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Halo 4 |OT| Spartans Never Die

DesertFox

Member
I have a lot of issues about the combat that I want to talk about, but the one that's bugging me the most right now: clarity.

In past Halo games, the different ranks within the classes of enemies were crystal clear. I'm going to use Reach as an example, both because it excelled in this area and because it was the most recent Halo game.

The different ranks of Elites and the weapons they carried were very easy to distinguish, and quickly, in Reach. Elite Generals were bright gold, the jetpack dudes had a unique profile and the jetpacks gave off a pronounced audio cue that they were nearby. Regular Elites in red stood out from the crowd. Elite Ultras dropped in with their bright white/silver armor and cleaned house. And so on - different ranks of the same class, easy to distinguish and then respond to their different behaviors and capabilities. I knew I could take down a jetpack Elite with four shots to shield and a headshot, a regular Elite, seven DMR rounds.

I could also tell exactly what weapon they were carrying at all times. Even from long range, the profile of an Elite with a Concussion Rifle versus a Plasma Repeater versus a FRG were totally distinct and instantly recognizable.

I'm saying this because I have a very hard time telling these things apart in Halo 4. Sometimes it takes a few shots to strip shields off an Elite, sometimes much more. Sometimes get surprised with they tag me with an FRG, because I couldn't make out that they had one. Visually, I have no idea how to distinguish the classes. The colors all look pretty similar, so I can't tell if one is greater threat than another. I treat all of them the same, and sometimes get surprised.

So there's a real lack of clarity here. With Reach I'd respond rapidly to different threats. The classes of Elites carry different weapons, move at different speeds, and have various levels of health and shielding. I would identify that and respond quickly, swapping weapons, taking up different vantage points (and in the case of packs of Elite Ultras, running like hell). That meant there was a lot of variety to the combat - I was constantly changing up tactics moment to moment, in ways large and small, to account for what was on the battlefield.

I don't do that with Halo 4,because there's a lack of visual variety. Because I can't make out the various threats and capability levels, combat feels very flat and plodding. (Other factors contribute to this, but that's for another wall of text.)

Some of this may be because the game is new and I'm still learning them. But even with concerted effort, I'm still not able to figure this stuff out because the visuals just don't pop enough to communicate the threat levels correctly. It really takes away from the game.

Sorry to bump this from several pages ago, but I 100% echo this sentiment and feel that it bears repeating. Hopefully 343 fixes this problem going forward with future games because I find this extremely frustrating with the combat in Halo 4.

Also to add - Changing lines of orange or adding spikes to a Knight does not adequately distinguish them from lower classes of Knights. At distance, it's almost impossible to tell how strong a Knight might be - adding to this sense of a lack of clarity in combat.
 

Spirit3

Member
By no means do I dislike this entry into the Halo series however as everyone seems inclined to pick either Ragnorok and Haven EVERY SINGLE TIME despite playing those maps X amount of times before I am done with this game.

Map voting is stupid, create a better range of playlists with alternating maps.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Halo is BTB to a lot of people. I know it is for me.

Indeed. BTB is Halo, Halo is BTB, at least for me.
You remove BTB, you remove vehicles from Halo and it is no longer Halo.
No other game has such a good integration of vehicles and infantry, not Battlefield, not Planetside 2, nothing does it like Halo.
Of course after Reach vehicles are fucked up by shitty health system. At least give us a health meter. Or even better, regenerating health. Or shields for vehicles like Mantis has.

EDIT how does Invincible vehicles work in Halo 4? In Reach the option was broken, you couldn't kill the vehicle crews which made them too invincible... Need Halo CE like vehicles, indestructible but able to kill their crew.
 

DocSeuss

Member
I found the game to be very enjoyable, but I have some complaints.

There were literally no surprises - apart from story - in the game.
We had seen every enemy and every weapon before. No surprising enemy types for instance.
Sure, they kept some of the locations secret, but everything else was wide open several months from launch.

I have also concluded that the prometheans aren't that fun to fight,they're okay, but nothing more.

I feel like the amount of information they gave us was great, but the amount of things they kept from us was not nearly enough. They should have had more content that audiences weren't expecting.
 

Snowdrift

Member
I'll echo the map voting sentiments. There needs to be some sort of system that prevents the same map from being played two times in a row for those of us that don't back out of a lobby.

Part of the problem is that there are a lot of mediocre maps.
 
It is fun. Or would be, if i got to play something else than Ragnarok and the DMR didn't dominate everythign and the vehicles weren't paper-thin.

Can't really get to drive vehicles on any other list, so i'm quite limited to BTB.
Halo 3 had a nice amount of maps that are small (8-12 people maps) with vehicles as well... No non-BTB map has vehicles in Reach or in Halo 4 (not counting Complex but that map is a mess).

No yeah, I love it, I'm just surprised.

BTB has always been popular... Couple that with the fact that it's only Slayer and second from the top, it's easy to see why it has a lot of players.

Really? Whenever I played 3 and Reach it never seemed to be that populated compared to the rest of the playlists.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
hope we get some 4v4 vehicle maps and small (<= heaven) maps for the first DLC. wonder how long we have to wait for deets
 

tigerin

Member
are there some kind of "extra armor" perk? i swear it takes me two shotgun shots or grenade to kill someone but it only take them one to kill me.

and are there any good automatic gun in this game? currently using the assault rifle and suppressor, they both are like bb guns. takes me nearly two rounds to kill someone.
 

def sim

Member
are there some kind of "extra armor" perk? i swear it takes me two shotgun shots or grenade to kill someone but it only take them one to kill me.

and are there any good automatic gun in this game? currently using the assault rifle and suppressor, they both are like bb guns. takes me nearly two rounds to kill someone.

They're actually pretty good, to the point where people want them nerfed!
 

Woorloog

Banned
are there some kind of "extra armor" perk? i swear it takes me two shotgun shots or grenade to kill someone but it only take them one to kill me.

and are there any good automatic gun in this game? currently using the assault rifle and suppressor, they both are like bb guns. takes me nearly two rounds to kill someone.

The AR is a good all around automatic weapon. The Suppressor is very good at close range, and the Storm Rifle is very powerful but inaccurate and can't shoot for very long.
Overall the AR is the best, i think, though the latter two can kill faster but only from shorter range. EDIT and any of these shouldn't be nerfed, they're very limited as they're, pretty much fine as they're.
No armor perk, you just don't hit fully.
 

tigerin

Member
The AR is a good all around automatic weapon. The Suppressor is very good at close range, and the Storm Rifle is very powerful but inaccurate and can't shoot for very long.
Overall the AR is the best, i think, though the latter two can kill faster but only from shorter range.
No armor perk, you just don't hit fully.

i checked the killcam and the guy seems to shoot at my body, i would understand if it the head. plus there were a few times where it was atleast 10 feet away. c'mon, a shotgun/scattershot that killed someone 10 feet away with full armor?
 

Woorloog

Banned
i checked the killcam and the guy seems to shoot at my body, i would understand if it the head. plus there were a few times where it was atleast 10 feet away. c'mon, a shotgun/scattershot that killed someone 10 feet away with full armor?

AR cannot do a headshot. And the killcams are broken at the moment.

EDIT only weapons that can score a headshot are: Binary Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Beam Rifle, Magnum, Boltshot (normal shot), DMR, BR, Carbine, Lightrifle.
 

ace3skoot

Member
Just finished SP, and I have no fucking idea what the hell just happened in the last 10 minutes?!

overall i enjoyed the campaign and it looks really pretty but the final sequence was a bit of a let down.

really enjoying the pace of multiplayer so far, is there going to be a griftball playlist?
 

def sim

Member
the assault rifle? most of the time i'm the only one using it. everyone else use DMR or battle rifle.

Though, to be clear, they want the automatic weapons nerfed because they felt it doesn't take skill.

They're better than before and work well enough for what they are, I feel. Precision weapons should still beat them out provided the firefight isn't in an enclosed space and the player isn't panicking.
 
Just got kicked from zombies for betrayals, but it was because players were getting killed in the geometry inside walls on that certain map :| not cool bro
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
speaking of betrayals.... the game better be tracking and punishing those that regularly betray with vehicles. since thats virtually the only way to do it and it should be extremely rare to occur on accident, i hope the ban hammer is swift with it. frankles pls.
 

meppi

Member
speaking of betrayals.... the game better be tracking and punishing those that regularly betray with vehicles. since thats virtually the only way to do it and it should be extremely rare to occur on accident, i hope the ban hammer is swift with it. frankles pls.

Not to mention friendly fire being used a lot to drain a shield of a mantis when some random retard on your team feels that he is entitled to the mech instead of you. :mad:
 

Woorloog

Banned
i just don't like jamming my RT button and prefer to just simply press and hold it.

Then you need to learn to use AR tactically. Positioning, knowing when to attack, use grenades... you're going to be limited to smaller maps though. Ultimately everyone using semi-autos is going to perform better than you though.
Or maybe Halo is not for you, the series has been always about precision weapons, too much so IMO.
 
the DMR needs a slight no scoped penalty to stop it being too good in close quaters, maybe give it more bloom when not scoped so the br has a slight edge inside that range? dunno. or slow down the shots.

both weapons may kill in 1.6 seconds but when one is more amazing to aim then the other and pinpoint accurate which one do you think wins?
 

Woorloog

Banned
the BR needs a slight no scoped penalty to stop it being too good in close quaters, maybe give it more bloom when not scoped so the br has a slight edge inside that range? dunno. or slow down the shots.

both weapons may kill in 1.6 seconds but when one is more amazing to aim then the other and pinpoint accurate which one do you think wins?

The BR is kinda pointless as it is, and you want to nerf it? The DMR can do everything BR can and does it better.
If anything, the BR needs a buff: remove either recoil or spread.
And the BR's intended role is short-mid range combat, the problem is, it is worthless at mid-range and the DMR is good at short range as well...

The automatics are good as they're in close quarters, if you're thinking the BR is too good vs these.
 

tigerin

Member
Then you need to learn to use AR tactically. Positioning, knowing when to attack, use grenades... you're going to be limited to smaller maps though. Ultimately everyone using semi-autos is going to perform better than you though.
Or maybe Halo is not for you, the series has been always about precision weapons, too much so IMO.

i didn't had a problem with halo 3 and reach tho.
 

alterno69

Banned
Yeah these maps, they're making me thirsty :(

I mean, they suuuck, other than ragnarok i don't like any of the other maps, maybe the brown one with caves and stuff(i'm sorry i'm terrible at remembering map names in multiplayer games). Also since i only play BTB it feels like the're only three maps to play and it gets boring fast. I also don't like the lack of weapon variety, everyone has the same loadout 80% of the time, the rest of the weapons are useless.

I really like the multiplayer mechanics, it's just that everything else gets old fast.
 
The BR isn't as bad as some people say (you can still peg people from long distance), but it's so much more fun to use than the DMR. Maybe because it reminds me of my Halo 2 days.
 

Beaulieu

Member
Yeah these maps, they're making me thirsty :(

I mean, they suuuck, other than ragnarok i don't like any of the other maps, maybe the brown one with caves and stuff(i'm sorry i'm terrible at remembering map names in multiplayer games). Also since i only play BTB it feels like the're only three maps to play and it gets boring fast. I also don't like the lack of weapon variety, everyone has the same loadout 80% of the time, the rest of the weapons are useless.

I really like the multiplayer mechanics, it's just that everything else gets old fast.

game gets old and is repetitive fast
playing only 1 of the numerous playlists

you realize your complaints make no fuckin sense ?
 
The BR is kinda pointless as it is, and you want to nerf it? The DMR can do everything BR can and does it better.
If anything, the BR needs a buff: remove either recoil or spread.
And the BR's intended role is short-mid range combat, the problem is, it is worthless at mid-range and the DMR is good at short range as well...

The automatics are good as they're in close quarters, if you're thinking the BR is too good vs these.

sorry i meant DMR

It's just too good in all situations as it stands IMO
 

vatstep

This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
The BR isn't as bad as some people say (you can still peg people from long distance), but it's so much more fun to use than the DMR. Maybe because it reminds me of my Halo 2 days.
It is more fun to use. I guess it's just refreshing to have it back after Reach. The DMR is clearly the best all-around weapon, but it's just a shame that it's so bland.
 

Red

Member
Spops is boring, but at least the fights are decently sized. Cutscenes were a nice surprise... Very well done. Firefight is sorely missed.
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
Yeah these maps, they're making me thirsty :(

I mean, they suuuck, other than ragnarok i don't like any of the other maps, maybe the brown one with caves and stuff(i'm sorry i'm terrible at remembering map names in multiplayer games). Also since i only play BTB it feels like the're only three maps to play and it gets boring fast. I also don't like the lack of weapon variety, everyone has the same loadout 80% of the time, the rest of the weapons are useless.

I really like the multiplayer mechanics, it's just that everything else gets old fast.

game gets old and is repetitive fast
playing only 1 of the numerous playlists

you realize your complaints make no fuckin sense ?




There just aren't enough maps in this game. This is exacerbated because the map voting allows you to vote for three maps and that means a lot of the time the map you just finished playing is included in the voting. Hence you can find yourself playing RAGNAROK or HAVEN several times in a row because apparently there are people who enjoy playing the same map over and over again.
 

alterno69

Banned
game gets old and is repetitive fast
playing only 1 of the numerous playlists

you realize your complaints make no fuckin sense ?
I can play COD team deathmatch only for days and don't get bored, tons of maps and loadouts to try. Here, three maps and a couple of different loadouts since de DRM is so superior to the rest of the weapons and everyone uses it. Like i said, the game itself, the mechanics of it all are great but the maps especially are not very good and the voting system has to go.
 

S1kkZ

Member
Spops is boring, but at least the fights are decently sized. Cutscenes were a nice surprise... Very well done. Firefight is sorely missed.

spops has a lot of potential, but the weekly schedule holds it back. there is now way they can deliver new levels/ares with good (and balanced/tested) enemy placement while telling a nice story.

i hope it returns in halo 5 with a lot of changes (skulls for example) or they change stuff for season 2.
 

kidko

Member
I feel like BR has some crazy suppression. Maybe it's just coincidence, but every time I'm getting shot by that thing, my screen is all lit up and hard to see through
 
speaking of betrayals.... the game better be tracking and punishing those that regularly betray with vehicles. since thats virtually the only way to do it and it should be extremely rare to occur on accident, i hope the ban hammer is swift with it. frankles pls.

Hey man, how are those headphones handling Halo 4? :]
 

Red

Member
spops has a lot of potential, but the weekly schedule holds it back. there is now way they can deliver new levels/ares with good (and balanced/tested) enemy placement while telling a nice story.

i hope it returns in halo 5 with a lot of changes (skulls for example) or they change stuff for season 2.
I agree. I was most excited for spops over everything else. It's not bad but it feels underdeveloped.
 
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