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Halo 4 |OT2| TURBO

Madness

Member
That's very true.

And I agree, the game doesn't have to be made easier to play for players of all skill levels to enjoy it.

I think that's why Halo 3 was so tolerable. Once you got above 40, you rarely played with people who would be terrible or do dumb stuff. Proper matchmaking, especially ranked just works.

Though in regards to skill gap, reading the thread on what made Call of Duty successful, almost everyone agreed it was their low skill gap, carrot on a stick progression and hand holding and feeling that they are doing great.

Let's be honest, the majority of people at 343 play like BK's. You have them openly championing camo and boltshots in hallways.

Halo 5 needs to be a game that is easy to play, but hard to master. Despite what people say, it was pretty tough to 3sk people with pistols all the time in CE. Plus the fast movement and strafe meant that you had better defensive chances to avoid dying as well.
 

Booshka

Member
I think that's why Halo 3 was so tolerable. Once you got above 40, you rarely played with people who would be terrible or do dumb stuff. Proper matchmaking, especially ranked just works.

Though in regards to skill gap, reading the thread on what made Call of Duty successful, almost everyone agreed it was their low skill gap, carrot on a stick progression and hand holding and feeling that they are doing great.

Let's be honest, the majority of people at 343 play like BK's. You have them openly championing camo and boltshots in hallways.

Halo 5 needs to be a game that is easy to play, but hard to master. Despite what people say, it was pretty tough to 3sk people with pistols all the time in CE. Plus the fast movement and strafe meant that you had better defensive chances to avoid dying as well.

You don't have to be amazing at the game you are designing to be a good designer. Knowing what bad, average, good and pro level players will be able to do with the game mechanics you design is necessary though. Something the Halo franchise has had trouble with since Halo 2 apparently.

EDIT: Halo CE actually, Halo 2 only became decent 8 months after release with the major patch.
 
Serebii.net has virtually every Pokemon sprite in existence available as an avatar. Might have something to do with it.

Maybe, but like Orichinahis said, it's Charmander's picture for when he's speaking from Mystery Dungeon. Pretty weird that someone else is using it, I made it myself. Maybe I'll go back to the angry version.

dtxf1.jpg
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Thinking about doing an impromptu podcast...right now. Anyone wanna join in for a bit? I'd like to not get it started alone if I could do that haha
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Oops, I totally forgot to get on, sorry! This heat has been fuckin with my head. I still <343 you.

Nah I think by the time you had been ready, I said fuck it anyway. I asked a few people on Skype but got no response. Sunday night's a big TV show night, totally forgot.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
I'll bet my free version of Halo 3 that it's anything involving Settler, because it's the BTB equivalent of The Cage.

Settler is muuuuch better than the cage. It definitely has its problems but the Cage is like an all time bad Halo map.
 

Risen

Member
I'll bet my free version of Halo 3 that it's anything involving Settler, because it's the BTB equivalent of The Cage.

I hear the hate from a ton of friends but I find it fun. I'd compare the way it plays as being a bit like Isolation in H3 (also one in which a ton of people complained and I enjoyed - those 65+ team assist games).

Sure they have their quirks, but I enjoy playing on both. I enjoy maps that have a natural power point to fight over and control, that really reward solid sets and team work, especially if there are equitable spawns with the same access to the control point.

It sure as shit isn't as bad as The Cage.
 

Striker

Member
I hear the hate from a ton of friends but I find it fun. I'd compare the way it plays as being a bit like Isolation in H3 (also one in which a ton of people complained and I enjoyed - those 65+ team assist games).

Sure they have their quirks, but I enjoy playing on both. I enjoy maps that have a natural power point to fight over and control, that really reward solid sets and team work, especially if there are equitable spawns with the same access to the control point.
THKaXPT.jpg


Better than both of those.
 

Risen

Member
THKaXPT.jpg


Better than both of those.

Colossus is definitely the style of map I was talking about...

but the commentary I was responding to wasn't "rank the Halo maps", it was the hate and comparison of Settler to The Cage.

They just aren't the same level of map design as demonstrated by the horrid flow in The Cage, the completely unbalanced initial spawns, the locking people into open hallways to traverse the map, the initial offering having only two ways to get from one side to the other, etc. etc.
 
Settler is muuuuch better than the cage. It definitely has its problems but the Cage is like an all time bad Halo map.

It sure as shit isn't as bad as The Cage.

Another knock on The Cage as compared to Settler: The Cage plays poorly across all skill levels whereas Settler plays like a regular Halo map when the matchup is bad kids vs. bad kids. This comes down to the difference between generally crappy map design and unfair map design.
 
Do you think Settler gets votes more (and it does in my experience) because it's easy to spawn-kill ( especially the cave side base) and camo-snipe, or because it offers a better variety in gameplay?

My snarky comment was more to the REASON people are picking the map (easy to exploit), rather than the game play being similar.
 
Do you think Settler gets votes more (and it does in my experience) because it's easy to spawn-kill ( especially the cave side base) and camo-snipe, or because it offers a better variety in gameplay?

My snarky comment was more to the REASON people are picking the map (easy to exploit), rather than the game play being similar.

For the general Halo population, I think it boils down to simplicity. There is an easy-to-see big, dumb power weapon in the middle of the map for people to fight over. There are warhogs off spawn to dick around in. And there is an obvious strong point to try to take and hold (the rail gun spawn).
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Might be best to remove Railgun from up on the ledge. I'm not sure that that power position needs anymore reason for people to go up there. Worth testing out at least.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Might be best to remove Railgun from up on the ledge. I'm not sure that that power position needs anymore reason for people to go up there. Worth testing out at least.

Just fill the ledge with as many fusion coils as forge allows. At least then it's a death trap to go up there.
 

Risen

Member
Do you think Settler gets votes more (and it does in my experience) because it's easy to spawn-kill ( especially the cave side base) and camo-snipe, or because it offers a better variety in gameplay?

My snarky comment was more to the REASON people are picking the map (easy to exploit), rather than the game play being similar.

I think both you and Bregman are on to reasons people pick it... variety and simplicity both. I also think it offers Halo game play that many people enjoyed historically... static sets. H2 on most maps, was best played from a static set - you controlled points on the map as a team and movement was mostly to and from those spots in a constant attack/defend tug of war. In H3, Reach, and H4 maps increasingly reward moving as a team with constant aggression. After H2, spawns are forced until they move, and a team must move together to keep the other team on spawn after the base area moves. (general statement)

People that are not highly skilled have trouble with that, as do people that are locked into a play style and cannot change. I also think people love to just "dong" and hate getting "donged on", so you get very polar reactions to maps like Isolation and Settler. Those who play with groups who know what to do, set up, lock people down, and don't let the other team breathe... those who don't, have it done to them in unequal skill matches.

I definitely think there should not be a power weapon in power positions. The positions are all the incentive people need to be there. Power weapons should be elsewhere as an incentive for teams set in the power position to move, and as an option for folks on spawn to attack the power position if they gain control.

Take the rail gun off the hill and place something mid map, or place an opposing power weapon that makes sense in the building on the open side of the map. Better yet, move the rail gun off the ridge to the middle and place a snipe in each base on a static spawn.
 
Might be best to remove Railgun from up on the ledge. I'm not sure that that power position needs anymore reason for people to go up there. Worth testing out at least.

Take the rail gun off the hill and place something mid map, or place an opposing power weapon that makes sense in the building on the open side of the map. Better yet, move the rail gun off the ridge to the middle and place a snipe in each base on a static spawn.

As far as BTB is concerned, I think some work could be done on the shotgun spawn area. The shotgun itself is relatively useless on the map outside of CTF. I wouldn't mind testing a version that had rail gun at the shotgun spawn and static snipers at each base. Am I weird for liking the fact that the Incinerator doesn't spawn at the start?
 
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