VincentMatts
Member
Exactly
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Halo 5: Guardians |OT2| All Hail The Conquering Hero
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Exactly
In the Splatoon Won Best Shooter and Multiplayer Thread:
Its like Halo murdered his parents or something.
Its like Halo murdered his parents or something.
IronWarrior
Neo Member
It isn't really a question of whether to focus on maps or gametypes, since adding in the requested gametypes is incredibly easy. Oddball and Assault are both one art asset each (the ball/bomb), KotH is a couple of hill shapes that all share the same texture, Juggernaut has no new assets (the gravity hammer would be required though, I guess?) and Infection also doesn't require any extra art.
Whatever the reason 343 has omitted the gametypes, it's very unlikely it's due to time constraints and just a lack of general interest.
They play totally different, at least Truth and Regret do play way different, Regret is about top mid control, truth is played with controlling the Bubbles and P tower. so, is not about what you care, is about what the layout dictate on the play style of the map, I can agree of Eden and Empire, as You put both map and for me they are the same map with forged pieces moved (Kind of what it could be done with Anniversary Battle Creek), truth and Regret however are as similar to each other as Zealot and Midship are. 343 wouldnt had called Regret a remix and people probably wouldn't had been thinking is a remix of Truth.
I really dont care why they are doing remixes, and on the context is irrelevant.,
I hope they create social playlists soon. People quitting in my matches is probably half of the matches now. I'll be 7 and 1 and a couple people are sucking and they just quit. I'll finish the match 4 v 1 and will have a like 20 deaths. It takes all of my strength not to do anything besides report them. FUCK quitters.
TheCanisDirus
Member
It doesn't... that's why i say i understand what they're doing. I just wish they weren't. I'd gladly pay for packs of 4 DLC maps that were new developer made, non forge maps or even remakes/reinvisions of classic Halo-Halo3 maps.
It's obvious that H5's concentration on Warzone and Req was a contributing factor to it launching with less maps and modes than any Halo ever.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Oh i completely agree about Truth and Regret and Zealot and Midship... that's an example of a remix done right. Eden/Empire is too similar. Maybe if one half of the map was gone and replaced by some forerunner structure with completely different layout it would be ok. I just feel that these remixes are a cost and time efficient way for 343i to up their map-count while focusing their core resources on Warzone and Req stuffs... they know where they're making money and i must have been a central principal behind H5 and how it would evolve post-launch.
You don't even play Halo, man.
Lol I know buddy... and that's why nobody has seen me on there in a long while. I got burned out on the current offering and just want more, unique, non-forge Arena maps and all the old game modes back. When you have a limited amount of play time you have to be choosy on where to invest it... with all the other compelling multiplayer shooters out right now it's impossible for me to justify spending time in Halo 5. Rainbow6:Siege is where i'll be until H5 gets a much needed infusion.
this so much
Did you even play after they fixed the playlists and included a bunch of maps to the rotations?
Again, if the map is good, and doenst play like the map it is based on, what is the problem than they are doing that? I will preffer getting something good like Regret, than paying for a DLC and get medicore maps that are never going to appear in Mactmaking because most people are not going to pay them.
However, it doesn't go against me hopping to get brand new map with different layouts and design, bring me a good mid size asym, something like construct, lockout, damnation etc, or mid circular 4 points maps, like Warlock, Derelict, etc
also, I think Forge and BTB go hand and hand
Eden & Empire play absolutely nothing a like, like it's borderline stupidity to say they do.
Halo 5 has way more quality Arena maps than any other Halo game at this point in its life. The game has barely been out a month and people are constantly whining about map count, I don't get it. No shooter injects a huge DLC map count into its rotation a month in, why are we expecting differently here?
TheCanisDirus
Member
I did the maybe two weeks ago... im more so referring to lack of total maps and modes. It's great they fixed that issue though... but that doesn't allow me to play 5-6 more unique maps and 4-5 more game modes ;P
I personally dont like Regret AT ALL. Too obstructed and visually "blocked off" imo. To each his/her own. Map design is personal. What isn't is shipping with almost half the number of Arena maps as any other previous Halo.
I want 1 flag and assault on some asymmetrically, objective-designed maps (think Zanzibar). And as you mentioned, give me classics like some Warlock, Derelict and Ivory Tower remakes.
The core mechanics and gunplay are so good with H5... it's just for someone like me who only plays Arena and mostly objective games (or party/casuals when shooting-the-shit)... there's not much it offers as-is.
Well thanks for the kind remarks Ramirez! lol stupidity 'eh?!
As far as quality Arena maps... that's your opinion and you're completely entitled to it. I completely disagree. H5 compared to Halo through Halo 3... not even a contest... IMO. The point is Halo 5 launched with an identity crisis. It's trying to do too many things well... but, as a result, each area is suffering in ways they wouldn't if the game was more focused. If Halo 5 launched without Warzone and Req they'd most likely have launched with the standard 11-13 core maps and all the game modes we've come to expect over the years.
Even if the approach on gameplay on the map should be different, you must agree that they look too much alike for people to feel the play the same, the outside part, each of the bases, and tower have the same layout, however the addition on two catwalks in one of them, makes one map Asym and the other Symetrical.
That is very true indeed, we usually waited 2 or 3 month to just get 3 maps on previous Halo.
Looking similar and playing the same are two different things. I see people constantly say that the maps play the same, which just isn't true at all.
The difference is probably that Halo 5 has a much thinner map count than previous games on launch, partially because of the remixes but also because it had decided warzone and breakout maps.
I'm with you, man. Lack of modes? Ok, true, we need some oddball and KotH. But maps? C'mon, if you play Team Arena, you get 11 different maps and 4 different games modes.
That's not even counting Warzone, BTB, and the rest of Breakout maps. I just don't...
I can't believe people are on here saying Eden and Empire play alike.
One is symmetrical , the other isn't. That dramatically shifts the way they play immediately. Then there are the weapon layouts, cross maps sight lines, power weapons and powerup placement, moveable cover, and a wide open bottom mid.
They look alike, but they play NOTHING alike.
I mean Blue Team spawns at a higher elevation, with immediate access to a sniper rifle and invisibility. Red team spawns with a Hydra inside their base, and immediate access to an Overshield. What similar situation is their in Eden.
This argument is insane...
One is symmetrical , the other isn't. That dramatically shifts the way they play immediately. Then there are the weapon layouts, cross maps sight lines, power weapons and powerup placement, moveable cover, and a wide open bottom mid.
They look alike, but they play NOTHING alike.
I mean Blue Team spawns at a higher elevation, with immediate access to a sniper rifle and invisibility. Red team spawns with a Hydra inside their base, and immediate access to an Overshield. What similar situation is their in Eden.
This argument is insane...
I think Halo Reach (6 "arena" maps if you can call them that) and Halo 4 (5 arena maps i think) had a worst map rotation on release than Halo 5 (5 arena maps not including the remixes).
I think that anyone that really plays Halo can agree on this.
Thats true, but because they look the same, people will feel that they shouldn't count as a different map.
TheCanisDirus
Member
When i say Arena i mean Halo 5 Arena... non-warzone maps... maps that i can play Slayer/CTF etc. on. I apologize if you all took Arena to mean arena-styled-close-quarter maps.
Halo Reach and Halo 4 Were the worst two Halo's ever produced... so there's that lol.
The out-lier here is BTB, if you see Halo Reach and Halo 4 map count for non BTB games, the amount is practically the same, but these other Halo had more maps for BTB which didnt came on release for Halo 5,
Now forge has been used very good so far in BTB, as BTB has always been about large open areas, Halo 3 shipped with only with 3 real BTB maps, Halo 5 have 4 BTB forge maps, that even if they are forge, the most important aspect of forge (IMO open terrain) its very different in each map.
TheCanisDirus
Member
You dont JUST play BTB on "BTB-esq" maps. I can play slayer or ctf or oddball or assault on all of them as well. That's the issue.
I dont get your post.
The biggest disappointment for me is that 5 maps are exclusive to breakout.
I know some people love it... And it's great that they tried making a new arena game mode (although we shouldn't have had to sacrificed old game modes for it)... But 33% of the arena maps are exclusive to a niche game mode that not everyone likes. It's just a bummer to me.
Imagine if breakout didn't exist and in its place we had the missing game types + 5 more arena maps for the other modes. You probably wouldn't see nearly as many complaints over the map count then.
I know some people love it... And it's great that they tried making a new arena game mode (although we shouldn't have had to sacrificed old game modes for it)... But 33% of the arena maps are exclusive to a niche game mode that not everyone likes. It's just a bummer to me.
Imagine if breakout didn't exist and in its place we had the missing game types + 5 more arena maps for the other modes. You probably wouldn't see nearly as many complaints over the map count then.
Nah, Breakout maps are also forged, so at best you would only see 2 or 3 more forged maps.
In the past, there existed maps in the sandbox that could accommodate smaller Team Slayer games and larger BTB ones. Those maps simply don't exist in Halo 5 (whether you think they were particularly good ones to have is another matter.)
2-3 more forge maps for other modes would still be better for me since I don't care for breakout at all. So I'd take it lol
Yeah, that seriously reduces the map count for me. I love watching Breakout, but don't have much desire to play it. So that's five maps I'll never really touch. When word was going around that forge maps wouldn't count towards the map count, I was thrilled knowing Breakout maps weren't taking away from my Arena maps. But I was wrong.
TheCanisDirus
Member
This. You could play whatever non-BTB-only gametype on ANY map. Halo5 with it's design choices has thrown that out... so far.
So you prefer quantity over quality? You saying they shouldn't use Forge maps contradict this (even thought I think the BTB forge maps are good).
Did you even play counter-strike? Arguably the best fps ever. It had 4 maps on rotation for years.
Basically it just seems like they designed all the content thinking it was plenty if you switched between all the modes evenly... Fact is though not even close to every player is gonna do that. if you're not bouncing between all 4 of warzone, breakout, standard arena and BTB you're missing out on a significant portion of the maps.
Maps that can accommodate multiple game modes are very much needed.
Maps that can accommodate multiple game modes are very much needed.
TheCanisDirus
Member
When did i say that? I never said that? lol
I thought every... single... map in Halo 2 - 3 was good. Yes. Honestly.
I think every map in Halo 5's Arena pool is good save for Truth. I'd just like the standard ~11 maps Halo has always had to play my games on. Pretty simple.
Yeah i was an old 1.6 player... dont have to preach to the choir ;P.
Edit: Not on topic but speaking of CS... If you're a fan... check out R6:Siege... really seems like it could be consoles first, well-fit "CS" type game. (Yes they're different, an yes CS has been on console... but this feels like it's got something... community seems to agree too!)
Well, I asked once if the Stand off remake would work on a 5 v 5 or 4 v 4 in Halo 5, IMO, I think it does. but I agree that there is a clear separation between Arena and BTB in this game, in some cases is good because I dont want to see myself playing a 4 v 4 in Valhalla, which I hated so much. while in the other hand Playing 8 v 8 slayer in Construct was so much fun .
Shenanigans during the Stream. New and pretty pointless exploit? How to do the exploit.
They also punched some guys through the ceiling afterwards. Pretty hilarious.
GG's Glass btw.
They also punched some guys through the ceiling afterwards. Pretty hilarious.
GG's Glass btw.
VincentMatts
Member
Problem is, i find that the quality isnt great either. Most of the maps are average at best and honestly, i feel like the maps made in BTB are better "halo maps" than the ones 343 have been making. Sure theyre based on old Bungie maps but still, its fucking forge! 343 didnt do a good job at all imo with the maps in 5, or 4 for that matter. I didnt like most of 4s maps either other than Heaven.
And to add to all this, they make variants of these average maps that are out and call them new. Terrible job.
Very good point. I probably wouldn't have grown tired of the existing maps if there were more gametypes available.
As it stands, I'll probably never touch breakout, and I usually avoid BTB. In fact, I only tried it because I was fatigued with the monotony of arena and Warzone Assualt. (Luckily I like BTB this time around)
With previous halo's the variety of gametypes made it so that I could stay in my comfort zone (team slayer + team objective) and never get bored.
I'd search for the exact post if I wasn't on my phone... But I believe last night tashi said we were getting a written blog post detail detailing the December update
Edit: Akai linked it
For base matchmaking the current offering isn't too bad.
Strongholds is basically territories and assault is basically reverse ctf.
But I do miss the one sided objectives. I thought ricochet was the best gametypes halo added in years. I don't care much for infection in matchmaking but it creates so many fun custom games. I haven't played fun customs in years. Not since early reach halogaf customs
They do have a neutral flag in breakout I wonder if its possible to do a neutral flag gametype? Or perhaps a round based one flag based off of breakouts gametype.
Strongholds is basically territories and assault is basically reverse ctf.
But I do miss the one sided objectives. I thought ricochet was the best gametypes halo added in years. I don't care much for infection in matchmaking but it creates so many fun custom games. I haven't played fun customs in years. Not since early reach halogaf customs
They do have a neutral flag in breakout I wonder if its possible to do a neutral flag gametype? Or perhaps a round based one flag based off of breakouts gametype.
Guess it's written.
There is a Neutral CTF settings under Custom Games. Appareantly, it was there from the beginning, as I have been told in the other thread. Color me surprised. lol
There hasnt been really good Halo maps since Halo 3 first DLC, aside from a few exception and remakes (which is debatable if they are really good) everything since Halo 3 maps has been bellow average, Halo 5 is actually an Improvement for Halo 4 and Halo Reach (barf).
TheCanisDirus
Member
Poodlestrike
Banned
I'm really, really hoping we get at least 1 or 2 new gametypes with this one. Assault and some of the Slayer variants like Juggernaut, if nothing else.
Grifball is tied to the Hammer, so that's not coming this time. And Infection is a big enough deal to get its own themed update (which it also lends itself to quite well), so that's probably not in either.
Just... SOMETHING.
Grifball is tied to the Hammer, so that's not coming this time. And Infection is a big enough deal to get its own themed update (which it also lends itself to quite well), so that's probably not in either.
Just... SOMETHING.
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