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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

A

Akai__

Member
BizzyBum said:
The fact most pros want it out and scrims went great and were fun to watch yet 343 is keeping it in for HWC 2017 is a real head scratcher.
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I always thought this was because of 343i not splitting HCS into it's own playlist, so people who want to try Team Arena (the only 4vs4 playlist with objective modes until recently) can play this without a major change.

jem0208 said:
https://twitter.com/Spartan/status/811377114888937472?lang=en
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Not sure if my post was confusing, but I asked about the pros that thought that maps play better with radar. I haven't asked for a pro that thinks that a hybrid radar will work better than no radar, without even knowing how that hybrid radar will even work. And the question is why isn't he debating it? Did he get to play the Hybrid Radar stuff, but we aren't allowed to know? Just curious.

blue_phazon said:
+ snipedown and lethul on their streams
Click to expand...

I was watching Lethul the other day and he said that he liked the No Radar scrimms, but he needs to play more to make a final decision. Guess he changed his mind, because I also believe you that he said that on the stream. And Snipedown also literally said that he always prefered No Radar in older Halo games and he even made a video where he talks about No Radar. I know it's a coupple weeks old by now, but I highly doubt he changed his mind on that. His points are still very vaild.
 
J

jem0208

Member
Akai__ said:
I always thought this was because of 343i not splitting HCS into it's own playlist, so people who want to try Team Arena (the only 4vs4 playlist with objective modes until recently) can play this without a major change.



Not sure if my post was confusing, but I asked about the pros that thought that maps play better with radar. I haven't asked for a pro that thinks that a hybrid radar will work better than no radar, without even knowing how that hybrid radar will even work. And the question is why isn't he debating it? Did he get to play the Hybrid Radar stuff, but we aren't allowed to know? Just curious.



I was watching Lethul the other day and he said that he liked the No Radar scrimms, but he needs to play more to make a final decision. Guess he changed his mind, because I also believe you that he said that on the stream. And Snipedown also literally said that he always prefered No Radar in older Halo games and he even made a video where he talks about No Radar. I know it's a coupple weeks old by now, but I highly doubt he changed his mind on that. His points are still very vaild.
Click to expand...
He also says radar plays better than no radar...

Radar that detects abilities but not walking / crouching > Radar > No radar
Click to expand...
 
A

Akai__

Member
jem0208 said:
He also says radar plays better than no radar...
Click to expand...

I honestly read that as hybrid > no radar > radar. My bad.

But still, I want to know why he thinks that and if he is one of the players that is dominating with Radar and if he relies too much on it. The "not debating it" part is really putting me off. I just don't get it.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
What the hell is going on with this latest update? Several matches my controller scheme has changed to something completely random as did my buddy. Last match of warzone I played LT became throw grenade and LB became boost. Looked in the menu and my selection was still the default.
 
S

Samurai G0SU

Member
hwalker84 said:
What the hell is going on with this latest update? Several matches my controller scheme has changed to something completely random as did my buddy. Last match of warzone I played LT became throw grenade and LB became boost. Looked in the menu and my selection was still the default.
Click to expand...

Ill take that excuse on my squirrely aim today. I over aimed so much today its not even funny. :(

But i use default so maybe i didnt see any type of button swapping on my end.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
Samurai G0SU said:
Ill take that excuse on my squirrely aim today. I over aimed so much today its not even funny. :(

But i use default so maybe i didnt see any type of button swapping on my end.
Click to expand...

I play default as well. What I'm saying is the game seems to have a bug now where your scheme changes but still says default in the menu.

At first I thought it was my controller. Then I had a warzone firefight change me and my buddies control scheme to something completely different than what the default is.
 
Y

YourExWife

Member
hwalker84 said:
What the hell is going on with this latest update? Several matches my controller scheme has changed to something completely random as did my buddy. Last match of warzone I played LT became throw grenade and LB became boost. Looked in the menu and my selection was still the default.
Click to expand...

This happened to me when we tried to do customs the other night. I thought my elite was broken or something, but then everything was working fine once I quit the game. Rejoined and all my controls were fucked again. Never had it happen in matchmaking though.
 
N

NoLongerALurker

Banned
Akai__ said:
I want to see that pro that says that any map plays better with radar, because I won't believe this for a second. I have watched the radar-less scrims and I've watched Snakebites/Ryanoobs take on it and they were all saying that the game played much better, since it opens up the maps more and different ways of engaging are possible, without being spotted immediately. People also didn't crouch as much with an auto-rifle in a corner, because of this.

Must have been a pro that was dominating with radar, because otherwise that makes absolutely zero sense.
Click to expand...

Blue_phazon already mentioned it but snipedown said it after finishing a map when they were scrimming with no radar and I think his teammates agreed. Can't recall the map or game type they were playing though.

I'm with you though and they should just test no radar right now in team arena and see what the community thinks. That's what this time is for but it is already very close to the first HWC qualifier.

My biggest complaint though is how that blog post makes it sound like the community just recently started complaining about radar. A lot of people have been complaining about radar since day 1 and it seems like just now 343 is reacting to it and working on a modified radar. I feel like this should have been a major priority for the most recent update.
 
J

jem0208

Member
NoLongerALurker said:
Blue_phazon already mentioned it but snipedown said it after finishing a map when they were scrimming with no radar and I think his teammates agreed. Can't recall the map or game type they were playing though.

I'm with you though and they should just test no radar right now in team arena and see what the community thinks. That's what this time is for but it is already very close to the first HWC qualifier.

My biggest complaint though is how that blog post makes it sound like the community just recently started complaining about radar. A lot of people have been complaining about radar since day 1 and it seems like just now 343 is reacting to it and working on a modified radar. I feel like this should have been a major priority for the most recent update.
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I've been following H5 esports since the start release and I honestly only recently started seeing lots of people complaining about it.

There were one of two before hand but nothing like now.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
This may be an obvious question but when they say the season of HWC 2017, does that mean the entire year?

EDIT: As in will we have to wait until the end of the year before seeing any changes to radar?
Click to expand...

Halo World Championship 2017 will go until the end of March-ish.

NoLongerALurker said:
Blue_phazon already mentioned it but snipedown said it after finishing a map when they were scrimming with no radar and I think his teammates agreed. Can't recall the map or game type they were playing though.

I'm with you though and they should just test no radar right now in team arena and see what the community thinks. That's what this time is for but it is already very close to the first HWC qualifier.

My biggest complaint though is how that blog post makes it sound like the community just recently started complaining about radar. A lot of people have been complaining about radar since day 1 and it seems like just now 343 is reacting to it and working on a modified radar. I feel like this should have been a major priority for the most recent update.
Click to expand...

There were definitely complaints about radar from the start, but the pros collectively didn't feel the need to change/update it until recently. But yea, I can see how someone who's been pushing for radar updates since launch would be pissed off. Definitely not the intention.
 
R

RedSparrows

Member
Ah, the perennial radar debate.

Presumably 'no radar' people want it gone only for pro matches, right? Cos one of the complaints you see about Halo 5 is that it's 'hardcore' over 'normal', and taking radar away from non-pros would be terrible for them.
 
H

heytred

Neo Member
I've been saying this for almost a year, even dating back to when I was with 343 Industries:

Simply removing radar is not going to help. In order for that to be an even viable option you would have to do two things. 1) nerf the AR *and* 2) remove/nerf Spartan Charge.

No radar only exacerbates the autos issue. No longer are autos ''balanced' by crouch. I know that sounds silly, but mobility is countered by the presence of radar. You think they are annoying now? Wait until a guy can spawn, flank, and spray with little to no repercussions.

Don't get me started on no radar Spartan Charge...

No radar viability would either require the above or a full commitment to no radar BR starts and that opens a whole new can of worms regarding map movement, spawn traps, camping, etc. The maps and layout just are not optimized well for BRs and I don't see 343 making the sweeping changes necessary to make that the case.
 
J

jem0208

Member
heytred said:
I've been saying this for almost a year, even dating back to when I was with 343 Industries:

Simply removing radar is not going to help. In order for that to be an even viable option you would have to do two things. 1) nerf the AR *and* 2) remove/nerf Spartan Charge.

No radar only exacerbates the autos issue. No longer are autos ''balanced' by crouch. I know that sounds silly, but mobility is countered by the presence of radar. You think they are annoying now? Wait until a guy can spawn, flank, and spray with little to no repercussions.

Don't get me started on no radar Spartan Charge...

No radar viability would either require the above or a full commitment to no radar BR starts and that opens a whole new can of worms regarding map movement, spawn traps, camping, etc. The maps and layout just are not optimized well for BRs and I don't see 343 making the sweeping changes necessary to make that the case.
Click to expand...

Ehhh ARs needing a nerf is debatable.

I'd argue that the removal of radar would decrease AR usage because you won't have knowledge of enemy positions before hand. With radar before you round a corner you know exactly how far away a player is so you can easily judge whether or not to switch to an auto. Without radar you don't know whether they're within optimal range of an auto so sticking with the pistol is a safer option. You also have the reverse where if you know a player is about to come around the corner you're more likely to switch to an auto to counter them.

We've also had no-radar scrims between pros and auto usage decreased quite a lot.
 
H

heytred

Neo Member
jem0208 said:
Ehhh ARs needing a nerf is debatable.

I'd argue that the removal of radar would decrease AR usage because you won't have knowledge of enemy positions before hand. With radar before you round a corner you know exactly how far away a player is so you can easily judge whether or not to switch to an auto. Without radar you don't know whether they're within optimal range of an auto so sticking with the pistol is a safer option. You also have the reverse where if you know a player is about to come around the corner you're more likely to switch to an auto to counter them.

We've also had no-radar scrims between pros and auto usage decreased quite a lot.
Click to expand...

You could argue that, but sadly it's not the case. It's been tested extensively - autos in general are stronger with no radar because there are few repercussions for pushing into close range.

Also, those scrims are not a good gauge of the direction the meta would take with no radar as it's played more. Just because they opt to utility weapons more, doesn't mean that's the 'best' way to play - and when money's on the line, pros are always going to do what gives them the best chance to win.
 
J

jem0208

Member
heytred said:
You could argue that, but sadly it's not the case. It's been tested extensively - autos in general are stronger with no radar because there are few repercussions for pushing into close range.

Also, those scrims are not a good gauge of the direction the meta would take with no radar as it's played more. Just because they opt to utility weapons more, doesn't mean that's the 'best' way to play - and when money's on the line, pros are always going to do what gives them the best chance to win.
Click to expand...

Fair enough if that's what you guys found.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Great news about radar. Take your time, get it right, launch 6 with all we've learned
 
N

NoLongerALurker

Banned
jem0208 said:
I've been following H5 esports since the start release and I honestly only recently started seeing lots of people complaining about it.

There were one of two before hand but nothing like now.
Click to expand...

After summer pro league I felt like enough people had complained about radar and 343 should have started working on the modified radar then. You're right though that recently it's pretty much unanimous that radar needs to be addressed.

Tashi said:
There were definitely complaints about radar from the start, but the pros collectively didn't feel the need to change/update it until recently. But yea, I can see how someone who's been pushing for radar updates since launch would be pissed off. Definitely not the intention.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the response, Tashi. I totally get that some pro players weren't on board for changing radar until recently. Like I already mentioned some pros still prefer radar over no radar. I was just really hoping we would get that modified radar for HWC2017. It's disappointing. And then you see some people over at TB saying they've lost interest in watching HWC2017 because of radar. Personally I don't fully buy that and that's just a hot take when emotions are high. But it is still a little concerning to see and had the modified radar been ready for HWC2017 we would probably see people getting hyped and continuing that momentum after the awesome pro league finals.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
YourExWife said:
This happened to me when we tried to do customs the other night. I thought my elite was broken or something, but then everything was working fine once I quit the game. Rejoined and all my controls were fucked again. Never had it happen in matchmaking though.
Click to expand...

Happened to me in ranked. Just thought the new playlist disabled sprint of something. I was getting wrecked.
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
I think the biggest reason to stick with radar is so that Arena settings are as similar to other Core game modes as possible.

Competitive Halo players have had this debate for ages; if the Arena settings are unrecognizable when compared to the base settings, a large population of casual players won't even try it.
And on top of balance issues, I think radar adds a layer of metagame with movement and silenced weapons.

I'm very intrigued to learn more about these radar settings, and I'm amazed we're actually getting toggleable options to play with. Juices would be proud.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
I don't think a significant portion of players will ignore a playlist just because it doesn't have radar, or even an altered radar, especially when SWAT remains one of the most popular playlists.

Let people try it in that "beta playlist" they mentioned, if that's still a thing they're planning. Let's just hope it's not forgotten or dismissed like those times we had hope for
BTB Pistol starts.
 
S

Strider

Member
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
I don't think a significant portion of players will ignore a playlist just because it doesn't have radar, or even an altered radar, especially when SWAT remains one of the most popular playlists.

Let people try it in that "beta playlist" they mentioned, if that's still a thing they're planning. Let's just hope it's not forgotten or dismissed like those times we had hope for
BTB Pistol starts.
Click to expand...

pffffft please.

There was never hope for BTB pistol starts...

:(
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
I don't think a significant portion of players will ignore a playlist just because it doesn't have radar, or even an altered radar, especially when SWAT remains one of the most popular playlists.

Let people try it in that "beta playlist" they mentioned, if that's still a thing they're planning. Let's just hope it's not forgotten or dismissed like those times we had hope for
BTB Pistol starts.
Click to expand...

I'm referring to the idea of BR starts, no spartan abilities, and no radar.
I think radar could be removed, but I appreciate that they're trying to make changes to it rather than removing it all together right away.

And maybe if it is successful, those changes could make it into Halo 6 as default.
 
H

heytred

Neo Member
BizzyBum said:
You say that like it would be a bad thing. ;)
Click to expand...

No, simply that it's unlikely. Since the beginning it's been 343's goal to maintain similarity between the 'core' Halo experience and the competitive one. It's pretty obvious they are trying to make changes/improvements that won't muddy Halo 5's identity.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Random, but Social Skirmish is great. Feels good to play some 4v4's with a mix of different gametypes without caring much about performance. It's a pretty lax playlist imo, even with the occasional parties trying to pubstomp randies.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
NoLongerALurker said:
Appreciate the response, Tashi. I totally get that some pro players weren't on board for changing radar until recently. Like I already mentioned some pros still prefer radar over no radar. I was just really hoping we would get that modified radar for HWC2017. It's disappointing. And then you see some people over at TB saying they've lost interest in watching HWC2017 because of radar. Personally I don't fully buy that and that's just a hot take when emotions are high. But it is still a little concerning to see and had the modified radar been ready for HWC2017 we would probably see people getting hyped and continuing that momentum after the awesome pro league finals.
Click to expand...

It's extremely difficult to quantify the impact things have on viewership, especially when there are so many factors that go into it. I obviously hate to see fans say they're not interested in watching anymore, but I think we made the right decision for this situation. I'm hoping we get these updated radar options out the door real soon so we can do some thorough testing publicly.

We've had some absolutely incredible matches and tournaments played in Halo 5 thus far, and I think HaloWC 2017 will be the best yet. The scene is a lot more competitive than it was a year ago, and I hope people from all over will tune in.
 
BizzyBum

BizzyBum

Member
Yeah, I think the people saying they are not watching HCS anymore because of radar is just hyperbole at this point. Matches have been awesome with it on, can't wait to see how a hybrid radar would change the pro game.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
BizzyBum said:
Yeah, I think the people saying they are not watching HCS anymore because of radar is just hyperbole at this point. Matches have been awesome with it on, can't wait to see how a hybrid radar would change the pro game.
Click to expand...

Looking at the people who make those comments on TB, I always see most of them in twitch chat talking about how crazy the LAN matches are.

They are speaking out of frustration, and are probably trying to scare 343 into action.

The sprint and weapons balance issues are valid concerns though.
 
S

Samurai G0SU

Member
Ugh... im stil trying to get my groove back after my couple month hiatus.

Squirrly aim still and i cant even get perfects anymore. Im really a scrub now.

Getting obliterated in skirmish by teams. I quit one game because the when i spawned, 1-2 seconds later id get teamshot or just outright destroyed.

Skirmish got too sweaty, too fast for me.

I do have to say that some matches are having server issues. Like a rubberband enemy once or twice but thats it. Idk, maybe im looking for an excuse but i believe i cant acheive onyx in slayer anymore the way im playing.

Feels bad man... rip
 
N

NoLongerALurker

Banned
I think people are just starting to troll with how op autos are in this game. Just played a team of 4 all 2000+ Onyx that used AR and SMG combos all game on plaza strongholds. One of the most frustrating games I've ever played.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Man, reach has not aged well. Bloom is terrible, even in campaign. Also, tiny jumps...
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
2, 3, and 4 feel fine to me, or did before 5 came out (haven't gone back since). Ce' s jumps are a bit too floaty and the movement feels a bit awkward- there's a weird lag time between jumps and landings.

Again though, after 5 they all may be hard to return too
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
The problem with Reach to me isn't the feel, it's the practical necessity to play the game a certain way. Even on Legendary in other Halo games I feel like I have a lot more options on choosing how I want to run encounters, but Reach is basically "EMP + headshot from as far away as you can manage." There's very little that's satisfying about engaging the enemies from a distance, especially when one of your precision weapons makes them jump around so much that you waste half your clip.

There's so many encounters in the campaign that would 100% feel better to play in basically any other Halo game.
 
BizzyBum

BizzyBum

Member
Feel the Swift said:
So how are people feeling about the new Arena map settings?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I haven't even played them yet. With social out now I haven't stepped foot in the ranked playlists. Now that they are separated, Team Arena would be even worse going in solo.

From some scrims I've watched they seem like good changes. Can't go wrong with less splinters and storm rifles. No caster on rig is great, too.
 
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