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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

Fuchsdh

Member
They have Infinity, which almost surely has armor fabrication and repair stations.

Indeed, although it would be weird in a limited resource situation they'd be fielding so many permutations of armor.*

*I mean, this has never made sense, even back in Halo 3, and I guess in the postwar boom and Spartans going mainstream it made more sense, but I've always just hand waved the post-Halo 4 stuff as skunkworks testing. No one *actually* is going into battle with the Keurig helmet.
 

Toa Freak

Neo Member
Indeed, although it would be weird in a limited resource situation they'd be fielding so many permutations of armor.*

*I mean, this has never made sense, even back in Halo 3, and I guess in the postwar boom and Spartans going mainstream it made more sense, but I've always just hand waved the post-Halo 4 stuff as skunkworks testing. No one *actually* is going into battle with the Keurig helmet.

I personally like to think at lot of the armor sets in Halo 5 are prototypes or, as you said, skunkworks models. Basically, the UNSC pulling out everything they have to fight the created. Some of the lore for the classic helmets in the last update actually supports this, too (depending on interpretation).

ONI teams responsible for information sanitization operations on Created-occupied Earth have access to cutting-edge stealth and cyberwarfare suites. Among these tools are upgraded and up-armored RECON [GEN1] helmets custom-made for individual operatives.
 
My go-to guess is that they'll use the new galactic status quo as a reasoning to pivot back to the older design to an extent as the UNSC remnants are forced to break out the museum pieces, as it were. That + the resource crunch will probably give us a mixture of old style stuff, old style stuff that's been uparmored a la the new HW2 dudes, and newer stuff. They gotta have a wide variety of unlocks to sustain the new funding model, but that should allow them to axe the more wildly unpopular designs like the Keurig.

Feels weird to speculate on this stuff knowing Frankie might be right there.

Watching.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
My go-to guess is that they'll use the new galactic status quo as a reasoning to pivot back to the older design to an extent as the UNSC remnants are forced to break out the museum pieces, as it were. That + the resource crunch will probably give us a mixture of old style stuff, old style stuff that's been uparmored a la the new HW2 dudes, and newer stuff. They gotta have a wide variety of unlocks to sustain the new funding model, but that should allow them to axe the more wildly unpopular designs like the Keurig.

Feels weird to speculate on this stuff knowing Frankie might be right there.

Watching.

This seems like incredibly wishful thinking among the "bring back Bungie art style" crowds (which, is certainly plenty of people, but ain't no delusion like a mass delusion.)
 
This seems like incredibly wishful thinking among the "bring back Bungie art style" crowds (which, is certainly plenty of people, but ain't no delusion like a mass delusion.)

How so? I don't think that they're gonna just wholesale go back to the old style, which seems more the tack those guys take. Hell, I don't really want them to. I'm just expecting to see more of it going forward considering the narrative setup.
 
Frank O'Connor officially referenced nano-machines in reference to the Chief's new armor here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjswoU39AOY

Jessica Shea also mentioned that the Chief's new armor was "Cortana special armor", and the Halo 4 Essential Visual Guide notes that Cortana based the Chief's new armor on an interation of Mk. IV.

So no, the firmware line was not the reason people think nanomachines were involved. There is direct evidence to support it.

l o l way to go Stinkles
 

Akai__

Member
Frank O'Connor officially referenced nano-machines in reference to the Chief's new armor here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjswoU39AOY

"Making repairs to Chiefs armor" is not making completely new armor and yes, at that time, it was "artistic freedom". I read the post on this forum, because people were actually going off about how bad/good the new armor looked. Plus, I also read that that technology would not be available on the Forward Unto Dawn, so I'm not sure how that would work.

But hey, it's 343i, so it doesn't really surprise me anyways. Their way of handling anything in the expanded universe is bad.
 

Toa Freak

Neo Member
"Making repairs to Chiefs armor" is not making completely new armor and yes, at that time, it was "artistic freedom". I read the post on this forum, because people were actually going off about how bad/good the new armor looked.

It still covers the use of nanomachines, which, combined with other sources, paints a very clear picture of what happened in those 4 years.

Plus, I also read that that technology would not be available on the Forward Unto Dawn, so I'm not sure how that would work.

Don't know where you read that.

But hey, it's 343i, so it doesn't really surprise me anyways. Their way of handling anything in the expanded universe is bad.

What? 343's been doing significantly better with the EU than Bungie did. Way more books, consistent quality, and tons of guide. I mean, we're getting Warfleet later this year.
 

Akai__

Member
What? 343's been doing significantly better with the EU than Bungie did. Way more books, consistent quality, and tons of guide. I mean, we're getting Warfleet later this year.

Q7iUrO9.jpg


You lost me man.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I'd be happy to hear how 343's EU management is worse than Bungie's.

Please qualify what you consider good EU management.

The novels during Bungie's era were all excellent. I didn't like the Reach retcon though.

I'm in the minority, but I also loved Kilo-5 which is 343 era.

I'm in the minority, but I hated the Forerunner saga, which is 343 era.

I also hate how 343 EU it's basically required reading if you expect any character development these days. We even had crucial H5 narrative information revealed in book released well after the game.

The way EU characters have been handled in game leaves much to be desired, so far. Blue Team + Jul Mdama = ball dropped.

The sheer amount of EU 343 has put out is... something... but it ranges in quality from aweful to amazing.

Neither studio is perfect with regards to EU. But the strategy of making the games self-contained stories, THEN using the EU to compliment the games is the better approach. I'd give Bungie the edge there.
 
What? 343's been doing significantly better with the EU than Bungie did. Way more books, consistent quality, and tons of guide. I mean, we're getting Warfleet later this year.

They have definitely been delivering more consistent EU material throughout their time managing the Halo Universe, but I can't really comment on the quality of them. I did hear that Greg Bear did a great job with his Forerunner Saga, though.

However, my huge issue with how 343i is dealing with the EU is that they're trying to integrate the mainline games into it too heavily. Although Halo 4 had probably the best written story out of any Halo game, a majority of the fanbase could not follow what was going on in it because it demanded too much knowledge of the lore. I hated it when I first played it because of this, but after reading up on some background info and watching the terminals I was able to gain a greater appreciation for it. And I don't even know what was going on with Halo 5's story, I feel like it tried to appeal to the mainline crowd by replacing the Didact with Cortana so there would be a level of familiarity with the antagonist and make a story very grounded in established lore (UNSC/ONI environments, a glassed planet, Sanghelios, mysterious "Forerunner"-like areas, typical AI takeover plot-line), but it was just a bad call that made for a messy story, and along with a severe lack of Master Chief, turned a lot of fans off from it. Hopefully for Halo 6 they'll be able to get it right.
 
On Saturday, July 8, at 11 AM in meeting room 9, 343 will be hosting a Halo panel with some very special guests:
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Frank O’Connor – Franchise Creative Director, 343 Industries
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Burnie Burns - Co-founder of RoosterTeeth
4WeMI66.gif

Tom French - Multiplayer Director, 343 Industries
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Joseph Staten – Senior Creative Director, Microsoft Studios (and former Halo series director)
b6fyd3w.gif
 

Trup1aya

Member
I'm sorry guys, I'm absolutely thrilled...

LAN support,
MP that works consistently
OG firefight
No sprint
Tons of good dev maps

I'm more than willing to sacrifice 1080p60 for that. MCC was supposed to be the chosen one, but this will do!
 
I'm sorry guys, I'm absolutely thrilled...

LAN support,
MP that works consistently
OG firefight
No sprint
Tons of good dev maps

I'm more than willing to sacrifice 1080p60 for that. MCC was supposed to be the chosen one, but this will do!

Oh forgot that this wasn't in MCC. Consider me excited.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
On the plus side here maybe all the Halo 3 people will leave the MCC and I can get something that isn't a Halo 3 map in Team Slayer
 

Toa Freak

Neo Member
Please qualify what you consider good EU management.

The novels during Bungie's era were all excellent. I didn't like the Reach retcon though.

And god did Bungie hate the existence of those novels. The push for them at all was mainly on the Microsoft side of the Bungie/MS relationship, with involvement from the Halo Franchise Development team, which is essentially the precursor to 343.

I'm in the minority, but I also loved Kilo-5 which is 343 era.

I'm in the minority, but I hated the Forerunner saga, which is 343 era.

Personally, love the Forerunner Saga, was okay with Glasslands and Thursday War, hated Mortal Dictata.

I also hate how 343 EU it's basically required reading if you expect any character development these days. We even had crucial H5 narrative information revealed in book released well after the game.

It's far from required reading. Short of Blue Team's sudden appearance in H5, most things are at least touched upon in the games, if not straight up explained.

I'm not sure what book you're referring to. The only "crucial" info I remember being release post H5 was the conclusion to the Absolute Record arc.

The way EU characters have been handled in game leaves much to be desired, so far. Blue Team + Jul Mdama = ball dropped.

I agree with you there. Although Jul's development in general was piss poor, regardless of whether it was the books or the games.

Neither studio is perfect with regards to EU. But the strategy of making the games self-contained stories, THEN using the EU to compliment the games is the better approach. I'd give Bungie the edge there.

Then Bungie failed. CE doesn't make a lot of sense without The Fall of Reach or at least reading the game manual, and Halo 3 is full of plot holes. Bungie just knew how to make the games fun enough to distract you from asking too many questions.


However, my huge issue with how 343i is dealing with the EU is that they're trying to integrate the mainline games into it too heavily. Although Halo 4 had probably the best written story out of any Halo game, a majority of the fanbase could not follow what was going on in it because it demanded too much knowledge of the lore.

It really didn't. I'd say it didn't do a great job of delivering the necessary information to the player, but it's all there.

And I don't even know what was going on with Halo 5's story, I feel like it tried to appeal to the mainline crowd by replacing the Didact with Cortana so there would be a level of familiarity with the antagonist and make a story very grounded in established lore (UNSC/ONI environments, a glassed planet, Sanghelios, mysterious "Forerunner"-like areas, typical AI takeover plot-line), but it was just a bad call that made for a messy story, and along with a severe lack of Master Chief, turned a lot of fans off from it. Hopefully for Halo 6 they'll be able to get it right.

On it's own, Halo 5 does make sense. Almost everything necessary is explained (who Osiris is, what's going on, etc). Blue Team's existence is the notable standout.

The lack of Master Chief was not the problem, if you ask me, however. Chief & Blue Team levels should have been cut entirely. The problem with them is that they spoiled any mystery about why Blue Team went AWOL, and confirmed way too quickly that Cortana was alive.

Imagine, instead of playing as Blue Team, you return to Infinity and find these legendary Spartans are now rogue. Then, on Meridian, when you first encounter the Warden Eternal, that's when you first hear about Cortana.
 

FyreWulff

Member
"every Xbox 360 Halo add-on map pack in the Xbox Store will be made available for free"

thank you. This is great even for people still on the 360, especially Reach which never got an "all DLC" version.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Imagine, instead of playing as Blue Team, you return to Infinity and find these legendary Spartans are now rogue. Then, on Meridian, when you first encounter the Warden Eternal, that's when you first hear about Cortana.

But then you lose Blue Team, which is definitely one of the best 343 campaign missions and at least for me in the great tier for the entire franchise.
 
It really didn't. I'd say it didn't do a great job of delivering the necessary information to the player, but it's all there.
The existence of the Covenant, the identity of the Librarian, and the motivations of the Didact were all inadequately explained without help from the Terminals or the EU. While the story of Master Chief and Cortana was handled well through and through, the surrounding expository elements were given no explanation. This is why a lot of it was dropped for Halo 5, because since Cortana's character was finished (at the time), nothing else had legs to carry a narrative into a sequel.
 

Toa Freak

Neo Member
The existence of the Covenant, the identity of the Librarian, and the motivations of the Didact were all inadequately explained without help from the Terminals or the EU. While the story of Master Chief and Cortana was handled well through and through, the surrounding expository elements were given no explanation. This is why a lot of it was dropped for Halo 5, because since Cortana's character was finished (at the time), nothing else had legs to carry a narrative into a sequel.

I don't see why the Covenant needed much more of an explanation than it had in the game.

The Librarian's identity is sufficiently explained in her cutscene during the campaign, and expanded upon in Spartan Ops.

Terminals are part of the game experience. The Didact's motivations are also explained in the Librarian cutscene.

At worst, it was explained in as much details as anything was in the Bungie games.
 
I don't see why the Covenant needed much more of an explanation than it had in the game.

The Librarian's identity is sufficiently explained in her cutscene during the campaign, and expanded upon in Spartan Ops.

Terminals are part of the game experience. The Didact's motivations are also explained in the Librarian cutscene.

At worst, it was explained in as much details as anything was in the Bungie games.
I don't mind being kept in the dark about the Covenant for the beginning of the game because the player (unless they kept up with the EU) is just as clueless as the Chief when it comes to what's going on, however by the time he linked up with Infinity it would've been nice to get a little more info. However they did have bigger fish to fry at the time.

I think that cutscene where they try to cram lore that took a number of books to flesh out into two minutes may have gone over a lot of player's head and could have made the player get even more lost, which was at least the case with everyone I talked about Halo 4's story with.

Once again, two minutes of rushed exposition is not enough and I can guarantee you that the average player will either not find all the Terminals and/or just ignore them. Critical information to the narrative should not be dropped in purely optional content; one thing Halo 5 did well was use DataPads to tell aditional stories, not essential ones.

Bungie stories were always lighter on the story and served more as context for the player to have while shooting aliens, but for the most part all of their stories were clear and concise, despite clashing with the EU at times unfortunately.
 

Trup1aya

Member
And god did Bungie hate the existence of those novels. The push for them at all was mainly on the Microsoft side of the Bungie/MS relationship, with involvement from the Halo Franchise Development team, which is essentially the precursor to 343.

That's all irrelevant to the end result. We had a good EU, and we had a cohesive narrative on the game side of things as well. Perhaps Bungie's sentiment towards them was for the better.

Personally, love the Forerunner Saga, was okay with Glasslands and Thursday War, hated Mortal Dictata.

Yeah I'm in the minority when it comes to these sentiments. The grounded, moral grey-area, political-espionage angle was much more captivating thanthe technobabble, space magic, walk-a-thon angle of Bear's work, IMO


It's far from required reading. Short of Blue Team's sudden appearance in H5, most things are at least touched upon in the games, if not straight up explained.

If by 'explained' you mean hidden away in terminals, or
Exposition condensed into a single cutscene, then perhaps it wasn't required reading. But more than a few people walked away from H4 not having a clue who/what the Didact & Librarian were, why humanity was a target, or even that Ancient Humanity was a thing. That's a terrible way to handle getting the audience up to speed on the universe.

These things should not be "touched on", or hastily explained. They should be experienced.

I'm not sure what book you're referring to. The only "crucial" info I remember being release post H5 was the conclusion to the Absolute Record arc.

Absolute Record isn't crucial, because almost no one even played Spartan Ops. Questions like "wtf is the domain and why should I care?" and "How is Cortana alive? I just saw the ship get nuked" have answers that players should be privy to, not just people who follow the EU.

I agree with you there. Although Jul's development in general was piss poor, regardless of whether it was the books or the games.
I disagree, Jul is one of the best characters (if not THE BEST) in all of Halo.

Then Bungie failed. CE doesn't make a lot of sense without The Fall of Reach or at least reading the game manual, and Halo 3 is full of plot holes. Bungie just knew how to make the games fun enough to distract you from asking too many questions.

CE makes plenty of sense without reading anything at all. Which parts didn't make sense? You quickly learn that you are the last of a breed of super soldiers, and after your ship crash lands on an alien artifact, you must uncover its secrets before your enemies use it to finalize their genocide on humanity. That's the plot.

You even learn through gameplay that humans have some connection with Forerunner tech that the covenant might be jealous of. You don't need to know anything external to follow this self contained story.

Plot holes are really a different discussion from EU management. We can have that discussion, but H5 is a giant plot hole in and of itself.

It really didn't. I'd say it didn't do a great job of delivering the necessary information to the player, but it's all there.

Sorry man, terminals are essentially additional reading. Only a fraction of players ever access them, so "it's all there" is really an empty comment. You don't tell critical stories via hidden Easter eggs

On it's own, Halo 5 does make sense. Almost everything necessary is explained (who Osiris is, what's going on, etc). Blue Team's existence is the notable standout.

Major plot points are completely ignored.
  • where did this Cortana come from
  • why is she compelled to rule instead of serve as programmed
  • wtf is the domain
  • why was Cortana able to talk to chief after he got knocked out by a Hunter?
  • why is Blue team listening, without question, to a guy who says he heared the voice of a dead friend moments after he got knocked out.
  • why is she calling all these Guardians to Genesis only to redeploy them right back where they came from

The lack of Master Chief was not the problem, if you ask me, however. Chief & Blue Team levels should have been cut entirely. The problem with them is that they spoiled any mystery about why Blue Team went AWOL, and confirmed way too quickly that Cortana was alive.

Perhaps that would've been better. But the "mystery" was contrived in the first place.

Imagine, instead of playing as Blue Team, you return to Infinity and find these legendary Spartans are now rogue. Then, on Meridian, when you first encounter the Warden Eternal, that's when you first hear about Cortana.

I think H5 would be to early reveal Cortana as the main baddie. They should have first established the rules of the universe? How can a rampant AI be spared? are there more massive Forerunner Weapons? What is the domain? who are the new faces of the UNCS and why should I care about them? The Cortana angle was never earned.
 
Yeah but MCC still has them at 60 FPS and 1080p.

60 fps mcc > 30 fps bc.

On the bright side you have H2:A's campaign.

Thank you my dudes. I feel better about my purchase.


And Jul was a fantastic character.... IN THE BOOKS/COMIC. He gets a Covenant splinter faction to follow him, and he plays along with the Great Journey nonsense even though he doesn't believe in it, just so he can have his army and seek revenge on the UNSC and the Arbiters faction. He's far more complex and interesting than "main Elite baddie" in the game. Such a bummer.
 

Toa Freak

Neo Member
If by 'explained' you mean hidden away in terminals, or
Exposition condensed into a single cutscene, then perhaps it wasn't required reading. But more than a few people walked away from H4 not having a clue who/what the Didact & Librarian were, why humanity was a target, or even that Ancient Humanity was a thing. That's a terrible way to handle getting the audience up to speed on the universe.

I had the impression you were talking about H5 specifically there. In regards to Halo 4, yeah, things could be been done better, but it is all in game, with the terminals providing additional context.

Absolute Record isn't crucial, because almost no one even played Spartan Ops. Questions like "wtf is the domain and why should I care?" and "How is Cortana alive? I just saw the ship get nuked" have answers that players should be privy to, not just people who follow the EU.

There's nothing in the EU that explains how Cortana is alive. That was explained in game, directly to the Chief, but Cortana herself. The Domain is also explained in-game, sufficiently enough at least for what's required to understand its use in the game.


I disagree, Jul is one of the best characters (if not THE BEST) in all of Halo.

To each their own, but I found his handling to be extremely poor. There was great set up in Glasslands and Thursday War, but then he's entirely abandoned for Mortal Dictata. Then, he doesn't appear at all in H4's campaign, and his appearance in SpOps was disappointing. He never takes direct part in the story we experience as Crimson, and basically acts as a background villain the whole time.

CE makes plenty of sense without reading anything at all. Which parts didn't make sense?

What's Reach? What's the Covenant? Why are we at war with them?

You even learn through gameplay that humans have some connection with Forerunner tech that the covenant might be jealous of. You don't need to know anything external to follow this self contained story.

I beg to differ, but at this point, anything I say is going to be anecdotal, at best.

Plot holes are really a different discussion from EU management. We can have that discussion, but H5 is a giant plot hole in and of itself.

Arguably, but the discussion was, at least in part, the dependence of the games on the EU. I was pointing out that Halo 3 makes very little sense without EU help.

And no, Halo 5 is not a giant plot hole. It's a bad story, but not a plot hole.

Sorry man, terminals are essentially additional reading. Only a fraction of players ever access them, so "it's all there" is really an empty comment. You don't tell critical stories via hidden Easter eggs

It's still part of the game. If the players want to know the full story, it's on them to find the terminals or audio logs or whatever else.

Major plot points are completely ignored.
  • where did this Cortana come from
  • why is she compelled to rule instead of serve as programmed
  • wtf is the domain
  • why was Cortana able to talk to chief after he got knocked out by a Hunter?
  • why is Blue team listening, without question, to a guy who says he heared the voice of a dead friend moments after he got knocked out.
  • why is she calling all these Guardians to Genesis only to redeploy them right back where they came from

- Cortana is explained by Cortana herself
- The Domain is explained, too, by Cortana and Dr. Halsey.
- A good question to be sure. THAT does require EU knowledge. Although on could argue Halo 4 hints at this ability when the Didact's voice starts appearing in the Chief's head.
- She isn't deploying them where they came from.

[
Perhaps that would've been better. But the "mystery" was contrived in the first place.

Definitely could have been a better story, I was just going with how to improve the player experience, in my opinion, while keeping the basic story intact.
 

Karl2177

Member
Thank you my dudes. I feel better about my purchase.


And Jul was a fantastic character.... IN THE BOOKS/COMIC. He gets a Covenant splinter faction to follow him, and he plays along with the Great Journey nonsense even though he doesn't believe in it, just so he can have his army and seek revenge on the UNSC and the Arbiters faction. He's far more complex and interesting than "main Elite baddie" in the game. Such a bummer.
Remember when they were like "Hey let's setup this Elite as a bad guy in Spartan Ops and he'll be a big adversary throughout the saga." *1 game later* "Fuck it, kill him in a cutscene"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's introduce this ancient evil for Master Chief to fight through the reclaimer saga." *3 months and a few comic books later* "Fuck it, kill him in a comic book where the artists can't draw in the lines"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's do something bold and kill off Cortana" *1 game later and multiple villains killed off* "Fuck it, bring her back we need bad guys"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's bring back this interesting adversary from the Bungie games in a book about Forerunners" *infinite games and novels later* "Fuck it, where did we leave guilty spark"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's create a whole world for the player to learn about" *10 Spartan Ops episodes later* "Fuck it, throw it in the sun, no loose ends you shits"

Remember when they were like "Hey, you can go anywhere in this world, you see those mountains over there" *1 massive anger filled post in some nerd video game forum* "Fuck it, that was Bungie"

Remember when they were like "Hey, we have a cool new villain introduced in the Halo Wars sequel" *in progress* "Fuck it, I'm just waiting for the train wreck with Atriox and the Banished."
 

Trup1aya

Member
I had the impression you were talking about H5 specifically there. In regards to Halo 4, yeah, things could be been done better, but it is all in game, with the terminals providing additional context.

Terminals are essentially EU. H4s didn't provide additional context. They provided material essential to understanding the narrative. Being technically "in the game" doesn't make it ok

There's nothing in the EU that explains how Cortana is alive. That was explained in game, directly to the Chief, but Cortana herself. The Domain is also explained in-game, sufficiently enough at least for what's required to understand its use in the game.

Cortana's survival and teaming with Warden Eternal was explained in material released after H5. I can't recall the name of the anthology atm.

The domain hasn't been sufficiently explained in the EU let alone in game. Its H5s equivalent of "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain"

To each their own, but I found his handling to be extremely poor. There was great set up in Glasslands and Thursday War, but then he's entirely abandoned for Mortal Dictata. Then, he doesn't appear at all in H4's campaign, and his appearance in SpOps was disappointing. He never takes direct part in the story we experience as Crimson, and basically acts as a background villain the whole time.

He was an excellently developed character in the EU, but totally wasted in the games, then killed off unceremoniously. He was a great character, woefully underutilized. That's my point.

What's Reach? What's the Covenant? Why are we at war with them?

That is backstory. Halo CE's story was self contained- you don't NEED an answer to any of those questions in order to understand the sequence of events presented before you.

You don't HAVE to know why Americans are fighting Germans to follow the plot of Fury- Because it's a self contained story being told WITHIN that conflict.

H4 tells the story in a way that assumes the player has gathered critical information from external media or hidden Easter eggs. The existence of H5s main antagonist directly contradicts the ending of the previous installment, and this massive contraction is explained away by name dropping a device the means nothing to people who haven't read 3 Halo books.

Surely you see the difference. H4 and 5 aren't missing back story (which is ok to omit) they are missing vital bits of the story they are telling.


I beg to differ, but at this point, anything I say is going to be anecdotal, at best.

It's really not anecdotal. It's Bungie subtlety showing you instead of telling you. Throughout the whole game, the convenant struggle to use tech that instantly responds to chief. The monitor calls you and other humans 'reclaimer' and tries to use YOUR hand to launch the ring, he even mistakes you for someone he knew in the past. As the player, you notice that you have a connection to this place that the Covenant don't (even though it's a valuable peice of their religion) and through that, begin to together the source of the conflict.

Arguably, but the discussion was, at least in part, the dependence of the games on the EU. I was pointing out that Halo 3 makes very little sense without EU help.

In what way?

And no, Halo 5 is not a giant plot hole. It's a bad story, but not a plot hole.

It's missing giant important peices of plot.


It's still part of the game. If the players want to know the full story, it's on them to find the terminals or audio logs or whatever else.

What a convienient technicality. Why even have dialog and cutscenes then? Let's just let players access the narrative in text form via the main menu, it's in the game so it counts right? /s

If the story isn't being told via the sights and sounds of gameplay, then it's, essentially, external. The fact that terminals are triggered in-game is irrelevant, especially when they are hidden and non essential to proceed.

- Cortana is explained by Cortana herself
- The Domain is explained, too, by Cortana and Dr. Halsey.
- A good question to be sure. THAT does require EU knowledge. Although on could argue Halo 4 hints at this ability when the Didact's voice starts appearing in the Chief's head.
- She isn't deploying them where they came from.

They aren't explained. They are loosely mentioned. Where IS she deploying them then? The populations she is policing them with LIVE on the planets they were pulled from.

QUOTE=Toa Freak;242755365]
Definitely could have been a better story, I was just going with how to improve the player experience, in my opinion, while keeping the basic story intact.[/QUOTE]
 

Toa Freak

Neo Member
Remember when they were like "Hey let's setup this Elite as a bad guy in Spartan Ops and he'll be a big adversary throughout the saga." *1 game later* "Fuck it, kill him in a cutscene"

Jul was never meant to be a big adversary throughout the Saga. That role was for the Didact.

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's introduce this ancient evil for Master Chief to fight through the reclaimer saga." *3 months and a few comic books later* "Fuck it, kill him in a comic book where the artists can't draw in the lines"

The Didact isn't dead.
 

Toa Freak

Neo Member
Terminals are essentially EU. H4s didn't provide additional context. They provided material essential to understanding the narrative. Being technically "in the game" doesn't make it ok

No they aren't. They're unlocked in the game. Yes, you have to launch a separate app to view them, which is unfortunate to say the least, but they are not EU.

Cortana's survival and teaming with Warden Eternal was explained in material released after H5. I can't recall the name of the anthology atm.

If you want to call Dominion Splinter an explanation, sure. It's still explained in-game, and expanded on in the terminals. Dominion Splinter barely adds anything new.

The domain hasn't been sufficiently explained in the EU let alone in game. Its H5s equivalent of "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain"

Not even close. From the first cinematic of Glassed:

Halsey: "I tried to warn you this was happening! Cortana is no longer an asset, Captain. She is a danger. She has accessed the Forerunner Domain, a galaxy-spanning network-"

From Reunion:

Cortana (COM): "After I saw John last, I was pulled into slipspace. That's where I found access to the Domain -- a Forerunner system that spans the known galaxy."

There you go. Two instance of the Domain being explained. It's a major oversimplification if you know the EU, but for the sake of Halo 5, it gets the point across.

He was an excellently developed character in the EU, but totally wasted in the games, then killed off unceremoniously. He was a great character, woefully underutilized. That's my point.

He was woefully underutilized, but he was far from a "great character".

In what way

- Why didn't Cortana blow up In Amber Clad when she was confronted by the Gravemind (technically H2, but regardless)?
- How did Miranda, Johnson, and Arbiter get back to Earth, ahead of Truth, no less?
- How did the Gravemind get to the Ark so quickly?
- Why does Cortana know about the Ark?

That is backstory. Halo CE's story was self contained- you don't NEED an answer to any of those questions in order to understand the sequence of events presented before you.

Where IS she deploying them then? The populations she is policing them with LIVE on the planets they were pulled from.

Where isn't important at the moment. And yeah, people live on the planets they were pulled from, but short of Sanghelios, none were major population centers like Earth or other homeworlds. There are larger targets.
 
Remember when they were like "Hey let's setup this Elite as a bad guy in Spartan Ops and he'll be a big adversary throughout the saga." *1 game later* "Fuck it, kill him in a cutscene"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's introduce this ancient evil for Master Chief to fight through the reclaimer saga." *3 months and a few comic books later* "Fuck it, kill him in a comic book where the artists can't draw in the lines"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's do something bold and kill off Cortana" *1 game later and multiple villains killed off* "Fuck it, bring her back we need bad guys"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's bring back this interesting adversary from the Bungie games in a book about Forerunners" *infinite games and novels later* "Fuck it, where did we leave guilty spark"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's create a whole world for the player to learn about" *10 Spartan Ops episodes later* "Fuck it, throw it in the sun, no loose ends you shits"

Remember when they were like "Hey, you can go anywhere in this world, you see those mountains over there" *1 massive anger filled post in some nerd video game forum* "Fuck it, that was Bungie"

Remember when they were like "Hey, we have a cool new villain introduced in the Halo Wars sequel" *in progress* "Fuck it, I'm just waiting for the train wreck with Atriox and the Banished."

This is some truth. salty about spartan ops ending for reals man.
 

Trup1aya

Member
No they aren't. They're unlocked in the game. Yes, you have to launch a separate app to view them, which is unfortunate to say the least, but they are not EU.

They are essentially EU- media that the majority of the playerbase will never consume.
The fact that they can be unlocked in-game doesn't change the fact the few will ever view that content. That's why only non-essential content (EU) should ever be locked in this manner.

The fact that we are talking about critical content being "locked" at all is, more than unfortunate.

If you want to call Dominion Splinter an explanation, sure. It's still explained in-game, and expanded on in the terminals. Dominion Splinter barely adds anything new.

Where was it "explained" in game?

Not even close. From the first cinematic of Glassed:

Halsey: "I tried to warn you this was happening! Cortana is no longer an asset, Captain. She is a danger. She has accessed the Forerunner Domain, a galaxy-spanning network-"

From Reunion:

Cortana (COM): "After I saw John last, I was pulled into slipspace. That's where I found access to the Domain -- a Forerunner system that spans the known galaxy."

There you go. Two instance of the Domain being explained. It's a major oversimplification if you know the EU, but for the sake of Halo 5, it gets the point across.

I smirked when reading this. As I said before this is not explaination. This isn't even exposition. It's a passing mention. And it isn't even accurate ! Haha.

He was woefully underutilized, but he was far from a "great character".

I don't know many who feel this way. What was wrong with his character?


- Why didn't Cortana blow up In Amber Clad when she was confronted by the Gravemind (technically H2, but regardless)?
- How did Miranda, Johnson, and Arbiter get back to Earth, ahead of Truth, no less?
- How did the Gravemind get to the Ark so quickly?
- Why does Cortana know about the Ark?

Again, Plot holes are one thing, but H5 fails to develop evil Cortana in anyway, which leads to additional questions about here strategy. Not only that but an impossible message sent directly to chief by Cortana is THE event that set the narrative in motion, how can they completely gloss over how that happened?

Where isn't important at the moment. And yeah, people live on the planets they were pulled from, but short of Sanghelios, none were major population centers like Earth or other homeworlds. There are larger targets.

how is 'where' not important? Also, they were apparently pulled from numerous worlds of various sizes, some rather large. Scores of people died in the process.

Why pool them all in genesis at all? At somepoint you realize that it was just a contrived way to reunite Osiris and Blue team via Sanghelios - a planet that was convieniently ending its civil war right as Cortana summons a Gaurdian.
 
Remember when they were like "Hey let's setup this Elite as a bad guy in Spartan Ops and he'll be a big adversary throughout the saga." *1 game later* "Fuck it, kill him in a cutscene"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's introduce this ancient evil for Master Chief to fight through the reclaimer saga." *3 months and a few comic books later* "Fuck it, kill him in a comic book where the artists can't draw in the lines"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's do something bold and kill off Cortana" *1 game later and multiple villains killed off* "Fuck it, bring her back we need bad guys"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's bring back this interesting adversary from the Bungie games in a book about Forerunners" *infinite games and novels later* "Fuck it, where did we leave guilty spark"

Remember when they were like "Hey, let's create a whole world for the player to learn about" *10 Spartan Ops episodes later* "Fuck it, throw it in the sun, no loose ends you shits"

Remember when they were like "Hey, you can go anywhere in this world, you see those mountains over there" *1 massive anger filled post in some nerd video game forum* "Fuck it, that was Bungie"

Remember when they were like "Hey, we have a cool new villain introduced in the Halo Wars sequel" *in progress* "Fuck it, I'm just waiting for the train wreck with Atriox and the Banished."
Goddamn.. Being a Halo fan is great, but also roughhhh because of decisions like these. So disappointing how these things keep happening :[
 
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