Halo 5: Guardians Beta Thread | Hot Red on Blue Action

mcfrank said:
I don't disagree. But if I go +10 in a game we lose by 2, then maybe I lose a point or 2 and the guy who went - 18 loses 30. We are on the same page. You should not rank up by losing or rank down by winning.
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+1 on that.

If a win can only mean +4 (has happened) and a loss mean -26 (has happened), then maybe you need to match-make me with a group for which it won't be such a grand upset if we win or lose?

And as you said, I can't be responsible for the guy who yolo's his way to 3/25 (that just happened). He's his own man and if he wants to perpetually feed, I can't do shit about it. Why do I (or the other 2 people who weren't feeding) get the same (or maybe even more) negative points against for being on top of the team in every category? Hit me with -5. Don't give me the -20+ bullshit.

I don't see the logic and I hope they address this in the final product.
 
Anyone who cares that much about rank should seek a team. I've said this countless times in the community thread, you're posting on NeoGAF. There's zero reason that you have to play alone.

Counting wins/losses is absolutely the right way to handle it. They're going for a competitive e-sports vibe, and the only thing that matters in sports is the W.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
If a win can only mean +4 (has happened) and a loss mean -26 (has happened), then maybe you need to match-make me with a group for which it won't be such a grand upset if we win or lose?
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What if there are not enough players at your rank searching at that moment? Would you rather not play at all or have a match that might be lobsided? The user base isn't amazingly huge especially during the beta so in order to put you into games at a somewhat decent speed sometimes you are going to play with and against people above/below your rank.

The ideal scenario is to have 8 equally skilled players all in the same region/datacenter but that's not going to happen all the time. Sometimes you'll have to shift datacenters and might experience lag. Other times teams may be unbalanced. It happens in every game.
 
A-One said:
Everyone would stop playing it competitively if it was individually ranked...honestly. Everyone tries to be Rambo and brag about their KDR while losing the game by 20 points.

Teamwork requires skill, knowing how to play together is crucial and something most modern day FPS fans don't use. Part of the reason is because they don't use a mic...I don't blame many people on this because I do the same. The older I get the less I want to communicate with people online due to them being or acting like kids.

Regardless, that's my fault...even if I go 30 and 0 on TEAM Slayer and lose the game due to my teammates, then part of me deserves it. After all I'm playing TEAM Slayer. No one should rely on matchmaking...never will there be a perfect system that works for everyone.

Just like all sports out there, it's all about the W.

If you're a lone wolf, the game will have separate rankings for separate playlists.
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It doesn't have to be individually based, however the current system completely disregards your personal performance. The Competitive Skill Rating, doesn't take your skill into account. That makes no sense.

I actually quite like the system of "Win = gain points" and "loss = lose points". However I'd rather have your personal performance have an effect on how many points you gain or lose.
 
mcfrank said:
I don't disagree. But if I go +10 in a game we lose by 2, then maybe I lose a point or 2 and the guy who went - 18 loses 30. We are on the same page. You should not rank up by losing or rank down by winning.
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The problem with this is that if your team starts to lose and gets down say, 8 to 10 kills, what incentive is there for players to not just turtle down and hope to lose as few points as possible? It's incredibly easy to how this would become the mentally rather than trying to come back for the win.

Ramirez said:
Anyone who cares that much about rank should seek a team. I've said this countless times in the community thread, you're posting on NeoGAF. There's zero reason that you have to play alone.

Counting wins/losses is absolutely the right way to handle it. They're going for a competitive e-sports vibe, and the only thing that matters in sports is the W.
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Absolutely agree with this.
 
Ramirez said:
Anyone who cares that much about rank should seek a team. I've said this countless times in the community thread, you're posting on NeoGAF. There's zero reason that you have to play alone.

Counting wins/losses is absolutely the right way to handle it. They're going for a competitive e-sports vibe, and the only thing that matters in sports is the W.
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I agree with this but on the flip side of it, stats count a lot in sports. Put up big stats, and you will be idolized and make a lot of money, even if you're on a losing team.
 
Ramirez said:
Anyone who cares that much about rank should seek a team. I've said this countless times in the community thread, you're posting on NeoGAF. There's zero reason that you have to play alone.

Counting wins/losses is absolutely the right way to handle it. They're going for a competitive e-sports vibe, and the only thing that matters in sports is the W.
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If the only thing that matters is the W then why have we all heard of Landon Donovan but not the other players in team USA? Individual performance matters.
 
Biggest-Geek-Ever said:
The problem with this is that if your team starts to lose and gets down say, 8 to 10 kills, what incentive is there for players to not just turtle down and hope to lose as few points as possible? It's incredibly easy to how this would become the mentally rather than trying to come back for the win.

Absolutely agree with this.
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If you are losing by 8-10 maybe you need to turtle down and stop dying?
 
mcfrank said:
If the only thing that matters is the W then why have we all heard of Landon Donovan but not the other players in team USA? Individual performance matters.
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USA soccer....lol

No one wants Reach arena seasons again. At best your position on the scoreboard should lightly adjust points gained/lost based on where you're at but nothing else.
 
With so much discussion being based on poor teammates, do you all have any thoughts about how to improve the play of the random teammates in order to maximize the best chances of winning a given match?

Two quick thoughts for me are:
Communication - enemy locations & weapons, pointing out power weapon spawns and encouraging teammates to battle for key weapons.

Try to persuade the teammates to use the Buddy system ( aka never travel solo ). Maybe even ask them to be my wingman/buddy. This might reduce the number of gun battles the random loses because he has help. This strategy might only be useful to help very low level players.

Thoughts from others?
 
Ramirez said:
Anyone who cares that much about rank should seek a team. I've said this countless times in the community thread, you're posting on NeoGAF. There's zero reason that you have to play alone.

Counting wins/losses is absolutely the right way to handle it. They're going for a competitive e-sports vibe, and the only thing that matters in sports is the W.
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I really do get the impression that many of the posters here aren't playing with a team.

Any gaffers looking for party add me. Gamertag in profile.
 
Just had my favorite game in the beta. Team is down consistently 5 to 6. Finish the game on a 13 streak go 26-6 win 50-47 my the teammates all negative. Put the team on my back doe
 
Ramirez said:
Anyone who cares that much about rank should seek a team. I've said this countless times in the community thread, you're posting on NeoGAF. There's zero reason that you have to play alone.

Counting wins/losses is absolutely the right way to handle it. They're going for a competitive e-sports vibe, and the only thing that matters in sports is the W.
Click to expand...

That makes sense if it's like a season or tournament. But when you're an individual player, playing with randoms, it's dumb to think that the rank you're judged on, is representative of your overall skill when it's not.

It's like, imagine Cristiano Ronaldo was given a 70 ranking in FIFA because Portugal isn't as good a team as Germany and the worst German players are given 90+ rankings solely because they're on the team. I get its Team Slayer and the win matters, but take into account the stats of the losing players, see whether the guy going 21-4 and with killing spree medals, really deserves to go down -17 in a loss because someone he was matched up with went 3-19.

But you're right, the Win should ultimately matter. Josh Menke explained it perfectly as well. If they keep it individual focused, it would mean people would rather let teammates die, clean up or steal kills to pad stats, be an individual player over a team player, sort of like what Reach became. I wish though they fix how important the first ten matches are. It's ridiculous how some play like shit and are given Onyx initially, while others are put in Bronze and Silver when they can hold their own with Onyx and Gold. Maybe they can utilize individual stats for the first ten matches?
 
Madness said:
That makes sense if it's like a season or tournament. But when you're an individual player, playing with randoms, it's dumb to think that the rank you're judged on, is representative of your overall skill when it's not.

It's like, imagine Cristiano Ronaldo was given a 70 ranking in FIFA because Portugal isn't as good a team as Germany and the worst German players are given 90+ rankings solely because they're on the team. I get its Team Slayer and the win matters, but take into account the stats of the losing players, see whether the guy going 21-4 and with killing spree medals, really deserves to go down -17 in a loss because someone he was matched up with went 3-19.

But you're right, the Win should ultimately matter. Josh Menke explained it perfectly as well. If they keep it individual focused, it would mean people would rather let teammates die, clean up or steal kills to pad stats, be an individual player over a team player, sort of like what Reach became. I wish though they fix how important the first ten matches are. It's ridiculous how some play like shit and are given Onyx initially, while others are put in Bronze and Silver when they can hold their own with Onyx and Gold. Maybe they can utilize individual stats for the first ten matches?
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There is no such thing as stealing kills in a team game. Also cleaning up kills is a good thing.
 
mcfrank said:
If you are losing by 8-10 maybe you need to turtle down and stop dying?
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In my experience the only way you're coming back from that kind of deficit is by going for kills with your teammates. If you're thinking about going -2 instead of -15, are you likely to go on the offensive? I doubt it.

And this view is obviously more geared towards the solo players. If you're serious about your competitive rank (which you clearly are), then you need to go in with a team, as has been stated. That's been the case with practically any online shooter to ever come down the pipeline, and really that's from both a competitive and social viewpoint.
 
mcfrank said:
There is no such thing as stealing kills in a team game. Also cleaning up kills is a good thing.
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It's more waiting for your teammate to die while he's taking out shields, while you wait with full health before you jump in. A lot of people would do that in Reach. Sit back, let their teammates take down shields, do damage, before then cleaning up/stealing kills, not really help at all. Obviously it's good that someone on your team got the kill. Was just one example.
 
Defect said:
Apparently the pistol is 5sk with headshot damage.
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wut. I must test this.
mbmonk said:
With so much discussion being based on poor teammates, do you all have any thoughts about how to improve the play of the random teammates in order to maximize the best chances of winning a given match?

Two quick thoughts for me are:
Communication - enemy locations & weapons, pointing out power weapon spawns and encouraging teammates to battle for key weapons.

Try to persuade the teammates to use the Buddy system ( aka never travel solo ). Maybe even ask them to be my wingman/buddy. This might reduce the number of gun battles the random loses because he has help. This strategy might only be useful to help very low level players.

Thoughts from others?
Click to expand...
Look at my avatar. Perhaps if they removed motion tracker, these players would stop chasing red dots in frustration of going so negative in a match. Maybe they'll start thinking about their movement more, planning out their attacks instead of running around aimlessly until they see those red dots to kill kill kill!

Also, no motion tracker allows you to be more effective as an individual player and be more effective for your team, possibly even carrying them since the enemy can't track your every move.
 
mcfrank said:
There is no such thing as stealing kills in a team game. Also cleaning up kills is a good thing.
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"stop stealing my kills" - okay i wont shoot the same guys you're shooting
"how come my teammates aren't helping me?" - okay i'll try to stick with you and help

cycle repeats.
 
I don't get too mad about assists. Halo is best as a team shooting game, with individual feats of greatness. Not to mention I think it's Damn impressive to get double digits dimes.
 
Zoba said:
"stop stealing my kills" - okay i wont shoot the same guys you're shooting
"how come my teammates aren't helping me?" - okay i'll try to stick with you and help

cycle repeats.
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What people are saying was that in Reach you wouldn't help shoot an enemy your teammate was shooting because you wanted to wait until the enemy shields dropped and you cleaned him up.
 
antigoon said:
Pretty sure quinn delhoyo confirmed in a tweet. Can't find it though.
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Confirmed as a bug?



Also cant seem to find a match and got the error saying there might not be enough players in this playlist. wtf?
Jrs3000 said:
Take your time when shooting and try to land 4 in the head before the other person. It takes quite a bit more if shooting in the body with BR 1v1.
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Alt strat: Get the 3 easy body shots, and then one headshot for the fourth will kill
 
Tawpgun said:
What people are saying was that in Reach you wouldn't help shoot an enemy your teammate was shooting because you wanted to wait until the enemy shields dropped and you cleaned him up.
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that's why arena bombed when it was based solely on individual ranking.

i was agreeing with the general kill stealing comment though.
 
Dubz said:
Can we all agree that the energy sword is majorly OP?
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I assume you're talking about the Prophet's Bane. I think the problem is that there was no shotgun on Truth to be a hard counter to it, though the SMG seemed to sometimes work well against it with the head damage bonus.

Edit: If you're talking about the normal sword, the only problems I've had with it are some weird hitbox detection and it once flying out of the hands of the guy I shot dead during a lunge, hitting me and somehow killing me. Presumably that's a bug lol
 
Dubz said:
I agree with this but on the flip side of it, stats count a lot in sports. Put up big stats, and you will be idolized and make a lot of money, even if you're on a losing team.
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Yea, but we're talking about random videogame players, no one here is making money nor being idolized regardless of where they rank, lol.

mcfrank said:
If the only thing that matters is the W then why have we all heard of Landon Donovan but not the other players in team USA? Individual performance matters.
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US Soccer, really?

Dubz said:
Can we all agree that the energy sword is majorly OP?
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I would argue the sword is weaker than it's ever been. You can thrust away from their initial lunge, and if they can't sprint towards you if you're shooting them after they miss. The power weapons in general, aside from a few really good snipers I've played rarely ever have a big effect on the outcome of a match.
 
Ramirez said:
I would argue the sword is weaker than it's ever been. You can thrust away from their initial lunge, and if they can't sprint towards you if you're shooting them after they miss. The power weapons in general, aside from a few really good snipers I've played rarely ever have a big effect on the outcome of a match.
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I think as people begin to get the hang of using thrusters, complaints about so-and-so being OP will decrease. Goes for sword, ground pound, Hydra lock-on, and grenades.
 
RowdyReverb said:
I think as people begin to get the hang of using thrusters, complaints about so-and-so being OP will decrease. Goes for sword, ground pound, Hydra lock-on, and grenades.
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The grenades definitely need a reduced blast radius. I hate how they can lift you off the ground too. I almost feel like these grenades were balanced around the grenade indicator, then that was removed, but the nades were left the same. Would also like to see nade hit detectors gone, it really removes any surprise element someone has in their defense when they get hit. The thrower knows the person is weak and just attacks without penalty.
 
Perhaps a slight delay in the fuse will help. I dont think they want to reduce the damage since thrusters are supposed to negate a lot of it anyway.

I still think the reason people are spamming so many nades are the hit markers. Its an absolutely natural reaction to chuck a second one if your first one gets a hit marker. 2-3 people do it in a corridor and it feels like its raining nades.
 
ebullientprism said:
Perhaps a slight delay in the fuse will help. I dont think they want to reduce the damage since thrusters are supposed to negate a lot of it anyway.

I still think the reason people are spamming so many nades are the hit markers. Its an absolutely natural reaction to chuck a second one if your first one gets a hit marker. 2-3 people do it in a corridor and it feels like its raining nades.
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Yup, you know 99% of people who get a hit on the first nade are immediately throwing their 2nd.
 
Ramirez said:
The grenades definitely need a reduced blast radius. I hate how they can lift you off the ground too. I almost feel like these grenades were balanced around the grenade indicator, then that was removed, but the nades were left the same. Would also like to see nade hit detectors gone, it really removes any surprise element someone has in their defense when they get hit. The thrower knows the person is weak and just attacks without penalty.
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Nades feel random, both damage wise and fuse wise (I throw two grenades in fast succession, the first one explodes immediately while the other one seems to be delayed as hell)

Also:
http://xboxclips.com/Gravemind+IV/514d8a02-e331-4245-a345-314e14fbb5c4

Am I missing out on how to turbo melee like this guy?
 
I'm glad you get an assist medal in-game and they show assists on the scoreboard. It sounds stupid but in other Halo games I'd annoyed when people 'stole' my kills. In this game I don't care at all. Assists almost feel likes kills to me. I had a game where I went 3-10 with 14 assists and felt like I had a great game.
 
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