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[hythloday]

I nominate "do guardians really have range or not" as worst gw2 argument thus far

It's not the worst vidya gaem argument though. The official EQ1 forums had a 20+ page thread over whether merchants should sell food called "Rations" because there is no such food called a Ration.

People got HEATED.

you might say, even, they got a little ir-ration-al about it.

 

[Hawkian]

Staff is for tagging mobs for loot/xp!

Spoiler

And running faster...

Also mowing down the Volatile Blossoms in TA.

edit: oh god everquest merchant puns

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Isn't the primary range option for Guardian the scepter, not the staff?

And it's pretty terrible!

 

[Ashodin]

GAFGuild closing ranks

When you put your hand out to get bit, expect to get bitten.

I play Guardian, and have for much longer than you have. (Over 700 hours in fact)

Guardians can be ranged, and are very viable. However, if you only keep thinking of "lol they cant even hit at the top of a wall" then you're just making a strawman argument.

That is the only area of the game where Scepter/Focus doesn't excel at. The only attack you can reliably hit with is Smite, and even then it's not for much damage, true.

The key ability that Guardians can reliably give with the Scepter is Scepter 3, the Chains ability. Immobilizing a target stops them from dodging, moving, and makes people able to focus fire. Just like any other Guardian skills I think they're a ranged support in WvW.

In PVE it's a different story. Rarely are enemies placed more than 1200 feet away from you, and Focus 4 is a light beam that gets rid of conditions, Focus 5 is a great tool to avoid damage if you have a melee weapon to get into melee.

Staff is the more support option than Scepter/Focus is. With might heal buff, orb of light, and swiftness, plus the limited arc range of the first attack, it's definitely a mid-range weaon.

What does that mean? Guardians are the most supportive ranged attacker rather than a direct ranged attacker. This does not mean they can't do ranged. They just don't have the best options other classes do.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

How exactly am I putting my hand out to be bit? Are you openly admitting that you're simply supporting Retro because you in the same GAFguild?

All the abilities that you have mentioned are not as Ranged Weapons (Damage) though, it's support and CC, which is just the same as normal Paladin roles, which again is the basis of Retro's argument - Guild Wars 2 breaks the mold be redefining Guardians in comparison (for example) Paladins in World of Warcraft, by making them a viable ranged weapon class.

You're just arguing for arguments sake (and perhaps trying to help a friend out). If anything, in a long winded way, you're agreeing with me.

 

[Serra]

Rolled a mesmer since it was my favorite class in GW1. Liking the mechanics of the class so far. Got to level 9, did some tailoring to get some bags and better armor. Im gonna give the guardian a try tomorrow maybe.

 

[Hawkian]

Mesmers reallly open up in the 40s and 50s. If you like it now, just wait

 

[nicoga3000]

I'm a little LTTP on this, but I can't tell - is the argument that Guardians have or do not have good ranged? Because ranged Guardian is amazing...I rock dungeons with ranged/melee combo.

E: I usually run staff + GS, but for a while, I was running staff + scepter/focus with amazing results. Hitting for 900-1100 and 2k+ crits seems pretty legit for ranged with support options built in.

 

[usea]

Yay, finally got Fractals scale 1 done. It was a lot of fun. Thanks to the people who ran it with me.

The snow one was hard because my video card doesn't agree with snow in this game. Here's what it looks like, without any fighting even going on:

 

[TheYanger]

How exactly am I putting my hand out to be bit? Are you openly admitting that you're simply supporting Retro because you in the same GAFguild?

All the abilities that you have mentioned are not as Ranged Weapons (Damage) though, it's support and CC, which is just the same as normal Paladin roles, which again is the basis of Retro's argument - Guild Wars 2 breaks the mold be redefining Guardians in comparison (for example) Paladins in World of Warcraft, by making them a viable ranged weapon class.

You're just arguing for arguments sake (and perhaps trying to help a friend out). If anything, in a long winded way, you're agreeing with me.

It's probably not worth trying. Guardians don't do ranged dps any better than a wow paladin did for 6 years (HOLY SHOCK!) and significantly worse than they do now. Redefined? what a crock. Terribly limited class.

Ranged UTILITY is nothing innovative or new, all forms of paladins in most games have had shit like that forever (even vanilla wow)

 

[jersoc]

Gonna have to echo the scepter not viable people here. In wvw, it is NOT viable. at all. It's crazy ass slow and the person would have to be retarded to get hit by it. In a large zerg it does ok enough. But in siege and defense it's awful. In small groups, it's awful. The reason it's good in zergs is because that's a cluster fuck of no one knows what's going on. People don't really pay attention to attacks. Plus the 2 skill AE is pretty good.

Let's not forgot there are no traits to combo with scepter. Well there's a few, but it's not worth it really. There's some really easy fixes here. Put in a trait that lowers cool downs, a trait that increase the projectile speed.

staff is even more of a joke.

if you think scepter is fine in wvw. you have not played it enough because the problems are very evident very quickly.

i just don't get people who are so quick to dismiss legit complaints people have. there was/is a huge thread on the official forums. we are hardly outliers here.

 

[erpg]

I'm not exactly surprised at the line up for the defending team here.

 

[Ashodin]

I'm not exactly surprised at the line up for the defending team here.

Funny, I was just about to say the same thing.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I agree. So much fighting the last few pages. You guys need to chill and stop trying to force opinions.

It's kind of obvious each side have their own thoughts on things so just leave it at that instead of arguing about stuff that's probably better suited for the official forums because you can be sure as hell that nothing's going to change by ranting here.

 

[TheYanger]

Having an opinion, is very different from having an opinion completely unsupported by facts and flaunting it as the 'right' opinion.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I'm a little LTTP on this, but I can't tell - is the argument that Guardians have or do not have good ranged? Because ranged Guardian is amazing...I rock dungeons with ranged/melee combo.

E: I usually run staff + GS, but for a while, I was running staff + scepter/focus with amazing results. Hitting for 900-1100 and 2k+ crits seems pretty legit for ranged with support options built in.

The argument is that Retro believes Guild Wars 2 has redefined the role of the 'Paladin', and uses the the 'Ranged Weapons' area as an example. Everyone who isn't in the same guild as Retro thinks this is a basically a lie, and at best ambiguous spiel.

However, because we point this out we're 'Dick waving' and making it personal.

You guys, now that you've made it as selective as you wanted, should probably just post on GAFguild if you're going to get over zealous when 'outsiders' post in the OFFICIAL TOPIC thread.

--

As for the GAFGuilds claiming to be doing great damage - what level are they? What gear do they have? What build do they have? What mobs are they attacking?

 

[Wallach]

I'm not really sure I understand how Guardians really break any kind of molds in GW2. If anything the Guardian - along with maybe the Ranger - seem like the classes that most adhere to the traditional roles for the archetypes they're filling. Guardians are a heavy armor, melee-focused class with one of the strongest supporting skill sets in the game. That's sort of what Paladins are in nearly every game they appear in. Most often their biggest weakness is their limited ranged options or lack of top end potential DPS. They don't really suffer in the latter like they often do in MMOs, but it seems pretty clear they do in the former.

I feel like the Warrior is a better example of GW2 taking a very common archetype and allowing it to gracefully shift out of the conventions people typically hold it to.

 

[Proven]

The perplexing thing about this conversation for me is the whole ranged options thing. See, Guild Wars 2 promised options for melee and range, and promised that every class can do support/DPS/control. What they never promised is that you can do all three at all ranges.

I'm perplexed because only half the classes have ranged as a DPS option. And all the ones that do, have a terrible time doing support at ranged.

For comparison, there is the Necromancer. He has a scepter and staff too. The scepter is also 900 range, and hits instant, but the damage piles on slow enough that if the person isn't distracted enough, he can just cleanse and/or gap close and get on your face. Conditionmancer relies on Scepter, but needs time to build up bleeds. Then there's the staff at 1200 range, but it's main attack is the same as the Guardian's. It moves really slow, is easy to dodge, makes you sit there wondering how you can actually be effective. Then there are the marks that actually get a few traits, but even then, they're all support and control spells. There has to be a trait deep in the power line just to get marks like 10% more damage, but then it's just to bring it up to par, just like the scepter trait.

On the flip side, you have the Warrior. He has the Longbow and the Rifle, and the bow when traited has 1200 range, so he has two max ranged weapons. The Longbow isn't that strong at straight DPS because it's a fire AOE tool, but the rifle is one of the best single target DPS weapons in the game, right up there with the Thief's knife in backstab builds. In compensation, his only direct support weapon skills are his Warhorn skills (funny enough, this is why I run it in my main build, and traited to boot).

So some have ranged control and support options, and others have ranged control and DPS options. No one gets all three at range. The point of the GAFguild members' argument is that the option is there, allowing you to still control the enemy and keep them off your allies while beating the, whilst taking a rest from the main fight. If you want to make a scepter focused build, I'd recommend taking the traits mentioned before, and going for more of a condition build while abusing the fact that the Guardian gets easy access to fire. That's what I do for pretty much any ranged weapon that doesn't have a lot of direct burst (Warrior Longbow, Thief Shortbow (the cluster bomb blast causes bleeds), etc).

Hell, I think the only strong direct damage ranged weapons in the game are the Warrior Rifle (ignore the bleeds on the auto-attack; that was a nerf), Ranger Longbow, Mesmer Greatsword, and (need to actually try this) Engineer Rifle. They all have strong knockback options, and all but one or two have auto-attacks that do more damage the further range you are. This paragraph is also ignoring the underwater weapons as my knowledge of them is clustered into two or three classes (water fights can be so damn good but because you're going in with less experience you have to really know what you're doing or else it's a clusterfuck and you'll come away never wanting to do it again).

Numerous Edits done because I still don't proofread we'll enough.

Additional disclaimer: I do a lot of WvW and sPvP. About to start up a tournament team with another small time guild. Class balance is something I try to figure out and then endlessly worry about, despite having no input on it.

 

[BrettWeir]

WTF is going on in this thread? Frickin' disaster.

On another note, I've finally found a viable, damn good spec for my Ranger in WvW. Conditions, baby! Screw the long/shortbow. It's all about axe/torch, sword/dagger. Having a damn blast solo and wreck fools.

 

[Retro]

Went ahead and changed the guild name this morning to reflect current attitudes. We are now known as "Guardians Attack Far [GAF]"

Seriously, some of you need to get a hobby. Actually, there's this great MMO that came out a few months back that some of you might like, it's - oh... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[erpg]

It's a shame that on the official forums we can have pretty rational discussions about how the Guardian (relevant example ;p) is incredibly stationary and pidgeonholed into a few select buids, but here, every time, it turns into 'you just don't like the game'. The PRetro moniker that led from that probably isn't the best thing to start an argument either.

Guardians are pretty much where Paragons were for the entirety of GW1. Effective, tied to very few staple builds, and without much flexibility. I wish they were more like the Monk (or even the ruined D/N Healing Dervish). And I've made my hate of symbols known in guild chat pretty well.

 

[TheYanger]

Went ahead and changed the guild name this morning to reflect current attitudes. We are now known as "Guardians Attack Far [GAF]"

Seriously, some of you need to get a hobby. Actually, there's this great MMO that came out a few months back that some of you might like, it's - oh... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Huge difference between liking something, and being unable to criticize something because of the defense force that pops up. Guardians are the most limited class in the game, not sure what you gain out of saying otherwise, but I'm sure Anet appreciates it? (Actually, I'm fairly sure they appreciate player honesty in regards to that sort of thing but whatever).

 

[nicoga3000]

Huge difference between liking something, and being unable to criticize something because of the defense force that pops up. Guardians are the most limited class in the game, not sure what you gain out of saying otherwise, but I'm sure Anet appreciates it? (Actually, I'm fairly sure they appreciate player honesty in regards to that sort of thing but whatever).

How much have you played one? I've leveled to 80 and been running dungeons for a while, along with a little WvW. I've never said, "Man, I feel gimped." I've played pure ranged and ranged/melee with loads of success.

Not saying there aren't some problems likely out there, but I personally have never experienced any issue in my build or setup to be able to agree with the notion that Guardians are gimped.

 

[Ferny]

So how about those Rangers with all the cool pets huh?

 

[KageZero]

Just bought the game and it's downloading right now. Now i doubt this was a good idea but its too late :/. So do you have any tips for a beginner like me? I'm still not sure what race i will pick (human,silvari or those norn) but the class will be elementalist,necromancer or messmer(also not 100% sure both look good). Can someone tell me in short opinions about these 3 classes? I read the starting tips on previous page but you have more useful informations i will be glad to hear them .

 

[erpg]

I'd just make one of each and try them out. Once you leave the tutorial area (which shouldn't take more than 15 minutes) you can enter the PvP lobby using the crossed sword icon at the top of the screen.

Once there, talk to a weapon vendor and buy (well, they're free) one of each for your class. Fiddle around with the skills against the target dummies in the zone and you should be able to discover which class' skills you've enjoyed the most. Pressing H will open the Hero screen, and one of the tabs on the left will let you change your traits (they're set to a default in PvP).

 

[01DragonFly]

So how about those Rangers with all the cool pets huh?

My pet has saved me more times than I can remember , they are really useful if you know how to used them , but some times they are a pain. also that self recover heal skill is pretty awesome.

 

[KageZero]

I'd just make one of each and try them out. Once you leave the tutorial area (which shouldn't take more than 15 minutes) you can enter the PvP lobby using the crossed sword icon at the top of the screen.

Once there, talk to a weapon vendor and buy (well, they're free) one of each for your class. Fiddle around with the skills against the target dummies in the zone and you should be able to discover which class' skills you've enjoyed the most. Pressing H will open the Hero screen, and one of the tabs on the left will let you change your traits (they're set to a default in PvP).

Oh, didn't know there was such a feature in game, that is nice thanks for the tip. Im from eu as i said before so i don't know what server to pick. Can i transfer characters or are they server locked like in other mmo-s?

 

[Noisy Ninj4]

Oh, didn't know there was such a feature in game, that is nice thanks for the tip. Im from eu as i said before so i don't know what server to pick. Can i transfer characters or are they server locked like in other mmo-s?

The account is set to the server you choose upon first opening the game. Characters will all remain on that server unless you switch later. If you switch the server your account is on, all your characters will move with it.

 

[TheYanger]

How much have you played one? I've leveled to 80 and been running dungeons for a while, along with a little WvW. I've never said, "Man, I feel gimped." I've played pure ranged and ranged/melee with loads of success.

Not saying there aren't some problems likely out there, but I personally have never experienced any issue in my build or setup to be able to agree with the notion that Guardians are gimped.

I've spent 90% of my time in the game on my Guardian. I was in TA and am still on the top server currently, I spent PLENTY of time playing it. Never said the class was gimpy, said that it's limited, HUGE difference. The argument that they are anything but support is a joke (I guess hammers are viable now, but still slow and clunky...great). Inability to meaningfully contribute to a ranged battle is a trait ONLY reserved for Guardians. Nobody ever said you need 1200 range capability to be ranged, but you definitely need to be able to do more than fire a single, slow-moving, low damage orb at one person once every couple seconds.

 

[KageZero]

Is switching free? What server do you recommend for europe then? As i have understood the gaf guild is only on the na server but im not sure should i go there because of the potential lag problems.

 

[Noisy Ninj4]

Is switching free? What server do you recommend for europe then? As i have understood the gaf guild is only on the na server but im not sure should i go there because of the potential lag problems.

Switching is currently free, with "sometime in the future" it will cost about $10 worth of gems (which can be bought with in-game gold). I'm not sure which server is best for playing on EU, but I understand that all the EU GAF players that switched to our NA server have had minimal lag issues.

 

[Deitus]

It's a shame that on the official forums we can have pretty rational discussions about how the Guardian (relevant example ;p) is incredibly stationary and pidgeonholed into a few select buids, but here, every time, it turns into 'you just don't like the game'. The PRetro moniker that led from that probably isn't the best thing to start an argument either.

Ultimately this is why discussions on these things involve a lot of people yelling at each other and attacking each other, with only a few seconds actually spent discussing the actual subject. Instead we get a whole lot of "you've probably never played the class past level 15," "you're just bad at the game," or "stop whining," and no one is actually providing any facts, arguments, or discussion.

It's not rocket science people; if you want civil discussion, be civil. When you start a debate with a personal attack, it's not a debate; it's a pissing contest.

 

[hythloday]

So how about those Rangers with all the cool pets huh?

I like ranger pets.

You know what else I like? Quaggans. Love me some quaggans.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Yes, because it was one witticism that started all of this... nothing at all to do with ambiguous false claims, or specific call outs by name. I'm convinced that he was looking for this 'shouting argument flame war'.

 

[KageZero]

I cant connect -.-. I'm living in dorm but other games like lol,wow,,tf2,COD,steam are working fine so i don't think that firewall is them problem. This is all i needed now...

 

[Proven]

Look, scepter is viable at range. Is it viable as a ranged DPS option? No. Is it viable as a ranged support and control option? Yes. That's what Retro and the others are saying on one side, while the others want a ranged DPS option. If your only definition of viable is the option for DPS, then a lot of different weapons in this game aren't viable. Weapons are tools. They aren't all made for directly killing people.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

And does that redefine the 'Paladin' class, as Retro likes to claim? Not at all.

 

[Noisy Ninj4]

I cant connect -.-. I'm living in dorm but other games like lol,wow,,tf2,COD,steam are working fine so i don't think that firewall is them problem. This is all i needed now...

Probably need to authorize the connection from your ip. Check your email.

 

[KageZero]

Probably need to authorize the connection from your ip. Check your email.

No mail... I will send them one then, i just hope they will fix it. Other games are working fine even free mmo-s so i don't understand why this one wont connect.

 

[TheYanger]

Look, scepter is viable at range. Is it viable as a ranged DPS option? No. Is it viable as a ranged support and control option? Yes. That's what Retro and the others are saying on one side, while the others want a ranged DPS option. If your only definition of viable is the option for DPS, then a lot of different weapons in this game aren't viable. Weapons are tools. They aren't all made for directly killing people.

Utility is USUALLY ranged by definition. Melee utility tends to be kind of shit in these games, and as noted - that's not a redefinition of the archetype, those abilities are traditionally ranged in every game (because it would be awful for them not to be).

 

[Proven]

All this guardian talk has me theory crafting a Radiant Rabid Scepter Guardian build. Maybe I should bump him up on my leveling order...

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Please, do so, I've asked several times what builds people are using, with what gear, and what mobs they're attacking when they're throwing these numbers at me.

 

[Deitus]

Yes, because it was one witticism that started all of this... nothing at all to do with ambiguous false claims, or specific call outs by name. I'm convinced that he was looking for this 'shouting argument flame war'.

I wonder if the irony of this statement is lost on you.

As I said when this argument started a week ago (Holy shit, how has this been going on this long?), I am absolutely interested in discussion on the state of Guardian balance, whether its range vs. melee or damage vs. support. There is definitely a lot that needs balancing in this game, and having only really played one class since release, its good to hear about how other classes are faring. However, I'm more convinced now than before that you have no interest in such a discussion. You just want to make sure everyone in the world knows that Retro is a lying PR shill(per your own assessment).

I don't think you should leave this thread, or get over your problems with the game balance. There are problems for sure, and they need to be discussed. But please get over your vendetta, and just discuss the game instead. I'm inclined to ignore any post you make in the future that contains the word "Retro".



Since I know my post will be dismissed as GAFGuild defending each other, allow me to address this claim. I do not need to defend Retro, not because he is blameless, or somehow above reproach, I simply think he's an adult and he can fight his own battles (or not, if he so chooses). I'm just sick of the bickering. I want to come to this thread and find insightful discussion on the actual game, not petty fights between posters about who said what. Maybe I don't get to decide whether this thread turns to shit. Maybe my posts are only going to fan the flames. I don't know, but I'm stating my piece.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Not at all.

Ask yourself this - if it was originally mentioned a week ago, why did Retro bring it up again yesterday, with my name specifically mentioned? And you believe I WANTED this?

Already responded to this, but I thought I'd copy over some basic tips from earlier in the thread to help people get their bearings in GW2:

Basic Tips:
1. Roll the class you think looks interesting and fun, not which you think will be most useful. If one doesn't click with you, try another. Every class can contribute, even breaking MMO-tropes; Guardians (the "Paladin"-like class) have ranged weapons (yes, Chriswok, they really do count), Rangers are good in melee, etc.

Your post is jumping to conclusions about me. I want to discuss Guardian builds, and have asked several times for those who have had success with scepters to share their builds. No one has. You've sided with one poster over another, for whatever reason and because of that have started to see things in my posts that simply are not there.

For what it's worth, and I'm sure no one really cares (and if they do it's probably 'good') I do not want any part of GAFguild, or this OT. You can't share opinions, you can't talk without being labelled a 'dick waver' 'Bitch' 'Whiney' etc. Has that what it's really come to on GAF now? I want to like this game, and I do, but the way people act towards those who don't agree with them does take a shine off of it, which is only compounded by the Pack Mentality currently hounding this thread.

 

[Grayman]

so i played a bit this weekend and got my mesmer to 70. I did the last 10 levels by cooking and geared up a bit with my new traits and wow was that a huge difference.

So does anyone have an opinion on magic find. I have been using of it, not maximizing, as I level but I am starting to think about level 80 gear which is going to cost me a bit now.

 

[jersoc]

Look, scepter is viable at range. Is it viable as a ranged DPS option? No. Is it viable as a ranged support and control option? Yes. That's what Retro and the others are saying on one side, while the others want a ranged DPS option. If your only definition of viable is the option for DPS, then a lot of different weapons in this game aren't viable. Weapons are tools. They aren't all made for directly killing people.

do you play wvw? control doesn't get you kills. it also doesnt kill a zerg, nor help in defense.

i what? it's not even good for control anyways. there's a root spell with like a 20s CD, that's it. how is that great for control? it's not even AE.

you guys are fucking crazy. this game is not perfect, the classes are not perfect. to just dismiss stuff is retarded.

but whatev, keep thinking the class fine and nothing will get fixed. i bet necros are fine too right? just complaining for nothing.

ffs.

 

[Noisy Ninj4]

So does anyone have an opinion on magic find. I have been using of it, not maximizing, as I level but I am starting to think about level 80 gear which is going to cost me a bit now.

I put magic find on a rare/masterwork set. Usually, when you're farming, you won't be involved with any extreme challenge. Rare/masterwork stuff is cheap as fuck and you don't get any additional MF for going with exotics anyway. It's especially cheap if you're crafting it or have someone else craft it.

When I'm farming, I stack up my luck sigil bonus to 15% and eat chocolate oranges (cheap as fuck, seeing a pattern?). That nets me a MF of 148% with the static bonuses from armor, runes, and jewelry. If I go hog wild and eat an chocolate omnomberry cream with a gem store MF booster, that turns into a MF of 210%.

 

[Retro]

Ask yourself this - if it was originally mentioned a week ago, why did Retro bring it up again yesterday, with my name specifically mentioned? And you believe I WANTED this?

Yawn.

Copied and pasted the tips I gave earlier, modified it to specifically end the argument before you started it again. If I hadn't, you would have jumped on me for "spreading disinformation" again. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Too busy enjoying the game to listen to constant bitching. The only people this affects are new players looking for info, instead wandering into the usual internet pissing contest.

so i played a bit this weekend and got my mesmer to 70. I did the last 10 levels by cooking and geared up a bit with my new traits and wow was that a huge difference.

So does anyone have an opinion on magic find. I have been using of it, not maximizing, as I level but I am starting to think about level 80 gear which is going to cost me a bit now.

Pretty much what Noisy already said, but I would add that Magic Find beyond food is usually pointless in dungeons since Chests are not affected.

 

[Proven]

A first pass: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQFAbEAiUIZKAgD06BAAA+DugrCUEA;TkAAzCpo+y8l4L7XuvkfNEA
Currently very incomplete.

Notes:

With Fury, and the Grandmaster trait Right-Hand Strength, the Scepter gets over 80% crit chance. All power boosts and Might will go towards making your crit damage higher, but that's really just a bonus. I want to use the flame blast Sigil, but since it doesn't actually cause a one second burn I'll either use the Sigil of Smoldering and use runes to up my condition duration, or I'll double up on Sigils of Earth (best condition damage Sigil in the game). Off-hand will be either Torch or Shield with a trait or rune set that causes burning on blocks.

I'm also picking up the Master Major trait in Virtues, Supreme Justice. I want to burn people more. Because Might would help in this build, I'm considering the use of Staff on the weapon swap. Otherwise I'll take some other one handed weapon. I tend to love one handed Swords on every single class I use, so that's my number one thing to try. If I went with a block=burn build, then Mace would be my target, probably paired with Shield.

The last two trait lines have traits that I know are powerful from playing other classes, but I don't know how necessary they are here. In Valor there's Retributive Armor which gives a small bonus to your precision, but if you upped Toughness enough you could possibly get up to a 90% crit chance, and that trait line also ups your crit damage. On the other hand, I want to put at least 5 points in Honor for Vigorous Precision. I just don't know how much I'll need to dodge, especially considering you want to stay at mid-range, just outside of melee. My gut tells me to just put all 20 remaining points into Toughness, but it's up to you. If you go with a close ranged weapon on your weapon swap, the extra Vigor might save you.

I don't know what utilities to use. I don't play Guardian yet, so I don't know which utilities I'll like and which ones I'll hate. My first thought is to go for ones that cause burning, but since they're utilities they're probably better being used to fill in holes.

It uses Rabid gear, which is a pain in the ass to gear for in PvE/WvW. But by the time I get around to leveling Guardian I should have enough extra resources to build it up quick. The absolutely fastest way to get Rabid gear is through karma, with a handful of pieces requiring dungeon runs. I already have some tokens and karma jugs saved. For Jewelery, there's a Medallion of the Rabid, and with the Fractal dungeon there are now rings and a backpiece, but only greens are available for the other accessories.

I picture playing this a lot like a Scepter Necromancer, except the orb speed means you're better fighting at around 600 range rather than off to the side of the fight like Necro's do. With Smite, and teammates to use Justice with, you can quickly get up a nice duration of burning, and then just get extra bleeds if you're using Sigil of Earth. A single burn is worth about 5 or 6 stacks of bleeding, so including the direct damage hits you'll be doing at least 1.5k damage per second, and that's me low balling it.

But this needs to be tested, and I hate hate hate testing utilities with classes I'm unfamiliar with in PvP matches, so I wouldn't be able to perfect this until I start leveling my own Guardian (probably some time in the next week or two, since I want to at least get my Thief to 60).

do you play wvw? control doesn't get you kills. it also doesnt kill a zerg, nor help in defense.

i what? it's not even good for control anyways. there's a root spell with like a 20s CD, that's it. how is that great for control? it's not even AE.

you guys are fucking crazy. this game is not perfect, the classes are not perfect. to just dismiss stuff is retarded.

but whatev, keep thinking the class fine and nothing will get fixed. i bet necros are fine too right? just complaining for nothing.

ffs.

Stop zerging, get in a party, focus fire. That's how I play WvW, done a majority of my leveling across all my characters in WvW, and bought the Gift of Battle ages ago with all the badges I got. Over 5k kills and on my way to 6k. And so you know, the average recharge time for a skill that causes immobilize is 20-30 seconds.

Necro also happens to be the second class I ever leveled to 80. I know it's the buggiest class in the game. But what am I going to do? Sit there and not play the class I want to play? I don't even run a condition damage spec on my Necro, and that's the one type of spec that has almost no bugs to it.