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[Trup1aya]

All im saying is for one company, the engine is its bread and butter. For the other, it isnt. Sure, they could "invest" in making one thats multipurpose like Unreal or frostbite, but considering 343 cant even do the fucking game right yet, id rather they concentrate on that and leave the engines to the experts.

saw your previous edit late.

Nah, I don't expect "the same results" as Unreal, whose business is selling the engine. But other first party studio's have engines that continue to wow. Naughty Dog, Decima for example.

Other engines that aren't licensed are striking as well, like Frostbite and Rage. I expect MS' premier studio to continue to mentioned amongst the greats.

At this point, I don't see that approach being taken. I'm just saying it would have been cool if 343s first order of business, rather than H4, was to create a engine designed from the ground up to bring Halo to next gen.

 

[HTupolev]

Disagree with the notion that halo's engine is producing state of the art results at this point.

I didn't mean that it's producing state of the art results. And that's subjective, at any rate. My point is that their methodology isn't far off from what you're saying it should be, besides release schedule.

 

[VincentMatts]

saw your previous edit late.

Nah, I don't expect "the same results" as Unreal, whose business is selling the engine. But other first party studio's have engines that continue to wow. Naughty Dog, Decima for example.

Other engines that aren't licensed are striking as well, like Frostbite and Rage. I expect MS' premier studio to continue to mentioned amongst the greats.

At this point, I don't see that approach being taken. I'm just saying it would have been cool if 343s first order of business, rather than H4, was to create a engine designed from the ground up to bring Halo to next gen.

I agree

 

[Trup1aya]

I didn't mean that it's producing state of the art results. And that's subjective, at any rate. My point is that their methodology isn't far off from what you're saying it should be, besides release schedule.

I mean, every company is gonna update their engines between releases. That goes without saying.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

I agree with Trup on this one. It's not like Halo looks like butt, but in comparison to the majority of AAA titles Halo looks mediocre graphically (even artistically imo).

I'll hold the unpopular opinion that targeting 60fps on console isn't all that it's cracked up to be. There's too many sacrifices being made. 30fps on console with modern motion blur techniques looks good to me. One of the main advantages of 60+ frames is on pc where you can move your mouse quickly and precisely. Joysticks on controllers don't get the leap of advantages that the mouse users will. I'll keep enjoying my 144hz monitor on PC, but I don't mind 30fps on console.

 

[jem0208]

I agree with Trup on this one. It's not like Halo looks like butt, but in comparison to the majority of AAA titles Halo looks mediocre graphically (even artistically imo).

I'll hold the unpopular opinion that targeting 60fps on console isn't all that it's cracked up to be. There's too many sacrifices being made. 30fps on console with modern motion blur techniques looks good to me. One of the main advantages of 60+ frames is on pc where you can move your mouse quickly and precisely. Joysticks on controllers don't get the leap of advantages that the mouse users will. I'll keep enjoying my 144hz monitor on PC, but I don't mind 30fps on console.

Please no.

I went from playing H5 to the Destiny 2 beta and it was almost sickening.

It has a genuine impact on how enjoyable the game is. Going back to the old Halos on the 360 is painful now.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Please no.

I went from playing H5 to the Destiny 2 beta and it was almost sickening.

It has a genuine impact on how enjoyable the game is. Going back to the old Halos on the 360 is painful now.

Yeah I get that, but I experience both ends of the spectrum and it's just what I've come to expect from consoles. I can logically argue why 60fps on console are far less advantageous forever, but yes it does indeed look/feel nicer. However, millions of people on Xbox and PS4 will be playing Destiny 2 and not give a crap about the framerate.

On PC it matters to me as long as I'm using a mouse. On console I just don't care anymore. It's not worth it.

 

[Fata1moose]

30 FPS feels like complete butt. No way in hell they should ever go back.

 

[TCKaos]

Of those of you that want a new engine, what features do you want out of a new engine that you think the current one can't accomplish?

I'm not taking a position on the issue, I'm just curious.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Reboot, going back to 30fps, what's next Fahz? lol

 

[Fata1moose]

Of those of you that want a new engine, what features do you want out of a new engine that you think the current one can't accomplish?

I'm not taking a position on the issue, I'm just curious.

I'm sure they're all software engineers and have a good idea of what they're talking about.

 

[FyreWulff]

So did you skip all the articles where the Mass Effect team had to actually implement all of the little subsystems to even run an RPG in Frostbite? Even with the renderer, it was still built around Battlefield, not RPGs.

Halo 5 engine barely resembles the Halo 1 era engine outside of some familiar terms and technology which is a matter of opinion and not really able to have an objectively better replacement.

 

[Trup1aya]

So did you skip all the articles where the Mass Effect team had to actually implement all of the little subsystems to even run an RPG in Frostbite? Even with the renderer, it was still built around Battlefield, not RPGs.

Halo 5 engine barely resembles the Halo 1 era engine outside of some familiar terms and technology which is a matter of opinion and not really able to have an objectively better replacement.

Why are we talking about RPGs? Frostbite is great for FPS.

Of those of you that want a new engine, what features do you want out of a new engine that you think the current one can't accomplish?

I'm not taking a position on the issue, I'm just curious.

I'd like to ditch dynamic res, add better texture filtering. Push the half-rate rendering much further back, fix whatever is weird about the dynamic shadows,better alpha effects, better LODs, return of over-the-top physics and dynamic AI, a better looking PBR solution, with enough overhead, with neccisary items being scalable to facilitate splitscreen and P2P

 

[TCKaos]

Why are we talking about RPGs? Frostbite is great for FPS.

We're talking about it because it's what 343i would necessarily have to go through with the implementation of a new engine. Every single subroutine within the game would need to be rewritten from scratch - from the barebones fundamentals like weapon ballistics to every single nuance that the AI had or could have had, to all of the matchmaking systems and algorithms, and the entirety of Forge, or theatre, and what have you. They can't just be ported, they have to be built from the ground up, and you have to hope that they're close enough to the old engine to not create a sort of dissonance to where it doesn't feel like Halo anymore.

The features that I'd like to see implemented are mostly quality of life improvements to make it easier to manufacture content for the game - things like making it as easy as possible to implement and modify maps and gametypes in matchmaking, refinement of the matchmaking algorithm (like actually using ELO instead of lying about it for over a year), more direct Waypoint implementation and better implementation for Spartan Companies, so on. As far as I know, nothing like that necessitates an entirely new engine.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Reboot, going back to 30fps, what's next Fahz? lol

I can get behind a reboot, but 30fps is trash.

And with all this talk on the engine, the current one is fine. I don't care if Halo isn't the best looking game out there, hell I wouldn't even care if graphics were Titanfall 2 tier (which runs on Source). What's important to me is that the art style gets a proper fix, the game runs smoothly, and that the engine is versatile enough to handle all the content Halo needs to succeed, which includes being able to add post-launch content like 5 did. The engine is definitely not one of the problems that is leading to a decline in Halo and the current one is perfectly useable.

 

[FATstronaut]

30fps is for goofs

FahzGoofs.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

lol Halo to me does not equate to 60fps. Sure I love it, but if we got a super awesome looking game with 30fps then I'm all for it. That's all I'm saying.

You dweebs need to calm your britches.

 

[Madness]

Keep the engine. Get some better art design, lighting or something. When seeing thinga like Halo: CEA campaign, Halo 2 Anniversary campaign, even Halo Wars 2, I think 343 needs to drop the 'look' they have been going for with Halo since 4. Someone made this post in another OT. I am trying to find the image posta I also made to show what I mean but this person did make solid points. Look at the loss of clarity, random bloom lighting making for poor sightlines, weird tints across entire campaign levels or maps ie. Green and yellow in Plaza, indigo purple on Eden that they toned down from blue, Orange on Rig etc.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Less complaining about Halo, more playing Halo. Get on, scrubs

Spoiler

I am the greatest scrub of all

 

[NOKYARD]

Take away sprint and go back to the classic art style and this totally doesn't happen.

I bet It never crossed Nokyard's mind that a picture of his map would involve Spicer. He'd be wrong.

holy shit nice

also, does this remind anyone of our fav warden(s)?

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Some sketches from post-its and notebook margins:

God, I still hate the Halo 4/5 BR. It has overly complicated geometry, which combined with silvery-gray makes it look almost more Forerunner than human. The classic BR at least looks distinctively human, if a little anachronistic.

Also, the H4/5 version has dumb fucking yellow stripes on it, because racing stripes look awesome on everything bro.

 

[Trup1aya]

Less complaining about Halo, more playing Halo. Get on, scrubs

Spoiler

I am the greatest scrub of all

I actually played today for the first time in 2.5 months... didn't have my Xbox with me during a lengthy relocation process for work.

I'm terribad... I had to move my sensitivities ALL THE WAY down to avoid windmilling.

Getting back up to speed is a demoralizing process... I'll be grinding firefight for a while it seems

 

[Fuchsdh]

Some sketches from post-its and notebook margins:

God, I still hate the Halo 4/5 BR. It has overly complicated geometry, which combined with silvery-gray makes it look almost more Forerunner than human. The classic BR at least looks distinctively human, if a little anachronistic.

Also, the H4/5 version has dumb fucking yellow stripes on it, because racing stripes look awesome on everything bro.

Yeah I prefer the "H2" BR as well. Mostly just that grip underneath the barrel. Had a nice "space age" feel to it, along with the bullpup design.

IMO, improved weapons in the 343 transition: plasma pistol, beam rifle, shotgun (at least over Reach's), FRG

Weakened: BR, sniper rifle, Shade.

 

[Trup1aya]

We're talking about it because it's what 343i would necessarily have to go through with the implementation of a new engine. Every single subroutine within the game would need to be rewritten from scratch - from the barebones fundamentals like weapon ballistics to every single nuance that the AI had or could have had, to all of the matchmaking systems and algorithms, and the entirety of Forge, or theatre, and what have you. They can't just be ported, they have to be built from the ground up, and you have to hope that they're close enough to the old engine to not create a sort of dissonance to where it doesn't feel like Halo anymore.

Which is why I said this would have been a task that began when 343 was formed - 10 years ago - 3 years before Halo Reach even shipped.

That said I don't see how forcing a dev to use an existing engine to build a game in a genre that said engine isn't equipped for, is comparable to a developer creating an engine that is tailor fitted to their own needs.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Some sketches from post-its and notebook margins:

God, I still hate the Halo 4/5 BR. It has overly complicated geometry, which combined with silvery-gray makes it look almost more Forerunner than human. The classic BR at least looks distinctively human, if a little anachronistic.

Also, the H4/5 version has dumb fucking yellow stripes on it, because racing stripes look awesome on everything bro.

Yup... The redesign on that weapon is hideous. I think the only thing more offensive is the pistol. So many useless bumps and ridges.

Everything 343 touches becomes overdesigned and ugly imo.

 

[jem0208]

I always found the classic BR really boring.

It just looks like a very standard rifle. It wouldn't look out of place in any modern military shooters imo.

 

[Nollemaster]

Keep the engine. Get some better art design, lighting or something. When seeing thinga like Halo: CEA campaign, Halo 2 Anniversary campaign, even Halo Wars 2, I think 343 needs to drop the 'look' they have been going for with Halo since 4. Someone made this post in another OT. I am trying to find the image posta I also made to show what I mean but this person did make solid points. Look at the loss of clarity, random bloom lighting making for poor sightlines, weird tints across entire campaign levels or maps ie. Green and yellow in Plaza, indigo purple on Eden that they toned down from blue, Orange on Rig etc.

Those comparisons show that Halo 3 has aged so unbelievably well. For me personally, H3's lighting engine in combination with its crisp textures is still unrivaled today.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

I always found the classic BR really boring.

It just looks like a very standard rifle. It wouldn't look out of place in any modern military shooters imo.

For sure.

Halo's military aesthetic was never super futuristic or out of the reach of modernity. It had a grounded look, but a flare of something new and distinct. 343's designs are over designed...too angular, too many lines and details, etc. Opinions.

 

[E92 M3]

Keep the engine. Get some better art design, lighting or something. When seeing thinga like Halo: CEA campaign, Halo 2 Anniversary campaign, even Halo Wars 2, I think 343 needs to drop the 'look' they have been going for with Halo since 4. Someone made this post in another OT. I am trying to find the image posta I also made to show what I mean but this person did make solid points. Look at the loss of clarity, random bloom lighting making for poor sightlines, weird tints across entire campaign levels or maps ie. Green and yellow in Plaza, indigo purple on Eden that they toned down from blue, Orange on Rig etc.

Really dislike the art direction in H5.

 

[Fata1moose]

I didn't realize how much I missed Halo's art style until Halo Wars 2 happened and I was reminded of what Halo can look like.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Did you guys know the Banshee is a really powerful vehicle?

 

[Fata1moose]

Did you guys know the Banshee is a really powerful vehicle?

I blame Halo Reach.

 

[jem0208]

For sure.





Halo's military aesthetic was never super futuristic or out of the reach of modernity. It had a grounded look, but a flare of something new and distinct. 343's designs are over designed...too angular, too many lines and details, etc. Opinions.

Scale it down and fix the lighting and it really wouldn't look all that out of place.

Honestly, Halo's human weapon design has always been very boring. It's 550 years in the future and the only significant difference visually is a holographic ammo counter.

One of the few places Bungie actually managed to improve in after moving on from Halo is weapon design. Destiny's weapon design from an aesthetic standpoint shits all over Halo's.

I'd also argue 343's weapon design (for the most part) is far more interesting visually than classic Halos.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Scale it down and fix the lighting and it really wouldn't look all that out of place.

Honestly, Halo's human weapon design has always been very boring. It's 550 years in the future and the only significant difference visually is a holographic ammo counter.

One of the few places Bungie actually managed to improve in after moving on from Halo is weapon design. Destiny's weapon design from an aesthetic standpoint shits all over Halo's.

I'd also argue 343's weapon design (for the most part) is far more interesting visually than classic Halos.

I just like the simpler look. If that's "boring", then that's a different perspective.

I think the best Halo 5 human weapon design is the AR. Looks classic and new to me, without being "offensive."

 

[jem0208]

Actually, i take back what I said about 343's weapon design being generally better.

I think Reach had the best looking weapons, followed by 343's stuff then Bungie's old stuff.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I just like the simpler look. If that's "boring", then that's a different perspective.

Yeah, this is why I still prefer the earlier weapons with a lot of Bungie's designs. Yeah, they're guns in the 26th century, but they had a sort of futurism just from their sleekness and matte design. That got lost with subsequent iterations as the guns got more and more detailed. I'm not sure the Assault Rifle in Halo Reach needed more polygons than an entire Marine in Halo 3. I really love the design of the M45 in 4/5 and stuff like the Railgun, I just wish they stripped them down more. Overdesign is a pretty endemic problem in Halo specifically and video games generally now.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Actually, i take back what I said about 343's weapon design being generally better.

I think Reach had the best looking weapons, followed by 343's stuff then Bungie's old stuff.

Yeah, I like Reach.

On human weapons:

I think it's a little ridiculous to assume that weapons will look similar to what we have now in 500 years.

However, having them look a lot like weapons from today keeps things a little grounded, and therefore more immersive. It makes you appreciate the wacky futuristic designs even more. It's a good design decision overall.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Actually, i take back what I said about 343's weapon design being generally better.

I think Reach had the best looking weapons, followed by 343's stuff then Bungie's old stuff.

Reach was the pinnacle of Halo's art style imo. Maybe a little too gritty here and there, but overall everything looked amazing.

 

[YourExWife]

Did you guys know the Banshee is a really powerful vehicle?

Now compare your abilities to this random I'm protecting in the same game.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/MyExWlFE/video/34560304

Like, how are people this inept?



Then again, this is how I protect TCKaos, so...

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/MyExWlFE/video/34560308

 

[Finaj]

I'm curious. Who is the art director for Halo 6?

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'm curious. Who is the art director for Halo 6?

As far as we know, it's still the same as Halo 5 (Sparth).

 

[JlNX]

I'm curious. Who is the art director for Halo 6?

As far as we know, it's still the same as Halo 5 (Sparth).

The senior art director for Halo 5 was Kenneth Scott who left in early 2014 after setting up the art style and continued to have a consulting role after leaving to hold to those initial goals. The two art directors currently at 343 are Jeremy Cook the art director of Halo Wars 2. The other art director at 343 being Sparth who is one of the best concept artist in the industry, we don't know if Sparth or Jeremy Cook is the senior art director at 343 at the moment. But either one is fine by me, because they still have to work together so that means the best of both worlds.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Did you guys know the Banshee is a really powerful vehicle?

Fuck this vehicle. Instantly triggered whenever someone competent takes control of the Banshee. 343 better balance it out in Halo 6 or there will be blood.

Honestly, Halo's human weapon design has always been very boring. It's 550 years in the future and the only significant difference visually is a holographic ammo counter.

CE took a lot of influence from movies like Alien and Predator, like with the AR design, marines, Sgt. Johnson, etc.

I love in those movies how their tech seems more grounded, simple and "generic" compared to the over-designed nature of many sci fi movies/games today.

 

[Finaj]

The senior art director for Halo 5 was Kenneth Scott who left in early 2014 after setting up the art style and continued to have a consulting role after leaving to hold to those initial goals. The two art directors currently at 343 are Jeremy Cook the art director of Halo Wars 2. The other art director at 343 being Sparth who is one of the best concept artist in the industry, we don't know if Sparth or Jeremy Cook is the senior art director at 343 at the moment. But either one is fine by me, because they still have to work together so that means the best of both worlds.

I was about to say: "Sparth? But Halo 5 doesn't look remotely like anything he would make."

 

[jelly]

How futuristic can you make projectile weapons though. I think sleekness, simplicity and weight 'not really a game factor' is quite easy to expect in the future for a long time and it's an easy relation for game players. It's not really surprising laser weapons think along that line as well. I think 343 did lean too heavily in human weapons when making alien weapons, probably easier for the sandbox but it's no fun.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

CE took a lot of influence from movies like Alien and Predator, like with the AR design, marines, Sgt. Johnson, etc.

I love in those movies how their tech seems more grounded, simple and "generic" compared to the over-designed nature of many sci fi movies/games today.

It's like your an actual Halo fan or something.

 

[Trup1aya]

I feel like Bungie's human weaponry looked... appropriate..

Where is the room for advancement in projectile weaponry? Militaristic needs would prioritize durability, mobility, reliability, and a low cost to manufacture.

With that in mind, simplistic makes a ton of sense.

I dont understand the need to make these weapons look more... complex. it's still just gunpowder ejecting a piece of metal.

If i remember correctly, bungie pondered about outfitting the UNSC with "futuristic" weaponry but decided against it so that 1) there would relatable some relatable weaponry and 2) the gap in tech would allow of a practical juxtaposition of the two factions.

That said, artistically, I really don't have an issue with 343s UNSC or covey weapon designs (prometheans weapons are a different story). However, I don't understand why we are mounting optical scopes on guns designed to be used with HMDs...

Anyway, i think Halo Wars 2 art direction is really good. If like to see h6 go that route.

 

[JlNX]

I was about to say: "Sparth? But Halo 5 doesn't look remotely like anything he would make."

Oh believe me I already get annoyed enough as is that Sparth's art never gets accurately represented in-game,
if Sparth started doing it to himself I would:

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I feel like Sparth's art has translated to amazing vistas, but the industrial design looks a little bland and repetitive when more intimate.

Though perhaps that really isn't on him.


I would love for Halo 6 to reboot the art direction again... the 4/5 look really hasn't been my thing. I really hope they can hearken back to the look of 2/3, and perhaps take a look at the way Destiny utilizing colors, environments, and rendering. It has the look.

(Also, I would love to see the engine tweaked... explosions still look like thee dimensional textures, rather than actual light/fire/heat/particles)

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Bungies vistas a far better looking because they look more natural and they typically included more rendering of geometric landscapes. A lot of 343's skyboxes and landscapes are really low resolution pictures when you zoom in. Not trying to be nit picky, it's just something I've observed.