-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Guild Wars 2 |OT2| Funding An MMO Entirely On Quaggan Backpacks
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
- Status
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Level up your crafting.
My main is only level 31. Stupid gaming ADD!
Not that I endorse what that PUG group did but wearing MF gear in a dungeon is pretty selfish, especially Arah. You're essentially gimping your effectiveness for the chance to loot better gear which has no benefit to anyone else in the group. This is one of the reasons I think MF is a stupid and unnecessary mechanic. I don't know why it Anet thought it was a good idea to make players choose between better stats or better drops. The two things should not be mutually exclusive.
I can't really understand the rage when it comes to new armor though. Most people who have played since launch are probably in full exotics and twiddling their thumbs without much idea of what to do next. Legendaries are unattainable for 95% of the player base so at least this gives them something else to strive for.
It doesn't matter, as you are leveled up to 80 for the event.
I do agree that magic find is a dumb system that makes you choose between gimping yourself, or actually getting good drops. I do wish it never found its way into GW2, or if it did, it should not exist in the form of armor stats. Confine all magic find to food effects, and I'd have no complaints. But obviously its too late for that.
I'm not going to put down anyone who uses a magic find set though. It is a bit selfish, but the game is designed to reward that selfishness, so I can't blame someone for playing the game as intended. Really, ArenaNet should have designed drop rates in such a way that they encouraged co-operation rather than selfishness, as they did with so many other aspects of their design.
I think rage would be unjustified. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions as to what this new gear system is, until we know more about it. Still, I will be pretty disappointed if it ends up being what some people are suspecting.
Frankly, one of the things that interested me so much about this game was the pitch that it wouldn't be a gear treadmill, and that max stat gear would be relatively easy to obtain, with the big focus being on horizontal and cosmetic progression. The fact that you could max your stats fairly early, and then just play as little or as much as you want, and not feel like you are being left behind did a lot to break away from the endless progression grind that so many MMOs are based on.
So if they are changing their minds (and I'm not saying they are), and starting to release more tiers of items to satisfy people who are maxed out, only to do the same thing a few months later when this new tier becomes the norm, it will be a direct contradiction of their game design philosophy, and a huge disappointment to me. I don't believe they will go this route, but I can definitely understand why people are cautious about this announcement.
My Theory:
There was a leak in late October that suggested a few things that would be appearing in the November Update;
The big one is that third item; my thinking is that the Fractals dungeon represents an entirely new PVE mode, a randomized dungeon-crawl that gets progressively harder the deeper you go, sort of a hybrid between Horde mode and MMO dungeon crawls.
Characters who enter this new mode could be stripped of their gear and be automatically leveled to 80, as is the case with sPVP. I think this will be the case because of another panic-inducing feature in the preview; Ascended Gear. If this is indeed a new game mode, it seems obvious that Ascended Gear will be Fractals-exclusive; you can only wear it inside the new mode (or cosmetically when outside it, probably garnering a new tab like the Town Clothes). Likewise, Infusions are the Fractals-exclusive upgrade items.
This would allow for a completely isolated and internally balanced PVE mode so something like Leaderboards isn’t out of the question, with players fighting to get deeper and deeper into the fractals. The deeper you go, the more things you unlock for normal PVE play; titles, weapon and armor skins, mini-pets? The potential is unlimited.
That doesn’t even take into account that because the new mode is set in the Mists, ArenaNet has free reign to do whatever they want; add a new mini-dungeon into the shuffle every few months? Temporary holiday Fractals? Glimpses into the past or even future of Tyria? The Mists allows ArenaNet a sort of blank slate where anything can happen.
So it might not be just a new dungeon, stealing thunder from the old. It’s possibly an entirely new PVE mode that happens to be built around bite-sized dungeon content, but co-existing alongside them. Likewise, Ascended Gear and Infusions are not a new tier of loot we're being forced to chase after, but a completely different gear set exclusive to this new mode.
There was a leak in late October that suggested a few things that would be appearing in the November Update;
- 3 Day event to hide a mysterious threat.
- A new island in the game world.
- New PVE game mode
- New PVP features
- A new island in the game world.
- New PVE game mode
- New PVP features
The big one is that third item; my thinking is that the Fractals dungeon represents an entirely new PVE mode, a randomized dungeon-crawl that gets progressively harder the deeper you go, sort of a hybrid between Horde mode and MMO dungeon crawls.
Characters who enter this new mode could be stripped of their gear and be automatically leveled to 80, as is the case with sPVP. I think this will be the case because of another panic-inducing feature in the preview; Ascended Gear. If this is indeed a new game mode, it seems obvious that Ascended Gear will be Fractals-exclusive; you can only wear it inside the new mode (or cosmetically when outside it, probably garnering a new tab like the Town Clothes). Likewise, Infusions are the Fractals-exclusive upgrade items.
This would allow for a completely isolated and internally balanced PVE mode so something like Leaderboards isn’t out of the question, with players fighting to get deeper and deeper into the fractals. The deeper you go, the more things you unlock for normal PVE play; titles, weapon and armor skins, mini-pets? The potential is unlimited.
That doesn’t even take into account that because the new mode is set in the Mists, ArenaNet has free reign to do whatever they want; add a new mini-dungeon into the shuffle every few months? Temporary holiday Fractals? Glimpses into the past or even future of Tyria? The Mists allows ArenaNet a sort of blank slate where anything can happen.
So it might not be just a new dungeon, stealing thunder from the old. It’s possibly an entirely new PVE mode that happens to be built around bite-sized dungeon content, but co-existing alongside them. Likewise, Ascended Gear and Infusions are not a new tier of loot we're being forced to chase after, but a completely different gear set exclusive to this new mode.
It's easier to solo when you have more of your skills and traits to work with, but Eles can solo in WvWvW.
The easiest and most useful solo objective for a player in WvWvW is ganking enemy yaks and disrupting supply flow to future objectives. Yesterday I was running disruption in the northeast part of a borderland map, killing yaks for both sides, trying to choke supply to red server garrison and the blue server's keep. You have to do a lot of hit n run, so mobility and escape is of large importance.
You can also help escort yaks, but they disabled the xp and karma gain from doing that because bots were exploiting it. So while its helpful, you don't currently get rewarded for it.
Overall, I solo by flowing in and out of large zergs, then splitting off to smaller groups taking supply camps or going totally solo and scouting activity and then ganking yaks in enemy territory. You can also take NPC camps if you want and take out the enemy guards that protect or watch supply routes.
Look for commanders, see if commanders are asking for help on a siege or defense, watch local friendly supply camps and see if they are being attacked, and watch enemy yak movements to sneak in and take a yak out between drops.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
Echoing that magic find is a shitty mechanic and should only be used as consumables. But it's too late for that now. And skill and build setup are far more important than gear anyways. I actually ran a full yellow MF setup when I did that Arah run when Hawkian kept disconnecting and we were down to 4 people. I just happen to spec full survivability and support.
For WvW, while soloing is still fun, it's still ideal to be in a group. The issue (like the Orr farming events) is that there's a damage threshold you have to hit to get credit/loot for kills. And in a group, this threshold is split amongst all the members. I learned this the hard way trying to farm badges. The GAF guild is mainly a PVE guild now and then there's the qeues, so it might be a bit hard to find willing groups for WvW.
For WvW, while soloing is still fun, it's still ideal to be in a group. The issue (like the Orr farming events) is that there's a damage threshold you have to hit to get credit/loot for kills. And in a group, this threshold is split amongst all the members. I learned this the hard way trying to farm badges. The GAF guild is mainly a PVE guild now and then there's the qeues, so it might be a bit hard to find willing groups for WvW.
NobleXenon
Member
Is the Ascended Armor the equivalent of a hypothetical "Legendary Armor?" The game is missing a tier after Exotic Armor, just sayin. If the Ascension Armor is like GW1, you'll just do a mission, be Ascended/Infused, and won't be one-shotted by spectral magic.
It's a problem in dungeons, but in normal PVE it's actually useful to a lot of people.
Nobody knows what Ascension Armor is yet, but a lot of the Officers think my post above is pretty close to what they'll be doing. Martin Kerstein tweeted earlier that there would be a blog post tonight explaining what it is.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
That may be true, but I'm just not a fan of magic find mechanics in any game period. TWEWY's version of magic find is the best one where you make the difficulty harder by deleveling yourself to obtain better loot.
Right, no disagreement that it should be separated from gear (as you say, consumables would have been the best way to go). But to call it a shitty mechanic because it negatively impacts dungeon runs (and that's assuming anyone can tell you're wearing it) overlooks that it has uses elsewhere.
This would be amazing if true. If it ends up happening Ill prob be in Fractals at least once a day.
BrettWeir
Member
Gotta say....was more excited about the Halloween event than Lost Shores. Not intrigued at all. Only thing I am interested in with the whole thing is the "5 pages of class changes". Really, REALLY hoping they actually make Rangers a good class.
On a side note....Woot! Just hit 5,000 WvW kills. Blackgate making it so much easier....man they are bad.
On a side note....Woot! Just hit 5,000 WvW kills. Blackgate making it so much easier....man they are bad.
It shares a lot of similarities with Phantasy Star Online's Challenge mode; short bites of dungeons, recycling content but re-arranging it in unique ways to be much more difficult, where everyone is equalized (both gear and level) and forced to work together, sharing loot that doesn't transition to the normal game so everyone can succeed as a group.
Really? A whole new zone, dungeon (or possibly new dungeon mode) and sPVP map? That doesn't do anything for you?
br0ken_shad0w
Member
Eh that sentence was more towards the magic find itself not magic find use in dungeons. I was responding to the guy who thinks using magic find gear in dungeons is being selfish and I was being contrary. I hate magic find the mechanic, but I don't mind if someone uses it or not in whatever situation (since that was the dev's intention)
This would be sweet. Would even get some of my friends on the fence to try out the game.
Yes. In this context, vertical progression means they'll add new tiers of gear with each new piece of content, so max stats on items always keep on improving as long as the developers add new tiers of content. Horizontal progression means that even when new content is added, the max stats remain the same, and people will only hunt gear for cosmetics.
Guild Wars 1 used horizontal progression. ArenaNet specifically promised horizontal progression in Guild Wars 2. Mike O'Brien even touches on this in the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto, which is what I meant to link earlier: "So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee."
Now, I'm not saying I know how this will turn out, and I never did. I've been waiting for the official response all day. But if it turns out like people are speculating, expect a lot of people, myself included, to quit. What's sad is I wasn't even remotely close to thinking about quitting yesterday. Either ArenaNet people really messed up its messaging or ArenaNet is about to go into really bad territory.
I don't mind vertical progression as long as those new sets of items are also not very difficult to get.
BrettWeir
Member
The zone sounds rather small. I've had 4 level 80s...and only stepped into one dungeon....Arah, and only one of my toons which was only to defeat Zhaitan. I can't stand dungeons. I'm also not a fan of sPvP at all.
I guess if the dungeon were like Darkness Falls, not instanced, then hell yes. But instanced dungeons can eat it.
I would probably pay $5 monthly for a game with no levels or equipment. You could get skins or whatever, but your stats were not based on what you equip. It was all instanced dungeons, instanced pvp, and open world pvp like wvw.
The worst part of mmos is the stupid quests, leveling, and gear treadmills. I just want to play the game, stop making me get to 80 before I can start. Stop making me run a dungeon 40 times before I can get the gear I need.
Also you should be able to switch classes and specs at any time not in combat, with several saved configurations you can swap to with the push of a button.
The worst part of mmos is the stupid quests, leveling, and gear treadmills. I just want to play the game, stop making me get to 80 before I can start. Stop making me run a dungeon 40 times before I can get the gear I need.
Also you should be able to switch classes and specs at any time not in combat, with several saved configurations you can swap to with the push of a button.
The core of the post just to have in the thread.
New Tier of items: Ascended
New Condition: Agony
Ascended Items can use infusions to protect against Agony.
To start, there will be Rings (from the new dungeon) and back pieces (from new MF recipes)
Ascended weapons will eventually be introduced, as will new Legendaries. New and current Legendaries weapons will always be updated to be on-par with the highest tier of weapons.
Lemme know if I seem to have misread any of that.
Hype Thread
New Tier of items: Ascended
New Condition: Agony
Ascended Items can use infusions to protect against Agony.
To start, there will be Rings (from the new dungeon) and back pieces (from new MF recipes)
Ascended weapons will eventually be introduced, as will new Legendaries. New and current Legendaries weapons will always be updated to be on-par with the highest tier of weapons.
Lemme know if I seem to have misread any of that.
Hype Thread
I don't understand the point of the gear being statistically superior to exotics outside of the infusion slots. It's such a meaningless bump that they were smart enough to eliminate it in Legendaries pre-launch, and now they are undoing it and making it worse. Surely their memory cannot be that short.
Everything else seems fine.
Everything else seems fine.
Wow, didn't really want to say anything until we knew at least some details, but it really does look like they're introducing creep. At very least sticking their big toes in the water.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Would be better if they did it like GW1 where you did a mission and had your armor upgraded as a result.
So, in a nutshell, there's a new tier of gear between Exotic and Legendary, and this new tier has a unique slot type that can hold a new type of upgrade item called Infusions, purposely built to resist a new condition called Agony, which will appear in the new dungeon and (I assume) all future endgame content.
The sky remains safely overhead.
The sky remains safely overhead.
The Acended gear in and of itself is not too bad, but I really hope this does not become a trend. If this is basically the last tier of gear, and all future upgrades are horizontal, then I'm fine with it. If this becomes a regular occurrence, then they run the risk of slipping into generic MMO progression, which will kill my interest in the game.
Translation, this is the way the game is heading, the gear grind is back, the +4 new tier sets with content. Yay for wow again.
Right here, I'll hang onto it for when you come to your senses and come back.
Seriously, it's "We realized there was too big of a gap between Exotic and Legendary which was too steep for most people to overcome, and wanted to fix it", not "LOL, here's a new tier to grind, little hamsters!"
What do you mean? This tier is above current legendaries because current legendaries are actually exotics; this new tier is the new ceiling, she clearly states that moving forward legendaries will match ascended if any new changes are made. So it is kind of just a new tier to grind, complete with a stat increase. Worse yet it apparently only comes from one source of gameplay right now, yet impacts all PvE and WvW.
I'm sure it will, which is kind of disappointing.
I'd much rather they focus on bugs/content than throwing a "mechanic" at us and "adding" in gear to counter-act it.
Current Legendaries will be getting a buff to remain top tier. Instead of
Basic > Fine > Masterwork > Rare > Exotic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Legendary
it's now
Basic > FIne > Masterwork > Rare > Exotic > Ascended >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Legendary
And right now, there will only be Rings that come from the new dungeon, and a back item that comes from the Mystic Forge. As they release more new end game content in the future, there will be more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to all aspects of the game.
They were never intended to be any better, and in fact the 3% stat bonus they had has been removed, so now they literally are exotics. That's the point though; Legendaries are badass-looking status symbols, not the best weapons ever.
I'm not talking about gear quality above, I'm talking about the time it takes to earn those items.
In rarity, but people are talking about power progression. Right now legendaries are exotics. After this change, legendaries will be ascended, and ascended is a new tier to grind for above exotics. She even makes it clear there is more progression planned within the ascended tier itself. I mean there isn't any other way to slice it, that is the kind of gear progression people did not want from this game.
They wanted more flexibility with their items and infusions allowed them to do that instead of just tacking it onto exotics (and making choices more complicated). I'm talking to Kristen about it and that's what she said.
Strange, in their own words they said "people got legendaries too quickly and we realized we had to create a new tier of gear so they would continue to feel like they (the people who got legendaries so quickly) were improving".
I'm confused why anyone would say 'well it's ok if they just add rings and such instead of a whole set of armor'. They said themselves eventually you'll be able to get a whole set of gear including weapons in the future.
Just the implication of having gear only obtainable in pve dungeons that you can use in wvw to get an advantage (no matter how big or small), sucks. Been to that show and I'm not going back. If they cave this quickly on this it's just a matter of time before they're making more hardcore concessions.
- Status