idiot who would never think of the daughter of Anakin Skywalker having any power...

Obi-Wan should have never been there for the birthing, period. It would have been better if Yoda had masterminded the separation of the children and left Bail Organa and Obi-Wan out of the loop. The fewer who knew of the twins the better.

 

[Ristamar]

Obi doesnt know much about Leia other than the fact they're twins and it's not like Yoda or Obi trained her.I mean at that point with Leia's age and the fact they had no interaction with her since birth,well I can see why Obi would think Luke is their only hope.

Yoda wasnt going to come out and say "douche you are Obi,you remember little old Leia,still we have her to train if Luke fucks up" ....but he should have

Yeah, I thought this was pretty obvious even before the prequels.

 

[Matrix]

I'm not sure we've seen anything to indicate that Obi-Wan's a sexist idiot who would never think of the daughter of Anakin Skywalker having any power...

Obi force ghost watching from afar " whoa look at that pyscho bitch ordering everyone around, she could easily fall to the dark side,so much anger in her like her father....Luke is our last hope

Seriously at that point in the saga and with everything going down,Yoda training Luke and Obi watching over him..they should have rang up Qui-Gon to handle her.

 

[Willco]

Yeah, I thought this was pretty obvious even before the prequels.

Uh, that was never obvious before the prequels. Before the prequels I thought Obi-Wan didn't know until Yoda told him after that exchange of dialogue in ESB. It's open for interpretation, but it's never obvious. That Obi-Wan makes no mention of Luke's sister until after the fact (despite seeing a holographic image of her and everything just one movie before) and the dialogue between him and Yoda just further my belief that Obi-Wan didn't know. I mean, it's not like he didn't hear of Leia until after his demise as they were on a mission to save her in A New Hope.

The real reason was that we didn't know Leia was Luke's sister, and Obi-Wan didn't as well, was because Lucas had other plans for Episodes VII-IX. Okay. Understood. But the prequels just make something that was vague and open for interpretation somewhat of an inconsistency.

 

[mrklaw]

Why show the construction on the death star at the end of ep III? Just to tie up more loose ends? We don't need to be spoon fed everything George.

And if they are building it as soon as Sidious takes over, how come it takes 20 years to become operational?

And if it takes 20 years to build one, how come the second one is ready 20 minutes later in ROTJ (OK, I'll give them a few months)

 

[Matrix]

Maybe the twin suns just fucked with his head,something clearly fried a few Midichlorians in his head.

 

[Willco]

And if it takes 20 years to build one, how come the second one is ready 20 minutes later in ROTJ (OK, I'll give them a few months)

This is another classic inconsistency. I can only assume Clerks was right when they said they were using independent contractors on the second one.

 

[Ristamar]

Uh, that was never obvious before the prequels. Before the prequels I thought Obi-Wan didn't know until Yoda told him after that exchange of dialogue in ESB. It's open for interpretation, but it's never obvious. That Obi-Wan makes no mention of Luke's sister until after the fact (despite seeing a holographic image of her and everything just one movie before) and the dialogue between him and Yoda just further my belief that Obi-Wan didn't know. I mean, it's not like he didn't hear of Leia until after his demise as they were on a mission to save her in A New Hope.

The real reason was that we didn't know Leia was Luke's sister, and Obi-Wan didn't as well, was because Lucas had other plans for Episodes VII-IX. Okay. Understood. But the prequels just make something that was vague and open for interpretation somewhat of an inconsistency.

Obi-Wan decided it was in Luke's best interest to not tell Luke that Vader was his father, so I assumed he'd have no reason to mention Leia was his sister, either. Yoda and Obi-Wan both seemed rather conent to keep Luke in the dark in regard to his family and friends, keeping his focus on training and his inevitable confrontation with Vader.

Most people I know never thought Obi-Wan was unaware of Leia's relation to Luke. So, whatever. But, like you said, interpretation...

 

[Ristamar]

Why show the construction on the death star at the end of ep III? Just to tie up more loose ends? We don't need to be spoon fed everything George.

And if they are building it as soon as Sidious takes over, how come it takes 20 years to become operational?

And if it takes 20 years to build one, how come the second one is ready 20 minutes later in ROTJ (OK, I'll give them a few months)

Why did it take 20 years to dissolve the Senate? Maybe the construction of the Death Star got tied up in some bureaucratic tape?