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Guardian: 'The FBI is Trumpland': anti-Clinton atmosphere spurred leaks, sources say

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J

- J - D -

Member
I wonder what the work environment is like there. No numbers are given but I must assume that there are at least pocket groups of agents that are staunchly against this bullshit. Im imagining inter-departmental tensions and shenanigans.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
I agree with the idea that because the FBI is law enforcement, many believe they would probably get more leeway under Trump.

That said, the FBI is a pretty big organization. I doubt it's widespread and many are just doing their jobs. The problem here is you really only need a few people to make leaks a common thing.

Sources who disputed the depth of Trump’s internal support agreed that the FBI is now in parlous political territory. Justice department officials – another current target of FBI dissatisfaction – have said the bureau disregarded longstanding rules against perceived or actual electoral interference when Comey wrote to Congress to say it was reviewing newly discovered emails relating to Clinton’s personal server.
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Sounds like a goddamn nightmare.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
I work for a different federal agency and not a single thing in that article shocked or surprised me as it's also "Trumpland" here for the most part.

Fortunately though most folks here are far too professional to engage in the type of behavior the FBI has in the last few months.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
MHWilliams said:
Do you have something you wish to contribute to the thread at hand?
Click to expand...

I've been contributing, with what I believe were reasonable points. I'm asking if there is a list of news sources that all can agree are 'credible'. Is Fox News 'credible'? I fully accept that we should throw out poor sources, but too often we have disputes about specific sources.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
shoplifter said:
I've been contributing, with what I believe were reasonable points. I'm asking if there is a list of news sources that all can agree are 'credible'. Is Fox News 'credible'? I fully accept that we should throw out poor sources, but too often we have disputes about specific sources.
Click to expand...

There is no GAF list of credible sources, but there are sites that have proven themselves to be incendiary and less than trustworthy. There are those in various threads who agree or disagree over certain websites' trustworthiness due to past reporting or personal leanings.

As an example, the current TYT thread, where many say that Cenk is trustworthy due to his ongoing animosity and actions during the primary. I can understand that. That said, the thread is still open, thus, not disapproved.

We will change a thread title if we feel it doesn't capture the correct scope of a situation. If we lock the thread, then you'll have you answer. Otherwise, posters are free to engage with it. Again, in that TYT thread, we struck down a whole lot of posts that tackled the source, not the topic.

George Washington said:
So yesterday it was reported that the FBI was in turmoil with inner quarrels and now they're all in favor of Trump?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/02/politics/james-comey-fbi-reputation/

Edit: If this is true, it means that there are pro-Hillary, anti-Hillary factions within the FBI fighting each other. The faction that is indirectly helping Trump by leaking information must be the anti-Hillary faction from New York.
Click to expand...

It's likely this is the case.
 
J

jmdajr

Member
S

StopMakingSense

Member
George Washington said:
Edit: If this is true, it means that there are pro-Hillary, anti-Hillary factions within the FBI fighting each other. The faction that is indirectly helping Trump by leaking information must be the anti-Hillary faction from New York.
Click to expand...

Yeah all signs have pointed to the NY Office being the source of the anti-Hillary leaks.
 
George Washington

George Washington

Member
jiji said:
It wouldn't be a stretch to say that both are probably true.
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I might have misunderstood the article and what that one source said. I inferred that Trumpland meant that they were all supporting Trump.

What I believe now is that different offices of the FBI are fighting eachother:

Some believe they are protecting Hillary

Some believe they are trying to sabotage Hillary

Either way, the FBI has no business in politics. Just do the investigation and reach a conclusion based on the facts, not political biases.
 
B

besada

Banned
The FBI have always been a deeply conservative organization, so it shouldn't be too much of a shock that there's strong Trump support there.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
StopMakingSense said:
Yeah all signs have pointed to the NY Office being the source of the anti-Hillary leaks.
Click to expand...

And this was the office reportedly doing the Clinton Foundation investigation, so it makes sense that if they found clear evidence that they would be staunchly against her election. Not that it necessarily justifies the leaks, but an internal struggle with DoJ would be a likely reason.

I think it's fair to say that the theory that there are two factions is pretty reasonable.
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
George Washington said:
So yesterday it was reported that the FBI was in turmoil with inner quarrels and now they're all in favor of Trump?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/02/politics/james-comey-fbi-reputation/

Edit: If this is true, it means that there are pro-Hillary, anti-Hillary factions within the FBI fighting each other. The faction that is indirectly helping Trump by leaking information must be the anti-Hillary faction from New York.
Click to expand...

That's logically false. Every single FBI agent from the director to the greenest rookie could be 110% Trump, and still have vastly different opinions on the correct way to handle a situation like a potential new lead in the Hillary Clinton Email investigation. Some 110% Trump supporters could've viewed sending the letter that Comey did as being against the core principles of their job to serve the nation in an unbiased manner to better all citizens and thus there could be inner quarrels between staunch Trump supporters.

Now I do think that there will be all sorts of opinions at the FBI including Hillary supporters but simply because there is supposed inner conflict does not equate to necessarily being Pro-Hillary factions being the opposing side to Comey's actions.

I still believe people exist that can put their moral obligations before their party affiliation
 
K

Kimawolf

Member
Time to give them lie detector tests early this year and anyone caught leaking needs to be fired on the spot.

Probably also time for Comey to retire/resign.
 
W

Wolfgunblood Garopa

Member
Maintenance said:
Get your tinfoil hats on.

I thought right-wing nutjobs used to be the ones saying "it's a conspiracy!"
Click to expand...

I know the right has worked hard to de-legitimize the media, but you do understand there is an actual profession that people go to school for and put their life's work into called journalism? Those journalists investigate and report. In this case, it's Spencer Ackerman. From his bio at The Guardian:

Spencer Ackerman is national security editor for Guardian US. Ackerman was part of the Guardian team that won the 2014 Pulitzer prize for public service journalism.
Click to expand...

The Guardian has a good reputation. From their bio:

Covering American and international news for an online, global audience.

Our team of US-based journalists is most recently renowned for its Pulitzer Prize-winning revelations based on the disclosures made by whistleblower Edward Snowden
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What about The Guardian is equivalent to a right wing nutjob shouting "it's a conspiracy"?
 
T

Tallshortman

Member
Sounds like the Justice Department needs to reign the rogue elements in. A powerful law enforcement agency with elements that don't feel beholden to the law and who they report to is a danger to the republic.

I'm not talking about a political witch hunt, but anyone found doing anything out of bounds for political reasons needs to be fired.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
SwiftDeath said:
That's logically false. Every single FBI agent from the director to the greenest rookie could be 110% Trump, and still have vastly different opinions on the correct way to handle a situation like a potential new lead in the Hillary Clinton Email investigation. Some 110% Trump supporters could've viewed sending the letter that Comey did as being against the core principles of their job to serve the nation in an unbiased manner to better all citizens and thus there could be inner quarrels between staunch Trump supporters.

Now I do think that there will be all sorts of opinions at the FBI including Hillary supporters but simply because there is supposed inner conflict does not equate to necessarily being Pro-Hillary factions being the opposing side to Comey's actions.

I still believe people exist that can put their moral obligations before their party affiliation
Click to expand...

All of these points could still be true. If an investigation has uncovered severe wrongdoing INSERT EDIT HERE they may feel they have a moral obligation to make the public aware.


edit: and are being stonewalled with moving forward as is rumored
 
A

AlphaDump

Gold Member
MHWilliams said:
I agree with the idea that because the FBI is law enforcement, many believe they would probably get more leeway under Trump.

That said, the FBI is a pretty big organization. I doubt it's widespread and many are just doing their jobs. The problem here is you really only need a few people to make leaks a common thing.



Sounds like a goddamn nightmare.
Click to expand...

That is true, but you also need to think about the ones in the position to impact governance. It doesn't need to be widespread. Governance has been compromised.

It isn't a Hillary vs. Trump thing either. I am sure the majority of the bureau is super pissed off about those that are trying to effect the election, and give everyone a black eye.
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
shoplifter said:
All of these points could still be true. If an investigation has uncovered severe wrongdoing they may feel they have a moral obligation to make the public aware.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but innuendo and half truths isn't making the public aware of shit. There is no justification for this duplicity, they're aren't actually performing a public service here, just creating mistrust in the institution.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
tuxfool said:
I'm sorry, but innuendo and half truths isn't making the public aware of shit.
Click to expand...

Neither are statements like

The currently serving FBI agent said Clinton is “the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel,” and that “the reason why they’re leaking is they’re pro-Trump.”
Click to expand...


I'm not calling the journalist into question here, he's reporting what he's being told, but this is the personal opinion of an agent, one who may have an agenda of his own. The entire situation sounds like it's a mess for any number of reasons.


\/\/\/ do you not understand what "if" means? It's a conditional. No one besides the agents would know what they've found during the course of the investigation, which is why we're not going to go anywhere with this line, aside from providing a potential reason that specific agents may be doing what they are doing while admittedly having an effect on the election but not being GOP shills.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
shoplifter said:
And this was the office reportedly doing the Clinton Foundation investigation, so it makes sense that if they found clear evidence that they would be staunchly against her election. Not that it necessarily justifies the leaks, but an internal struggle with DoJ would be a likely reason.

I think it's fair to say that the theory that there are two factions is pretty reasonable.
Click to expand...

What clear evidence did they find?
 
M

Maintenance

Member
Wolfgunblood Garopa said:
I know the right has worked hard to de-legitimize the media, but you do understand there is an actual profession that people go to school for and put their life's work into called journalism? Those journalists investigate and report. In this case, it's Spencer Ackerman. From his bio at The Guardian:



The Guardian has a good reputation. From their bio:



What about The Guardian is equivalent to a right wing nutjob shouting "it's a conspiracy"?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying The Guardian is the one shouting that.
 
S

Slackbladder

Member
It's almost as if there's a disease eating away at America with some of its most vital organs now under attack. I don't think it's hyperbole to believe the future is going to be ugly. I am pretty pessimistic.
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
shoplifter said:
Neither are statements like




I'm not calling the journalist into question here, he's reporting what he's being told, but this is the personal opinion of an agent, one who may have an agenda of his own. The entire situation sounds like it's a mess for any number of reasons.
Click to expand...

But you realise what prompted this guy to say things like this is because those other investigators started it. He may say "If they're doing it, why shouldn't I?"

You're ascribing pure motivations in the investigators, but then you're tarnishing the opinion of this guy? Why? What makes them right, and this guy wrong?
 
J

Jenov

Member
JCizzle said:
Politically, there is no way she will be able to touch the FBI. It will be status quo under her IMO. The FBI ensured it with these leaks
Click to expand...

The president has the power to dismiss the FBI director. More than called for after this mess.
 
J

johnny956

Member
Guevara said:
The wacko conspiracy theory nut in me can't help but wonder:

Why do so many law-and-order types hate Clinton? What do they know that we don't? What did she get away with? And what is she getting away with even now?
Click to expand...


There aren't any conspiracy theories. Most in law enforcement are Republican. I work with them on a daily basis and seeing some of them turn red at the "things" Obama does is startling. Terrible conservatives memes and such posted. It goes on and on
 
S

SwiftDeath

Member
shoplifter said:
All of these points could still be true. If an investigation has uncovered severe wrongdoing INSERT EDIT HERE they may feel they have a moral obligation to make the public aware.


edit: and are being stonewalled with moving forward as is rumored
Click to expand...

So I'll start by clarifying that it could very well be that there are 2 factions in the FBI quarreling [a pro-Trump and a pro-Hillary side]. I just also meant that it's possible it could be Trump supporters quarreling about the right way to do their job.

Regarding what you stated, if members of the FBI are forcing leaks or disclosure of Clinton investigation stuff then why has nothing revealed actually been anything worth pursuing legally? That FOIA release had nothing of merit to it. It was all redacted, all fluff. There could be something incriminating Clinton but what they released showed nothing of the sort. Thus it logically comes across as partisan action until something is shown that actual indicates true wrongdoing on Clinton's part.

Also and not trying to be antagonistic but why did you edit like that? You could just add that in and other posters would not have gotten mad at you.
 
shoplifter

shoplifter

Member
^^^ edit: thread is moving quickly, wanted it to be clear what I had edited.

tuxfool said:
But you realise what prompted this guy to say things like this is because those other investigators started it. He may say "If they're doing it, why shouldn't I?"

You're ascribing pure motivations in the investigators, but then you're tarnishing the opinion of this guy? Why? What makes them right, and this guy wrong?
Click to expand...

I get that - the entire situation is horribly fucked. I'm not saying that *any* of them are wrong, or at least I hope that's not how I'm coming across. It's disturbing that we're getting the leaks at all. I'm just saying that there are reasons, for better or worse, that investigators would make leaks in this situation considering the stakes/ramifications.
 
George Washington

George Washington

Member
SwiftDeath said:
That's logically false. Every single FBI agent from the director to the greenest rookie could be 110% Trump, and still have vastly different opinions on the correct way to handle a situation like a potential new lead in the Hillary Clinton Email investigation. Some 110% Trump supporters could've viewed sending the letter that Comey did as being against the core principles of their job to serve the nation in an unbiased manner to better all citizens and thus there could be inner quarrels between staunch Trump supporters.

Now I do think that there will be all sorts of opinions at the FBI including Hillary supporters but simply because there is supposed inner conflict does not equate to necessarily being Pro-Hillary factions being the opposing side to Comey's actions.

I still believe people exist that can put their moral obligations before their party affiliation
Click to expand...

"Tensions have built in particular over the handling of matters related to Hillary Clinton. Some of the sharpest divides have emerged between some agents in the FBI's New York field office, the bureau's largest and highest-profile, and officials at FBI headquarters in Washington and at the Justice Department."

"Some rank-and-file agents interpreted cautious steps taken by the Justice Department and FBI headquarters as being done for political reasons or to protect a powerful political figure. At headquarters, some have viewed the actions and complaints of some agents in the field as driven by the common desire of investigators to get a big case or, perhaps worst, because of partisan views."

"Much of the turmoil centers not only on the handling of the probe into Clinton's use of a private server while secretary of state, but also another case some FBI agents wanted to pursue into the Clinton Foundation and whether there was any impropriety in dealings with donors."

"In both cases, some FBI investigators felt stymied by headquarters and Justice Department officials and they interpreted roadblocks as politically partisan."

"The surprise discovery of thousands of emails belonging to Abedin on a computer belonging to Weiner brought matters to a boil."

"The longer it took for officials at FBI headquarters and at the Justice Department to decide how to proceed with the matter, the more conspiracies spread among some agents that perhaps senior FBI officials were trying to cover up the matter."

"Politics is running rampant, says former FBI Boston chief Rick DesLauriers, who oversaw the investigation into the Boston Marathon bombings. Passions are high.
Click to expand...

So yeah...
 
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