Halo 4, One Year Later: What Happened?

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It's possible to analyse what makes Halo, Halo. But at the end of the day it's still not something you can really describe in words, in my opinion.

Sure you can mention the features and mechanics of a Halo game like the way weapons are balanced, starting players out on equal footing, or that the consequences of actions are (or should always be) predictable, but it's only by picking it up and playing it that you can tell if it's a Halo game or not. There's a certain feel to it, and it's a lot of very small things that give it its unique signature.
"It feels like Halo" is fine and all, but there are some foundational building blocks you can't ever remove. Halo 4 is the prime example of losing all foundation, still looks and sound like a Halo game, but has lost it's soul and uniqueness.

If you want to evolve core principles, that is another matter. Those principles at least still exist.
 
Tbh, as long as the new Halo has a good ranking system, all start with same weapon, no ordinance and good maps, I would buy the new Halo and Xbox One in a heartbeat.

Also 4 shot BR.
 
"It feels like Halo" is fine and all, but there are some foundational building blocks you can't ever remove. Halo 4 is the prime example of losing all foundation, still looks and sound like a Halo game, but has lost it's soul and uniqueness.

If you want to evolve core principles, that is another matter. Those principles at least still exist.

I agree with your point on the foundations. In fact, I'd say it was implicit in my point, just that it's not the whole story.

I don't agree that H4 feels like a Halo game though. Superficially it might look like one, but the feel isn't there.
 
players these days want unlocks and leveling. Halo 3, which had a great population and no notable leveling other than trueskill matching and a medal was an anomoly. Those days are past and kids now need the CoD leveling to enjoy a FPS. You can't close pandora's box, and Halo does not work well with the unlocks.

oh, and the maps were not competitive except for Haven, and that population is what kept Halo 2/3 going for so long. So they moved on.

Tbh, as long as the new Halo has a good ranking system, all start with same weapon, no ordinance and good maps, I would buy the new Halo and Xbox One in a heartbeat.

Also 4 shot BR.

Halo 4 has 4 shot BR now.
 
As a guy who doesn't play or follow Halo, this is really interesting.

It's one thing to say "THEY RUINED THE SERIES, ITS SO TERRIBLE" but when you have data to back you up, it's hard to argue. The comparisons to 3 and Reach wrt player retention are just brutal.
 
I have the answer

The Halos have lost it because they lost their roots, which was always competitive multiplayer. Halo 1, Halo 2, and Halo 3 was highly regarded for its competitive multiplayer and every title after that lost its multiplayer magic.


Halo 3 is one of the best if not the best multiplayer game period specifically the MLG game type. The MLG game mode was fantastic and a brilliant mix of strategy in map control, power ups, team work/team shoot, and skill. All of the Halo 3 MLG maps were fantastic and highly strategic forcing team work. The leveling system of levels 1-50 is also the best fitting the Halo game style. It forced you to make friends to strategize more to get your 50, and when you did, it really gave you a huge sense of accomplishment. I don't think this leveling system of 1-50 will work for games like COD but it definitely fitted Halo for its type of game with shields/recharge, etc. Perhaps only the MLG game type can use this leveling system. The maps of Halo 4 and since Halo 3 like reach, etc, were never of high quality as the Halo 1, 2, and 3 maps like Pit, Guardian, Narrows, etc., etc.

As someone really active in Halo 3 with teams and MLG, me and my friends always purchased the next Halos thinking it will be the same as Halo 3 but was always disappointed. Halo 4 was really terrible for competitive online multiplayer. Me and my friends are buying Halo 4 kept thinking they would release the MLG game type any week, and it was an extreme disappointment to us that it never came.

Executive Summary - Reasons why Halo 4 failed and its popularity quickly dropped -

Lost the spirit of competitive online multiplayer
The online multiplayer maps especially for MLG game modes are far too few, and really poor, not as high quality as Guardian, Narrows, The Pit, etc and do not even reach the quality of Halo 1 and 2 maps
No MLG gametype
Terrible leveling and party system and the return of the 1-50 Halo 3 system is highly popular among Halo fans
Adding mechs to Halo 4 was really stupid and took away from the heart of the game
 
players these days want unlocks and leveling. Halo 3, which had a great population and no notable leveling other than trueskill matching and a medal was an anomoly. Those days are past and kids now need the CoD leveling to enjoy a FPS. You can't close pandora's box, and Halo does not work well with the unlocks.

oh, and the maps were not competitive except for Haven, and that population is what kept Halo 2/3 going for so long. So they moved on.



Halo 4 has 4 shot BR now.
I found Halo's skill based 1-50 far more addictive than I ever did unlocks. It felt like a far more substantive achievement than ranking up or unlocking something due to playtime.
 
But the rabid fan we are, as soon as they release a news article with buzz words like "competive gameplay" and "we need to respect halo's legacy" we will all board the "Beli343" hype train again.

Some of us may and some may not. It's a positive thing that some fans will come back and give it a shot. They should definitely capitalize on that by making a game fans want.
 
Here's my opinion:

I was a die hard Halo fan. I played Halo 2 like crazy, and have played every Halo game, spending countless hours in multiplayer.

I went back and tried to play Halo 3 recently when it became free, even though I already had the game. I found it too slow and the controls too sluggish. It felt like playing in molasses.

I enjoy the speed of Halo 4, but don't like all the bells and whistles. I do like sprint, however. I think they need to focus on what made Halo great - map control, power weapons and powerups. They also need to tighten the controls and increase the frame rate to 60fps. I used to shrug off the 30fps speed but after playing other shooters with better frame rates and tighter controls, I have a really hard time going back to Halo, which is what I think happens to most of the COD/BF players when they first try out the game.

Get rid of weapon loadouts, and instead go back to weapon placement on the map. If people like specific weapons, place them on the map so people can find them.

Vehicles are a big part of Halo as well. Bring back the recharging vehicle health and locking vehicle health to player health.

Ranking is important to people. Show everyone's skill level. It is better than simply showing how long you've played the game through experience leveling. Experience leveling up should still be there, giving you visual improvements to your armor and weapons, but not gameplay changes.

I think the new weapon indicators in the game (showing where power weapons are on the map) is a good idea in general, even if it dumbs down the game a bit.

I like the kill times in Halo 4, and think the weapons are fairly balanced, but get rid of redundant weapons. You don't need forerunner or covenant equivalents of each type of weapon. Simplify the game, it makes it better and more focused.
 
I think splitting matchmaking back into Ranked and Social will make a big improvement straight off the bat. People want that 1-50 rank system (or similar), filling bars and very slowly unlocking stuff doesn't feel rewarding. Make Ranked competitive again, weapons placed on map, maps designed around map control. No weapon indicators or anything like that which makes it easier.

Throw all that stuff into social, that way you get the best of both worlds. Have stressful, tense ranked games that people try their hardest at and then have them stupid wacky social playlists where people just have fun because it doesn't matter. I get that people boosting accounts was a big reason as to why they changed it from 1-50 but hell. Surely once they got them back their rank dropped like a bomb? What's the big deal?
 
I think splitting matchmaking back into Ranked and Social will make a big improvement straight off the bat. People want that 1-50 rank system (or similar), filling bars and very slowly unlocking stuff doesn't feel rewarding. Make Ranked competitive again, weapons placed on map, maps designed around map control. No weapon indicators or anything like that which makes it easier.

Throw all that stuff into social, that way you get the best of both worlds. Have stressful, tense ranked games that people try their hardest at and then have them stupid wacky social playlists where people just have fun because it doesn't matter. I get that people boosting accounts was a big reason as to why they changed it from 1-50 but hell. Surely once they got them back their rank dropped like a bomb? What's the big deal?

I remember retreating into social due to griefing by second-accounters and cheaters in ranked.
 
Some of us may and some may not. It's a positive thing that some fans will come back and give it a shot. They should definitely capitalize on that by making a game fans want.

I honestly think that though they have lost people, if they make a good Halo game this time, those fans will come back. This is THE LAST CHANCE for Microsoft/343 to get it right.
 
Of course Halo 3 beat Halo 4 that week, the game was free.

If Microsoft gave out Call of Duty 4 for free I'm sure it would outrank at least one of the other CoD games on Major Nelson's chart.

I love Halo 3, but will the population surge last? I doubt it.
 
I honestly think that though they have lost people, if they make a good Halo game this time, those fans will come back. This is THE LAST CHANCE for Microsoft/343 to get it right.

I think Halo 4 was the last chance, honestly. Many Halo fans were previously burnt by Halo: Reach, and since Halo 4 was not an improvement the title has permanently harmed the franchise. Once you lose goodwill, it takes twice as much effort to gain it back than it took to build it.

I think if 343i is going to bring back the greatness that once was the Halo franchise, it's going to take a miracle. That's why so many former fans are taking the wait and see approach, and thus won't be excited whatsoever about any news of the next title.
 
Of course Halo 3 beat Halo 4 that week, the game was free.

If Microsoft gave out Call of Duty 4 for free I'm sure it would outrank at least one of the other CoD games on Major Nelson's chart.

I love Halo 3, but will the population surge last? I doubt it.

Yea, but it wouldn't out rank the NEWEST one. CoD 4 for free would never top Blops 2.
 
I think Halo 4 was the last chance, honestly. Many Halo fans were previously burnt by Halo: Reach, and since Halo 4 was not an improvement the title has permanently harmed the franchise. Once you lose goodwill, it takes twice as much effort to gain it back than it took to build it.

I think if 343i is going to bring back the greatness that once was the Halo franchise, it's going to take a miracle. That's why so many former fans are taking the wait and see approach, and thus won't be excited whatsoever about any news of the next title.

It was the last chance for me. At this stage, seeing how little they did in the first few months to patch, balance tweak and tune playlists/maps - has left me with no confidence they (343i) can deliver.
I played the living fuck out of every Halo game (including Reach and 4). I was on board for the next Xbox based on Halo alone. But after experiencing 343's approach to game design and community, I'm done. I'll borrow the next couple of Halo games off a friend in a few years.

I'm also done listening to Frankies PR. I called him out on the lack of communication the community was getting on balance and playlists in the lead up to the Halo 4 launch. I received a response basically telling me I could apologise, grovel etc - effectively telling me/everyone that it was sorted. I'm on my mobile, so can't dig the posts up - but yeah, we can see what happened now. Lack of communication and support for the community.
 
This thread made me fire up Halo: CE again.

I can't believe that 4 dumped the monks. And the entire fucking Halo theme. I'm playing Anniversary, and I'm psyched as hell just from the opening video with the music playing.
 
Here's my opinion:

I was a die hard Halo fan. I played Halo 2 like crazy, and have played every Halo game, spending countless hours in multiplayer.

I went back and tried to play Halo 3 recently when it became free, even though I already had the game. I found it too slow and the controls too sluggish. It felt like playing in molasses.

I enjoy the speed of Halo 4, but don't like all the bells and whistles. I do like sprint, however. I think they need to focus on what made Halo great - map control, power weapons and powerups. They also need to tighten the controls and increase the frame rate to 60fps. I used to shrug off the 30fps speed but after playing other shooters with better frame rates and tighter controls, I have a really hard time going back to Halo, which is what I think happens to most of the COD/BF players when they first try out the game.

Get rid of weapon loadouts, and instead go back to weapon placement on the map. If people like specific weapons, place them on the map so people can find them.

Vehicles are a big part of Halo as well. Bring back the recharging vehicle health and locking vehicle health to player health.

Ranking is important to people. Show everyone's skill level. It is better than simply showing how long you've played the game through experience leveling. Experience leveling up should still be there, giving you visual improvements to your armor and weapons, but not gameplay changes.

I think the new weapon indicators in the game (showing where power weapons are on the map) is a good idea in general, even if it dumbs down the game a bit.

I like the kill times in Halo 4, and think the weapons are fairly balanced, but get rid of redundant weapons. You don't need forerunner or covenant equivalents of each type of weapon. Simplify the game, it makes it better and more focused.

Not that I think they will have the guts to dump Sprint but why not just increase base player speed? If Halo is going to have a future it needs to be different than the others.
 
Re: Player speed and kill times.

They should increase base player speed and/or include sprint, but they need to resist the urge to decrease kill times.

We can argue that it took too long to kill people in Reach. Bungie went into the game saying they were looking for 'messier' fire-fights, that would see players use the environment and their AAs to battle back and forth for the kill. Personally, I was fine with it, it gave Reach a distinct flavor, but I can see how it turned off other players.

But part of what separates Halo from other shooters and makes it more skill-full is the increased time it takes to cut through somebody's shields for the killing shot(s). In a COD game (and to a point, in Halo 4... at least up to the time I stopped playing), if you get the drop on somebody, you win. If somebody scores that first shot, just put down the controller and speed up the time till respawn.

In Halo:CE through to Halo 3, if a player got the drop on you and you were better than them, you could turn the tide of battle in your favor and come out on top. There were no lucky kills, no 'happened to be in the right place' moments, there were just players who knew how to make the best use out of their environment, their weapons, and how to lead the battle in such a way that they could flip the advantage.

Re: 1-50 ranking system

We do need a ranking system of some kind back in Halo, as it places what separates Halo from the rest of the pack front and center - skill.

That said, people are kind of white-washing the issues that the 1-50 system had. Many players - including competitive players - were none too thrilled by the fact that you could go +15 in a match and derank, simply because of the performance of your team. People didn't like having their rank based on wins/losses (ESPECIALLY in Slayer... I think people in the Objective game types were ok with it, from my experience) because they felt it relied too much on factors outside their control. They wanted a ranking that rewarded individual performance.

Secondly, the point of the ranking system - based on the interviews with Bungie in the press and vidocs - was never to become a dick-measuring contest a la COD prestiges. You weren't supposed to be ashamed of being in the 20s or 30s, it was just to let you know where you stood relative to the people you were matched up with (if you're a 35, you know that they guys at 37 are probably a little better, the guys at 31 are moderately worse). But people made such a big fuckin deal out of them, I can understand why Bungie gradually, over the course of updates to Halo 3 and then ultimately the system in Reach said 'fuck this, feeding the egos of the hyper-competitive players isn't worth the stress to the rest of the audience', let alone all the account selling, deranking trolling bullshit that it lead to.

Do I want to see a 1-50 ranking system back in some form? Yes. But it needs to take into account a lot more stats (ie, if you go -4 but you have 20 goddamn assists, or 3 flag captures, or hell, DROVE the guy who had three flag captures, give the man a boost, not a derank) than wins/losses and/or K/D.

Honestly, I'd like to see a system where the rank beside your gamertag is locked at whatever the highest rank you've achieved in that playlist is, while the behind the scenes rank took both rank ups and rank downs into account. That could basically clue in people that they have a deranker in their midst, if they have a guy with a 45 next to their name playing with 10s. It would also alleviate a lot of the stress that people had obsessing over a goddamn number next to their name.

Let people have that mark on their public record that says 'this is where I was on my best day, and maybe I took a break from the game, or maybe everybody has caught up to me, but clearly I'm still worth paying attention to in this match'. Then let the background action ensure that they're matched up with people that are currently in their wheelhouse.
 
I actually enjoy Infinity slayer in the same way that I enjoy Mario Kart. Some craziness and randomness can be fun, but it shouldn't be what the primary Halo playlists/games are designed around.

The Anniversary playlist was some of the best Halo I have played since Halo 3, maybe even Halo 2. Of course they deleted the playlist for no reason, even though it had a healthy population.
 
I actually enjoy Infinity slayer in the same way that I enjoy Mario Kart. Some craziness and randomness can be fun, but it shouldn't be what the primary Halo playlists/games are designed around.

The Anniversary playlist was some of the best Halo I have played since Halo 3, maybe even Halo 2. Of course they deleted the playlist for no reason, even though it had a healthy population.

infinity slayer is awesome*

*if it is in action sack
 
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But they outbungied bungie.

This is so much bullshit. 343 was given one of the best and most popular franchises in gaming history, and they outdid the CREATORS of it? Give 343 a clean slate with the ability to make any game they want and see if it even comes close to Halo.

And people wonder why we don't take Ryan seriously.
 
Of course Halo 3 beat Halo 4 that week, the game was free.

If Microsoft gave out Call of Duty 4 for free I'm sure it would outrank at least one of the other CoD games on Major Nelson's chart.

I love Halo 3, but will the population surge last? I doubt it.

I love Halo 3 as well but the game is dead already, you can barely find a match in but a few playlists. Halo 4 isn't that much better as once you have a full party you're sort of stuck with a few playlists due to populations and actually just finding a game to play. Of course playing from Aus and the times we play doesn't help in either game.

Also I really can't stand the non-hitscan Halo 3 weapons, playing again last night just cements how fucking terrible the netcode in that game really is. USA host guys in our party go 10k 20d then Aussie host and we all go 20k 5d. Bring on dedis already.

It's really nice to see the love for any Halo game again though, well done Halo 3 and community reaching #11.
 
Of course Halo 3 beat Halo 4 that week, the game was free.

If Microsoft gave out Call of Duty 4 for free I'm sure it would outrank at least one of the other CoD games on Major Nelson's chart.

I love Halo 3, but will the population surge last? I doubt it.

Halo 3 went free 12 days prior. If anything the numbers in the days prior were even higher. It being in number 11 spot 12 days later demonstrates some kind of staying power. As for the duration of this surge, Halo 3 is not getting a chance to be free and available for a even a month without huge new shooters and a new CONSOLE dropping. So of course it won't be staying up there long. That's totally obvious.
 
I actually enjoy Infinity slayer in the same way that I enjoy Mario Kart. Some craziness and randomness can be fun, but it shouldn't be what the primary Halo playlists/games are designed around.

The Anniversary playlist was some of the best Halo I have played since Halo 3, maybe even Halo 2. Of course they deleted the playlist for no reason, even though it had a healthy population.

Wait...the anniversary playlist is gone?

Why?
 
As long as we continue to have stuff like a perk locked away under a $10 paywall, I won't believe they've learnt a thing.
 
I think GloveSlap might be talking about the anniversary playlist for Halo 4 that 343 put up yesterday. Maybe? I sold my copy of Halo 4, so I don't know. I can confirm that Anniversary Slayer still exists on Halo Reach, though.
 
I think GloveSlap might be talking about the anniversary playlist for Halo 4 that 343 put up yesterday. Maybe? I sold my copy of Halo 4, so I don't know. I can confirm that Anniversary Slayer still exists on Halo Reach, though.

I was thinking of Anniversary BTB as stated in the post above. I loved that playlist, Headlong and Timberland were so good. It pissed me off that they removed half of what was already a paltry alternative to a full online Halo 1 remake.
 
I was thinking of Anniversary BTB as stated in the post above. I loved that playlist, Headlong and Timberland were so good. It pissed me off that they removed half of what was already a paltry alternative to a full online Halo 1 remake.

Just think about Halo 1 gameplay on a map like Headlong. Let the thoughts guide you to fields of happiness.
 
What's bullshit?

The #'s, report or the fact that the community would support H3 over 4?
Numbers. Just barely beating 4? Yeah I don't believe it. Should be much higher considering it was free for the second half of the month and AC4 just came out.
 
Yupe , derank need to come back . It's too boring owning high level guy while being low level myself due to less playing time . In essence , less COD , more Halo please .
 
Halo brand showed its weakness with Halo 3. First time it was vulnerable. COD4 came out and all of the sudden people were questioning whether Halo's days of dominance was over. And it was. If COD4 went up against Halo 2 back in the day it would have been crushed. You would have to be on drugs to play COD4 over Halo 2. But Halo 3 was not a good Halo game. This gave COD the chance to take the audience away. It was at that point that Halo games lost the formula to make a good Halo game. Overpowered vehicles. Equipment. Screwed around with assault. Crap like Forge. And then Reach continued with the Halo 3 formula. And now Halo is where it is today. Playing second fiddle to stuff like Minecraft and Assassin's Creed.

343 needs to take the game back to its roots. Use Halo 2 as the framework.
 
Halo brand showed its weakness with Halo 3. First time it was vulnerable. COD4 came out and all of the sudden people were questioning whether Halo's days of dominance was over. And it was. If COD4 went up against Halo 2 back in the day it would have been crushed. You would have to be on drugs to play COD4 over Halo 2. But Halo 3 was not a good Halo game. This gave COD the chance to take the audience away. It was at that point that Halo games lost the formula to make a good Halo game. Overpowered vehicles. Equipment. Screwed around with assault. Crap like Forge. And then Reach continued with the Halo 3 formula. And now Halo is where it is today. Playing second fiddle to stuff like Minecraft and Assassin's Creed.

343 needs to take the game back to its roots. Use Halo 2 as the framework.

Halo 3 had the largest community and longest legs of any Halo game. And the bold is very, very rose tinted glasses.
 
Halo brand showed its weakness with Halo 3. First time it was vulnerable. COD4 came out and all of the sudden people were questioning whether Halo's days of dominance was over. And it was. If COD4 went up against Halo 2 back in the day it would have been crushed. You would have to be on drugs to play COD4 over Halo 2. But Halo 3 was not a good Halo game. This gave COD the chance to take the audience away. It was at that point that Halo games lost the formula to make a good Halo game. Overpowered vehicles. Equipment. Screwed around with assault. Crap like Forge. And then Reach continued with the Halo 3 formula. And now Halo is where it is today. Playing second fiddle to stuff like Minecraft and Assassin's Creed.

343 needs to take the game back to its roots. Use Halo 2 as the framework.

Well this is just a silly statement. You can't really be serious....?

I'm as burned out and disinterested in the COD franchise as the next guy, but COD4 was an amazing shooter. And it was also - at the time - an incredibly innovative shooter, by adding continuity between matches through the EXP and unlocks. Suddenly what you did in one match meant something to the next match and the one after it. That was kind of a big shift in multiplayer thinking.

I don't know which would 'win' as far as audience if COD4 had been released at that time, only because the Halo brand was at the absolute height of it's power. It was still a fresh, new and exciting franchise at that time. Halo 3 was a great game, but it was coming out into a marketplace that had been mainlining Halo for 6 years due to lack of real competition in the genre on Xbox Live. Lots of people were going to be ready for something new regardless, and even then, it took 2 years after the release of COD4 for the majority of Xbox Live to migrate to 'the next big thing' definitively.

Also some quick hits:

-I fail to see how equipment disrupted or weakened the Halo gameplay model any more than power-ups like Overshield or Camo did. They were available on the map, for players to fight over, and they were one-time use. They're essentially the exact same thing as powerups, only players could decide when to use them instead of taking immediate effect automatically.

-Vehicles were boosted in Halo 3 as a direct response to people complaining that they were essentially death-traps in Halo 2. Easy to destroy with pretty much anything, especially goddamn lock-on rockets.

- What the hell was wrong with Forge? It didn't affect ranked matchmaking in the slightest until the very end of Halo 3's lifecycle, and before that it was utterly fantastic for social games or customs. Forge is an awesome part of Halo, and being absent from Halo 4 was a huge knock against the game.

Halo 3 was a fantastic Halo. Arguably the best of the series for MP. Certainly my favorite by a wide margin.
 
Uh so many chartz, discussion and nobody notices elephant in room.

Each halo after 3 has smaller community because of COD4. When H3 hit COD was new game for many people and this is why H3 still got community. Things started to change when most of dudebros jumped from Halo to COD later.

Halo was dudebro shooter before COD4. They can't make back community because community don't like "shooting aliens with toy guns". They want one shoot kills, realistic weapons... in summary COD or BF.

Nothing gone wrong with Halo4. People just bought it for "Oh shit new HALO ! I remember playing it a lot !" and after few days: "Ughh it is not COD i will back to COD now"

Now alienating hardcore community is real thing but hardcore community doesn't make whole community and hardcore community will be dying without new members from casual audience changing themselves into hardcore gamers to fill holes from old people not playing halo anymore.

Even if HALO5 will be best HALO it won't have same community as HALO3. Unless there will be again some HALO5 gameplay bomb that will move COD players to HALO.
 
Uh so many chartz, discussion and nobody notices elephant in room.

Each halo after 3 has smaller community because of COD4. When H3 hit COD was new game for many people and this is why H3 still got community. Things started to change when most of dudebros jumped from Halo to COD later.

Halo was dudebro shooter before COD4. They can't make back community because community don't like "shooting aliens with toy guns". They want one shoot kills, realistic weapons... in summary COD or BF.

Nothing gone wrong with Halo4. People just bought it for "Oh shit new HALO ! I remember playing it a lot !" and after few days: "Ughh it is not COD i will back to COD now"

Now alienating hardcore community is real thing but hardcore community doesn't make whole community and hardcore community will be dying without new members from casual audience changing themselves into hardcore gamers to fill holes from old people not playing halo anymore.

Even if HALO5 will be best HALO it won't have same community as HALO3. Unless there will be again some HALO5 gameplay bomb that will move COD players to HALO.

People can play both. Communities can overlap. Minds can be blown.
 
Uh so many chartz, discussion and nobody notices elephant in room.

Each halo after 3 has smaller community because of COD4. When H3 hit COD was new game for many people and this is why H3 still got community. Things started to change when most of dudebros jumped from Halo to COD later.

Halo was dudebro shooter before COD4. They can't make back community because community don't like "shooting aliens with toy guns". They want one shoot kills, realistic weapons... in summary COD or BF.

Nothing gone wrong with Halo4. People just bought it for "Oh shit new HALO ! I remember playing it a lot !" and after few days: "Ughh it is not COD i will back to COD now"

Now alienating hardcore community is real thing but hardcore community doesn't make whole community and hardcore community will be dying without new members from casual audience changing themselves into hardcore gamers to fill holes from old people not playing halo anymore.

Even if HALO5 will be best HALO it won't have same community as HALO3. Unless there will be again some HALO5 gameplay bomb that will move COD players to HALO.

There is some truth to what you are saying, but the presence of COD doesn't explain the speed and intensity of the drop-off in the community for Halo 4.

The presence of COD was a constant since the release of Halo 3. But from 2007 through 2009, Halo 3 kept pace at the top of the charts.

Reach certainly suffered a bit as a result of going toe-to-toe with an established HUGE MW2 scene and the release of the original Black Ops - that was arguably the point in time where the COD franchise was at the peak of it's popularity and cultural relevance.

But it still stayed at 2 or 3 on the chart for the entirety of it's life-cycle.

Halo 4 dropped off the map in a fraction of the time. Those numbers don't just speak to a preference for COD, they speak to an aversion to what Halo 4 brought to the table.

I do agree with your final thought however. No matter how perfect Halo 5 is, no matter how much it does everything perfectly in the eyes of the people in this thread, it probably won't overtake COD (or, for that matter, the shooter that DOES end up taking the crown from COD, whatever that might be).

The Halo franchise's time at the center of the gaming universe has almost certainly passed, and it's not coming back. That said, there's no reason a great Halo can't re-establish a significant user-base.
 
Yeah. Halo 3 put up a good fight against Call of Duty for years, losing and regaining the number 1 spot constantly. Anything out of the top 5 most played list is pretty embarrassing for current Halo title, especially after just a year. 12th place is holy shit bad.

One of the most damning things I can say about Halo 4 is that it feels like the game has been out for a lot longer than a year. It reflects the lack of depth in the game and the lackluster maps. It got old really fast.
 
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