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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

A

Ade

Member
YourExWife said:
So are any of these playdates ever *not* going to be during standard work hours in the US? Or should I just give up hope of ever having even the chance of trying for that helmet?
Click to expand...

Its even more fun if you're non US.

They're almost in sensible times for us here in the UK, but of course to stand a chance of matching them you've got to search expanded, and will of course be matched with anyone else first.

I gave up on completionism with the Unicorn Skins and Timmy (I even have the Lan emblem). I don't like customs (well I do, but the 151 grind takes precedence to sinking 50 hours of hard found playtime into customs) and Im still bitter with my lack of H5 Beta emblems.

Hmm those bloody beta emblems really annoy me as they just dont give a shit about it. (their forum support, after 6 months told me to basically "Sod off and stop bumping the thread every few weeks). - Oh and that time the @HaloGear twitter said they'd send me something to make up for them not getting the Mattel figures to the UK in time for Christmas, leading to my son been disappointed, only to never actually send anything....Disjointed ramble aside, I love the games, but 343 do seem to enjoy finding ways to piss me off via their community stuff...
 
M

m23

Member
I tried to get back into mp a short while back. Got matched with champions 2 matches in a row. No thanks, fix your matchmaking.
 
M

mo60

Member
Is anyone here able to bookmark their game clips. I can't bookmark anything anymore because I get some weird save error whenever I try to bookmark something.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Extermination is legit, but it seems to really be all about the power ups. If a team is dumb enough to forfeit those off start, it's game over. It does get more interesting if they are burned, but I think I'd prefer it without those.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
I might get roasted for saying this, but I've been thinking about whether including Forge is even worth it for halo 6. 343 has yet to do a good job of implementing forge maps into halo playlists on a more regular basis. Halo 5, to me anyway, is a shining example of why maybe they should just put those resources into making better matchmaking maps.

You mean to tell me they can't find better maps than Pegasus and actually insert them into the game? Needed changes to maps takes what feels like decades. I'm just really annoyed at how forge has been utilized in Halo 5. If used right, it would be an awesome injection of new and solid maps, but not with the way 343 has handled forge. Constantly seeing a new forge map spotlighted in a weekly update, but that map never seeing the light of day in actual playlists. And I'm not talking about niche playlists - yeah yeah yeah - infection.. breakout... a horrible btb playlist... neat... If infection has a higher player count than most of the other playlists, it doesn't mean it's necessarily good, it means the rest of the playlists are seriously underperforming. Maybe i'm looking at it the wrong way. I dunno. I know there is a strong forge community, but if 343 really wants to bring ex-halo players back to the game, it's going to take more than just having a nifty forge tool. The obvious answer is why not both. I'm just not convinced 343 can execute after seeing how halo 5's forge has been handled.

Also, the ranking system and skill matching system needs to be tossed completely or revisited. I'm to the point where I really would just prefer a straight 1-50 rank system for each playlist. Players eventually place in a bracket that is appropriate to their skill level. Because if you rank too high and above your own skill, you're going to win less, and eventually stall at the appropriate spot. If you're better than the people you're playing against you'll win more and continue to rank up to a more appropriate rank. It's much better than having the system try and place you each week into an arbitrary placement. I pretty much hate the current system.

Defect said:
I am too. Just fix the damn aiming.
Click to expand...
and this lol
 
F

Fahzgoolin

Banned
Deputy Moonman said:
maybe no forge, but maybe more and better designed maps
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Stinkles (Frank) has answered similar questions/propositions like this by saying game dev doesn't really work that way. Taking one team off of forge doesn't mean they are "freeing up resources" and can put more time and effort into another area.

Also, while I can sympathize with your idea, if Halo 6 isn't feature complete they would be sending it to the grave.

HTupolev said:
They should put the entire studio toward fixing the aiming. Engineers, concept artists, marketing, building security, Stinkles, everyone. That'll solve it in no time!
Click to expand...

Maybe this will fix the story too.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
They should put the entire studio toward fixing the aiming. Engineers, concept artists, marketing, building security, Stinkles, everyone. That'll solve it in no time!
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Fahzgoolin said:
I'm pretty sure Stinkles (Frank) has answered similar questions/propositions like this by saying game dev doesn't really work that way. Taking one team off of forge doesn't mean they are "freeing up resources" and can put more time and effort into another area.

Also, while I can sympathize with your idea, if Halo 6 isn't feature complete they would be sending it to the grave.
Click to expand...
I wasn't sure how the development team splits up the different parts of the game. If what you say is true, then it probably wouldn't make a difference. And to be clear, I like forge, but I just wish it was implemented into matchmaking more consistently. And the latter part of what you said about being feature complete is a pretty big deal. Halo 5 was definitely hurt by its lack of expected features upon release.
HTupolev said:
They should put the entire studio toward fixing the aiming. Engineers, concept artists, marketing, building security, Stinkles, everyone. That'll solve it in no time!
Click to expand...
lol
 
F

Fahzgoolin

Banned
Deputy Moonman said:
I wasn't sure how the development team splits up the different parts of the game. If what you say is true, then it probably wouldn't make a difference. And to be clear, I like forge, but I just wish it was implemented into matchmaking more consistently. And the latter part of what you said about being feature complete is a pretty big deal. Halo 5 was definitely hurt by its lack of expected features upon release.
Click to expand...

From what I understand, game dev in large groups becomes very specialized in specific areas with people becoming well practiced and familiar with work flow and specific systems. Making another team hop over could actually disrupt and even slow down the core group.

In the earlier days of Bungie (Halo 1 & 2 days) the team was apparently small enough to have different people jump into other areas and help out.

Marty actually commented on this recently when announcing their new VR game (name escapes me). He lamented how modern game dev environments have become so convoluted and complex with too many chefs in the kitchen, which is why they are forming a smaller studio once again.

I think having a smaller team also allows for a group to have a stronger singular passion to make a game they want to play, instead of having layers of decision making and professional hierarchies slowing down creative processes and liberties.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
I might get roasted for saying this, but I've been thinking about whether including Forge is even worth it for halo 6. 343 has yet to do a good job of implementing forge maps into halo playlists on a more regular basis. Halo 5, to me anyway, is a shining example of why maybe they should just put those resources into making better matchmaking maps.

You mean to tell me they can't find better maps than Pegasus and actually insert them into the game? Needed changes to maps takes what feels like decades. I'm just really annoyed at how forge has been utilized in Halo 5. If used right, it would be an awesome injection of new and solid maps, but not with the way 343 has handled forge. Constantly seeing a new forge map spotlighted in a weekly update, but that map never seeing the light of day in actual playlists. And I'm not talking about niche playlists - yeah yeah yeah - infection.. breakout... a horrible btb playlist... neat... If infection has a higher player count than most of the other playlists, it doesn't mean it's necessarily good, it means the rest of the playlists are seriously underperforming. Maybe i'm looking at it the wrong way. I dunno. I know there is a strong forge community, but if 343 really wants to bring ex-halo players back to the game, it's going to take more than just having a nifty forge tool. The obvious answer is why not both. I'm just not convinced 343 can execute after seeing how halo 5's forge has been handled.
Click to expand...

Forge definitley needs to be in, but 343 needs to be better at utilizing the communities content. Not just for social experiments.

Deputy Moonman said:
Also, the ranking system and skill matching system needs to be tossed completely or revisited. I'm to the point where I really would just prefer a straight 1-50 rank system for each playlist. Players eventually place in a bracket that is appropriate to their skill level. Because if you rank too high and above your own skill, you're going to win less, and eventually stall at the appropriate spot. If you're better than the people you're playing against you'll win more and continue to rank up to a more appropriate rank. It's much better than having the system try and place you each week into an arbitrary placement. I pretty much hate the current system.


and this lol
Click to expand...

The ranking system works just like it did in the 1-50 days. The current CSRs directly analogous to specific 1-50 ranges.

Your rank isn't what determines who you'll play against. It's just an overlay that sits on top of your matchmaking rating (MMR) that allows for a display of skill progression. Resetting the CSR has no effect on the games ability to place you in matches.

It's the MMR that decided who you play against, and that can swing up and down much faster than CSR. That's why it's not suitable as a display of skill progression, and it's also often why you end up in matches against people who seem to be too far away in rank.

The actual issues with matchmaking system are the low population and the lack of party restrictions (or an algorithm to create better matches despite players being in parties). Without these 2 issues MM would be just as good as previous games.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Trup1aya said:
The ranking system works just like it did in the 1-50 days. The current CSRs directly analogous to specific 1-50 ranges.

Your rank isn't what determines who you'll play against. It's just an overlay that sits on top of your matchmaking rating (MMR) that allows for a display of skill progression. Resetting the CSR has no effect on the games ability to place you in matches.

It's the MMR that decided who you play against, and that can swing up and down much faster than CSR. That's why it's not suitable as a display of skill progression, and it's also often why you end up in matches against people who seem to be too far away in rank.

The actual issues with matchmaking system are the low population and the lack of party restrictions (or an algorithm to create better matches despite players being in parties). Without these 2 issues MM would be just as good as previous games.
Click to expand...
Eh I disagree. The ranking system in Halo 2 was pretty simple. You win games you rank up. You lose games you rank down. The system matched you against players of a similar rank (+/- a few levels). I don't think there is much more that needs to be done in a ranking system. I don't even care about CSR anymore. Just show me my match-made rank and let me get on with my business. Going up or down in rank quickly doesn't bother me to be honest. I'd prefer to move around a bunch. In theory, players would naturally bounce back in forth in their skill range after enough games. I'm not claiming to know anything about how the ranking/matching system works in Halo 5, but it seemed pretty simple in Halo 2 and worked well enough.
 
F

Fahzgoolin

Banned
Deputy Moonman said:
Eh I disagree. The ranking system in Halo 2 was pretty simple. You win games you rank up. You lose games you rank down. The system matched you against players of a similar rank (+/- a few levels). I don't think there is much more that needs to be done in a ranking system. I don't even care about CSR anymore. Just show me my match-made rank and let me get on with my business. Going up or down in rank quickly doesn't bother me to be honest. I'd prefer to move around a bunch. In theory, players would naturally bounce back in forth in their skill range after enough games. I'm not claiming to know anything about how the ranking/matching system works in Halo 5, but it seemed pretty simple in Halo 2 and worked well enough.
Click to expand...

Yep. I like the readability and simplicity of a system like Halo 2's where you simply progress by winning or losing. No more convoluted behind the scenes systems. No more tiers or classes of ranks. A simple number tied to a simple outcome of winning or losing...
 
D

Detective

Member
Fata1moose said:
Plus no more claustrophobic maps, plus real BTB maps, plus a good campaign (343 has yet to prove themselves here).
Click to expand...

They are going to show MC face for real this time, Kill him, kill Cortana, destroy halo rings, kill the arbiter, and Locke will save the day but drift away with one of the guardians.
 
J

jem0208

Member
Pretty sure Halo has always had a separate visible rank and matchmaking rank. The only difference is the placement matches and gold/plat/diamond instead of 1-50.
 
F

Fahzgoolin

Banned
jem0208 said:
Pretty sure Halo has always had a separate visible rank and matchmaking rank. The only difference is the placement matches and gold/plat/diamond instead of 1-50.
Click to expand...

Hmm...perhaps you are correct. Reading through this, it was accruing and losing "experience points" based on wins and losses with some caveats. I just prefer it. *shrug*

Halo 2:
Halo-2-Ranking-System-Explained-768x1024.jpg
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Fahzgoolin said:
Hmm...perhaps you are correct. Reading through this, it was accruing and losing "experience points" based on wins and losses with some caveats. I just prefer it. *shrug*

Halo 2:
Halo-2-Ranking-System-Explained-768x1024.jpg
Click to expand...
haha where did you find that? that's really an interesting read. How different is it from what we have now I wonder? I know I used to argue pretty hard about having individual performance count for more (since I played solo so much), and bungie tried to do that with reach if I remember correctly. But like you said, I'd rather everything just be transparent now, even if it means going to a simple win rank up lose rank down system without much reward for individual effort. I don't want to see someone's csr. I just want to know what their matchmaking rank is and mine.
 
J

jem0208

Member
Fahzgoolin said:
Hmm...perhaps you are correct. Reading through this, it was accruing and losing "experience points" based on wins and losses with some caveats. I just prefer it. *shrug*

Halo 2:
Halo-2-Ranking-System-Explained-768x1024.jpg
Click to expand...

That's what H5 is doing too.

Josh Menke said that H5's ranking is actually identical to H3's system.

Deputy Moonman said:
haha where did you find that? that's really an interesting read. How different is it from what we have now I wonder? I know I used to argue pretty hard about having individual performance count for more (since I played solo so much), and bungie tried to do that with reach if I remember correctly. But like you said, I'd rather everything just be transparent now, even if it means going to a simple win rank up lose rank down system without much reward for individual effort. I don't want to see someone's csr. I just want to know what their matchmaking rank is and mine.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what it's like now. You gain points if you win, you lose points if you lose. How much depends on the ranks of who you're playing with/against.

I can't remember exactly what he said but I'm pretty sure Menke mentioned why showing the MMR is a bad idea. I think it had something to do with it being quite variable so it would frustrate players... I may be wrong there though.

Edit: Here's what he said:

Josh Menke said:
Why not show MMR all the time instead?

The main reason we don't splash MMR all over is we reserve the right to use whatever information we can to update your MMR. This can include information that could potentially be unfair to use to update your CSR. We don't do a lot of this right now, but I could see a world where MMR can be affected by, e.g., how you played in a completely different playlist. In that case, we update your MMR to a more accurate reflection of your current skill, but it would be unfair to de-rank you magically outside of you playing on that playlist. Showing an MMR that is this volatile would be confusing.

CSR should be the most accurate measure of what you deserve to show as your Rank. MMR should be the most accurate measure of where we should matchmake you right now. Those aren't always the same, and don't always have the same rules of fairness that govern them.

That said, I do also see a future where instead of directly showing the MMR that made the match, we could show some summarized version of your opponents' strength to give you a feel for why you were matched with them. For example, we could tell you that even though your opponents all look Diamond, they just played like Gold players, which matches up nicely with you being Gold.
Click to expand...

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/...28/2103781e-b16c-4a14-9349-7c253374c99e/posts
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
Eh I disagree. The ranking system in Halo 2 was pretty simple. You win games you rank up. You lose games you rank down. The system matched you against players of a similar rank (+/- a few levels). I don't think there is much more that needs to be done in a ranking system. I don't even care about CSR anymore. Just show me my match-made rank and let me get on with my business. Going up or down in rank quickly doesn't bother me to be honest. I'd prefer to move around a bunch. In theory, players would naturally bounce back in forth in their skill range after enough games. I'm not claiming to know anything about how the ranking/matching system works in Halo 5, but it seemed pretty simple in Halo 2 and worked well enough.
Click to expand...

Your are disagreeing with a stone cold fact.

You win games in h5 you gain csr points
You win games in h2 you gain exp

You lose games in h5 you lose csr points
You lose games in h2 you lose exp

In h5 your csr points are converted into a rank gold 1 - onyx
In h2 your exp are converted into a rank 1-50

It's litteraly just different labels applied to the exact same data.

The system in h2 didnt match based on rank, it matched based on your hidden mmr. It just happened that people with similar mmr's often had similar ranks. This was also benefited by party restrictions and large population counts.

You really dont want mmr's to be used for ranks, because the swings would be extremely confusing and it would probably make people feel terrible when it appeared they lost a ton of progress when they really didn't.

Your rank is a progression system. Its an overlay that sits atop the matchmaking system. These are two different, but related systems that every game since h2 has had.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
for reference

Menke:
CSR and 1-50 Equivalencies
I’ve seen some interest in knowing how Halo 5’s CSR system relates to Halo 3’s 1-50 system.
It’s like this:
We use the same exact system as Halo 3
This system gives us a 1-50 for every player like it always did
We rename those numbers like this and tell you that’s your Rank:
1-6: Bronze
7-18: Silver
19-31: Gold
32-44: Platinum
45-50: Diamond 1-3
Halo 3’s system actually goes above 50, but the game hid that. We use those higher numbers to add Ranks beyond 50:
51-57: Diamond 4-6
58+: Onyx
Top 200 Onyx: Champion
Examples:
The same exact code that gave you a 43 in Halo 3 still gives you a 43 in Halo 5. We just call you Platinum now instead of 43.
The same exact code that gave you a 50 in Halo 3 still gives you a 50 in Halo 5, we just call you “Diamond 3” instead of 50. BUT, read the next example before you think too hard.
The same exact code from Halo 3 actually gave some of you a “60” in Halo 3, but it was never shown. If you were a “60” in Halo 3, you were still called a “50”. In Halo 5, we call you “Onyx” instead.
Again, we literally just took the exact same system and just renamed the Ranks. No funny business here.
Click to expand...
 
N

NOKYARD

Member
Haruko said:
I'd try saving it as a .PNG and trying that just to see, but that's bizarre.
Click to expand...

I found the solution on Reddit.

I was using a 360 gamerpic which they enlarged to appear properly on the Xbox One.

https://flic.kr/p/TvYqsJhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/nokyard/

The fix is to select one of the default gamer pics to disable the zoom function, then upload your custom gamer pic.



Fata1moose said:
Avalanche, BTB pistol starts confirmed.
Click to expand...

Nope, but you're getting warmer.
 
T

TCKaos

Member
I quite like that we're getting more Forge maps in matchmaking. I mean, almost literally every single map in the entire franchise that's worth playing has been remade in Halo 5 forge. You could, right now, put together an all-star playlist with the best maps in the franchise that were the best for casual and competitive play.

The Pit, Guardian, Skyline, Sanctuary, Turf (shoutout to Nutter on those two), Damnation, Wizard/Warlock, Ivory Tower, Battle Creek, Narrows, Cold Storage, and what have you all have perfect, fully functional remakes that could be implemented in matchmaking today.

The same goes for Longshore, and Avalanche (shoutout to Nok), Blood Gulch, Highlands, High Grounds, Zanzibar, Terminal, Exile, Harvest, Ice Fields, Danger Canyon, Timberland, and what have you for BTB.

Shit, the three Invasion maps have been remade using a custom gametype.

Also, nearly every forge map implemented in matchmaking (with the exceptions of Orion, Pegasus, and Unearthed) plays better than one of the remixes put in Arena. Or are we going to sit here and argue that Molten and Overgrown play better than Basin and New Antifreeze (holy fuck that feels weird to think)?
 
F

Fahzgoolin

Banned
Guys... Elimination makes this game sing.

And the forgers did a great job with the maps. Feels professional. The maps look and feel more like Halo than the 343 maps lol
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
My God people are so dumb. What do you do when you are down to 1v4 in extermination? If you're my teammates, you challenge everything. YOLO
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
op_ivy said:
My God people are so dumb. What do you do when you are down to 1v4 in extermination? If you're my teammates, you challenge everything. YOLO
Click to expand...

I was on my death screen, had about 2secs to respawn, when our remaining survive tried to take on 4 by himself. We lost that round.

One of the guys in my team was screaming into his mic. "Just wait for us to sp--, no what are you doing?are you fucking dumb? " the typical Halo pleasantries.
 
M

Masterz1337

Neo Member
Deputy Moonman said:
haha where did you find that? that's really an interesting read. How different is it from what we have now I wonder? I know I used to argue pretty hard about having individual performance count for more (since I played solo so much), and bungie tried to do that with reach if I remember correctly. But like you said, I'd rather everything just be transparent now, even if it means going to a simple win rank up lose rank down system without much reward for individual effort. I don't want to see someone's csr. I just want to know what their matchmaking rank is and mine.
Click to expand...

Ha that's from my twitter I am 99% sure. I posted that a few weeks ago and looks like someone then posted it on Team Beyond. It comes from the official H2 strategy guide.

Edit: Nope not from my twitter. But it still does come from the H2 strategy guide. I guess everyone has had their binding start to break down after all this time, I thought it was just mine that was super crappy.
 
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