Support NeoGAF

[Aztechnology]

It's possible that they used to be authorized sellers, but aren't anymore. Partnerships end, after all.

Right, if that's the case then they need to make that known. Although it may be too late. But I think it's far too early to be making a call about them based off what we know. Time to wait and see. I imagine this will be picked up by a few of the bigger gaming outlets.

 

[LewieP]

An example of an authorized key seller would be Amazon. There are three ways unauthorized key sellers get their keys so cheap.

Amazon do allow third party traders to sell keys, and I don't know what their policies for checking the supply chains in these cases are, nor how strictly these policies are enforced.

 

[wrowa]

GMG-PlayfireCS1h1
I assume this might be a rhetorical question, but yes. The publishers do get paid for every single game that goes through us. We work through authorised distributors for every game.

The problem is that we are unwilling to share all of our deals. (Or go through all the issue of redacting the confidential parts of over 300 different contracts.)

https://m.reddit.com/r/GameDealsMeta/comments/3t0p9m/rgamedeals_and_greenmangaming/

Emails from support reps does not mean gmg does not have a deal in place with all the publishers they work with. One of the emails references their approved vendor list actually sort of proves that GameDeals is talking to reps at the publishers who don't necessarily know a whole lot.

At this point you basically just have gmg saying they are authorized, and GameDeals saying they aren't. Until ubi/wb/acti put out an official presser that gmg is not authorized, I'm not going to just take the word of support reps. Support reps don't know jack shit all the time.

GMG doesn't really deny the accusations, though. At least not in your quote.

"We work through authorised distributors" doesn't mean that they themselves are authorized as well. To the contrary, it sounds like a convenient smokescreen to disguise that they, in fact, aren't authorized but only the distributors they get their keys from.

What kind of distributors are we talking about here? Who knows. Are those distributors actually authorized? Who knows.

 

[akileese]

Yup, I pressed GMG about this when my copy of Black Ops 3 from them didn't include a Nuketown code.

I'm done with them.

That's weird because mine was $40 from GMG and came with all of the preorder DLC.

 

[nynt9]

Amazon do allow third party traders to sell keys, and I don't know what their policies for checking the supply chains in these cases are, nor how strictly these policies are enforced.

Yes, but I'm talking about official "sold through amazon" keys.

 

[ZOONAMI]

They're still avoiding direct questions about their practices. They've been caught lying several times before so saying "trust us, we're legit" isn't really helping their cause.

OK, but GameDeals is basically saying don't trust them because we emailed publisher customer support and these are the responses?

That's no better than gmg saying, we're authorized, the contracts are protected by nda.

Until the publishers come out with a presser and say gmg is not authorized, there's nothing that proves that they aren't.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

Not a pc user, but I feel like I have seen deals and recommendations for the site all over GAF.

Did people think they were offering significantly lower prices/better deals out of the goodness of their hearts? Was there not any suspicion before now or did most just ignore the signs?

 

[GitarooMan]

You can help by not spreading misinformation, cdkeys.com ARE legit, they aren't involved in anything illegal and i've heard nothing but good things about them, which I and many gaffers can attest to.

Aren't the deals banned from GAF though? Why is that if they are legit?

 

[nynt9]

OK, but GameDeals is basically saying don't trust them because we emailed publisher customer support and these are the responses?

That's no better than gmg saying, we're authorized, the contracts are protected by nda.

Until the publishers come out with a presser and say gmg is not authorized, there's nothing that proves that they aren't.

We already have the issue with The Witcher 3 where they claimed to be selling authorized keys but were caught in a lie by CDPR.

In the case of Activison, their contact wasn't support but their privacy team, which is a legal department.

Not a pc user, but I feel like I have seen deals and recommendations for the site all over GAF.

Did people think they were offering significantly lower prices/better deals out of the goodness of their hearts? Was there not any suspicion before now or did most just ignore the signs?

People took their claims of being authorized at face value and thought they were somehow taking a loss on every sale to grow their business, despite it appearing too good to be true.

 

[ScatheZombie]

GMG-PlayfireCS1h1
I assume this might be a rhetorical question, but yes. The publishers do get paid for every single game that goes through us. We work through authorised distributors for every game.

The problem is that we are unwilling to share all of our deals. (Or go through all the issue of redacting the confidential parts of over 300 different contracts.)

https://m.reddit.com/r/GameDealsMeta/comments/3t0p9m/rgamedeals_and_greenmangaming/

Emails from support reps does not mean gmg does not have a deal in place with all the publishers they work with. One of the emails references their approved vendor list actually sort of proves that GameDeals is talking to reps at the publishers who don't necessarily know a whole lot.

At this point you basically just have gmg saying they are authorized, and GameDeals saying they aren't. Until ubi/wb/acti put out an official presser that gmg is not authorized, I'm not going to just take the word of support reps. Support reps don't know jack shit all the time.

From GMG About Page:

"We are incredibly proud to be a business trading and working officially with the world’s greatest publishers and developers. We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence."

Their response is not the same as what they claim on their own website. Being an official partner with a direct contract with publishers is not the same as being supplied by authorized distributors. For example, they can buy from an 'authorized distributor' in Russia at a substantially lower price point due to regional economics and resell it globally at a decent profit. But that action isn't necessarily 'approved' by the publisher.

 

[EndersAres]

I just requested a refund on my assassins creed and rainbow six orders. Hopefully they go through today. I'm disappointed in them and bothered that they list ubisoft as a partner.

 

[c0Zm1c]

Here's what I don't get. They've had their partnered page up for a long time. If they weren't I can't imagine those publishers legal teams wouldn't be down their throats about it months ago. Is GMG being screwed over here?

Adding to that, I'm wondering where WB's request that GMG remove Arkham Knight from sale sits with all this. If they're not partners then why did WB contact them about it? This is assuming GMG was not lying about any correspondence it had with WB over the matter.

 

[fertygo]

That's weird because mine was $40 from GMG and came with all of the preorder DLC.

Yeah its their issue with BLOPS3 their official twitter even saying their buyer not getting Nuketown.

The fact if some buyer getting DLC, some don't. and some got invalid keys is goddamn shady.

 

[ZOONAMI]

We already have the issue with The Witcher 3 where they claimed to be selling authorized keys but were caught in a lie by CDPR.

In the case of Activison, their contact wasn't support but their privacy team, which is a legal department.

Right, so cdpr publicly said gmg was not authorized to sell witcher 3, that situation is not yet the same thing as this situation until the publishers say otherwise.

 

[jacobeid]

That's weird because mine was $40 from GMG and came with all of the preorder DLC.

Which is EXACTLY why I pressed them about their source.

No response. Shocking. I'm expecting to have that key revoked without any ability to ask GMG for a refund.

 

[LewieP]

Yes, but I'm talking about official "sold through amazon" keys.

Aye, I was just chiming in with additional information/nuance.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Which is EXACTLY why I pressed them about their source.

No response. Shocking. I'm expecting to have that key revoked without any ability to ask GMG for a refund.

If you purchased the key from them, why would you think you don't have the ability to ask for a refund?

 

[KingV]

I buy keys from unauthorized resellers all of the time, but I definitely don't like being lied to. GMG is playing the same where they're pretending they are an authorized reseller.

Doubly so when GMG tends to have slightly higher prices are than other resellers.

 

[nynt9]

Right, so cdpr publicly said gmg was not authorized to sell witcher 3, that situation is not yet the same thing as this situation until the publishers say otherwise.

Customer support confirmation plus so many stories adding up (witcher 3, battlefront, arkham knight, blops 3) make it look pretty shady and the onus is on GMG to clear their name. In the mean time we should contact journalists like Schreier so that they can do some digging at an official capacity and see what's really up. I tweeted him but more people should as well.

 

[Aztechnology]

Aren't the deals banned from GAF though? Why is that if they are legit?

Because it's a grey market. The keys are bought from third party sellers. Those keys often are bought in regions that have discounted prices.

Edit: Grey not Great, damn phone.

 

[OraleeWey]

Is this shady practice enough to get a refund through PayPal? I bought BLOPS 3 from them.

 

[Lady Siara]

Well, even if every key they sell ends up being unofficially supplied, I don't see how this changes much. They have great customer support and offer refunds. I thought most of the concern centered around buying from gray markets was the fear of getting your key revoked? If that were to happen from a key supplied by GMG, I have no doubt that they would either supply you a new key or refund you entirely vs most other gray market sellers leaving you up a creek.

It's basically a morally ambiguous Steam alternative, right?

I originally accidentally posted this in the Battlefront thread instead. Much more relevant here.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

You can help by not spreading misinformation, cdkeys.com ARE legit, they aren't involved in anything illegal and i've heard nothing but good things about them, which I and many gaffers can attest to.

I've heard many reports of revoked keys from cd keys

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

People took their claims of being authorized at face value and thought they were somehow taking a loss on every sale to grow their business, despite it appearing too good to be true.

Thanks for the response. Shady business practices are definitely one way to undercut the competition.

 

[nynt9]

Is this shady practice enough to get a refund through PayPal? I bought BLOPS 3 from them.

It's kind of a last resort option that might burn bridges, especially if you keep the key. It's best to exhaust other options first.

Well, even if every key they sell ends up being unofficially supplied, I don't see how this changes much. They have great customer support and offer refunds. I thought most of the concern centered around buying from gray markets was the fear of getting your key revoked? If that were to happen from a key supplied by GMG, I have no doubt that they would either supply you a new key or refund you entirely vs most other gray market sellers leaving you up a creek.

It's basically a morally ambiguous Steam alternative, right?

I originally accidentally posted this in the Battlefront thread instead. Much more relevant here.

There have been several instances where they have refused refunds. The consumer-facing concern of buying from gray markets is as you said, but there's also a question of where the key is coming from and whether you're participating in a legally questionable transaction. Also, G2A, one of the most obviously gray market sellers, also offer you a new key if you pay for their $1 or so protection fee so it's not that different. I think some other ones do it as well.

 

[slash3584]

Shit.

I bought JC 3 for them like a week ago.

Hope they actually are an Square Enix official reseller.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

Going back to buying retail copies of games is looking more and more attractive. GMG is not even shady levels of cheap, as retail copies of games in Finland (highest taxed Euro currency country?) can still be obtained for cheaper than what GMG is offering games for.

 

[LewieP]

Aren't the deals banned from GAF though? Why is that if they are legit?

My understanding of the rule is that there is ostensibly a blanket ban on all unauthorised retailers to protect users from being directed towards unauthorised retailers who do not have a good track record for customer service, and who are set up in such a way as for it to be impossible to be sure whether they are engaged in illicit or illegal activity. This is not all unauthorised retailers, and individual retailers with a decent record are caught up in this rule.

I think the rule is not ideal, and a little heavy handed, but I can also see why it exists. Approving individual retailers on a case by case basis would probably be the idea solution, but it would also not be particularly practical, maintaining such a policy would be time consuming and it would be extremely difficult to not have any false positives/negatives.

The rule is a hammer when a scalpel would be preferable, but I do understand that providing policy that offered both robust protection for users, and nuance to support posting those unauthorised retailers with a strong track record is probably outside the scope of a forum like this.

I'll be interested to see if linking to GMG is considered to be against this rule given the latest revelations.

 

[Grief.exe]

Maybe years of low GMG prices are pushing pubs to stop cooperating with GMG?

Whatever is going on....things are changing here.

Low prices from GMG have, historically, been them sacrificing their 30% cut of the sale.

Lower margin since they are a small company without overhead, for higher volume.

The problem now is they seem to be taking a higher margin buy purchasing keys from poor regions. Another possibility is they were seeing their business eroded by these gray market sales like G2A, so they had to stay competitive.

 

[OraleeWey]

It's kind of a last resort option that might burn bridges, especially if you keep the key. It's best to exhaust other options first.

Not sure what other options there are? Refund through them? This is their refund policy... Looks like I'm disqualified.

- The time of your request for refund/credit is no more than 7 days from time of purchase

- The game has not been activated or downloaded

- The game activation key (including any bonus or beta keys) have not been disclosed to you by email or webpage

- Physical games are for UK distribution only. Any attempt to purchase these outside the UK (using a proxy or VPN, etc) will result in a loss purchase and will not be refunded

- We are unable to process refunds 48 hours before a game is due to be released or preload begins

- We find your request reasonable due to special circumstances

- Paypal refunds CAN NOT be processed after 60 days from purchase

- Goods lost in post will be refunded within 30 days
- Bitcoin transactions can not be refunded or reversed. These transactions are final.

 

[Jimrpg]

Why are people here so quick to judge GMG?

Where have they actually said they are an authorised dealer of EA, Ubi, Acti etc.? They might have said it in the past, but it looks like they've taken EA and Ubi and Acti logos from their website. If that's the case, they are getting their keys from elsewhere.

If you buy a key from GMG and it doesn't work, as long as you can get a refund, then is there really problem here? As long as its not stolen either, which by all accounts GMG have been pretty legit since they started.

The way I see it, EA, Ubi and Acti were offering them a tiny percentage of the sales, EA, Ubi and Acti basically hold all the power here as they have their own webstores and online portals for gamers. At the same time, EA, Ubi and Acti also offer backdoor deals to smaller distributors and wholesale buyers to move even more units. From a business standpoint, GMG are taking the route with higher profits by buying from these wholesalers. It's like the most obvious option isn't it? If EA is offering you a wholesale price of $58 on Battlefront but the wholesaler can offer $45, its a no contest.

 

[jacobeid]

If you purchased the key from them, why would you think you don't have the ability to ask for a refund?

The key has already been redeemed coupled with the fact that the responses to my email inquiries were less than satisfying. I'm sure they'll give me the run around, especially if it's revoked by Activision after some time.

 

[Jawmuncher]

A rebel until the end.

 

[nynt9]

Why are people here so quick to judge GMG?

Where have they actually said they are an authorised dealer of EA, Ubi, Acti etc.? They might have said it in the past, but it looks like they've taken EA and Ubi and Acti logos from their website. If that's the case, they are getting their keys from elsewhere.

If you buy a key from GMG and it doesn't work, as long as you can get a refund, then is there really problem here? As long as its not stolen either, which by all accounts GMG have been pretty legit since they started.

The way I see it, EA, Ubi and Acti were offering them a tiny percentage of the sales, EA, Ubi and Acti basically hold all the power here as they have their own webstores and online portals for gamers. At the same time, EA, Ubi and Acti also offer backdoor deals to smaller distributors and wholesale buyers to move even more units. From a business standpoint, GMG are taking the route with higher profits by buying from these wholesalers. It's like the most obvious option isn't it? If EA is offering you a wholesale price of $58 on Battlefront but the wholesaler can offer $45, its a no contest.

http://www.greenmangaming.com/publishers-developers/

You can take a gray market approach to selling keys but it's completely not ok to act like you're selling legitimately from the source.

 

[Jimrpg]

http://www.greenmangaming.com/publishers-developers/

You can take a gray market approach to selling keys but it's completely not ok to act like you're selling legitimately from the source.

OK well see I saw this on the first page and assumed they took down the EA, Acti, Ubi logos

Yep its definitely not right, someone should email them and let them know.

 

[ZOONAMI]

http://www.greenmangaming.com/publishers-developers/

You can take a gray market approach to selling keys but it's completely not ok to act like you're selling legitimately from the source.

Interesting, seems they pulled down Activision.

Can anyone confirm if they had an acti logo up at the time of cod problems?

 

[KingV]

I've heard many reports of revoked keys from cd keys

I have never seen nor heard of any, and I have looked.

They are the key reseller I use most often.

One thing that makes me seriously doubt that they are usually usbg fraudulent keys is that they have many items that sell for higher than retail, probably because they can't source said items for cheap.

Everything bought with stolen credit cards is cheap, and there is no reason not discount everything in that case.

 

[Coreda]

Why are people here so quick to judge GMG?

Where have they actually said they are an authorised dealer of EA, Ubi, Acti etc.?

Their home page states they are official partners with WB, including their logo and then linking to a 'More' page listing Ubisoft, et al. Apart obviously from the impression they've established for years.

Another possibility is they were seeing their business eroded by these gray market sales like G2A, so they had to stay competitive.

It becomes a race to the bottom if that's the competition, when the site's reputation was their main value (seeing as price apparently wasn't).

 

[nynt9]

Interesting, seems they pulled down Activision.

Can anyone confirm if they had an acti logo up at the time of cod problems?

I can't say how reliable this is, but going back as far as September 5 using archive.org, the Activison logo isn't on their partners list.

 

[bigkrev]

OK well see I saw this on the first page and assumed they took down the EA, Acti, Ubi logos



Yep its definitely not right, someone should email them and let them know.

Yeah, EA, Acti and Ubi have dissapeared from their master list of publishers http://www.greenmangaming.com/publishers/#b

 

[Messofanego]

Ooh might have to email a few of their approved publishers to see if they have a response too.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I can't say how reliable this is, but going back as far as September 5 using archive.org, the Activison logo isn't on their partners list.

Hmm, so it seems to me they are accurately portraying who they have deals with.

If they weren't claiming to be an official partner of acti for cod bopsiii launch, I don't see what the problem is as long as customer support helped out people who didn't get a valid key.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Yeah, EA, Acti and Ubi have dissapeared from their master list of publishers http://www.greenmangaming.com/publishers/#b

Ubi is definitely on that list, and EAs logo is up.

 

[nynt9]

Hmm, so it seems to me they are accurately portraying who they have deals with.

Except you'd have to actively go digging for this information, and they bill themselves as an official key seller whereas apparently they haven't been for a while...

Their "about" page says:

We are incredibly proud to be a business trading and working officially with the world’s greatest publishers and developers. We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence.

So does this mean they need to be banned from GAF like G2A?

 

[Kama_1082]

To some, buying keys that might have been obtained with stolen credit cards or keys that exploit regional pricing and as a result hurt people in disadvantaged regions is morally wrong. I guess for some people it's more important to save $20 though.

people don't care how the beef was made.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

i bought battlefront from them. should i be worried?

 

[GitarooMan]

My understanding of the rule is that there is ostensibly a blanket ban on all unauthorised retailers to protect users from being directed towards unauthorised retailers who do not have a good track record for customer service, and who are set up in such a way as for it to be impossible to be sure whether they are engaged in illicit or illegal activity. This is not all unauthorised retailers, and individual retailers with a decent record are caught up in this rule.

[snip]

Thanks for the details, it will be interesting to see in the future if publishers get more vocal about this stuff or more aggressive about it.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Except you'd have to actively go digging for this information, and they bill themselves as an official key seller whereas apparently they haven't been for a while...

Their "about" page says:



So does this mean they need to be banned from GAF like G2A?

Yep that about page is definitely a problem then.

 

[Koh]

I defended them during the witcher issue. I can't defend this.

 

[sflufan]

i bought battlefront from them. should i be worried?

No, because GMG is considered to be an authorized EA retailer.